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Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?
- Thread starter Wolf6151
- Start date
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Its been like that for a few yrs. No team has won a superbowl without a talent at qb since the ravens and bucs. Both of which were more than 10 yrs ago. The only way to cover holes is with the qb. Defense can get you to the playoffs,pass game win rings.
Falcons this year are a bizarre team. Matt Ryan isn't having a bad year but they're stuck in the gutter with us
A lot of the same problems that plagued Georgia (NCAA) are affecting the Falcons. Both Roddy White and Julio Jones were out with injuries. Steven Jackson hasn't been as effective as they wanted, also been out a little with injuries. Matt Ryan hasn't been bad, but when he doesn't have his two best WRs and can't effectively run the ball, it's hard for the Falcons to do much of anything. They can just zero in on covering Tony Gonzalez.
Scooter
Funky
i'm not buying the argument that only the QB matters. eli gets all the credit, but it was the giant's defensive line that won the championships by not allowing more than 20 points in either of their runs. the steelers have been to the superbowl 3 times recently, only once in those entire playoffs allowing more than 24. that one being their only loss, in the superbowl. the ravens won a couple shootouts, but managed to beat both indy and the patriots by only allowing a combined 22 points. manning's colts' two trips are the same, only twice allowing more than 17, a win and a loss.
defense and running the ball to finish games are very much alive and well, especially in the playoffs. if it was quarterbacks only, rodgers, peyton and brees would have more rings than big ben and eli.
defense and running the ball to finish games are very much alive and well, especially in the playoffs. if it was quarterbacks only, rodgers, peyton and brees would have more rings than big ben and eli.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
U don't have to buy it,but look at how those guys played in the playoffs. No one said its about the qb and dummies, but u better have a guy with elite talent/playmaker when you enter the postseason. He's gonna have to make game altering plays in the post season. Flacco was on fire in the playoffs last yr. Eli was also playing elite the yr before in the playoffs. We've seen the plays in the postseaon made by rodgers,brady,brees,and big ben.What we haven't seen is a qb handing the ball off 30 times a game. I'm not saying the run game and defense aren't important,I'm saying the top flight guys can win without those elements. In the postseason,you will play teams who can take things away.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Since you included Big Ben then yeah we have. The Steelers won the SB in 2006 (2005 season) in spite of Big Ben. They ran 28 times for 3 TDs, the D held Seattle to 10 pts and Big Ben had 9 comp., 0 TDs and 2 INTs.
I think you are underestimating the running generally. The Steelers also ran 28 times in their other win. The Giants likewise ran 28 times in their most recent win. The Ravens ran 35 times last year.
All that being said I want to see the Texans take a QB high BUT I would not want them to take Bridgewater just because he is the consensus pick. I want them to maneuver to get the guy they like best.
Scooter
Funky
you're putting ben, flacco, and eli into elite categories? look at ben and eli's numbers during their superbowl runs. eli is very pedestrian at about 270yds and a TD or 2 on average, but didnt turn the ball over and relied on his defense ... a game manager at it's finest. it would be pretty easy to argue that the steelers won in spite of ben, in XL his line read 9/21 for 123yds and 2int's. flacco did catch fire, but still needed a lot of help from ray rice and a defense that crushed brady and andrew luck.
edit: just to tack on, in the patriot's 5 superbowl appearances they've only allowed more than 21 twice during the playoffs, and 21 twice (including a loss). their playoff runs have been heavily defensive as well. shootouts like last year's ravens/broncos game are rare. it's who turns on their defense at the right time that has had the most playoff success in recent history.
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Scooter
Funky
to the question at hand, i'm still on board with matthews. if quess can replace smith (shouldnt be hard), right tackle is the only hole on offense unless keenum faceplants in these remaining games. shore up that position with a near "cant miss" for the next 10 years. who cares if it's a lower tier position, if you can add a lifer as a bookend you do it IMO.
my ideal scenario would be finishing first with teams thinking we're after the top quarterback (which we may be). trade down a spot or two for an extra pick and take matthews. then use the next two on defense - linebacker positions preferably. hit on matthews, and get at least starting quality players with the next two would alter this team drastically.
my ideal scenario would be finishing first with teams thinking we're after the top quarterback (which we may be). trade down a spot or two for an extra pick and take matthews. then use the next two on defense - linebacker positions preferably. hit on matthews, and get at least starting quality players with the next two would alter this team drastically.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The new coach may run a new scheme , besides why does everyone think Q is the answer to all questions .
bah007
Hall of Fame
If you want to see why QB is so important then just look at Indy's record the last couple of years when the only position they significantly upgraded is QB.
To win in this league you have to be strong at QB, OL, DL, and DB. Not necessarily in that order, but some combination of talent in those areas is required.
You don't have to have an elite QB, but your QB needs to be able to win you games. Your OL needs to be able to protect your QB, and open up holes for your running game when necessary. Your DL must be able to pressure the QB. Your DBs must be able to disrupt the passing game or create turnovers.
To win in this league you have to be strong at QB, OL, DL, and DB. Not necessarily in that order, but some combination of talent in those areas is required.
You don't have to have an elite QB, but your QB needs to be able to win you games. Your OL needs to be able to protect your QB, and open up holes for your running game when necessary. Your DL must be able to pressure the QB. Your DBs must be able to disrupt the passing game or create turnovers.
If Mathews is the pick we better move down. His name has him rated higher than he should be. Right now his play hasn't been dominate like a top ten OT should be.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Agree, there a couple of more athletic OTs than Matthews based on what I have watched, just this weekend alone. Kouandjio and Irving are 2 names that come to mind.
Now that we are in the drivers seat regarding the 2014 draft, my whole approach to it has changed. Teddy Bridgewater in the 1st because without a high quality QB we ain't going anywhere, best OT available in the 2nd and I'm not opposed to trading up if someone good falls into the late 1st. We've got to protect our new QB investment and improve our overall O-line. From the 3rd round on, take the best available defensive player regardless of position. There will be good players that fall in every round, it happens every year, take the best available defensive players. We have needs at every defensive spot there is, so filling them with BPA should be easy. According to CBS new prospect rankings posted 12-02-13, many previously highly ranked players have fallen at CB, OG, ILB, DT, etc...
I get that people are she'll shocked about the oline, but if we go RT in the 1st or 2nd and we don't address our pass rush with a really good player in free agency or early in the draft that will be a mistake.
Texans absolutely have to add some top end talent to that defense.
I know people don't want to hear this, but as bad as newton has been at times, RT can be addressed a little later in the draft or with a solid yet unspectacular free agent signing.
Texans absolutely have to add some top end talent to that defense.
I know people don't want to hear this, but as bad as newton has been at times, RT can be addressed a little later in the draft or with a solid yet unspectacular free agent signing.
I could get on board with this if I believed Bridgewater was worth 1-1. Give me Clowney at 1-1, then Mettenberger (Impressed me with his toughness/elite arm strength/pro ready offense) or Bortles (who has the same type arm strength/mobility skills as Bridgewater,) late in the 1st or at 2-1.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
creepy how you and i have been on the same page as of late. I believe Bridgewater is the best qb prospect, but i can see why folks might be hesistant to take him 1st overall....Especially with a Jevon Kearse like prospect in Clowney sitting right there. I like Mettenberger alot more than most on here as well so the bolded is the best case scenario in my mind...you could maybe interchange mettenberger out with Bortles or Murray & i'd be ok with that as well.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Given Clowney's talent, I can see the argument to pass on Bridgewater at #1. Teddy is the closest QB in this draft to a sure thing, but he's not a guarantee.
I'm not super high on Mettenberger for right now, but I think he has a ton of upside. I would not want him starting next year though. He would get killed. Take him in the second or late in the first and coach him up. That would mean signing a vet to compete with Keenum and letting both Schaub and Yates go while Mettenberger carries a clipboard.
I'm not super high on Mettenberger for right now, but I think he has a ton of upside. I would not want him starting next year though. He would get killed. Take him in the second or late in the first and coach him up. That would mean signing a vet to compete with Keenum and letting both Schaub and Yates go while Mettenberger carries a clipboard.
Cutler.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I think maybe he's saying Mettenberger = Cutler...
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
To me the OL needs a LG and A RT . The RT may be on the IR and depending on the new coach , little guards may have run their course .
The defense is an oddity because you have the defensive player of the year getting all the attention and nobody else can't get to the QB . A 3-4 without a beast OLB is puny .
QB is always the elephant in the room because if you possess a franchise one , your worries are much less . Nobody can cover for average/inexperienced players like a franshise QB or a monster pass rusher . The problem is , both of these positions are highly sought after and you hardly ever see them as FAs or lower round draft picks . I think an elite pass rusher comes with an athletic skill set that can be measured unlike a QB because numbers don't always translate into a great QB .
Therefore my picks
1. Clowney
2 QB
3.Yankey
aussie_texan
Veteran
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
That sucks because him and Murray really could have used the Senior Bowl to boost their stock.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
This is better than a cyber monday sale if you like one of the two .
EVOLVIST
Kid A
I think I'm right with you here. Take Clowney 1-1 - then if you can snag Mettenberger or Bortles in the 2nd, you're golden. I would take Bortles over Mettenberger, if I had my druthers (if he declares). At the worst (or maybe best) you're getting McCarron, Murray or Boyd in the 2nd.
I just see it as a win-win by not taking Bridgewater 1-1 and shooting for another possible bust in the 2nd.
bhsman
Rookie
Honestly I have no problem grabbing a guy like Mettenberger or Murray and letting them get healthy for a year (like a medical redshirt in college); I would like to see the team compete for a championship soon, but realistically it will probably take a season or two, even with how talented the team is already - in spite of injuries fogging that up.
Grabbing Clowney and a future QB, letting the (potential) new head coach ease in, etc., and perhaps even getting a top pick in 2015 wouldn't be the worst thing. Especially if Clowney won't be at 100% due to foot surgery.
Grabbing Clowney and a future QB, letting the (potential) new head coach ease in, etc., and perhaps even getting a top pick in 2015 wouldn't be the worst thing. Especially if Clowney won't be at 100% due to foot surgery.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
How about this one - how many DLmen are there in the league right now who teams would significantly downgrade (defined as there wouldn't be any real debate that it is a downgrade) their QB to get (full careers on both players)?
That involves the full equation - a team willing to move from a QB there is no argument is better than Jay Cutler to Jay Cutler to get JJ Watt.
Texian
Hall of Fame
If there were a players value chart, there is not but assume there is one. What would Peyton Manning's or Tom Brady's value be? And what would JJ Watt's value be? How far down the QB value chart would you've to go to equal JJ Watt's value?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Keep it simple - would you go from any of the current SB winning QBs down to Jay Cutler for JJ Watt?
Flacco, Eli, Big Ben, Manning, Brady, Rogers, Brees.
Really I think the more important version would be any team do it but either way.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
That's robbing Peter to pay Paul if you think a stud defensive player is a requirement to win a SB .. IMO .
NastyNate
I go kerplunk
More like an Albert Haynesworth like prospect. One hit on a Michigan running back has warped people's opinions of him. Guy takes plays off and makes poor decisions. Leave him alone.
That's probably a good comparison ....
Yeah if we go pass rusher, give me Barr. high motor guy has done us well
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I wish to repeat what I said in another thread. Trade down, pick up extra high draft choices and still get our guy. My target it Matthews or Barr, but I think we can still get them AND get extra picks because of the drooling over Clowney and Bridgewater coupled with numerous teams competing for QBs.
Imagine trading down to 2 plus our 2nd rounder while picking up Rams 12th pick so they can get Clowney. Then trading down with Minnesota and picking up their second and fourth so they can bet Bridgewater. Atlanta picks up either Barr or Matthews and we still get the other one and now we get a 12th and only move down 3 in the second to use on perhaps Manziel or a premium NT like Nix.
Comments welcome.
Imagine trading down to 2 plus our 2nd rounder while picking up Rams 12th pick so they can get Clowney. Then trading down with Minnesota and picking up their second and fourth so they can bet Bridgewater. Atlanta picks up either Barr or Matthews and we still get the other one and now we get a 12th and only move down 3 in the second to use on perhaps Manziel or a premium NT like Nix.
Comments welcome.
Trading down is something most would like to do but few find that oh so elusive trading partner that's willing
beerlover
Hall of Fame
^^^
THIS
unless you have Andrew Luck but wait, the Colts do, right after Peyton, must be rough? so Texans, we must be vigil, remain patient (not like it already doesn't seem like an eternity) get our coach then put it all together.
we must pick with quiet abandon. personally I would like it if Wade Phillips was given a one year contract to be head coach & complete his defense (worst case). I think Barr would be his choice, OLB with elite pass rush skills. I would love to know what transpired in war room last draft but we'll never know. Ogletree was there for taking, then we would not be having this discussion, but at least now we know there must be a QB change
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am definitely looking for trades but could you clarify yours a bit? First we trade down one spot to #2 giving our second or ?
so Rams can go Clowney? 3 main sources I use for reference have Rams taking Barr, Matthews and (Walters) Matthews with this note "but the Rams will almost certainly be trading out of the top three if they obtain a pick in that spot. They're likely to roll with Sam Bradford with another season, and they have no need for a defensive end, so they may once again slide down, swapping picks with a team wanting to move up for a franchise signal-caller or Jadeveon Clowney. In this case, it's the latter. "
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
With all the injuries we had on D side, I really like for the Texans to bulk more players especially front 7. I hope we can find a suitable trading partner to obtain more picks. With an extra pick(multiple picks would be better but, it all depends on a trading partner), we can use that pick for RT prospect or BPA as well. I am not really sold on QB prospects in 2014 draft to use our top pick (perhaps in later round yes but, not our top pick).
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm usually a sucker for a trade down... This year, assuming there is not the clear stud QB (I think Bridgewater may be it), I absolutely love the trade down.
In 2006, nobody wanted the 1st pick because of the amount of money attached to it. Now, it is a bargain and should hold good value for a number of teams, even if there isn't a consensus number one pick. For the Texans, the opportunity to trade down and still grab a high quality RT (or G-the dude from Baylor, for instance), also grab a very good CB, and still get a solid QB prospect or two (Murray, Metternburger, Boyd, etc...) is awfully appealing.
We are likely already set up for two or three compensatory picks between rounds 4 and 6... For those of you wanting this team blown up, a trade down would likely result in the Texans have 10 or more picks in the first 5 rounds or so... That would go a long ways to getting the heavy personnel turnover you'll are wanting.
True, and this is what I hope happens.
But do you trust Rick to make the correct picks to help rebuild the talent level the team is currently missing?
I dont, but being a Texans fan I have to hope that I'm wrong.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Rick has proven a good mirror to his coaches needs/request just hope the next coaches R more spot on & remedy for what ales
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
I am glad some of us seeing trade down may be the way to go.
dale, I completely agree with you. If we can add some more talents on this team, we will have a chance to be solid for years to come.
steelb, I think it will depends on who we hire as our new HC and his scheme. It seems like Rick may get more say in drafting players but if HC with demanding personality, he can influence Rick to pick what new HC likes I think.
dale, I completely agree with you. If we can add some more talents on this team, we will have a chance to be solid for years to come.
steelb, I think it will depends on who we hire as our new HC and his scheme. It seems like Rick may get more say in drafting players but if HC with demanding personality, he can influence Rick to pick what new HC likes I think.
BigBull
Rookie
Normally I would agree with you, but I think Brigdewater is the only qb in this draft with a chance to be a franchise type qb.
Sent from the future...
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Hard to put much faith in anyone within the organization after this unmitigated disaster. Still, it is difficult to argue with Rick's 1st round record. Other than the Amobi Okoye mistake in year one, He has been great in the first round. I would say that nobody has been better in the NFL over that span of time with their first selection (DBrown, Cushing, KJ, Watt, Hopkins)...
I also have liked his trade downs throughout the years. I think a lot of his success/failure will depend on how well he can work with and understand the new head coach's system and what he wants and needs. Regardless of how an organization designs the power structure, I think that relationship is always an undervalued aspect of the GM's ability to succeed on draft day.
So, I am optimistic... then again, I tend that direction anyway. The great thing about the trade down is the opportunity to fire more bullets at the same target.
I really agree with this post and like your optimistic views. I'm usually quite the opposite when it comes to this regime. The draft consists of more than just the 1st rd. This is where Rick has failed. Exhibit A, the 2013 draft.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I think the biggest question the Texans will have to answer is how they attack the depth at QB in the draft this year. There will be 8-10 QBs in this draft that quality NFL scouts will score high enough to be a future starter of a quality NFL team. Those mock drafts that they run through in February and March will be key. If they have Mettenburger, Boyd, Murray, Carr, Hundley, etc... rated closely together, do they consider taking a tackle, CB, DL early and then either target one of them specifically in round two... or, allow the board to fall and grab the QB left in round 2 or 3 of a group that they like... Or, do they sit back and allow the 5 or 6 teams determined to grab a QB to fulfill their need, and grab two of the guys on their list as they slide into the middle rounds?... It will be interesting. A lot of variables to work through.
Perhaps all of these QBs are flawed, but I don't recall a draft with so many potential NFL-caliber QBs... I'm torn myself. Should they simply take Bridgewater? Or, should they trade down, collect the best on their board for 4 or 5 picks and then still grab two QBs in the middle rounds that have high ceilings and let them both compete with Keenum and develop in 2014? Not sure.