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Foster/Tate down leaves Graham for now…

TexanBorn51

TexanBorn51

All Pro
Accordingly if it were not for the ACL in 2011 and then later affected his senior year and combine that he would have been drafted and ranked higher. As a UFDA if he gets back to pre injury condition and it’s now late 2013 a source says http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/130757/ray-graham that it usually takes about 2 years to fully recover from ACL. Just sharing this (hopefully in right thread) pending any other RB3 pickups before deadline http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/08/16/know-your-rookies-ray-graham/
 
TexanBorn51 said:
Accordingly if it were not for the ACL in 2011 and then later affected his senior year and combine that he would have been drafted and ranked higher. As a UFDA if he gets back to pre injury condition and it’s now late 2013 a source says http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/130757/ray-graham that it usually takes about 2 years to fully recover from ACL. Just sharing this (hopefully in right thread) pending any other RB3 pickups before deadline http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/08/16/know-your-rookies-ray-graham/
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And most ACL players regain usually only ~80% pre-injury performance. AP should not be used as a typical example. Graham looked anything but impressive in the preseason. He was put on the PS more for longer term "potential" (and how many times have we missed this year alone on "potential"?), otherwise Karim would have definitely been a Texan (Johnson became a non-factor as he couldn't hold onto his shorts, let alone the ball). I can't get too excited about Graham.
 
The ZBS turns mailmen and grocery baggers into pro bowlers, not too worried about finding a warm body as long as he isn't asked to run out of the pistol.
 
Uncle Rico said:
The ZBS turns mailmen and grocery baggers into pro bowlers, not too worried about finding a warm body as long as he isn't asked to run out of the pistol.
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The only difference between the Pistol and our regular offense is the shotgun snap. We can run all of the same stuff we usually do. Only the snap is different.
 
Oh ok 80%. I thought that stat was asking for a lot to come back on. Anyways there sure is a lot of losing players movement from positions in just the last two weeks. What a first half of a season..................Guess we'll see what the deadline brings during bye week sure got some glaring problems going on......
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
And most ACL players regain usually only ~80% pre-injury performance. AP should not be used as a typical example. Graham looked anything but impressive in the preseason. He was put on the PS more for longer term "potential" (and how many times have we missed this year alone on "potential"?), otherwise Karim would have definitely been a Texan (Johnson became a non-factor as he couldn't hold onto his shorts, let alone the ball). I can't get too excited about Graham.
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I DISAGREE completely about Graham, he impressed in the SMALL amount of time he played....watch out for this guy, I think he will be a stud especially in the ZBS
 
makes the decision to cut woods look even worse.

The decision to cut all three players looks pretty excessive to me.

They should have fined and suspended them. These are young guys, people make mistake.

I dont understand this zero tolerance policy. Draconian laws have no business in the nf where young players are bound to do stupid things.

These guys play football for a living. Not running for president or pope. Certain leeway should be afforded.
 
WolverineFan said:
The only difference between the Pistol and our regular offense is the shotgun snap. We can run all of the same stuff we usually do. Only the snap is different.
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pretty sure the RB is also 4 more yards behind the LOS in the pistol than if the QB is under center, TBH i did not like the pistol last week. Maybe i would have if i could of actually seen how the running game looked out of it, but we didnt get to see that aspect of it haha
 
Lord Bills said:
makes the decision to cut woods look even worse.

The decision to cut all three players looks pretty excessive to me.

They should have fined and suspended them. These are young guys, people make mistake.

I dont understand this zero tolerance policy. Draconian laws have no business in the nf where young players are bound to do stupid things.

These guys play football for a living. Not running for president or pope. Certain leeway should be afforded.
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All of these guys had trouble in college. I'm sure they were known how little leeway they had when they were signed.

They couldn't even make it halfway through the season before doing something stupid. I don't think this is a case of Draconian laws. This is a case of taking a chance on some guys and them not respecting that.
 
WolverineFan said:
All of these guys had trouble in college. I'm sure they were known how little leeway they had when they were signed.

They couldn't even make it halfway through the season before doing something stupid. I don't think this is a case of Draconian laws. This is a case of taking a chance on some guys and them not respecting that.
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that's college. they should have a clean slate when they came to the texans.

You think kubiak held it against them that they got in trouble in college?

That's just dumb.
 
Lord Bills said:
that's college. they should have a clean slate when they came to the texans.

You think kubiak held it against them that they got in trouble in college?

That's just dumb.
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he has not signed people before based on problems in college, they have talked about it also. How they only like to bring a certain kind of person to the team. Hell look at our roster and tell me who u see as past trouble makers, and look at our guys and tell me who you see that is ever in trouble now compared to most teams.
 
EllisUnit said:
he has not signed people before based on problems in college, they have talked about it also. How they only like to bring a certain kind of person to the team. Hell look at our roster and tell me who u see as past trouble makers, and look at our guys and tell me who you see that is ever in trouble now compared to most teams.
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that still doesnt explain wolverine's reasoning.

They got in trouble in college so they should get no leeway in the nfl?

That makes no sense whatsoever. Cutting the players was the wrong move. They should have fined or suspended them.
 
Lord Bills said:
makes the decision to cut woods look even worse.

The decision to cut all three players looks pretty excessive to me.

They should have fined and suspended them. These are young guys, people make mistake.

I dont understand this zero tolerance policy. Draconian laws have no business in the nf where young players are bound to do stupid things.

These guys play football for a living. Not running for president or pope. Certain leeway should be afforded.
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Who the hell can honestly say this was their first offense since joining the Texans? The Texans have a track record of working with players, so I highly doubt they just cut three guys due to one **** up. Just because nothing was every reported earlier before, doesn't mean they had a clean track record and just now happened to screw up.. I mean it's not like these guys have been active all season are have been getting playing time or something.


Good riddance to all 3, we're 2-5 and these guys weren't even getting burn, so I highly doubt these guys were going to help save the season anyways and I don't want my team carrying dumbasses going any further into the future. Right now is the perfect time to get rid of the idiots on this roster who suffer from "head up ass" disease.
 
Lord Bills said:
that still doesnt explain wolverine's reasoning.

They got in trouble in college so they should get no leeway in the nfl?

That makes no sense whatsoever. Cutting the players was the wrong move. They should have fined or suspended them.
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No they should have cut them.. hence while they're cut.

You actually have to show that you're worth keeping around and are worth the headache to get forwarded the type of "leeway" you're talking about. Apparently these guys were obviously more trouble than they were worth to the team. Especially fat ass lazy Sam, who was cut even though he was taken in the 3rd round. You don't just cut 3rd rounders for a rule infraction, it's pretty obvious he was cut, because the Texans lost faith in his ability to become a player for them on the field.

Just because "they're football players" and not the president of the united states, doesn't excuse them of all bad behavior and doesn't mean they aren't grown ass men who should behave like responsible adults. I'm so sick of the coddle mentality, that's been one of the problems here.. Now all of those others who might have been "slipping" get to watch and learn what happens to you if you can't remove head from ass.. You get put back on the unemployment line. It's a privilege to play in the NFL so they should've respected it more.
 
EllisUnit said:
pretty sure the RB is also 4 more yards behind the LOS in the pistol than if the QB is under center, TBH i did not like the pistol last week. Maybe i would have if i could of actually seen how the running game looked out of it, but we didnt get to see that aspect of it haha
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RB lines up the same distance (7 yds). The QB and FB are the only guys who move. The Pistol actually helps the RB. Instead of running forward at the snap for the handoff, the RB takes a hop step instead and gets to read the defense for an extra second before getting the handoff.

The reason we got blown up running it last week is 1) we were playing the best front seven in the league and 2) we had a young QB making his 1st start (thus, stacked box).
 
WolverineFan said:
RB lines up the same distance (7 yds). The QB and FB are the only guys who move. The Pistol actually helps the RB. Instead of running forward at the snap for the handoff, the RB takes a hop step instead and gets to read the defense for an extra second before getting the handoff.

The reason we got blown up running it last week is 1) we were playing the best front seven in the league and 2) we had a young QB making his 1st start (thus, stacked box).
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Chiefs may be solid at rushing the passer but their run D has been suspect, wouldnt of mattered anyways we didnt have any RBs to see how we looked running out of the pistol anyways.
 
Lord Bills said:
that's college. they should have a clean slate when they came to the texans.

You think kubiak held it against them that they got in trouble in college?

That's just dumb.
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Off the top of my head... Da'Rick Rogers, Vontaze Burfict, Cliff Harris. All players with 1st round talent that went undrafted because of their history in college.

Of course character matters. It's on the scouting report right next to their 40 time.

Also, this discussion was already had in the other thread. Let's talk about Graham.
 
Just a thought, but what if the Texans resign Cierre Wood? Give him a week off for punishment and just bring him back? IMO, Tate is probably done for most of the regular season. It'll be ~ week 13 before he'll be healed up from broken ribs (assuming Kubiak doesn't get stupid and play him against Indy or he has any setbacks, cuz injured Texans are notorious for setbacks from "minor" injuries), so they should seriously consider IR'ing Tate, bringing Wood back and bring Graham up.

I'd play Wood and Graham against Indy, give Foster enough time to heal up, then make Graham the 3rd RB. Makes sense to me, anyway.

:goodluck:
 
I think Graham will be brought up from the practice squad, and:
a) Dennis Johnson signed off Cleveland's practice squad
b) Deji Karim signed off the street
c) a&b if Tate is going to miss games
 
EllisUnit said:
Chiefs may be solid at rushing the passer but their run D has been suspect, wouldnt of mattered anyways we didnt have any RBs to see how we looked running out of the pistol anyways.
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We've been running out of the pistol all year. The fact that you haven't noticed suggests it's not a big deal.
 
Lord Bills said:
that still doesnt explain wolverine's reasoning.

They got in trouble in college so they should get no leeway in the nfl?

That makes no sense whatsoever. Cutting the players was the wrong move. They should have fined or suspended them.
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Your leeway is getting the chance to actually play for an NFL team. What you do in college definitely matters because it begins a pattern. Take Willie Jefferson. He was with Baylor so got a great opportunity. What did he do with it? Basically he smoked it away with repeated drug tests that he failed. So now he has another chance and opportunity in the pros and what does he do? The same damn thing.

It's hard to argue that if you just slap their wrists they will learn and not repeat it because they already made it part of their pattern. In the NFL you don't always have the luxury of growing up.
 
Lord Bills said:
makes the decision to cut woods look even worse.

The decision to cut all three players looks pretty excessive to me.

They should have fined and suspended them. These are young guys, people make mistake.

I dont understand this zero tolerance policy. Draconian laws have no business in the nf where young players are bound to do stupid things.

These guys play football for a living. Not running for president or pope. Certain leeway should be afforded.
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You sound like the kind of person who has no accountability in his life. The Texans make a lot of really bad decisions, but cutting some immature players who are unappreciative of the career they get to have as professional football players that are bench players on top of that is not one of them. This is just bad timing from a RB stand point I applaud their decision to cut a few knuckleheads from a 2-5 team. Get them the hell out of here.
 
Lord Bills said:
that's college. they should have a clean slate when they came to the texans.

You think kubiak held it against them that they got in trouble in college?

That's just dumb.
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Hi potential Texan player. We'd like to pay you a bunch of money to play football. We know you had some issues in college. We are going to forget about that and give you a chance. You need to be dedicated to the team. You have no leeway. Commit to the team and you have a chance at becoming a successful player. Revert back to who you were in college and you'll be back on the street.

Sounds reasonable to me.
 
Lord Bills said:
that's college. they should have a clean slate when they came to the texans.

You think kubiak held it against them that they got in trouble in college?

That's just dumb.
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No but I can see Kubiak and management as a whole holding 3 Pro players huddled up in the bathroom in a "NO SMOKING" room doing exactly that. Only they kicked it up a notch with some DRO. You know these professional athletes ain't gonna be burnin' none of that bunk junk the commoners blow. Nuthin' but the finest DRO bud for these cats. It's just the way they roll. Plus you have to consider how strong the really good stuff permeates the air. That and the fact with them being so "smart" about it by depending on the exhaust fan evacuating the smell did them in since instead getting rid of the aroma it essentially distributed that sickening sweet smell throughout the wing. I don't know the 'lay of the land' but if there was a wall/baseboard unit in the room that was the ticket and we'd have never heard a peep about this. But no, let's huddle up in the head.

SMDH. :potsmokingemoticonhere:
 
Lord Bills said:
makes the decision to cut woods look even worse.

The decision to cut all three players looks pretty excessive to me.

They should have fined and suspended them. These are young guys, people make mistake.

I dont understand this zero tolerance policy. Draconian laws have no business in the nf where young players are bound to do stupid things.
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You are assuming that they werent given warnings.
 
DocBar said:
Just a thought, but what if the Texans resign Cierre Wood? Give him a week off for punishment and just bring him back? IMO, Tate is probably done for most of the regular season. It'll be ~ week 13 before he'll be healed up from broken ribs (assuming Kubiak doesn't get stupid and play him against Indy or he has any setbacks, cuz injured Texans are notorious for setbacks from "minor" injuries), so they should seriously consider IR'ing Tate, bringing Wood back and bring Graham up.

I'd play Wood and Graham against Indy, give Foster enough time to heal up, then make Graham the 3rd RB. Makes sense to me, anyway.

:goodluck:
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I think if we brought Wood back in a week after giving him a slap on the wrist for being naughty then there would be someone from the NFL waiting to ask him to pee in a cup about half an hour later.

That's if they can do that. I bet they can.
 
michaelm said:
I think Graham will be brought up from the practice squad, and:
a) Dennis Johnson signed off Cleveland's practice squad
b) Deji Karim signed off the street
c) a&b if Tate is going to miss games
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Pretty much. Graham starts for us next week, I sign Karim to back him up and if both Foster and Tate can't go for a few weeks I find someone else out there (Not real fired up about Dennis Johnson though) to back them up.

Foster says he'll be ready to go against the Colts. I think that sounds great but that kind of talk never seems to work out for us so I wouldn't count on it. Best to play it smart with both of them. Hell I might even IR Tate if his ribs are as bad as they sound.

Foster (once he gets back), Graham, and Karim would be fine going forward.
 
Both Foster and Tate said they will be good to go following the bye week. I tend to believe that with Foster, although the risk for re aggravating is always present. Tate, not so much. He was tough to come back in the game with that injury, but he was not effective. He needs to heal up.

I could see us signing a guy like Karim to get through practice the next 2 weeks with 2 backs (Graham doesn't have to be signed to practice) and being able to rest Foster and Tate. Probably go against the Colts with Foster, Karim, and Graham in that order. Tate is inactive until he's ready to go.
 
TexanBorn51 said:
Oh ok 80%. I thought that stat was asking for a lot to come back on. Anyways there sure is a lot of losing players movement from positions in just the last two weeks. What a first half of a season..................Guess we'll see what the deadline brings during bye week sure got some glaring problems going on......
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"... glaring problems going on..." Injuries, QB shuffle, bad play, Kubiak standard coaching. Wouldn't it be a kick in the groin if at 2-5 the best part of the Texans season is behind them?

I think that is very unlikely, but they do have a lot of issues
 
The thing that concerns me the most about signing RB's .... pass protection / blitz pickup. Having Keenum in the backfield with his lack of experience and a back lacking experience .... is a recipe for disaster.
 
Corrosion said:
The thing that concerns me the most about signing RB's .... pass protection / blitz pickup. Having Keenum in the backfield with his lack of experience and a back lacking experience .... is a recipe for disaster.
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Especially since we don't call out the protection, or point out the free rusher/Mike. The QB just has to know the RB knows what he knows.
 
Hervoyel said:
I think if we brought Wood back in a week after giving him a slap on the wrist for being naughty then there would be someone from the NFL waiting to ask him to pee in a cup about half an hour later.

That's if they can do that. I bet they can.
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As long as they don't do the hair test. The others can be beat. :kitten:
 
Don't tell me we are starting to run out of UDFA's that outperform all expectations. LOL
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
For anyone that thinks Graham can "replace" Foster, Graham has zilch chance of running away from his shadow with a 4.80 40.
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Do you think Graham could have improved his 40 time since the combine? 4.8 is really slow for a rb. I know it is because of injury so I was hoping maybe the speed is coming back slowly over time.
 
bckey said:
Do you think Graham could have improved his 40 time since the combine? 4.8 is really slow for a rb. I know it is because of injury so I was hoping maybe the speed is coming back slowly over time.
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He tried again on his Pro Day and improved to 4.72.:kubepalm:
 
Because someone is going to have to say it if for no other reason than to get it out of the way here we go..... "Emmitt Smith ran a 4.8 in the 40"
 
Hervoyel said:
Because someone is going to have to say it if for no other reason than to get it out of the way here we go..... "Emmitt Smith ran a 4.8 in the 40"
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I've watched both Foster and Tate get run down from behind at various times. Doesn't bother me. Didn't bother me when Domanick Davis got ran down from behind. All I care about is getting into the secondary. If he can't turn a 20 yard run into a 40 yard run, I can live with that. It's the ones that can't turn a 2 yard run into a 5 yard run that I have issues with.
 
Hervoyel said:
Because someone is going to have to say it if for no other reason than to get it out of the way here we go..... "Emmitt Smith ran a 4.8 in the 40"
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That oft-quoted number was actually obtained from his school "combine." It was timed manually as were all school 40s at the time. This has been shown to vary by 0.5 seconds to the most accurate electronic method. Therefore, the NFL Combine first engaged partial electronic timing of the 40 after 1990. With this timing, Smith subsequently ran a 4.50.
 
Either way, there's a difference between a 210lb guy running 4.8 & a 190lb guy running 4.8
 
eriadoc said:
I've watched both Foster and Tate get run down from behind at various times. Doesn't bother me. Didn't bother me when Domanick Davis got ran down from behind. All I care about is getting into the secondary. If he can't turn a 20 yard run into a 40 yard run, I can live with that. It's the ones that can't turn a 2 yard run into a 5 yard run that I have issues with.
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I think they call that the Ron Dayne syndrome. "If you need 1, he can get you 2; if you need 3 he can get you 2"

I've heard a list of FA on the street. There's a reason most of those guys are on the street at this point in the season. I imagine that we are looking for a stopgap for the next week or 2. If we lose against Indy, I think we shutdown Foster and let Tate handle the reps once he's healthy.
 
Texecutioner said:
You sound like the kind of person who has no accountability in his life. The Texans make a lot of really bad decisions, but cutting some immature players who are unappreciative of the career they get to have as professional football players that are bench players on top of that is not one of them. This is just bad timing from a RB stand point I applaud their decision to cut a few knuckleheads from a 2-5 team. Get them the hell out of here.
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Yeah, there are plenty of Kubiak's decisions you can question, this really isn't one of them. If you're too stupid to not do whatever they were doing the night before a huge game when you're gonna get a shot to make an impact, then you're too stupid to be on my team.
 
Lord Bills said:
that's college. they should have a clean slate when they came to the texans.

You think kubiak held it against them that they got in trouble in college?

That's just dumb.
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why should they have a clean slate from college? Stupid is stupid and they were given chance to not be stupid again. That is hardly draconian. Perhaps you should learn what the term means. The athenian law giver punished most crimes with death and it has come to be known as "harsh". I doubt many will agree with you that these three were treated harshly. College and young adulthood is not a free card to do stupid and expect others to shrug it off.
 
BigBull17 said:
Yeah, there are plenty of Kubiak's decisions you can question, this really isn't one of them. If you're too stupid to not do whatever they were doing the night before a huge game when you're gonna get a shot to make an impact, then you're too stupid to be on my team.
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Problem is the Texans never said what team rules they broke. & they shouldn't. We've heard the players speak out & they seem to understand that this was warranted.

Both Montgomery & Jefferson have come out with negative drug screens. Chances are they'll get picked up by some other team, they'll make an impact, maybe even become "stars"

Most people will blame Kubiak for cutting them. like he cut Demps, Jacoby, Trindon, & even though Wade said he'd rather have McClain than Chris Jones, Kubiak gets it for that as well. Even though cutting them is probably what saved their careers.

Yeah, Jacoby & Trindon flashed here. But they weren't nearly as consistent as they are now. Not only did they fumble, or fail to cleanly receive the ball, but they both tended to run sideways when they were here.
 
Ok, so based on the very small amount of information we have to work with here's the question. If Foster and Tate are both in street clothes on the sidelines who do you think will start Sunday night and who will be first off the bench?

I'm hoping Dennis Johnson ends up as the 3 and we never see his fumble-prone ass on the field at all.
 
Hervoyel said:
Ok, so based on the very small amount of information we have to work with here's the question. If Foster and Tate are both in street clothes on the sidelines who do you think will start Sunday night and who will be first off the bench?

I'm hoping Dennis Johnson ends up as the 3 and we never see his fumble-prone ass on the field at all.
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I think Karim starts. He played pretty good in the preseason and would be on the team if Wood wouldn't have exploded.
 
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