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Texans DE J.J. Watt undergoes back surgery (out for season 9/27)

Hervoyel said:
Only one thing left to do. Gotta get JJ a robot spinal column. We'll probably get him back by week 12 if he can jump enough boxes to put our team's collective minds to rest.

I'm only partially joking here. At some point (Doc) will something like this (or something beyond this) be a practical replacement for athletes with back injuries?
Click to expand...

I brought this technique up in this previous post:

CloakNNNdagger said:
As my post following his extensive bilateral sports hernia and back surgeries have reflected, I have been very guarded about his future.........not only as Superman, but as a football player. If this is indeed true, this is exactly what I was concerned about, after his cumulative major core injuries. The microdiscectomy procedure removes the initially damaged portion of a disk. Microdiscectomies are found to fail, many times after a period of relief, and back and nerve compression problems continue or return in ~25% of cases and the surgery must be repeated. The next option usually considered (if there is enough disk material that can be retained) is another microdiscectomy, which again can be therapeutic to variable extent and variable amount of time. This simply is because it has lost some of its water content which causes decreased shock absorption with uneven pressure on the compromised disk. This then tends to lead to continued structural changes and instability. ............and this is the case in an accountant or a lawyer. Now address an NFL lineman who is very tall, heavy and continually requires bending, torquing and twisting of the body against resistance, and you can imagine the additional stress the back (especially the lower back) and their disks will endure. If the second microdiscectomy fails, typically the next option given is a removal of the disc with insertion of a prosthetic disk or with a vertebral fusion.............both of these extremely long recoveries........and very likely career ending. I hope that this is not the fate of one of the NFL's greatest players.

One last thought. This could be another disk level that Watt is dealing with. When one level is compromised, it is all too common for an adjacent level to be affected concomitantly or in the future.
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The points that are important when considering this technique for lumbar disc replacement are the following:

It requires a surgical approach through the abdomen, with reported complications involving injury to the major blood vessels that bring blood to and from the legs with significant bleeding, injury to the tubes which move urine from the kidneys to the bladder (ureters), and injury to the small or large intestines. In males, ~5% impotence has been reported. Migration or displacement of the metal endplates or the central plastic core can occur with return to activity. The implant can fracture the vertebra upon insertion or the vertebra can fracture in the postoperative return to activity period. There is sparse study of these implants in athletes, and most are in athletes such as swimmers, runners and cyclists.......very few parajumpers, snowboarders, etc. There are very few examples of football players available, and these are mostly in cases of cervical discs (compared to lumbar) which are much less exposed to severe repeated traumas, especially extreme compressive trauma. One interesting finding in one of the studies is that the success was strongly correlated to the functional level that the athlete experienced in the period just preceding the need for the surgery............the more dysfunctional the athlete was at the time of the surgery, the lesser the return of level of functionality was experienced.
 
CnD do you know the Texans doctors? Are they regarded as being incompetent in your field? How do you explain their repeated failures compared to your prognoses?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I brought this technique up in this previous post:



The points that are important when considering this technique for lumbar disc replacement are the following:

It requires a surgical approach through the abdomen, with reported complications involving injury to the major blood vessels that bring blood to and from the legs with significant bleeding, injury to the tubes which move urine from the kidneys to the bladder (ureters), and injury to the small or large intestines. In males, ~5% impotence has been reported. Migration or displacement of the metal endplates or the central plastic core can occur with return to activity. The implant can fracture the vertebra upon insertion or the vertebra can fracture in the postoperative return to activity period. There is sparse study of these implants in athletes, and most are in athletes such as swimmers, runners and cyclists.......very few parajumpers, snowboarders, etc. There are very few examples of football players available, and these are mostly in cases of cervical discs (compared to lumbar) which are much less exposed to severe repeated traumas, especially extreme compressive trauma. One interesting finding in one of the studies is that the success was strongly correlated to the functional level that the athlete experienced in the period just preceding the need for the surgery............the more dysfunctional the athlete was at the time of the surgery, the lesser the return of level of functionality was experienced.
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Thanks for the information. It seems like most of what I have found about it focused mostly on the positive benefits (as you would expect) as opposed to what might go wrong but I knew if there was one place in the world I could get a straight answer on that it would be from CnD :).

I also noticed that there are tons of slightly varying designs for these things (implants) and it hardly seems like a specific design has been settled upon. It still seems pretty early for these. I saw a few designs that seemed to have a porous surface on the top and bottom that were designed to encourage bone growth into the plates. It seems like these are pretty far off but thanks for answering me nonetheless.

Where's Oscar Goldman and Dr. Wells when you really need them?
 
Hervoyel said:
Thanks for the information. It seems like most of what I have found about it focused mostly on the positive benefits (as you would expect) as opposed to what might go wrong but I knew if there was one place in the world I could get a straight answer on that it would be from CnD :).

I also noticed that there are tons of slightly varying designs for these things (implants) and it hardly seems like a specific design has been settled upon. It still seems pretty early for these. I saw a few designs that seemed to have a porous surface on the top and bottom that were designed to encourage bone growth into the plates. It seems like these are pretty far off but thanks for answering me nonetheless.

Where's Oscar Goldman and Dr. Wells when you really need them?
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One last point............these prostheses are "foreign body" devices..........carrying life-long risk of potential infection......including "seeding" infections from infections sourcing from elsewhere in the body (urinary, upper respiratory, gastro-intestinal, dental).
 
JB said:
Our season is over? If our season was dependent on one player not a QB, we didn't have a season to begin with
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All I know is results.

Our defense completly fell apart last season once JJ came out of the game in the playoffs against the Chiefs. It is amazing our defense was holding it's own even with Brian Hoyer playing really bad and JJ being far from 100%.

I know our defense has the ability help us win games without JJ but do they know that or do they have the intestinal fortitude to help us win games?

Our season is not over if our players show up and play with some purpose but based on that playoff game against the Chiefs and the results when JJ Watt was a quarter of himself against the Pats last week, I worry. Our defense was a shell of itself last week with an injured JJ playing subpar and the Pats playing a rookie third string quarterback. There never was much pressure on him.

I am hoping this team has the resolve to come back and win enough to make the playoffs and perform well when they get there. I will be optimistic they rally around the next man up mantra. At least till our next game is played and over.
 
TexansFight said:
CnD do you know the Texans doctors? Are they regarded as being incompetent in your field? How do you explain their repeated failures compared to your prognoses?
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TF, I hope that you understand that I feel that this is not an appropriate forum for such a discussion. As far as the latter part of your question...........we've all discussed the potential reasons for the player outcomes. As far as my prognoses, since I don't have direct access to these players, I try to base my conclusions and projections based on the surgical literature experience, my own experiences and common sense.....................while fortunately remaining entirely unaffected by "external distracting forces."
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
All I know is results.

Our defense completly fell apart last season once JJ came out of the game in the playoffs against the Chiefs. It is amazing our defense was holding it's own even with Brian Hoyer playing really bad and JJ being far from 100%.

I know our defense has the ability help us win games without JJ but do they know that or do they have the intestinal fortitude to help us win games?

Our season is not over if our players show up and play with some purpose but based on that playoff game against the Chiefs and the results when JJ Watt was a quarter of himself against the Pats last week, I worry. Our defense was a shell of itself last week with an injured JJ playing subpar and the Pats playing a rookie third string quarterback. There never was much pressure on him.

I am hoping this team has the resolve to come back and win enough to make the playoffs and perform well when they get there. I am optimistic they rally around the next man up mantra.
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Our defense was on the field almost the entire game due to Hoyerceptions and had to be worn out also... j/s that throwing in the towel because of the loss of one player (even a great one like JJ) is nonsense. You declared our season over because we lost JJ, and yeah it makes it tougher but we still have a minimum of 13 games to play. We're 2-1 without JJ being JJ, we'll have to survive without him
 
You declared our season over because we lost JJ, and yeah it makes it tougher but we still have a minimum of 13 games to play.
we'll have to survive without him[/QUOTE]I jumped the gun in regards to saying the season is over. Just a prisoner of the moment.

I realize our defense was tired in that playoff game against the Chiefs last year but a close game turning into a blowout took place when JJ left the field. May be just a coincidence and I hope it was.

A barely there JJ last week saw our defense sputter. May also be coincidence.

We will all know more about this team on Sunday. I hope they are motivated and play well.
 
Did NFL’s J.J. Watt Return Too Soon After Back Surgery?
https://healthstylesnetwork.com/2016/09/29/did-nfls-j-j-watt-come-back-too-soon-after-back-surgery/

David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc
My hope for @JJWatt is the disc re-injury is non-surgical & @HoustonTexans just want to give him minimal 8 weeks to get to 100%.
7:38 PM - 28 Sep 2016

[URL='https://twitter.com/ProFootballDoc']David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc
#JJWatt @houstontexans
1) Aggravation happens with early return, not re-injury.
2) Huge leap to think this is career ending or needs fusion.
9:51 PM - 27 Sep 2016

[URL='https://twitter.com/jocktodoc']Dr. Mark Adickes @jocktodoc
Texans DE .@JJWatt to be placed on IR per sources. Disc already partially removed may have further issues & adjacent discs also a concern.
9:04 PM - 27 Sep 2016 · Hunters Creek Village, TX, United S

Shawne Merriman ✔ @shawnemerriman
I said before the season JJ Watt should not have rushed it back, playing superman can shorten your career...I would know.
8:12 PM - 27 Sep 2016
[/URL]
[/URL]
 
I believe Shawne Merriman's problem was more the roid usage and the beating on his 4′ 11″ gf, Tila Tequila.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
One last point............these prostheses are "foreign body" devices..........carrying life-long risk of potential infection......including "seeding" infections from infections sourcing from elsewhere in the body (urinary, upper respiratory, gastro-intestinal, dental).
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You mean like with knee and hip replacements? Same basic idea with all the potential negative effects?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
One last point............these prostheses are "foreign body" devices..........carrying life-long risk of potential infection......including "seeding" infections from infections sourcing from elsewhere in the body (urinary, upper respiratory, gastro-intestinal, dental).
Click to expand...

About the microdiscetomy.... do they do anything to the disc to prevent additional material from oozing out? Do they stitch it up or anything, or is it already "healed" by the time they go in & simply remove the material causing pain?
 
JB said:
Our defense was on the field almost the entire game due to Hoyerceptions and had to be worn out also... j/s that throwing in the towel because of the loss of one player (even a great one like JJ) is nonsense. You declared our season over because we lost JJ, and yeah it makes it tougher but we still have a minimum of 13 games to play. We're 2-1 without JJ being JJ, we'll have to survive without him
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They were throwing some stats up on NFLN last night that really revealed the impact that J.J. has on games. His presence is truly irreplaceable. We went from having a potentially great defense to potentially having a good defense.

One of the really interesting comparisons was J.J. and Von Miller. They took stats from the point that Miller returned from his suspension (October 2013) through today, and they consisted of forcing opposing offensive 3 and outs, sacks, tipped balls, incomplete passes/INTs from the pass rush, etc. Von Miller has had 48 plays , which is impressive. Watt, however, had 96 plays!

You simply cannot reproduce that kind of impact on the game with lesser player and schemes. This entire team, all three phases, are going to have to step up their game to make up for his absence.
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
All I know is results.

Our defense completly fell apart last season once JJ came out of the game in the playoffs against the Chiefs. It is amazing our defense was holding it's own even with Brian Hoyer playing really bad and JJ being far from 100%.

I know our defense has the ability help us win games without JJ but do they know that or do they have the intestinal fortitude to help us win games?

Our season is not over if our players show up and play with some purpose but based on that playoff game against the Chiefs and the results when JJ Watt was a quarter of himself against the Pats last week, I worry. Our defense was a shell of itself last week with an injured JJ playing subpar and the Pats playing a rookie third string quarterback. There never was much pressure on him.

I am hoping this team has the resolve to come back and win enough to make the playoffs and perform well when they get there. I will be optimistic they rally around the next man up mantra. At least till our next game is played and over.
Click to expand...

What was the longest scoring drive in the Patriots' game? You make it sound like the Patriots bent us over a stump or something. It's like you're just looking at the box score & didn't see the game at all.

As far as that Chiefs game, I believe Jj was on the field when the Chiefs came out & scored right after the half. For all we know, the quit was in once O'b told the team he wasn't pulling Hoyer for the second half. They may have played their butts off going into the half thinking a change was coming. Once they found out it wasn't & Hoyer turned it over again... I can't imagine too much "want to" after that.
 
Double Barrel said:
They were throwing some stats up on NFLN last night that really revealed the impact that J.J. has on games. His presence is truly irreplaceable. We went from having a potentially great defense to potentially having a good defense.

One of the really interesting comparisons was J.J. and Von Miller. They took stats from the point that Miller returned from his suspension (October 2013) through today, and they consisted of forcing opposing offensive 3 and outs, sacks, tipped balls, incomplete passes/INTs from the pass rush, etc. Von Miller has had 48 plays , which is impressive. Watt, however, had 96 plays!

You simply cannot reproduce that kind of impact on the game with lesser player and schemes. This entire team, all three phases, are going to have to step up their game to make up for his absence.
Click to expand...
Man. Why'd you have to say that? Geez that stings.

So basically the second best defensive player in the NFL had HALF the impact of JJ Watt during the same amount of time. Not that we were ever going to make a deep playoff run but if we did, it'd be on the back of Watt. Well, now his back is shot and so too are likely any microscopic Super Bowl chances.

Get well soon, JJ.
 
Double Barrel said:
They were throwing some stats up on NFLN last night that really revealed the impact that J.J. has on games. His presence is truly irreplaceable. We went from having a potentially great defense to potentially having a good defense.

One of the really interesting comparisons was J.J. and Von Miller. They took stats from the point that Miller returned from his suspension (October 2013) through today, and they consisted of forcing opposing offensive 3 and outs, sacks, tipped balls, incomplete passes/INTs from the pass rush, etc. Von Miller has had 48 plays , which is impressive. Watt, however, had 96 plays!

You simply cannot reproduce that kind of impact on the game with lesser player and schemes. This entire team, all three phases, are going to have to step up their game to make up for his absence.
Click to expand...

Say Watt said:
Man. Why'd you have to say that? Geez that stings.

So basically the second best defensive player in the NFL had HALF the impact of JJ Watt during the same amount of time. Not that we were ever going to make a deep playoff run but if we did, it'd be on the back of Watt. Well, now his back is shot and so too are likely any microscopic Super Bowl chances.

Get well soon, JJ.
Click to expand...

Yet the Texans record with JJ Watt on the field is barely over .500, so while he may have impacted how good the defensive unit was, he was not impacting the W/L column much. Which makes sense, as he plays a nonessential position.

If Houston continues to be the worst offensive team in the league, that will be why they will fail this season. It won't be because they lost Watt. If the offense gels and improves and the defense is simply "decent".....Houston will win the division. So far O'Brien has proven to be anything but a great offensive mind, so failure this year is on him.
 
thunderkyss said:
About the microdiscetomy.... do they do anything to the disc to prevent additional material from oozing out? Do they stitch it up or anything, or is it already "healed" by the time they go in & simply remove the material causing pain?
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The outer core surgical defect is typically not sutured. Scar tissue is relied upon to affect a closure in time.
 
KarlK said:
Yet the Texans record with JJ Watt on the field is barely over .500, so while he may have impacted how good the defensive unit was, he was not impacting the W/L column much. Which makes sense, as he plays a nonessential position.

If Houston continues to be the worst offensive team in the league, that will be why they will fail this season. It won't be because they lost Watt. If the offense gels and improves and the defense is simply "decent".....Houston will win the division. So far O'Brien has proven to be anything but a great offensive mind, so failure this year is on him.
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I'd disagree on the non-essential position part. As important as QB? No. But definitely one of the most important positions on defense.

A better question would be how much farther under .500 would we have been without JJ Watt?
 
Say Watt said:
Man. Why'd you have to say that? Geez that stings.

So basically the second best defensive player in the NFL had HALF the impact of JJ Watt during the same amount of time. Not that we were ever going to make a deep playoff run but if we did, it'd be on the back of Watt. Well, now his back is shot and so too are likely any microscopic Super Bowl chances.

Get well soon, JJ.
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yep. That was their point, as well. Miller is clearly an elite defensive player and Super Bowl MVP, but Watt's impact is that much more when comparing impact stats.

KarlK said:
Yet the Texans record with JJ Watt on the field is barely over .500, so while he may have impacted how good the defensive unit was, he was not impacting the W/L column much. Which makes sense, as he plays a nonessential position.

If Houston continues to be the worst offensive team in the league, that will be why they will fail this season. It won't be because they lost Watt. If the offense gels and improves and the defense is simply "decent".....Houston will win the division. So far O'Brien has proven to be anything but a great offensive mind, so failure this year is on him.
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You say that, but consider this: In the franchise's first nine years of existence, Houston won less than 40 percent of its games and never made the playoffs. Since drafting J.J. Watt in 2011, the Texans have won three division titles and two playoff games.

Since Watt was drafted, the Texans have sacked opposing QBs on nearly 7 percent of dropbacks when he's on the field. With Watt off the field, that number drops to 4.3, and opponents' QBR improves accordingly.

i


Your "nonessential position" comment is laughably ignorant considering elite pass rushers are among the highest paid positions in the NFL.
 
Double Barrel said:
yep. That was their point, as well. Miller is clearly an elite defensive player and Super Bowl MVP, but Watt's impact is that much more when comparing impact stats.



You say that, but consider this: In the franchise's first nine years of existence, Houston won less than 40 percent of its games and never made the playoffs. Since drafting J.J. Watt in 2011, the Texans have won three division titles and two playoff games.

Since Watt was drafted, the Texans have sacked opposing QBs on nearly 7 percent of dropbacks when he's on the field. With Watt off the field, that number drops to 4.3, and opponents' QBR improves accordingly.

i


Your "nonessential position" comment is laughably ignorant considering elite pass rushers are among the highest paid positions in the NFL.
Click to expand...
 
Double Barrel said:
yep. That was their point, as well. Miller is clearly an elite defensive player and Super Bowl MVP, but Watt's impact is that much more when comparing impact stats.



You say that, but consider this: In the franchise's first nine years of existence, Houston won less than 40 percent of its games and never made the playoffs. Since drafting J.J. Watt in 2011, the Texans have won three division titles and two playoff games.

Since Watt was drafted, the Texans have sacked opposing QBs on nearly 7 percent of dropbacks when he's on the field. With Watt off the field, that number drops to 4.3, and opponents' QBR improves accordingly.

i


Your "nonessential position" comment is laughably ignorant considering elite pass rushers are among the highest paid positions in the NFL.
Click to expand...


Not according to Sean Jones. Have any of you heard this crap he's been saying for the past couple weeks on 790? According to him, JJ is just this modern era's version of Howie Long , WTF? He thinks that Von Miller is the best thing since sliced bread, and that JJ is just a crappy loaf of cornbread, LOL. I don't know why the heck he has been saying all this crap. I think it might just to be controversial or whatever. When people bring up stats, he blows them off and says that stats aren't everything. However, when the stats start to stump his argument he will start using them in favor of Von Miller. Sean Jones is just a tool.:boogereater:
 
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thunderkyss said:
Is Jj having another surgery?
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I don't know, I would assume so considering the doctor from the team's partnered practice botched it and then hid it from everyone, including JJ. Now confirmed this. So, I don't blame the team as much now, but it's clear their medical situation there is FUBAR.

I can pretty much guarantee that he won't get operated on by the same doctor.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't know, I would assume so considering the doctor from the team's partnered practice botched it and then hid it from everyone, including JJ. Now confirmed this. So, I don't blame the team as much now, but it's clear their medical situation there is FUBAR.

I can pretty much guarantee that he won't get operated on by the same doctor.
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Now this is totally different from what we've been discussing.

Hard to blame the team, team doctors, or even Jj for that matter. Unless they did follow up xras & scans which I would think they'd do, considering the investment they have in Jj & how much we're depending on him. But I don't believe they do.

Anyway. I do appreciate you sharing what you do when you do.
 
thunderkyss said:
Now this is totally different from what we've been discussing.

Hard to blame the team, team doctors, or even Jj for that matter. Unless they did follow up xras & scans which I would think they'd do, considering the investment they have in Jj & how much we're depending on him. But I don't believe they do.

Anyway. I do appreciate you sharing what you do when you do.
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Same question I had. It's the practice that the team uses as their docs. So, this is the group that would be doing the verifying for them if a player was having an operation done by another, outside doctor. My understanding is that it's the one doctor that screwed up and told virtually no one.
 
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TexansSeminole said:
Same question I had. It's the practice that the team uses as their docs. So, this is the group that would be doing the verifying for them if a player was having an operation done by another, outside doctor. My understanding is that it's the one doctor that screwed up and told virtually no one.
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A doctor covering their ass isn't totally unknown... happens all the time even for non millionaire's
 
J.J. Watt's dad was worried that son's injury would be 'relatively permanent'
J.J. Watt's dad reveals that his son's injury might've been worse than we thought

The fact that Watt made it back for the opener is almost a miracle, because apparently, Watt's offseason was a lot more painful than anyone thought.

During an interview during the offseason, J.J. Watt's dad, John, told Graham Bensinger that a month after J.J.'s first offseason surgery -- he had two -- John was starting to feel that J.J.'s injury might be permanent.
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link
 
TexansSeminole said:
I probably shouldn't be sharing it, but it's so f'd up, almost feel obliged.
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TS perhaps you should PM Infantrycak to see if you are skating close to legal action. I do appreciate your info but Doc wisely refused to give his opinion on the medical staff. Be careful my friend.
 
False Start said:
Not according to Sean Jones. Have any of you heard this crap he's been saying for the past couple weeks on 790? According to him, JJ is just this modern era's version of Howie Long , WTF? He thinks that Von Miller is the best thing since sliced bread, and that JJ is just a crappy loaf of cornbread, LOL. I don't know why the heck he has been saying all this crap. I think it might just to be controversial or whatever. When people bring up stats, he blows them off and says that stats aren't everything. However, when the stats start to stump his argument he will start using them in favor of Von Miller. Sean Jones it's just such a tool.:boogereater:
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Honestly, I think Sean Jones is kind of racist. Just look at his bull **** comparison. Obviously, JJ can only compare to a white counterpart in Howie Long and doesn't even belong in the conversation with Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor. Have no idea why so many sports radio stations employ ass hats like Sean Jones.
 
JB said:
J.J. Watt's dad was worried that son's injury would be 'relatively permanent'
J.J. Watt's dad reveals that his son's injury might've been worse than we thought



link
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You might remember when his initial comment about possible retirement came out, I posted that I believed that it was no coincident, and that it sourced from his feeling of vulnerability and not being sure he could come back from his back and sports hernia injuries. Most here believed that he meant referring to several years down the line, especially because he quickly revised his statement to say he didn't mean now but actually ~3 years down the line.

This article solidly affirms my belief.
 
Texans' J.J. Watt has back surgery, will miss remainder of season
John McClain | September 29, 2016

As expected, Texans defensive end J.J. Watt underwent surgery to repair a herniated disk in his back and will be lost for the season.

Watt, a three-time winner of the NFL Defensive Player of the Year Award, was placed on injured reserve Wednesday. He saw a specialist and elected to have the surgery Thursday, according to people familiar with his situation.

Under league rules, Watt could play in eight weeks, but this time, the Texans don't want to take any chances with their most valuable player, so he's out for the season.

Watt had surgery on the same disk in late July, according to a person close to Watt. He began feeling pain in his back more than a week ago and wasn't sure what caused it. The pain worsened, and tests showed he had re-injured the same disk.

After his first operation, doctors told Watt and the Texans that if everything went well and there were no setbacks, he should be able to play in eight weeks. He returned to practice in seven weeks and played in the season-opening victory over Chicago.

Watt played well in the second game, a victory over Kansas City in which he had 1 ½ sacks and a fumble recovery. Watt had two tackles in the loss to New England and began feeling pain in the same area of his back. Tests showed the problem was the same disk, and Watt and team doctors determined that another surgery was the best course of action.

*******************************************************************

If they are performing only another microdiscectomy, his back pain will not be affected...............microdiscectomy, relieves referred pain or weakness in the buttock and leg.........not back pain. I would be curious to find out if they perform the lesser microdiscectomy and risk little change and even weaker disc cushioning with higher risk for re-injury...............or take the more major surgical approach and risk a lesser chance of returning at all. Again, another microdiscectomy is not a surgery that will address the recent acute symptoms reported as the indication for performing this surgery.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
If they are performing only another microdiscectomy, his back pain will not be affected...............microdiscectomy, relieves pain or weakness in the buttock and leg.........not back pain. I would be curious to find out if they perform the lesser microdiscectomy and risk little change and even weaker disc cushioning with higher risk for re-injury...............or take the more major surgical approach and risk a lesser chance of returning at all. Again, another microdiscectomy is not a surgery that will address the recent acute symptoms reported as the indication for performing this surgery.
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Thank you, Doc. In your professional opinion do you think that illegally obtained steroids might hasten Watt's recovery for the 2017 season? :thinking:
 
lol @ some of the people in this thread not realizing just how much impact JJ Watt has had on this team and this defense during his tenure here. I have never seen anyone have the type of impact this guy has had and I've never noticed anyone have so many individual plays that have DIRECTLY led to wins for this team. From TFLs to sacks to forced fumbles to hurries which lead to bad decisions by their QB to tipped balls and everything else. I've seen great defensive players but only a few that have explicit, obvious impact on game after game after game. When you lose arguably the best defensive player ever, it's going to matter. A lot.

Hoping and praying that he can even come back to be 75% of what he was, but I have my doubts. It's how things usually shake out for us. Cushing and Watt. Two HOF careers derailed due to injuries. Really sad.
 
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 10h10 hours ago


The #Texans knew JJ Watt was done for 2016. Surgery was their best choice for recovery, rather than rehab/rest. No concerns for 2017.
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Ninety percent of lumbar disc problems can originally be treated successfully by adequate rest and rehab instituted in a timely fashion. This, along with early attention to his groin/sports hernia injuries, would have been the approach that would have likely allowed JJ the best chance to return intact and long-term. Allowing him to "play through" these injuries was short-sighted (everyone, including JJ, the medical staff, the training staff and the coaching staff were aware of these injuries early on), in that it may have allowed him to eek out a couple of extra games in a season that was going down the tubes anyway, in exchange for an indeterminate long-term future.

[And again, I have to read "No concerns for 2017" with a very jaded eye. ~5% of regular patients experience a recurrence within a 3 month period. After a 2nd microdiscectomy, recurrence is 20-25%. In an NFL player of JJ's size and player position, one requiring repeated strong torquing of the lumbar spine area, a higher rate of unsuccessful outcome would be expected............e.g., Tiger Woods (golf is a back torquing sport) is still experiencing severe back problems after his second microdiscectomy]
 
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Hervoyel said:
The last thing we need is for JJ to come up "pregnant" like Cushing did.
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Does the NFL prohibit players from using medically proscribed steroids? If so, and if steroids would actually help JJ's recovery, perhaps he could retire from football, get the best available medical care, and then, once recovered, if he then wanted to, unretire. Actually, I don't see how the NFL can over rule the decisions of doctors and deny players the best available medical care.
 
EVOLVIST said:
Thank you, Doc. In your professional opinion do you think that illegally obtained steroids might hasten Watt's recovery for the 2017 season? :thinking:
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Number19 said:
Does the NFL prohibit players from using medically proscribed steroids? If so, and if steroids would actually help JJ's recovery, perhaps he could retire from football, get the best available medical care, and then, once recovered, if he then wanted to, unretire. Actually, I don't see how the NFL can over rule the decisions of doctors and deny players the best available medical care.
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In the late 1970's the nuclear material of the vertebral disc was found to be antigenic (a target inducing an immune system response) and capable of producing an in vitro (essentially in test tube) autoimmune reaction where the body's own immune system attacks its own tissue (the disc)....... It was theorized that a chemical irritation might explain radicular referred pain to the buttocks and leg pain in the absence of a more mechanical anatomic-based stressor to explain it.

A potent inflammatory mediator was also demonstrated to be released by discs following injury. The anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive effects of glucocorticoids (such as dxamethasone)are largely secondary to their classic anti-inflammatory inhibition of the immune responses of lymphocytes, macrophages, and fibroblasts. Whereas NSAIDs principally inhibit prostaglandin (another inflammatory substance released in general tissue trauma) synthesis, corticosteroids (such as prednisone) were found to interfere early in the inflammatory cascade by inhibiting the discovered inflammatory mediator. However, studies trying to demonstrate improved outcomes have been mixed and conclusions elusive.

If you are referring to illegal anabolic steroid use during recovery from a microdiscectomy, contrary to what most athletes believe, anabolic steroids have no healing power whatsoever. Their only medical uses are in cases of delayed sexual maturation in males, certain neurological diseases where there is muscle wasting, and to suppress estrogen activity in some forms of cancer of female organs.
 
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Hey, Doc. I was just screwing around. I didn't mean to cause a stink. Maybe I chose the wrong emoticon to go along with my deadpan sense of humor.

I would never insinuate that you would condone any substance illegally obtained (unless it was those tea leaves that you prescribed for my "glaucoma"). :redtowel:

Again, KIDDING!!!! :stooges:
 
To no avail: J.J. Watt may have rushed his return
By Jerome Solomon

September 29, 2016 Updated: September 29, 2016 7:19pm
A miserable night in Foxboro, Mass., little did we know, was about to become miserabler.

(According to dictionaries, miserabler isn't a word, but in Houston, Texas, where professional football is king and the Texans are the most popular team, miserabler is a word. It is a real emotion, and too often fitting.)

Midway through the third quarter Thursday night, the Patriots, sitting at the 1-yard line, were a single whack away from driving home the final nail in the Texans' coffin.

OK, the Astros were dead on arrival, but Yogi told us that it's not over until …

Anyway, the Patriots pulled one of the dumbest moves in football. They chose not to block the best defensive player in the NFL.

Untouched, Watt stumbled anyway, and went to his knees.

He got up, because Watt isn't one to stay down long, and made his way toward LeGarrette Blount, the ball carrier.

The play ended quickly. Blount's forward progress stalled well before Watt got close. Yet once he arrived on the scene, Watt reached in and tried to snatch the ball out of Blount's hand.

"To no avail," CBS announcer Jim Nantz said.


What an accurate description.

It was to no avail.

Three plays later, the Patriots let Watt, a three-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year, run free again.

That time, Watt never got anywhere near Blount, who plunged into the end zone for a touchdown.

Interesting word, avail. And not because there is a Vail in Colorado.

Merriam-Webster says vail can be used as a transitive verb meaning: to produce or result in a benefit or advantage.

So "to no avail" means said action did not produce or result in a benefit or an advantage.

The aforementioned play in which Watt tried to wrestle the ball away from Blount, though it would not have been ruled a fumble, will likely go down as the last statistic for Watt from the 2016 season.

He was credited, generously I might add, with an assisted tackle on the play, one of his two assists on the night.

Otherwise, he had no solo tackles, no sacks. Not one "Oh my goodness!" play for which he has become known.

It was not even close to a Watt-like performance.

One could say Watt playing at all this season has been to no avail.

I am one.

The Texans announced Wednesday that due to reinjuring his back, Watt has been placed on the injured reserve list. He probably won't (and shouldn't) return this season.

Watt had surgery on a herniated disc in July and missed the Texans' entire preseason.

He came back earlier than the projections. For no good reason.

He returned in time for a couple practices before the first regular season game, then played almost the entire game as if he hadn't missed any time at all.

The Texans beat Chicago that week, and Kansas City the next.

Watt wasn't much of a factor against the Bears. He made more of a dent against the Chiefs, but neither game was won or lost because of his play.

As for last Thursday's trip to New England, the Texans were going to be undressed by the genius of Bill Belichick whether Watt was on the field or in a foreign locale doing some butt-naked tanning with suspended Patriots quarterback Tom Brady.

He looked awful. Human.

In other words, his showing up was to no avail.

"J.J. did everything, absolutely everything, he could do to get back on the field after surgery this summer," Texans coach Bill O'Brien said Wednesday. "He followed his doctors' orders. He played it smart. He passed every test before being cleared to play. He felt good in the Kansas City game. He felt like he was starting to play like himself again. I have no idea when his back injury recurred."

That is the essence of the NFL, where healthy is a state of mind, not body.

It is all about getting back on the field; being healthy is secondary.

O'Brien didn't say Watt did "everything, absolutely everything" to get back to 100 percent health. He talked about his return to action.

Watt's mind was healthy and ready. Apparently his body wasn't.

Who is to blame?

It doesn't really matter whether Watt forced his way back because he is so accustomed to being superhuman, or team doctors allowed a little more leeway than they should have or team brass were less cautious than they should have been.

Maybe Watt was absolutely 100 percent and his body was going to break down again regardless of when he returned.

The only thing we know for sure is his coming back so soon was to no avail.
 
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