It's common practice for coaches to do an over-all evaluation during the bye week.
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Who gets the start at QB after the bye?
- Thread starter IlliniJen
- Start date
It's common practice for coaches to do an over-all evaluation during the bye week.
Having Schaub on the bench is just fine (if he's healthy); sooner or later, Schaub will have to accept a backup/mentor role with some team.
We need Yates to run the scout team.
Getting Schaub into the backup role gracefully seems to be the biggest sticking point. Kubiak and Schaub have a lot of history and respect for each other. It's all gonna be about saving face. But I do believe it will happen or Kubiak will be a players coach with no players.
No.... I'm upset about it. One good part about the bye is that it allows some of the guys to get healthy, but I also thought it would be a good time to get Case some 1st team snaps. Wednesday, Thursday, & Friday.... wasted by giving the team the week off.
I think there's enough respect between the two that Matt as the back-up wouldn't be an issue. I think it's sticky right now, because Kubiak doesn't want him on the sideline. It's just a feeling, but I think Kubiak would have named Keenum the starter by now if the plan was to make Matt the back-up.
I don't know why he wouldn't want Matt on the sideline. If we started the season thinking Matt could win a Super Bowl, then we spend 4 games trying to get Matt out of his funk, the next step would be to have Matt wait for his opportunity as the #2.
Even if the original plan was to transition to Keenum by 2014, letting Matt be the #2 & being possibly getting an opportunity to redeem himself & get a job next season, makes perfect sense. & I like Tj, but I'd rather take a chance with Matt coming in to save the day (if needed) than Tj.
Well, Bledsoe was in his ninth year with the Patriots when he got hurt in game two.
When he came back, Belichik decided to stick with Brady even though Tom didn't really light it up. Brady TD/INT ration was 18/12 that year, hardly great. He even had a 4-INT game in week 6.
And it wasn't like Bledsoe was done; he went on to start for the Bills the next three years, and for the Cowboys another year and a half.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Yea man.. I especially liked the last offensive play that Keenum made when he was showing off his mobility, pocket awareness, and throw on the run skills. Whooohooo! Go Keenum! Nothing like a sack/fumble near your goal line to end any chance you have to drive down the field and kick the game winning FG to showcase those awesome attributes eh? Nothing says mobility better than not being able to outrun a 275 pound man. Go Keenum Go!
July 20, 2009 5:33 pm
Former Patriots quarterback Drew Bledsoe was a guest on Phoenix sports radio station KTAR last week, and spoke for one of the first times about his feelings on losing his job to Tom Brady after the devastating 2001 hit from the Jets' Mo Lewis that landed him in the hospital for several days.
"You know, I think that when you're young and you come in and have some success, you think you're bulletproof to an extent. But you find out fairly quickly that football is a replacement business and that no matter what it is that you've done, you're as good as your last play. And then to have all of that going on where I couldn't get my job back and this other kid was in there playing, begrudgingly now I can say he was playing awfully well and has gone on to play very well.
"But you know, there was some soul searching going on just to figure out how I was going to handle that whole thing. But you know, I swallowed my pride and showed up for work and got ready to play every week."
Bledsoe goes on to talk about the excitement he felt getting to play in the AFC Championship game in 2001 after Brady suffered a knee injury, and also discussed one of the other memorable hits of his career (aside from Lewis' tackle).
Nitrofish, man, you might want to spend more time rewatching the game.
You come across as a hater, I'm sorry to say it.
Are you seriously comparing Kubiak to Belichik? That's just wrong on several levels, regardless of years HC experience or anything else. Belichik is a football coach. Kubiak is a players coach. Belichick does what's best for the team, as a whole. Kubiak does what he thinks is best for the players, thinking it betters the team. Belichik seems to wholly buy into the idea that competition makes the team better. Kubiak seems to buy into making the players comfortable in their role on the team makes a team better. Judging by the results, I'd say the NFL is a dog eat dog world and the strong survive and prosper.
This is more about coaching philosophy than player ability, real or perceived.
You're an idiot. I hope you haven't found a woman dumb enough to breed with you so you can piss in the human gene pool.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Relax man, If your boy does lose his job, he'll still have one of the best jobs in professional sports.. the backup QB. You get one of the best views in the house, don't have to be hit, and are still paid millions.
It's a pretty sweet deal.
badboy
Hall of Fame
May not remember correctly but seemed like our O lineman should have kept blocking the guy who tackled Keenum from behind. I think Keenum thought his back was protected & was looking down field to make a play.
you're right. keenum needs to go back and talk to schaub on mobility and throwing on the run...you know, show us how it's done matt.
Ball security is an issue that's being glossed over right now. It should have been expected & definitely something he'll be working on in the future. The key is that he knows it's an issue. Over the next three games, his sack fumble # needs to be zero for me to have any more confidence in him going forward than our reigning pick 6 champion.
He's been smart with the ball so far. For me he's earned some leeway in the INT department. He can throw one a game for all I care, as long as he doesn't throw a really, really dumb one or fumble the ball in the same game.
The Keenum era has started.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
You mean I have to actually watch the games? Now why didn't I think of that? Gee Wiz!
Wow, now that was some deep insightful commentary there. One thing is for sure. It did lead to some idea of what kind of a human being you are. Cheers DocBar. You really know how to make the Human Race look good!
Relax man, If your boy does lose his job, he'll still have one of the best jobs in professional sports.. the backup QB. You get one of the best views in the house, don't have to be hit, and are still paid millions.
Did I say something incorrect? Did I exaggerate? Funny also to read all of these comments about Newton all of the sudden, as if he was not the same right tackle who has been missing blocks for two years now. But now that Golden Boy is in, it's an issue.
I hear allot of excuses, but it's ok, I know it is just a matter of time before you all turn on Keenum too. I can wait.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
You mean the unblocked pass rushers? Perfectly valid critique of the QB there.
how could you not turn to someone with more potential at this point in time?
matter of time b4 we turn on keenum? you've already done that....
When Brown was beat to the inside, Keenum had to retreat backward.
He then put both hands on the ball and tried to get out of the pocket before be can decide whether he has a throw downfield, or keep running with it.
Newton let his man get around a hair too quickly.
Normally, it would have been OK if Keenum had the room to step up the pocket.
The defender had a running start, and caught Keenum from behind.
This is still a negative about Keenum.
If he was a bigger QB, he might be able to hold on to the ball better.
However, with Schaub, the defender would have gotten there even sooner.
It would have been a sack just the same; just not sure about the fumble.
Or Schaub could have been hit real hard and cough up the ball. Who knows.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yes you exaggerated.. somebody made a post on how Keenum showed he could make plays outside of the pocket..and he did in the game. Your agenda led you to pull up a bad play against the best front 7 in the league where we had literally no running backs left in the game to keep them honest.
As far as "reading all these comments about Newton all of a sudden". LMAO, this is just you showing your bias if you actually think people are "now just all of a sudden talking about Newton's bad play" or how people just now think it's a issue. That's a complete downright lie, it's been well documented on this board how people feel about Newton.. they were saying he sucks even when your boy played. They have been talking about his bad play since he was inserted into the lineup
As far as how you can't wait for people to "turn on Keenum too", that's really besides the point. The point is people are finally ready to turn the page on Schaub, because it's obvious he is not the answer.. regardless if Keenum will prove to be or not has yet to be seen, but at least we don't know yet, hence why he should get his Shot .. we already know Schaub isn't, hence why it's time for him to move aside.
Kubiak-now vs Belichick-now, you're right. No contest.
Kubiak-now vs Belichick-then...... the argument can be made.
Bill Belichick was not without his faults his first 10 years as HC.
I disagree with the bolded. Keenum palmed the ball with two hands, but that sack would've resulted in a fumble 99% of the time. Keenum did what any QB would do (except Schaub or Carr...they would've assumed fetal many seconds earlier) and put both hands on the ball while looking downfield for an open receiver.
Those kinds of turnovers are much more acceptable than the kind Schaub has had this season. Yates isn't even worth discussing at this point.
With Schaub in there, I think we would have seen about 10 sacks, and an INT or two (maybe even a pick-six; I shudder just thinking about it.)
This one was on the CB blitz from the outside of the LT.
Keenum saw the green dog; with a defender retreat back looking for a pick so be ate the sack.
We have seen Schaub throw a few INTs in this instance; Yates, too.
Keenum avoided a couple of INTs in these similar scenarios (taking a sack both times.)
This one was on the CB blitz from the outside of the LT.
Keenum saw the green dog; with a defender retreat back looking for a pick so be ate the sack.
We have seen Schaub throw a few INTs in this instance; Yates, too.
Keenum avoided a couple of INTs in these similar scenarios (taking a sack both times.)
Yeah, Belichik didn't turn into the Zen master until Brady.
Personally, I was OK with the second fumble, but I didn't want to make an excuse for Keenum.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
You have to take a lot of this guy's comments with a grain of salt. I can't prove it yet, but I'm convinced he's related to Schaub or has a personal relationship with him.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I think Keenum earned the next start it's obvious there's a lot there you can work with. If Kubiak starts Schaub after the bye I think it's going to be a case of him thinking Schaub is still the best option to win and that the season is not lost. I think that is wrong right now but Keenum is still prone to greenhorn mistakes, so it's not completely unfounded that Kubiak might think this. If some media speculation is true, then I have read that Kubiak thinks a lot of Keenum so we shall see what will happen.
Keenum has earned the start with how he performed.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2013/week-7-quick-reads
Obviously it wasn't perfect but he's certainly earned the right.
Keenum has earned the start with how he performed.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2013/week-7-quick-reads
Football Outsiders said:
Obviously it wasn't perfect but he's certainly earned the right.
He looked pretty dang good with Bledsoe before his injury. Don't rewrite history. He wasn't always a great HC, but he always did his best for the team, regardless of position.
Or Schaub would have delivered the ball on time & Newton's whiff would have been a non-issue, the way he used to do. Who knows is right.
Schaub's got his pick 6/INT issue that he was dealing with. Looked aiight against the Rams, but not enough to convince anyone that he's over it. & Keenum's proven that he's a viable alternative to the guy we saw take the field vs San Francisco & Baltimore.
So I'm glad everyone is happy with the new toy. But Keenum is not on par with that guy who played the first half of the Seahawks game, the second half/OT of the Titans game, or the end of the San Diego game. At least we haven't seen a Keenum yet who is on par with that guy. & while there was a dozen things in that game that Schaub would not have been able to do, it's disingenuous to suggest there wasn't a dozen less flashy (but just as effective) things that #8 could've/would've done.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Wow and I was told to actually watch the game. Perhaps you should take that same advice. The guy was blocked 12 yards up the field. How long is a guy supposed to maintain that block? That was one of the rare instances that Newton was actually blocking. Take those rose colored glasses off this time, I am sure you will see what I mean.
I have? Why because I pointed out the truth? I support whomever is the starting QB, and if that is Keenum he will have my full support.
Brown was not beat, he was pushed into the pocket, but he was not beat, and Newton blocked Hali 12 yards up the field. This sack/fumble was on Keenum no matter how much you want to deny it.
I have watched the play 20 times now. Keenum had enough time to throw, and room to run had he chosen to do that. He held the ball, he got sacked, he fumbled, which is why you don't want your QB running around extending plays because that is what can happen.
A sack would have been fine, at least the Texans could have gotten up and ran some more plays. Still had a chance to win with a sack, but the turnover ended the game.
No running backs to keep them honest? Dude there was 1:41 left in the game, the Texans had no time outs. Who the hell would be running the ball at that point to keep someone honest? NOBODY! Just more excuses. Keenum had plenty of time to be the hero and win the game, he failed and ended it on ONE PLAY even though all of you swore if we just had a mobile QB those things would not happen.
Wait I thought the Seahawaks have the best front 7? Hmmm. seems like to me you want to make excuses. It does not matter what front 7 you are facing. If your have that IT factor, then you win. Isn't that what was said? Doesn't Keenum have that IT, that "Aura"? Where was it on the one play we needed it most?
I never said "I can't wait", so stop trying to put words in my mouth. I said "it is a matter of time", so stop with the BS. Nothing wrong with being ready to turn the page on Schaub, but pumping sunshine as you guys used to say does not make the problem go away.
There was nothing in my original post that said it is not time to move on, nor anything saying Case should not get another shot. I simply called the play out for what it is. A game ending sack fumble on a guy who is supposed to be mobile, have a quick release, and great pocket awareness. None of those things were displayed on that final play. I am sorry if that hurts your feelings, but lets see the Internet tough guy you were when you were criticizing Schaub when giving analysis on Keenum.
No way; if Schaub saw Brown get beat to the inside, he would have retreat and curl up. Can't get the pass off there; no time. Heck, even with Keenum's quick delivery, he didn't even have time to throw the ball. There's no way Schaub can get the ball off. There was nobody open early; and you don't call a play for your QB to take the snap and just throw the ball away immediately; there is no such play in football.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
My problem with Schaub is that going back to last season it is become blatantly clear that he is not the same guy and I'm becoming a true believer on what the good local Doc had to say about his foot injury. He went from being some one who was considered by even the national media as a "vastly underrated player", having debates whether or not if he's a top 10/ elite QB.. (and whether he was or not, he at least played like one and could put up the #s to boot). He's fallen to a player that is now regarded by those around the league as just a "game manager type". We've seen flashes of the old Schaub like you've mentioned above, but they've become fewer and farther between and you can no longer consistently expect that type of play out of "today's Schaub".
Honestly the only thing I think Keenum lacks that Schaub has is experience (one of the reasons why he was so bothered by the blitzes late in that game) and there's only one way for him to get experience. He has to play. Schaub's best days are behind him though and I don't expect him to return to form. I still like the guy and don't want us to IR him, I think his knowledge and experience can help Keenum and he could be a valuable asset to bounce questions off of.
And remember that I didn't blame Newton on this play, even though he can do a hair better.
Keenum was out of the pocket at the 3-sec mark; that's all you can ask from your QB, wouldn't you say?
Look at the routes that Hopkins, Jean, Graham, and Tate ran.
They require that the QB being able to step up the pocket.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
In a perfect world lineman should pancake their man and then lay on top of him until the whistle blows, but there is no doubt Newton was outclassed by Tamba Hali, but on that play, Newton blocked his man sufficiently. The ball should have come out, or Keenum should have ran.
actually no, that would be stupid since Schaub is not mobile, but perhaps Keenum could take a page from (Excluding the recent rash of turnover) Schaub's excellent record of protecting the football. As much as we hate to see Schaub fall down when a sack is imminent, it is a matter of protecting the football and not coughing it up like Keenum did. Sure you get extended plays when you have a guy running around back there on broken plays, but you also see more turnovers when you get outside the game plan. Ultimately it is exciting to watch, but it did not win the game, in fact it was the sole reason the game was lost.
Even though I know you are such a narcissist that you are incapable of conceiving of the idea that not everyone thinks like you, I have to say that going back to the tired "he is a relative of" or "In a relationship with" Schaub does nothing for your credibility. Kind of like saying Keenum was sacked and fumbled because we had no running backs to keep the D honest. WEAK SAUCE!
Excellent post!
Really? You mean with with 1:41 to go and no timeouts you should just take your time and wait for players to get open? That at some point the defender is going to find his mark while you mosey around in the pocket? Keenum had plenty of time to throw, and or run. He hesitated, he got sacked, he fumbled, Chiefs recovered, GAME OVER!
Of course you throw the ball away, stop the clock and prevent a turnover from happening. Have more chances to get in FG range. There is a such a play in the NFL. It's called "common knowledge on three, ready? BREAK!"
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
You do understand that was not the Texans offensive scheme right? That they basically ran plays from Keenum's College days so that he would do well? You understand that is why he was moving the ball on the Chiefs so easily right? Caught them off guard in the first half for sure as they were expecting the Texans offensive scheme.
But you see what happened in the 2nd half right? After the Chiefs figured out what the Texans were trying to do and adjusted? But you also realize that the Texans are not going to continue to run the spread offense the rest of the year right? So what does Keenum look like when he is running the Texans offensive scheme? We didn't get to see that, so we do not know anything other than you caught a team off guard for a half of football that was not expecting the spread offense from the Texans.
Thank goodness, I was beginning to think I might have to keep listening to comments from your side of the gene pool.
Yep, I've added one to my ignore list as well
Awwwe, how sweet. Well aren't you two a cute couple now!
At the very least we live to play another down...... on offense, with the ball.
I agree with your whole post. This part though is the most important part going forward. You just don't know. & we won't know until he gets back in the saddle. & if we can't expect him to be that guy consistently then my vote is to go with the kid... I think it's easier for Kubiak to anticipate where he'll struggle & compensate accordingly..... plus Case's big play ability (which we have not seen from Schaub in a long, long time) pottentially trumps whatever rookie mistakes he might have (to a point).
When it is clear cut, yes.
Keenum did eat a couple of sacks and threw the ball away at least once when it was clear that he should.
This isn't one of those times.
Vance87
All Pro
You do understand that was not the Texans offensive scheme right? That they basically ran plays from Keenum's College days so that he would do well? You understand that is why he was moving the ball on the Chiefs so easily right? Caught them off guard in the first half for sure as they were expecting the Texans offensive scheme.
But you see what happened in the 2nd half right? After the Chiefs figured out what the Texans were trying to do and adjusted? But you also realize that the Texans are not going to continue to run the spread offense the rest of the year right? So what does Keenum look like when he is running the Texans offensive scheme? We didn't get to see that, so we do not know anything other than you caught a team off guard for a half of football that was not expecting the spread offense from the Texans.
Thank goodness, I was beginning to think I might have to keep listening to comments from your side of the gene pool.
Awwwe, how sweet. Well aren't you two a cute couple now!
I didn't realize that scrambling out to the sidelines, then coming back and throwing a perfect ball across your body 40 yards down the field was in our playbook. Thanks.
I think that's a very important point to remember. We only needed a field goal. & what we saw, I think Keenum was trying to make a play instead of living to play another down.
It would have been great & he'd have been a hero had he made something out of that one.... but there's a balance & we're going to see how that balances out with Keenum if he continues to play. I think it's safe to say most here are not comfortable with where that risk/rewards balance settled with Schaub.
Nitro, I am a Cougars fan since 1975.
I had watched plenty of Keenum.
That was not Cougars offense; it was 100% Texans offense.
When I ask you to watch more football, I'm quite serious.
It's not a knock; the last 4-5 years. I'm on football as a 70-80 hour a week job.
I don't claim that I know everything about football, but I do try to learn and watch a lot.
TK, please rewatch the play again; there was no time to throw the ball away!!!
You do understand this is the same strategy that got RGIII, Russell Wilson, & Andrew Luck into the play-offs last season don't you? How can you not be on board with this strategy?
& you make it sound like we sht canned the whole book & that's not the case. That bootleg that set Graham up..... we've run that many times in the past. The bootleg is a big part of our system, but we've basically scrapped that with Schaub under center since it appears the word around the NFL is that's the only way Schaub can hurt them. If the backside defender doesn't chase the run..... we're not going to run the bootleg......
So we put things in & take things out all the time. That's the way it is in the NFL.
I thought you said he left the pocket at the second mark. That's a lifetime against that pass rush.
But the play called for him to step up the pocket.
Watch it again. If he tried to throw the ball, it would have been batted down.