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Should the Texans pursue RGIII in the offseason?

Tolar's Ghost

Tolar's Ghost

Waterboy
Ok, you knew it was bound to come up here. So I thought I'd give it a shot.

Smith seems - OK, is - draft-challenged. So if they have to give up a pick or two (although not a 1 or 2), why not?
 
It doesn't seem like a long time ago when somebody wrote an article how the Texans needed to trade up and draft Robert Griffin III just to keep up with the Colts for drafting Andrew Luck. It would probably be worth a re-read if I could locate it again. We drafted very low in the first round that year and took Whitney Mercilus. Not sure how we would have been able to trade up to the second overall pick.
 
I'd imagine any quarterback with potential will be linked to the Texans. We should pursue all options this off-season, including Sam Bradford if the Rams part ways with him. Robert Griffin III is a no-brainer for the Texans to at least seriously consider if he becomes available.
 
markn said:
...Under BOB, no chance.
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But isn't the immortal Thaddeus Lewis much more of a scrambling QB than the stand-in-the-pocket type?

If so, that means OB isn't wedded to any one style of play at the position, right?

(And if he is wedded to one style of play, that strikes me as pretty self-defeating.)
 
I initially thought, "uh, no".

After reading the article, he would cost just $3.4M for one year. Going into the season with Mallett and RGIII might turn out to be the best pair of QBs the Texans have gone into a season with in years - maybe ever.

That would allow more time for O'Brien to get comfortable with Savage who could remain QB 3.

I think the Texans should seriously consider it.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
But isn't the immortal Thaddeus Lewis much more of a scrambling QB than the stand-in-the-pocket type?

If so, that means OB isn't wedded to any one style of play, right?
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OB has said that the system is the system and that any "type" of QB can find a way to fit into it as long as he understands it and he's smart: short, tall, strong armed, not-so-strong armed, whatever. He didn't really say "conventional pocket passer" vs. "one-read college style player", though.

OB did say there are "twelve qualities" or characteristics (or something like that) that you need to be successful and when you're looking for a QB, you're looking for someone who has as many of those qualities as possible.

I think RGIII is an intelligent guy but I don't think he's had enough experience with properly reading defenses and I don't think he'd be able to make this offense work, at least not immediately. I think it would take him some time to grow into it and I think his first post-Redskins contract is going to be too large to be able to devote that sort of development time to him.

So I don't think he's a fit here.

With that said, I wanted him really bad in Kubiak's offense. I think Kubiak could have figured out a way to make our old offense work around him even better than the Shanahans did in Washington.
 
1388777714000-bill-o-brien.jpg
 
Pancakes said:
:mcclain:

YES! He is the greatest QB ever, he is just in a bad situation. Bring him here and it's and instant Superbowl
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Really though, I would want no part of this kid. IMO he's overrated, injury prone, and has a cry baby attitude. This past episode with him throwing his team mates under the bus, just made me dislike him even more. Do not want.
 
Having already had several knee injuries of which the last one included multiple structures besides the ACL because of how he was allowed to play on it.........then bringing him back much sooner than he should have been.........has left him no longer being able to be a running QB (his greatest asset) with very questionable decision making skills.........another player one step away from the next injury. Someone is going to bite into the apple and puke up the worm.......let it be someone else.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
Little hard on him aren't you?
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If you think that is hard on him, you should have heard Steve Young and Ray Lewis talk about him

Poor work ethic, NO leadership, self entitled, to name a few




I think Lewis called him a mama's boy :kitten:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Having already had several knee injuries of which the last one included multiple structures besides the ACL because of how he was allowed to play on it.........then bringing him back much sooner than he should have been.........has left him no longer being able to be a running QB (his greatest asset) with very questionable decision making skills.........another player one step away from the next injury. Someone is going to bite into the apple and puke up the worm.......let it be someone else.
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JB said:
If you think that is hard on him, you should have heard Steve Young and Ray Lewis talk about him

Poor work ethic, NO leadership, self entitled, to name a few




I think Lewis called him a mama's boy :kitten:
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All right, all right. Thumbs down.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
But isn't the immortal Thaddeus Lewis much more of a scrambling QB than the stand-in-the-pocket type?

If so, that means OB isn't wedded to any one style of play at the position, right?

(And if he is wedded to one style of play, that strikes me as pretty self-defeating.)
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The same Thaddeus Lewis who ran for negative yards during his college career and has a whopping 55 yards rushing as a pro? You must be confused because he's been a pocket QB his entire career.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Having already had several knee injuries of which the last one included multiple structures besides the ACL because of how he was allowed to play on it.........then bringing him back much sooner than he should have been.........has left him no longer being able to be a running QB (his greatest asset) with very questionable decision making skills.........another player one step away from the next injury. Someone is going to bite into the apple and puke up the worm.......let it be someone else.
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This is where I'm at with RG3.

Plus he needs major work at reading defenses.

RG3 has to reinvent himself as a QB. He used to be able to make plays with his feet if his 1st read wasn't there. He cant do that anymore and needs to change his game. I'm not sure that his ego will allow him to change even if his body were to hold up.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
Good. A voice of reason!
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Lol, I love Bulls on Parade. I love his posts. He's the most optimistic Texans fan I can think of on this board and for that he is very much appreciated.

However, your "voice of reason" would start a 'Texans playoff chances' thread if we were 0-11, basing the his hope that maybe, somehow, we end up in the NFC South and take the division before season's end.

I like RGIII as well. I hate what Shanahan did to him in that playoff game. But.....no. Why waste our time? I've read on this board some links about today's RGIII and how he is so bad you can't even rate the Washington offense due to his horrible decisions and play in general.

You wanted to know what TexasTalk thought. Sounds like a "Hell no" and I couldn't agree more.
 
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He did win the lottery by collecting most of his contract and leaving Baylor Baptist with a hot blond. He could walk away today and live better than most of us football junkies.
 
JB said:
If you think that is hard on him, you should have heard Steve Young and Ray Lewis talk about him

Poor work ethic, NO leadership, self entitled, to name a few




I think Lewis called him a mama's boy :kitten:
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Does anybody in HOUSTON really care about his opinion after he stuck us for his retirement bonus?
 
I like the idea of Robert Griffin III if he's readily available going into the 2015 NFL Draft. It sure sounds like his days in Washington are over if Jay Gruden has his way. Their owner Daniel Snyder is the one who has to sign off on that long-term decision to let him go, which would still come as a surprise to me.

And if that giant hurdle is leaped and he actually becomes available, health issues aside, and I'm just going to assume he'll be the healthiest he's been since his standout rookie season, it will only be three years removed since he was the second overall pick in the draft. I think he'd definitely be worth a gamble for a quarterback needy team if nothing else. Especially if we're not in position to draft any of the top three talented quarterbacks in the draft: Mariota, Winston and Hundley. From a pure football standpoint, which is why I mention Jameis Winston (I have no respect for that guy), I would consider Hundley as the cut off. If we can't land somebody like him in the first round then I'm on board looking at the free agent market or potential trades.

Again, I'm not sure why Robert Griffin III gets a bad wrap just because he's still not 100 % healthy and has a habit of speaking the truth in post-game interviews. Is he throwing his teammates underneath the bus when he mentions how Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers are in good situations that he's trying to also position himself to be in? RGiII just wants to win and compete for Super Bowls. People misinterpret his struggling play with a bad attitude. Allow the man another off-season to become healthy again and he's going to be a nice surprise for a new organization in 2015.

How confident are you guys in simply bringing back the same three quarterbacks we had on our depth chart during the last game? Are you really ready to just hand Ryan Mallett the starting job for 2015 and beyond based on a couple of starts? Would you not bring in somebody like a Robert Griffin III to compete next season? Is Ryan Fitzpatrick going to be back? There are a lot of questions to answer.

We have to see how these final five games play out. Who knows, what if Ryan Fitzpatrick plays well and the team ends the season with a five-game winning streak and 10-6 record? And they sneak into that final wild-card spot? Unlikely maybe but I think it's too soon to be talking about next season. We probably won't be eliminated from playoff contention until December 14 when we play at Indianapolis. I expect the Texans to beat the Titans and Jaguars these next two games to reach 7-6.
 
Don't think it was Ray Lewis that stuck Houston for their retirement - that was Ed Reed.


To those of you that think RGIII is the answer - have you not seen him play?

While he was fantastic in college, he has not been the same since the first knee injury. He does not put in the time to study, he is NOT a leader, he can not read defenses, has NO pocket awareness. And he has NO Mike Evans to catch his poorly thrown balls and make him look good.

Fitzpatrick is better than he is and that is not saying much.
 
No. Not with his health issues, and not with our current coach. I agree with the idea that a healthy Griffin with GKI could have worked, but neither is the case any more.

Thanks,

HJLXXII
 
Grams said:
To those of you that think RGIII is the answer - have you not seen him play?

While he was fantastic in college, he has not been the same since the first knee injury. He does not put in the time to study, he is NOT a leader, he can not read defenses, has NO pocket awareness. And he has NO Mike Evans to catch his poorly thrown balls and make him look good.

Fitzpatrick is better than he is and that is not saying much.
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To be fair we have seen him play when he was once healthy. 2012 doesn't seem like that long ago. He had an amazing rookie season: 3200 passing yards, 20 passing TDs, only 5 INTs, with another 815 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs. That same rookie season he also had the Redskins with a 14-0 playoff lead over the Seattle Seahawks prior to getting hurt.

People are assuming he's never going to be fully healthy again. If that's the case he may as well retire right now and the kid is only 24 years old as I type this. I think it's silly to write him off like people foolishly do. He may not come to Houston but he'll probably be starting for a new team in 2015. Any team who takes a chance on RGIII this off-season will likely be banking on him being fully healthy and playing like he did as a rookie. To say it's impossible is ridiculous. I've seen crazier things happen in sports. As far as the system he has to play in I think his talent and health have to come together as one again. The rest will take care of itself.
 
Grams said:
Don't think it was Ray Lewis that stuck Houston for their retirement - that was Ed Reed.
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Forget it, he's rolling.

I think the truth is somewhere between Griffin being the answer and Griffin being done. He has tools. But not the tools he had entering the league. He needs to sit behind a vet for a year or two, get healthy, and soak in the knowledge. Denver would be good landing spot for Griffin. Houston needs someone that can win sooner than later.
 
JB said:
If you think that is hard on him, you should have heard Steve Young and Ray Lewis talk about him
Poor work ethic, NO leadership, self entitled, to name a few
I think Lewis called him a mama's boy :kitten:
Click to expand...
i think it's silly when people use that as an argument against a player who has suffered some unfortunate injuries over the past few years. He lit the NFL on fire as a rookie. His talent was never an issue when he was healthy and a dynamic playmaker with his legs and arm. I've heard some of the harsh comments Steve Young has made about Robert Griffin III but funny how they have all come after he's gotten hurt. Young actually praised him in 2012 when he was sensational to watch as a rookie. He always mentioned the fact that he had to improve as a pocket passer. The same can be said for a lot of young quarterbacks.

Ryan Mallett just suffered an unfortunate season-ending injury and he's a couple years older than Robert Griffin III. Not as severe an injury but yet we're ready to hand him the starting job in 2015 based on a couple of promising starts? How about a guy who has put together one amazing full season and brief playoff appearance. I'd rather see Ryan Mallett earn the starting job next season and provide as much competition as possible. I do believe a healthy Robert Griffin III can make it a tough choice for Bill O'Brien if he's given that opportunity. Or do we expect Ryan Fitzpatrick or Tom Savage to lead us back to the playoffs? Fitzpatrick has that opportunity right now if he can help us win these final five games and we get some help from other teams.

It's easy to say a player sucks when they're hurt. I've seen some of the same people bashing Robert Griffin III on this very thread, also say negative comments about Jadeveon Clowney. But when Clowney is kicking ass in 2015 and dominating like Lawrence Taylor in his prime those same nay sayers will probably be praising him.

I believe every good general manager considers every option. Maybe this is why the Houston Texans haven't been consistently good throughout their history since 2002. We make every worst decision imaginable. Especially when it comes to quarterbacks. It's not hard to win a Super Bowl or two if you bring in the right kind of quarterback. We had a chance to draft Super Bowl winning and franchise caliber quarterbacks, basically future Hall of Fame quarterbacks like Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers in past drafts, for example, but we trusted the wrong type of quarterbacks instead. We could have brought in an all-time great free agent like Peyton Manning one off-season not too long ago when he had Houston at the top of his wish list and we didn't even swing for the fences and attempt to talk to his agent. According to Bob McNair we were happy with Matt Schaub at the time who was also coming off injury.

All I'm merely suggesting at this point is to bring in the second overall pick from a couple drafts ago, a player who is 24 years old, if the opportunity is there. Just to compete for the starting job going into training camp. That seems harmless enough if he can be had for the right price. I don't believe there will be a lot of teams willing to offer much more than a third or fourth-round pick for him. The type of draft picks the Texans constantly blow to begin with. We still have to re-sign Ryan Mallett. He's a free agent to be. Who knows what will happen this off-season? The problem with the Texans is Rick Smith seems to be one of those general manager who's not seeing the bigger picture. He's certainly not a big risk taker. He seems content to just please Bob McNair and have job security despite so many frustrating seasons. He'd have been fired by now if not for J.J. Watt and Arian Foster. The two best players he has brought in during his tenure.
 
Lucky said:
Forget it, he's rolling.

I think the truth is somewhere between Griffin being the answer and Griffin being done. He has tools. But not the tools he had entering the league. He needs to sit behind a vet for a year or two, get healthy, and soak in the knowledge. Denver would be good landing spot for Griffin. Houston needs someone that can win sooner than later.
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We can go deep into the playoffs next year with a healthy Ryan Mallett or Robert Griffin III. Assuming Watt, Clowney and Cushing all stay healthy and lead what I believe can become the best defense in the league. I'm not picky. I'd rather have both on our roster in case one of them gets hurt. I don't want to patiently wait for Tom Savage to develop in another two or three, maybe even four years. Ryan Fitzpatrick is too old to think long term about. In today's league you need two reliable quarterbacks.

It's funny how some of the teams being mentioned as a great landing spot for RGIII right now are the Texans (for obvious reasons) but also the Cowboys, Eagles, Broncos and even the Saints. Teams that already have good quarterbacks but would see him more as good insurance in case their aging quarterbacks get hurt. If he came to Houston he'd be able to compete for the starting job and not instantly a backup behind an all pro caliber quarterback. I've seen Mark freakin' Sanchez, aka Mr. butt fumble resurrect his career this season. I thought he was absolutely horrible a few seasons ago. It's not an exact science to just assume when a quarterback is done or when a quarterback still has a lot to offer. Especially one who is young. It's not like we're talking about another Ryan Fitzpatrick or somebody who we already know what we are getting.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
To be fair we have seen him play when he was once healthy. 2012 doesn't seem like that long ago. He had an amazing rookie season: 3200 passing yards, 20 passing TDs, only 5 INTs, with another 815 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs. That same rookie season he also had the Redskins with a 14-0 playoff lead over the Seattle Seahawks prior to getting hurt.
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I always see people bring up his rookie year when defending him. I don't really see it as a defense. It's more of an indictment to be honest because it unknowingly shows how he was never really more than a gadget player. As soon as he was forced to turn into a traditional pocket passer his play fell off a cliff. I'll explain.

In 2012, Shanahan was basically running Baylor's offense. He met with Art Briles over the summer and installed some of his offense in an effort to help Griffin transition to a pro offense and to also take advantage of his world class athleticism. Who could blame him right? That seems pretty proactive and showed how he was not going to shoehorn Griffin into his offense but let him be who he is. Pretty much everything they did that year was predicated on the zone read and the threat of RG3's legs. He could either run to open field or the defense had to bring guys off coverage to contain him and he had easy reads down the field because of it.

However, this was with a healthy RG3. After his injury the team backed off on the QB runs because of his health. The offense stagnated because now it relied entirely on his arm and not his legs. Something he was not used to and had never done before. He had always relied on his legs to supplement his passing game. Once he recovered, RG3 requested to keep running less QB runs in an effort to stay healthy and avoid risking injury again. To me, I think this was a mistake because that's who he had always been and now he was going to have to completely transform his game (which is almost always a very hard proposition to undertake).

This is just my opinion, but I feel it's pretty safe to say that we've seen the best of RG3 and will never see him look that effective again. He will never be the player he once was. After the injuries it's just not possible. He has struggled immensely to transform into a pocket passer and now 2 coaches have given up on him because he apparently isn't willing to put in the work to pull it off. He also doesn't appear to be the same humble, likable guy that he was in college. Now he's all about managing his brand and putting himself in the best possible light possible. Instead of working to get better, he appears to have quit in Washington and is taking his ball home until he can get to a new team.

If he played for some team up north in college I truly believe we aren't having this conversation. But because he's a local kid a bunch of people have it in their mind that we should take the chance on him because we always want to take chances on local kids for some reason. It was the same with Vince, it was the same with Keenum, and it was the same with Manziel.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
How confident are you guys in simply bringing back the same three quarterbacks we had on our depth chart during the last game? Are you really ready to just hand Ryan Mallett the starting job for 2015 and beyond based on a couple of starts? Would you not bring in somebody like a Robert Griffin III to compete next season? Is Ryan Fitzpatrick going to be back? There are a lot of questions to answer.
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You don't add suck just to have different suck than you already had. His off field issues are even more profound than his game day issues...
 
Bulls on Parade said:
To be fair we have seen him play when he was once healthy. 2012 doesn't seem like that long ago. He had an amazing rookie season: 3200 passing yards, 20 passing TDs, only 5 INTs, with another 815 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs. That same rookie season he also had the Redskins with a 14-0 playoff lead over the Seattle Seahawks prior to getting hurt.

People are assuming he's never going to be fully healthy again. If that's the case he may as well retire right now and the kid is only 24 years old as I type this. I think it's silly to write him off like people foolishly do. He may not come to Houston but he'll probably be starting for a new team in 2015. Any team who takes a chance on RGIII this off-season will likely be banking on him being fully healthy and playing like he did as a rookie. To say it's impossible is ridiculous. I've seen crazier things happen in sports. As far as the system he has to play in I think his talent and health have to come together as one again. The rest will take care of itself.
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.....and 2012 Ed Reed pretty dang good also.......hardly a fact I would hang onto. In all of this discussion, seems like everyone is speaking in terms of hoping for full recovery from his ACL injuries. But after the type and the circumstances under which he sustained the injuries (and the way he was rushed back under an unreasonable time table...a second repair is expected to require a longer rehab).....and was accompanied by a lateral collateral complete tear.......and likely some additional cartilage damage, especially since it was the second ACL in 3 years on the same knee...........his prognosis to return to anywhere close to his original performance level is no more than wishful thinking.

As if this would not be enough..........most people are forgetting another extremely important factor.........his dislocated ankle suffered in mid Sept of this year...............on that same poor right lower limb. Again, this should have been at least an 8 week rehab before returning to play........but he was brought back to practice in less than 5 weeks..........and when he returned, he again played like he was not properly rehabbed on top of the gimpiness he showed from his previous injuries. For those of you who have ever sustained a significant ankle sprain, you will have probably noticed that your ankle was never truly the same......usually because the ligament(s) stretched and never fully reshortened. With an ankle dislocation, virtually all of the major stabilizing ligaments are stretched to the extreme........and seldom return to tight securing of the ankle. This last injury of RGIII's has probably left him with the stability of a house of cards.........with the appearance of far too many compensatory changes to the mechanics of all of his other joints to ever allow him to return to fully "functional."

If you want a beautiful, but gutted Ferrari sitting in your garage as a show piece..........then he's your man.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
.....and 2012 Ed Reed pretty dang good also.......hardly a fact I would hang onto. In all of this discussion, seems like everyone is speaking in terms of hoping for full recovery from his ACL injuries. But after the type and the circumstances under which he sustained the injuries (and the way he was rushed back under an unreasonable time table...a second repair is expected to require a longer rehab).....and was accompanied by a lateral collateral complete tear.......and likely some additional cartilage damage, especially since it was the second ACL in 3 years on the same knee...........his prognosis to return to anywhere close to his original performance level is no more than wishful thinking.

As if this would not be enough..........most people are forgetting another extremely important factor.........his dislocated ankle suffered in mid Sept of this year...............on that same poor right lower limb. Again, this should have been at least an 8 week rehab before returning to play........but he was brought back to practice in less than 5 weeks..........and when he returned, he again played like he was not properly rehabbed on top of the gimpiness he showed from his previous injuries. For those of you who have ever sustained a significant ankle sprain, you will have probably noticed that your ankle was never truly the same......usually because the ligament(s) stretched and never fully reshortened. With an ankle dislocation, virtually all of the major stabilizing ligaments are stretched to the extreme........and seldom return to tight securing of the ankle. This last injury of RGIII's has probably left him with the stability of a house of cards.........with the appearance of far too many compensatory changes to the mechanics of all of his other joints to ever allow him to return to fully "functional."

If you want a beautiful, but gutted Ferrari sitting in your garage as a show piece..........then he's your man.
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A good Coach/GM, smart coach/GM would adhere to the above advice. A desperate coach/GM will not.
 
Texian said:
A good Coach/GM, smart coach/GM would adhere to the above advice. A desperate coach/GM will not.
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Well, do you think OB/RS are that desparate?

I don't of course, but I'm just wonderin if you do. :)
 
This organization is too stupid to pick up a quarterback that could take them super bowl. Let RG3 go to another team and get the change of scenery he needs. Let him win there so we can come back to this thread and talk about what could have been. That's what Houston football is all about.
 
cstyle42 said:
This organization is too stupid to pick up a quarterback that could take them super bowl. Let RG3 go to another team and get the change of scenery he needs. Let him win there so we can come back to this thread and talk about what could have been. That's what Houston football is all about.
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You could make the argument the Texans are football challenged, but they aren't so stupid they would pick up RGIII.
 
Marcus said:
Well, do you think OB/RS are that desparate?

I don't of course, but I'm just wonderin if you do. :)
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I don't think OB would be interested in RGIII but for different reasons. OB wants a Brady type QB and that RGIII is not. IMO that is the main reason OB would be opposed to RGIII, more so than the medicals.
 
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