Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

[76Texan]

You do understand this is the same strategy that got RGIII, Russell Wilson, & Andrew Luck into the play-offs last season don't you? How can you not be on board with this strategy?

& you make it sound like we sht canned the whole book & that's not the case. That bootleg that set Graham up..... we've run that many times in the past. The bootleg is a big part of our system, but we've basically scrapped that with Schaub under center since it appears the word around the NFL is that's the only way Schaub can hurt them. If the backside defender doesn't chase the run..... we're not going to run the bootleg......

So we put things in & take things out all the time. That's the way it is in the NFL.

The Texans started the game with two outside zone run.
The third play was a faked zone run when Keenum completed a pass to AJ.
The fourth play was another faked zone run when Keenum rolled out on the bootleg and threw the ball across his body. Graham had both hands on the ball but couldn't pull it in.

 

[thunderkyss]

But the play called for him to step up the pocket.
Watch it again. If he tried to throw the ball, it would have been batted down.

The midget? Or Schaub?


Look, I'm happy for your boy. He took a damn good shot with the opportunity given him. I think the right thing to do would be to give him another start. I'm fairly sure, damn near positive, Kubiak will do the right thing.

But this is going to be one of the things they'll talk about when they go over the film (I think they already did). Keenum knows he's got to do better in that situation & he knows, I'm sure, that he could have done better.

He's getting a pass for basically giving the game away on that play......


let it go.

 

[76Texan]

One of the plays that Keenum missed was on third and 4 with about 4:37 to go.

He failed to see Jean wide open for a first down on the hot read.
He was looking left first and missed that easy one.
That one was totally on him.

 

[Nitrofish]

Nitro, I am a Cougars fan since 1975.
I had watched plenty of Keenum.
That was not Cougars offense; it was 100% Texans offense.

When I ask you to watch more football, I'm quite serious.
It's not a knock; the last 4-5 years. I'm on football as a 70-80 hour a week job.
I don't claim that I know everything about football, but I do try to learn and watch a lot.

I will agree it was not totally Cougars playbook, but it was not the Texans either. It was a hybrid installed for Keenum. Very few of those plays were the same plays Schaub ran. Nearly every play was from the pistol formation, and while we have seen Schaub in that formation a few times, it was not for an entire game. Please do not try to convince me that the Texans run 99% of their plays from the pistol with Schaub in the game, or that those are the same routes they run from their normal formations, because it is NOT true.

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you in regards to who watches more football. I respect your opinion, but will remind you that two people can watch the same event and see two completely different things.

You are saying Keenum did not have time to throw it away, and that it would have been batted down. Even if that were true a batted pass would have been more desirable then a sack/fumble.

You do not get cute down around your own goal line, let alone with 1:41 and no timeouts left with the win on the line, and if you are not willing to admit that than we will just have to agree to disagree.

In the coaches film screen cap below, it is clear that Keenum's feet are set, there are no open receivers, and there is plenty of time and space, in a clean pocket to throw the ball away, but instead Keenum gets cute, trying too hard to be the hero in that moment and make something happen and ends up losing the game.

The Chiefs only rushed 3, and were using a LB as a spy on Keenum so he was not going to run for any yardage if he tried. You have to know the situation, and throw the ball away on 2nd and 10, not scramble around at your own goal line trying to make something happen with some of the best pass rushers in the game and a suspect offensive line. You just don't do it.

If you are saying he gets a pass because it was his first game, blaa, blaa, blaa, that is one thing, but to deny what I have said (and shown) is completely dishonest, and smacks of fan boy analysis. Perhaps you are just too close to this.

 

[76Texan]

Nitro, like I said in one of these Keenum's thread; the Texans can still run all of their normal plays from the pistol.

The only difference is where the QB lines up.

The Cougars don't run the pistol.

....

On the last play; the Chiefs rushed 3, used one to contain or spy, and one to cover the RB.

With 3 rushers, a QB should expect better protection, shouldn't he?
Why should he be in hurry to throw the ball away.
You don't do that against a 3-man pass rush.

If your line cannot handle a 3-man pass rush for 2 seconds, your team is going to lose the game.

 

[76Texan]

And I do have the All-22 film, too.
You can't just take one screen shot to come to a conclusion that the pocket was clean.
I wish there's a simulation software that allows you to go on with the play as if the QB attempt to throw the ball.

At any rate, it was not desperate time for the QB to just throw the ball away.
But that's besides the point.

 

[Nitrofish]

Nitro, like I said in one of these Keenum's thread; the Texans can still run all of their normal plays from the pistol.

The only difference is where the QB lines up.

The Cougars don't run the pistol.

....

On the last play; the Chiefs rushed 3, used one to contain or spy, and one to cover the RB.

With 3 rushers, a QB should expect better protection, shouldn't he?
Why should he be in hurry to throw the ball away.
You don't do that against a 3-man pass rush.

If your line cannot handle a 3-man pass rush for 2 seconds, your team is going to lose the game.

First it was more than 2 seconds, and the pocket was clean. You can see that in the previous image. All he had to do was throw the ball away, stop the clock and play another down.

In the following coaches film screen cap, it is just as Keenum decides to run, but had he just lofted the ball to either Tate our of the backfield, or Graham in the middle of the field, just before they made their breaks, he would have had a completion. But the proper play there was if nothing is there, throw it away.

 

[76Texan]

Again, somewhere in one of these threads, I said I would put that play squarely on Keenum if it was a quarter to a half of a second longer.

 

[Nitrofish]

And I do have the All-22 film, too.
You can't just take one screen shot to come to a conclusion that the pocket was clean.
I wish there's a simulation software that allows you to go on with the play as if the QB attempt to throw the ball.

At any rate, it was not desperate time for the QB to just throw the ball away.
But that's besides the point.

Really? If 2nd and 10, on your own 10 yard line, with 1:41 on the clock, no time outs, trailing by 1 on the road with a rookie QB at the helm is not desperate times, then nothing is. The game was on the line, it was desperation time, and it needed a calm, quick thinking experienced QB to make the right decision, and that is throw it away, not get cute on your own goal line.

 

[76Texan]

Nitro, at that time Keenum was on the retreat and he got out of the pocket within 3 seconds.

Graham was bumped hard by his defender; he can't clear it in time.

Tate never got open until late; he was being double-teamed.

Keenum cannot extend his arm to throw the ball anyway.
The RDE would have gotten to the ball.

 

[76Texan]

Really? If 2nd and 10, on your own 10 yard line, with 1:41 on the clock, no time outs, trailing by 1 on the road with a rookie QB at the helm is not desperate times, then nothing is. The game was on the line, it was desperation time, and it needed a calm, quick thinking experienced QB to make the right decision, and that is throw it away, not get cute on your own goal line.

The attempt to throw the ball is more risky as I have described above.

The option is to run toward the sideline; there was a lot of green space there as the defense was double-teaming on AJ way down the field.

 

[76Texan]

Look at the front view from the coaches film; there wasn't a chance that Keenum can even raise his arm to throw the ball away.

He would have been dead duck.

 

[Nitrofish]

Nitro, at that time Keenum was on the retreat and he got out of the pocket within 3 seconds.

Graham was bumped hard by his defender; he can't clear it in time.

Tate never got open until late; he was being double-teamed.

Keenum cannot extend his arm to throw the ball anyway.
The RDE would have gotten to the ball.

He never retreated. He dropped back, surveyed, slide left and tried to run. By then it was too late. You do not waste precious time trying to run to the sideline when you can throw it there three times faster. By your logic QB's should never throw it because there is a pass rush and it might get batted down. All of the defenders were engaged and not likely to bat anything down.

In the first image I posted, you can see nobody is within 3-5 yards of Keenum and he has plenty of room to extend his arm to throw it away bro. Come on now, you are grasping at straws to show your boy was not at fault when it is clear he was. Regardless of how long we argue this, people will believe whatever they want, regardless of evidence.

The attempt to throw the ball is more risky as I have described above.

The option is to run toward the sideline; there was a lot of green space there as the defense was double-teaming on AJ way down the field.

I disagree with you, and as I said above "By your logic QB's should never throw it because there is a pass rush and it might get batted down." You can throw to the sideline much faster than you can run there and time was precious.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Ghostform]

Lets calm down ESPN custodians. I watch 25 hours of football a day 8 days a week and i think Schaub will throw a pick six when we play the bye week and Kubiak will be forced to play Keenum against the Colts.

 

[76Texan]

He never retreated. He dropped back, surveyed, slide left and tried to run. By then it was too late. You do not waste precious time trying to run to the sideline when you can throw it there three times faster. By your logic QB's should never throw it because there is a pass rush and it might get batted down. All of the defenders were engaged and not likely to bat anything down.

In the first image I posted, you can see nobody is within 3-5 yards of Keenum and he has plenty of room to extend his arm to throw it away bro. Come on now, you are grasping at straws to show your boy was not at fault when it is clear he was. Regardless of how long we argue this, people will believe whatever they want, regardless of evidence.



I disagree with you, and as I said above "By your logic QB's should never throw it because there is a pass rush and it might get batted down." You can throw to the sideline much faster than you can run there and time was precious.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Let's take time to digest this.
I've been known to watch a play over a hundred of times, not consecutively.
That doesn't help much.

Instead, I would take time off, and rewatch it from different angles and approaches.
I can come back to the same play a few days later, a week later, a month later, in the off-season.

At this time, I see no possible way that Keenum can get the pass off unless the play calls for him to just throw the ball right away as he takes the snap, or shortly thereafter.

The route pattern was such that the QB has got to be protected up the middle. He should not have to throw the ball away against a 3-man pass rush under 2 second.

 

[76Texan]

It was not a situation where there was a blitz that calls for the QB to either go to the hot receiver in a second or a second and a half, or to throw the ball away, or to take a sack.

Like you said, it was a 3-man pass rush.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

He looked pretty dang good with Bledsoe before his injury. Don't rewrite history. He wasn't always a great HC, but he always did his best for the team, regardless of position.

Belichick was 5-11 with Bledsoe the prior season (his first season with the Patriots).


Oops, was mentioned already.

 

[Nitrofish]

I'm fairly certain this is illegal contact, or defensive holding at least, but I guess the home team is afforded some slack in most cases, but still. If the flag was thrown we most likely would not be having this discussion.

 

[Runner]

The more things change...

The last time I remember a bye week that included a lot of "self-study" by Kubiak about a position was in 2009. The position was running back. I found an old post:

As I posted and linked in another thread, Kubiak said they used the bye week to self-study. That self-study led them to the conclusion to make Chris Brown the feature back.

Is that the bye week prep you are looking for?

Ah Kubiak. What will you do four years later?

 

[HOU-TEX]

I'm fairly certain this is illegal contact, or defensive holding at least, but I guess the home team is afforded some slack in most cases, but still. If the flag was thrown we most likely would not be having this discussion.

Or if we could actually get the ball in the endzone when we had 1st and goal at the 1

 

[Vinny]

I'm fairly certain this is illegal contact, or defensive holding at least, but I guess the home team is afforded some slack in most cases, but still. If the flag was thrown we most likely would not be having this discussion.

Could be that our guy is about to cut right and leans into the DB before he pushes off. Still shots don't do a good job of telling some stories.

 

[drs23]

I have to hope this is just coach speak and not indicative of a really stupid decision.

I think that's all it is. Make 'em prepare for the unknown splitting practice time preparing for both.

Only chance we have is with #7. I fear my man Matty's toast and has been since, oh say, the ass whippin' in Foxboro last season. He won't be back next season and should be rested peacefully the remainder of this season.

And I don't even like Schaub. Was that a digg at TK? Naa, no way.

 

[thunderkyss]

Only chance we have is with #7. I fear my man Matty's toast and has been since, oh say, the ass whippin' in Foxboro last season. He won't be back next season and should be rested peacefully the remainder of this season.

It's odd that also coincides with the shell of a defense we've been staring at over that same time period. Arian & the run game & the Special teams are the only areas to truly improve since then. Special teams cleaned up the penalties.

We don't need our defense to play good enough to win, we need them to dominate to take pressure off Keenum.

 

[msbbc833]

I think that's all it is. Make 'em prepare for the unknown splitting practice time preparing for both.

Only chance we have is with #7. I fear my man Matty's toast and has been since, oh say, the ass whippin' in Foxboro last season. He won't be back next season and should be rested peacefully the remainder of this season.

And I don't even like Schaub. Was that a digg at TK? Naa, no way.

Done since Foxboro??? I knew he was done during the Bengals game
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000122348/Hall-pick-six

If you count that game, Matt has thrown a pick six in 7 of the last 8 games (counting first play against SD as a pick 6, which it essentially was). Also not surprised that the pick 6 came on a pass to the TE.

It was so nice to not have to throw these dump off 7 yd passes to our TEs with Keenum playing because he can actually extend plays.

 

[Vance87]

He was done the Vikings game...

 

[Nitrofish]

Or if we could actually get the ball in the endzone when we had 1st and goal at the 1

Yea no kidding. Watching them kick that FG was frustrating, and demoralizing, but could have been worse to go for it and fail. That would have surely energized that KC D and taken the air completely out of the Texans, so probably the right decision. Texans had several chances to win the game, they just failed to do it.

Could be that our guy is about to cut right and leans into the DB before he pushes off. Still shots don't do a good job of telling some stories.

True, but we all know on that play he was breaking left across the field as it shows in the other image, and the DB held him which is illegal contact or holding. Not trying to make excuses, the proper play IMO was to throw the ball away at that moment and live to run another play.

 

[DX-TEX]

Yea no kidding. Watching them kick that FG was frustrating, and demoralizing, but could have been worse to go for it and fail. That would have surely energized that KC D and taken the air completely out of the Texans, so probably the right decision. Texans had several chances to win the game, they just failed to do it.



True, but we all know on that play he was breaking left across the field as it shows in the other image, and the DB held him which is illegal contact or holding. Not trying to make excuses, the proper play IMO was to throw the ball away at that moment and live to run another play.

I wondered why we didn't do a QB bootleg and if Case had nothing to throw to then just run it in

 

[Nitrofish]

I wondered why we didn't do a QB bootleg and if Case had nothing to throw to then just run it in

IMO Kubiak has for the most part canned that play, because if you watch the last 4 games the Texans have played, the DE or LB is not crashing down the line on the play fake, they have been instructed to ignore that and go after the QB. You can see the DE or LB with his eyes directly on the QB, not even looking at the run action, even when the Texans were running the ball well.

It was the bread and butter of the Texans long play capability, and so teams decided to focus on stopping that play and basically dare the Texans to run it 30 or 40 times a game.

 

[paycheck71]

I wondered why we didn't do a QB bootleg and if Case had nothing to throw to then just run it in

I'm guessing it's because our running backs were beat up, and KC wouldn't have respected the run threat.

 

[EVOLVIST]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfoBxxoWQqs

Hey y'all, remember this? It seems so strange. Where we were. Where we are now. A 5 game win streak. A 5 game losing streak.

There are so many little asides and gestures in this video that it's telling of our franchise as a whole.

It just makes me think more and more that this town is due for a Cinderella story.

 

[thunderkyss]

IMO Kubiak has for the most part canned that play, because if you watch the last 4 games the Texans have played, the DE or LB is not crashing down the line on the play fake, they have been instructed to ignore that and go after the QB. You can see the DE or LB with his eyes directly on the QB, not even looking at the run action, even when the Texans were running the ball well.

It was the bread and butter of the Texans long play capability, and so teams decided to focus on stopping that play and basically dare the Texans to run it 30 or 40 times a game.

IMO, that's why the cutback lane has been so wide open & Arian has been running roughshod on just about everyone we've played over that same time. If Tate would run a little more patience, a little more awareness, & pick the right moment to hit the burst... he could be something special & we would run it 30 to 40 times a game.

 

[gafftop]

If MS starts just remember it is Kubiak's decision not Matt's.

I have always said MS is MS. Not his fault.

The fault lies with Kubiak and Smith.

Stands should be filled with signs clarifying why we the fans are upset.

Kubiak's recent actions make me feel he is tired of being soft and hopefully done with playing favorites even though he might have cost a win by sending them home when he did.

Could be McNair getting involved but I don't think so.

His recent actions should bode well for Keenum being named starter.

 

[ObsiWan]

First it was more than 2 seconds, and the pocket was clean. You can see that in the previous image. All he had to do was throw the ball away, stop the clock and play another down.

In the following coaches film screen cap, it is just as Keenum decides to run, but had he just lofted the ball to either Tate our of the backfield, or Graham in the middle of the field, just before they made their breaks, he would have had a completion. But the proper play there was if nothing is there, throw it away.

From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.

 

[EllisUnit]

From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.

If Newton could block a fly this would all be mute, he is HORRBILE, and a majority of the sacks given up appear to come from the man he is blocking. I want Harris to start in place of Newton.

 

[thunderkyss]

If MS starts just remember it is Kubiak's decision not Matt's.

I have always said MS is MS. Not his fault.

The fault lies with Kubiak and Smith.

Stands should be filled with signs clarifying why we the fans are upset.

I think Kubiak should shoulder some of the blame for the Matt Schaub injury cheering.

NObody wants to see anyone get hurt & sometimes the fans are just plain wrong. But if Kubiak would have shown some "give-a-sht" Benching Matt at the end of the Seattle game & at the end of the San Francisco game (instead of just throwing in the towel the way he did)... the crowd wouldn't have been so anxious to move on. They'd have known it was a matter of time. But Kubiak gave them no choice but to hope something forces Kubiak's hand & it was going to have to be something more drastic than giving the other team the ball.

It's classless..... I didn't appreciate it. I thumped my daughter to make her stop. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand it. & I know my wife was doing cartwheels at home.

 

[thunderkyss]

From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.

No, Nitro is on the money. He could throw a safe pass leading the TE & RB away from the coverage. He also could have thrown it over either receivers head..... uncatchable to effectively get around an intentional grounding penalty.

The 2nd worst thing that could happen there (a pick 6 would have been the worst) was to fumble it there, recovered by the other team & that's what happened. If you're honest about it, it turns an otherwise amazing first time start into something a little more mundane (considering it was his second sack fumble). & there are some here that don't want to believe Case's first start, though promising, was more mundane than amazing.

 

[thunderkyss]

If Newton could block a fly this would all be mute, he is HORRBILE, and a majority of the sacks given up appear to come from the man he is blocking. I want Harris to start in place of Newton.

There used to be people here who would complain because Mario Williams would allow a tackle... a RT to run him completely out of a play. That's exactly what happened to Houston right there. He's run completely out of the play. Only problem is that he & Keenum keep playing & Newton didn't.

That was a 3 step drop, the ball should have been gone.

Newton should play to the whistle... that's the kind of spark you'd expect a QB change such as this would provide, but he didn't. Which brings me back to lip service.

Was there a spark on this team?

This teams biggest issue since week 1 has been lack of effort. This teams issue since last year's Jags game has been lack of effort. You watch the Patriots & Packers & Vikings & Colts whip our a55es & it's because they played with more effort than we did. Shane Vareen & Steven Riddley & a bunch of LBs no more talented than our group out efforted us against the Pats, twice.

We can't score from 1st & goal from the 1, that's lack of effort on our part. DeAndre's a rookie, Case is just starting so my criticism of that failed play is more observation than anything else. But a little more effort from either player & that's 6 points.

Graham's failed opportunity.... a little more effort & that's 6 points. Defensively, if they played with the effort they had in the 2nd half, those 80+ yard TD drives are punts at the very least, turnovers with a little effort, defensive scores with the spark we needed.

Was there a spark..... yes, but nowhere near what we needed. There was a lot to overcome, I'm not saying any different. First time starter, ferocious pass rush (but KC was having protection issues of their own before the game started), Arian out early in the 1st, Ben was useless even before he got hurt, Cushing out...... Manning out. But we gave up that last sack on a 3 man rush, not because Newton sux..... I'm not saying he doesn't.... but because of lack of effort. & that's what cost us that game, & the St Louis game & the San Francisco game, & the Seattle game, & the Baltimore game.

They can say they support this QB, or that QB. They can say they've got his back, they can say he's not out there alone, or that "The fans don't want to hear us talk about it." It's what they do on the field that counts. Anything else, is lip service.

 

[Rey]

There used to be people here who would complain because Mario Williams would allow a tackle... a RT to run him completely out of a play. That's exactly what happened to Houston right there. He's run completely out of the play. Only problem is that he & Keenum keep playing & Newton didn't.

That was a 3 step drop, the ball should have been gone.

Newton should play to the whistle... that's the kind of spark you'd expect a QB change such as this would provide, but he didn't. Which brings me back to lip service.

Was there a spark on this team?
.

What makes you believe that was a three step drop and the ball was supposed to come out?

All the receivers are still running vertical. Look at where the sticks are, the time left in the game....a quick pass there doesn't make any sense if we are talking about the same play.


As far as was there a spark? Yes there was.

 

[Arky]

Case should start after the bye.

On the play in question, I think getting beat by a 3-man rush is far more egregious than the sack/strip. Pathetic by the OL. It was perhaps Keenum's biggest error of the game - he was so totally focused downfield. I'm sure he will get coached-on for these situations and be better the next time for it....

Goes without saying he did a lot more good things than bad in the game. Should his only serious mistake be hammered into everyone's consciousness? I don't think so....

 

[DX-TEX]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...e-of-urgency-4918295.php?t=09f1e36aa6cc308649

I haven't thought about it that way," he said. "In my mind, it's been the same thing every week preparing to play. Right now, we're still kind of looking back a little bit, watching cut-ups from the previous seven weeks, just still trying to get better as a team. I just need to work on being the best quarterback I can be."

Schaub, for his part, remains mum on the topic. He hasn't spoken to the media since Kubiak announced Keenum would start in Kansas City. But during the open part of practice Tuesday, Schaub was moving around without any readily apparent limitations.

Hopefully it means he knows he is done for.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Keenum was not getting help from his OL. Some interesting observations in general re. the Chiefs game. [Read from bottom to top]

Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 12m
Hali & Houston are very talented OLBs that any team would be lucky to have. Poe and Derrick Johnson on a different level.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 13m
I had equal respect for Poe, DJ, Tamba Hali, and Justin Houston going into this game. Completely different feeling after All-22 vs Texans.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 13m
Derrick Johnson has always been a special ILB. Poe takes him to a whole new level now.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 13m
Poe is already at an elite level. He's on par with Haloti Ngata at the peak of his career. Versatile and determined. Eating humble pie.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 14m
Dontari Poe and Derrick Johnson are a deadly combo. Even when Poe's not making he plays, he's making plays.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 14m
The last sack was just a basic look that had 3 linemen come after Case Keenum. Derek Newton was just beat by Hali for sack FF & FR by DJ.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 15m
2 more of the sacks came when Kansas City brought a CB blitz w/ Derrick Johnson. 1st time both came at Wade Smith, 2nd vs Brooks.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 15m
Then they lined Houston & Hali outside of Duane Brown to overload his side. Texans didn't have an answer for it.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 15m
2 of the Chiefs sacks in the 4th came w/ KC lining Hali & Houston both outside of OTs on the same side of the line. 1st overloading Newton
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 16m
Texans gave up 0 sacks in the 1st half vs KC. 1 sack in the 3rd qtr, & 4 sacks in the 4th. Chiefs got creative in 4th vs no running threat.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 16m
Duane Brown was obviously shaken up after the sack, injury. His technique wasn't crisp & struggled to get back inside after kick out.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 16m
I was asked by a few people about Duane Brown. He played well, except after the right side gave up sack then rolled up on DB's legs.
View conversation ·
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 17m
While all 5 sacks weren't Derek Newton's fault, all 5 happened w/ him in the game at RT. 0 sacks were given up by Texans w/ Harris at RT.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 17m
Still funny...to me. RT @JaysonBraddock: Derek Newton still has a kick out move that is as NFL caliber as Cotton from "King of the Hill"
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 17m
cont'd RT @JaysonBraddock: Hali crashed down on the run, Brooks runs thru the hole and doesn't pick up anyone successfully.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 18m
On a running play, Brooks pulled out & seemed loss due to Hali lining up wide of the receiver. Heard of wide 9, may have been wide 15?
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 18m
KC has a nice blend of players on their 3-4 front. Mike DeVito was troublesome for the Texans' OL against the run.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 18m
Case Keenum played well for his 1st start, but he has to polish up several issues before the Colts' game.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 19m
Keenum also "aimed" too many passes. Once again, this is overly critical due to it being his first NFL action. He has to zip, out routes.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 19m
Keenum didn't do well at recognizing blitzes & missed his "hot" reads on a few sacks. He has to help his line out vs pressure & overload.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 20m
Reason it's obvious that it should be Keenum's offense was due to his ability to keep plays alive & eyes down field...most of the time.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 20m
Keep hearing that Kubiak is conservative & doesn't try anything new. Also heard that he'd never go to "gimic" pistol, zone read, etc.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 20m
Keenum played out of pistol for the whole game. He even ran some zone read, including the DeVier Posey play.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 21m
On zone read pass to Posey, he stops play fake early, due to Posey's window closing. Veteran zone read, move. Most would finish tuck/pull
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 21m
On out route to Hopkins, Keenum aimed the pass, which led to it being placed behind him. He's being cautious. Fine game 1, changes game 2
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 22m
Biggest mistake? VS single high safety LB, passes Graham off to safety who's turned away from Graham's seam route. Would of been 75 yd TD
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 22m
Hate beating a dead horse, but Ben Tate continued to prove that he's not a zone runner. Cuts take to long for timing windows.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 23m
On the deep throw to Garrett Graham, Andre Johnson destroyed Derrick Johnson on the pick to open Graham up. Several more picks vs KC for AJ.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 28m
After studying Texans offense yesterday, I tweeted out some notes last night. I'll send a few back out now.
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[legacy_gt]

I want to see the adjustments with case. I want to see better reads by case the next time around against a blitz. off line didn't do well, coach could read the blitz's, and so with keenum.

with that said, the guy (can't remember the name) that worked with case for the combine (he also worked with romo and some other great qb's) said that case was the smartest QB he's worked with.

case is a great QB in the making. I want to beef up the off line and get some linebackers. draft a low QB too..

you don't win a championship in high school, break several NCAA records, do great in the preseason and play against the best defense in the chiefs and call it a fluke. if the Texan's can commit that Case is the man, the team can move forward and not be in limbo.

 

[eriadoc]

You know what I get from that picture? Look at Newton. He's not riding his guy out wide. Look at his feet, look at his hips. He's beat. The man should not be playing in the NFL. That is a piss poor job of blocking.

Also, no one is open. What Keenum is definitely guilty of here is waiting for something to develop. You can't do that on your own goal line. He's trying too hard.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

This is a great in-detail, honest, unbiased analysis, including multiple supporting illustrative screenshots, of the KC game and Keenum's play and Kubiak' play calling......A must read!

Posted October 24, 2013
The All-22: Texans opened the playbook for Case Keenum before Chiefs closed it back up
Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, The All-22

Kubiak may be well-served by giving Keenum another shot, whether Schaub is healthy or not. He’s shown obvious inexperience, and things will become more complicated as opposing defensive coordinators get more tape on him, but it’s pretty clear that he brings an expansiveness to an offense that has been mired in predictability for far too long.

THE REST OF THE STORY

 

[Hervoyel]

Every time we play the Chiefs I'm reminded that Charlie Casserly could have taken Derrick Johnson but instead traded back and selected Travis Johnson. Apparently he could not hear me screaming at my radio at the time.

Every time I think of that I die just a little bit on the inside.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Keenum was far from satisfied with his play Sunday (Dale Robertson).

Crunch time irks QB

Without a healthy running back in the second half - Arian Foster was out with an encore hamstring tweak, and Ben Tate tried to play with multiple broken ribs, but his four post-halftime carries were for 1, minus-1, 0 and 1 yard - the Chiefs ratcheted up pressure on Keenum until he was being buried on almost every play. Already leading the NFL in sacks, they exploited the Texans' single-dimension offense and the quarterback's inexperience with vigor, dumping him for sizable losses on three successive third downs before crushing him one last time on second-and-10, finally forcing the fumble that would be the Texans' lone turnover on the afternoon.

Kansas City was sending more rushers than the Texans had blockers, and Keenum didn't yet possess the wherewithal or acumen to adjust accordingly on the fly. However, after replaying the situations repeatedly both in his mind and on the video screen, he promised it wouldn't happen to him the same way next time, whenever that next time comes.

"The sacks were on me," he said. "But I won't make the same mistakes twice."

A road warrior in the making?

Case Keenum posted a higher quarterback rating in his first NFL road start than any Houston quarterback who preceded him. How his numbers in Kansas City compared to those posted by the city's most prominent:

Player Year Week Opp. Result Cmp. Att. Pct. Yds. TD Int. Rating

Dan Pastorini 1971 6 at Steelers L 23-16 17 3450.0 191 0 1 54.9

Warren Moon 1984 1 at Chargers L 31-14 11 3135.5 212 1 0 70.9

Steve McNair 1995 16 at Buffalo W 28-17 12 2646.2 168 1 0 80.3

David Carr 2002 2 at Chargers L 24-3 6 2524.0 87 0 2 8.2

Matt Schaub* 2004 15 at Saints L 41-17 17 4141.5 188 0 2 35.4

T. J. Yates 2011 13 at Bengals W 20-19 26 4459.0 300 2 1 85.4

Case Keenum 2013 7 at Chiefs L 17-16 15 2560.0 271 1 0 110.6

Rest of the story

 

[thunderkyss]

Colin Kaepernick's first start (albeit at home)
W 32-7 16 comp 23 att 69.6% 243 yards 10.6 ypa 2TD 0 Ints 1 sack 133.1 rate 0 fumbles

I think this is most comparable since he was not the starter & only had 1 week to prepare as the starter. Granted as the #2 he was being prepared similar to the starter & he took garbage time snaps before his first start.

Andrew Luck after OTAs & Training camp as the starter
@CHI L 23 comp 45 att 51.1pct 309 yards 6.9 ypa 1 TD 3 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble

Russell Wilson won the starting job in the preseason
@ ARI W 58-0 18 comp 34 att 52.9 pct 153 yards 4.5 ypa 1 TD 1 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble


I know some people say it's ludicrous to compare Case Keenum to Andrew Luck. But those three guys are considered to be "franchise" QBs. If the idea is to see if Keenum can be a franchise guy, I don't know who else to compare him to.

& Keenum compares well after 1 start. Playing a tougher defense, statistically, with less preperation.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Colin Kaepernick's first start (albeit at home)
W 32-7 16 comp 23 att 69.6% 243 yards 10.6 ypa 2TD 0 Ints 1 sack 133.1 rate 0 fumbles

I think this is most comparable since he was not the starter & only had 1 week to prepare as the starter. Granted as the #2 he was being prepared similar to the starter & he took garbage time snaps before his first start.

Andrew Luck after OTAs & Training camp as the starter
@CHI L 23 comp 45 att 51.1pct 309 yards 6.9 ypa 1 TD 3 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble

Russell Wilson won the starting job in the preseason
@ ARI W 58-0 18 comp 34 att 52.9 pct 153 yards 4.5 ypa 1 TD 1 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble


I know some people say it's ludicrous to compare Case Keenum to Andrew Luck. But those three guys are considered to be "franchise" QBs. If the idea is to see if Keenum can be a franchise guy, I don't know who else to compare him to.

& Keenum compares well after 1 start. Playing a tougher defense, statistically, with less preperation.

Thanks for those extra stats.

 

[Lord Bills]

From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.

absolutely. it would have been intentional grounding. Keenum took the sack like a real man unlike schaub who would have been so scared to be sacked that he would have thrown it away to get intercepted for a pick six.

 

[Scooter]

from doc's all 22 link

“We knew he could throw the ball. Him in that shotgun-type of look, where he looks like he’s going to hand it off, sometimes that slows the rush down because [you don’t know] if it could be a run, or it could be a pass. Once we know it is a pass, we can go after him.”

and this is why you keep a back in at this level. you have to at least threaten the run, even if running doesnt work. you also have to keep the back in for blitz pickup to prevent a free rusher. this becomes infinitely more important when you have a young quarterback who's not as able to protect himself with hot reads and only a week to prepare.