Texans_Chick: Texans are not a “run first team”

[Playoffs]

Steph with an in depth look at the Texans' offense balances run/pass, dispelling some common myths. Great read!

Texans mythbusters: The Texans are not a “run first team”

I read a lot of Texans content. And on of the most repeated things I read about the Texans that I think is WRONG WRONG WRONG is the statement that the Texans are a “run first team.”

But when Dennison came to the team, he wanted the Texans offensive line to be dominant in the redzone, to be able to impose their will in the redzone by running the ball whenever they want to. And that was the beginning of Arian Foster vulturing a lot of redzone TDs. Why risk a interception when a lot of times Foster can just pick his way through the blocks and walk into the endzone? (Not as flashy as a passing TD, but I got to tell you I very much enjoy the Foster untouched, saunter-in TDs. Namaste y’all.)

Now probably the best recent description of the Texans offensive strategy comes from a Mike Silver article (link) last year after the dismantling of the Ravens. Why do you know it is spot on? Because it heavily quotes former Texans QB Sage Rosenfels, and isn’t some random national writer dude who saw the Texans play a few nationally televised games the last few years or focuses on fantasy football stats or slept at a Holiday Inn Express one night and then tries to state his definitive opinion about the Texans...

Do you know which team threw the ball the most in the first half of games on first down? Throwing on first down is typically seen as a more aggressive offensive play.
...
Do you know what teams ran the ball the most on first down in the second half of games in 2012?
...
According to the Pro Football Reference Game Play Finder...

 

[eriadoc]

There are no run first teams in the NFL. Insofar as there are running teams, the Texans are probably top 5 or so.

 

[thunderkyss]

Great read as always. I followed the link to Sage Rosenfel's explanation of the offense..... good stuff

"They're so successful because their run and pass plays, both formationally and the way they're taught, are so identical," Rosenfels said. "They only have so many actual concepts, but he does a ton of formations. He might run the same play that they've seen on film, but the defense can't figure it out, because he'll have Owen Daniels running Andre Johnson's route, or Kevin Walter running Owen's – they've switched places.

"If you think about it, there's not a lot of play-changing at the line, or declaring [which player is] the Mike linebacker, or holding the ball because no one's open and trying to make something happen. It's less playmaking than straight execution. You go through your reads and there's somewhere to go with the ball. And as somebody said to me the other day, 'Nobody gets people more wide open than Gary Kubiak.' "

Some good stuff from TCs article

LT Duane Brown 12/19/12 quote: (on how important it is for the Texans to run the ball effectively) “It means a lot. When you’re not one-dimensional, teams can’t really get a read on what you’re trying to do. For us, it all starts with the run game. We’re able to run the ball well, get teams keying on that, and it opens up a whole lot for our offense; and if you’re able to do both, stay balanced throughout the whole game, it opens up our whole playbook.”

WR Andre Johnson 12/19/12 quote: (on the balance of the Texans’ offense and using the play-action) “When we’re able to run the ball well, it just opens up everything else. It’s always been like that since (Head) Coach (Gary) Kubiak has been here. When they brought in this style of offense, whenever the run game is going, it just opens up everything else. Sometimes you may run the ball and you may not hit those big runs like you want to at first, but you may hit a few passes and you see the run game open up and then everything else becomes kind of easy. I think that’s the biggest thing for us is just getting our run game going. When we do that, we tend to win a lot of games and it just opens everything else up.”

 

[disaacks3]

"If you think about it, there's not a lot of play-changing at the line, or declaring [which player is] the Mike linebacker, or holding the ball because no one's open and trying to make something happen. It's less playmaking than straight execution. You go through your reads and there's somewhere to go with the ball."

That's the part that's hard (conceptually) as a fan when we don't see an audible. They simply aren't desinged for it as much.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

That's the part that's hard (conceptually) as a fan when we don't see an audible. They simply aren't desinged for it as much.

Yeah.

In Soviet Kubiak. Play Changes Self!

 

[ObsiWan]

That's the part that's hard (conceptually) as a fan when we don't see an audible. They simply aren't desinged for it as much.

Soooo... when a play doesn't work that means someone didn't see the open guy or didn't pick the right cutback lane...right?

I mean, if we've called a run and the defense brings nine guys up, I just don't see the advantage of not checking into a quick slant to A.J. or O.D....

the mind boggles

 

[disaacks3]

Soooo... when a play doesn't work that means someone didn't see the open guy or didn't pick the right cutback lane...right?

I mean, if we've called a run and the defense brings nine guys up, I just don't see the advantage of not checking into a quick slant to A.J. or O.D....

the mind boggles

You're assuming that isn't a potential option on the play...without yelling out signals.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Soooo... when a play doesn't work that means someone didn't see the open guy or didn't pick the right cutback lane...right?

I mean, if we've called a run and the defense brings nine guys up, I just don't see the advantage of not checking into a quick slant to A.J. or O.D....

the mind boggles

You're making a huge assumption that just because the base play is a run that the reads can't morph the play into a pass. From what they've said about the system, that's part of the play design. Of course, they've also said that when there's a lead and the other team is loading up the box, they believe they can run on those fronts AND that's when they can pop long ones.

But back to the original point... Remember a few years ago against the Seahawks when AJ scored on that great pass on the 2nd or 3rd play of the game? IIRC, that was a called run BUT when they read man-to-man on AJ, they shifted the entire play to a pass. That was part of their game-plan for that game, whenever the Seahawks go man-to-man on AJ, make them pay.

The whole thing is that it doesn't have to be a big production to shift from one play to the other.

 

[paycheck71]

You're making a huge assumption that just because the base play is a run that the reads can't morph the play into a pass. From what they've said about the system, that's part of the play design. Of course, they've also said that when there's a lead and the other team is loading up the box, they believe they can run on those fronts AND that's when they can pop long ones.

But back to the original point... Remember a few years ago against the Seahawks when AJ scored on that great pass on the 2nd or 3rd play of the game? IIRC, that was a called run BUT when they read man-to-man on AJ, they shifted the entire play to a pass. That was part of their game-plan for that game, whenever the Seahawks go man-to-man on AJ, make them pay.

The whole thing is that it doesn't have to be a big production to shift from one play to the other.

Peyton Manning takes offense to this. But I honestly do wonder how many times he doesn't even change the play after all that pre-snap action.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Peyton Manning takes offense to this. But I honestly do wonder how many times he doesn't even change the play after all that pre-snap action.

I think a lot of it is just for show, trying to get into the defender's heads and make them change their defense to something less aggressive or to make them overthink what they're reads are.

 

[steelbtexan]

Arian Foster carried the ball 351 times last yr, but the Texans aren't a running team. LOL

On a side note Gary will be starting his 8th yr as HC. How many more yrs does he get if his team doesn't improve in the playoffs? !0-20 yrs?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Arian Foster carried the ball 351 times last yr, but the Texans aren't a running team. LOL

On a side note Gary will be starting his 8th yr as HC. How many more yrs does he get if his team doesn't improve in the playoffs? !0-20 yrs?

As far as I'm concerned, as long as he's putting a good team on the field, he's getting a chance. He can even have a few off years here and there.

I hate the swinging door, no-patience FO approach to coaches.

 

[thunderkyss]

Arian Foster carried the ball 351 times last yr, but the Texans aren't a running team. LOL

Matt Schaub threw the ball 544 times.


LOL

On a side note Gary will be starting his 8th yr as HC. How many more yrs does he get if his team doesn't improve in the playoffs? !0-20 yrs?

If we get trounced by the Patriots again, even in the regular season, he should be gone.

As a matter of fact, Bob McNair should have had a long talk with Kubiak on that plane ride home ("talk" being a euphemism).

 

[Speedy]

Arian Foster carried the ball 351 times last yr, but the Texans aren't a running team. LOL

Matt Schaub threw the ball 544 times.


LOL

The Texans had the 4th most rushing attempts last season and 18th most pass attempts.

 

[steelbtexan]

As far as I'm concerned, as long as he's putting a good team on the field, he's getting a chance. He can even have a few off years here and there.

I hate the swinging door, no-patience FO approach to coaches.

8 yrs is hardly a swinging door approach.

Seems as though you may be a Kubiak HC for life kida guy.

 

[thunderkyss]

The Texans had the 4th most rushing attempts last season and 18th most pass attempts.

& the 7th rank offense.

 

[infantrycak]

The Texans had the 4th most rushing attempts last season and 18th most pass attempts.

And all four of those teams went to the playoffs.

8 yrs is hardly a swinging door approach.

Seems as though you may be a Kubiak HC for life kida guy.

The list of HCs who have been fired after 3 straight playoff seasons (your scenario) is very short. Even Shottenheimer doesn't qualify. Maybe you can supply some names where doing so has worked out well for a team.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Whoa!! WHOA!!!

Are we suggesting that the Texans DON'T run the ball first? (Although I will concede that on occasions, they have to go the other way)....

The Texans feature their running game to exploit the passing game, irrespective of what the stats are in comparison..


It's a passing league, no?

Most defenses are set up to stop the pass, yes? Those teams are suspect for the Texans running attack.

There are some defenses built to stop the run.... That's when 'Dre and hopefully "dre jr (aka DeAndre Hopkins) and OD run wild on they asses!!!



BOTTOM LINE... Run first team!

 

[thunderkyss]

The Texans feature their running game to exploit the passing game, irrespective of what the stats are in comparison..

I've never seen it that way. Points come out of the passing game, we score a lot of points. We have a back-up QB as a head coach, back up QBs like to throw the ball....

We throw the ball to get the lead & run the ball to keep it.

 

[infantrycak]

BOTTOM LINE... Run first team!

Bottom line Houston is a balanced attack team. Here are the top 4 rushing teams last season.

Seattle Seahawks - 405 passing attempts, 536 rushing attempts - 43% passing.
Washington Redskins - 442 passing attempts, 519 rushing attempts - 46% passing.

Contrast:
Houston Texans - 554 passing attempts, 504 rushing attempts - 53% passing.
New England Patriots - 641 passing attempts, 523 rushing attempts - 55% passing.

Run first teams don't put up over 4000 yds passing year in and year out.

 

[thunderkyss]

Run first teams don't put up over 4000 yds passing year in and year out.

I'm not saying that's elite, I'm just saying. Year in & year out??? That sounds like elite.

But I'm not saying it.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

8 yrs is hardly a swinging door approach.

Seems as though you may be a Kubiak HC for life kida guy.

I'm a stability kinda guy, a Tom Landry, Chuck Noll kinda guy who believes that as long as the coach can stay relevant and produce a winning team, you keep him.

I'm not a fire Bum Phillips after six years and three consecutive trips to the playoffs kinda guy.

 

[infantrycak]

I'm not a fire Bum Phillips after six years and three consecutive trips to the playoffs kinda guy.

Exactly and how well did that work out? - six years and twenty three wins after three trips to the playoffs and the latter was with Moon and Campbell. 32 wins in 3 years v. 26 wins in 6. Get rid of the bum because he didn't make it all the way even if he was going up against the AFC team of the decade.

 

[ArTex]

Didnt Texans lead the league in rushing attempts in 2011?

There are basically no run-first teams anymore. ( At least not in the classic sense of RBs getting carries, now more QBs are running the ball themselves)

Texans are a run-HEAVY team for sure.

They're run-first in image because of Kubiak's "vanilla" style not deviating from his gameplan in a way thats attributed to conservative run oriented coaches. But it doesnt necessarily mean its "3 yards & cloud of dust" on field

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Didnt Texans lead the league in rushing attempts in 2011?

Tied for 1st with the Tebow-led Broncos in 2011. We were 4th in 2012 behind Seattle, New England, and Washington. We were 19th and 20th in 2010 and 2011, btw.

 

[eriadoc]

Considering that the teams ahead of the Texans in rushing attempts all have QBs that run, I think it's safe to say the Texans utilize their running back position as much or more than any other team. The Seahawks and Redskins had 32 and 15 more carries than the Texans respectively. I bet Wilson and RGIII ran the ball more than 32 and 15 times last year. Schaub ran it .... what? Once? Badly?

 

[infantrycak]

Considering that the teams ahead of the Texans in rushing attempts all have QBs that run, I think it's safe to say the Texans utilize their running back position as much or more than any other team. The Seahawks and Redskins had 32 and 15 more carries than the Texans respectively. I bet Wilson and RGIII ran the ball more than 32 and 15 times last year. Schaub ran it .... what? Once? Badly?

Given that "all" includes Tom Brady, no.

And so what? Is the thread title "RB first team" so you get to exclude teams designed to have their QB run? That makes no sense. They're still rushing plays.

 

[paycheck71]

Considering that the teams ahead of the Texans in rushing attempts all have QBs that run, I think it's safe to say the Texans utilize their running back position as much or more than any other team. The Seahawks and Redskins had 32 and 15 more carries than the Texans respectively. I bet Wilson and RGIII ran the ball more than 32 and 15 times last year. Schaub ran it .... what? Once? Badly?

That Tom Brady option offense is awesome.

 

[Double Barrel]

I've heard Kubiak himself say they need to establish the run to set up the play-action. I remember this specific question to Kubiak on the radio, and he gave the typical sort of bland answers, but he said they are not a "pass first" team, as well.

And I've heard too many other Texans players make statements that the running game is extremely important aspect of their offense so the play-action and bootlegs are effective. If teams are not biting on the run, then their designed passing plays get less dimensional.

They might not be a so-called "run first" team, but they certainly need to establish a run game to make the rest of the offense balance out.

It's a fine line in definition, and one that I do not think really matters in the end. This offense cannot survive on one aspect (i.e. run vs. pass) alone to be consistently successful week in/week out.

 

[eriadoc]

Given that "all" includes Tom Brady, no.

Forgot about Brady, but he did have 23 carries and 4 TDs last year. My main point is I am not interested in factoring in QB rushes to determine how much of a running team one is. Some may be, and that's cool, but I don't consider it a valid comparison. The Texans are one of the heaviest run oriented teams in the NFL. That said, I posted early in the thread to say that there are no run first NFL teams anymore, so this is all relative.

EDIT - just for the sake of completion, I looked at Schaub. He had 21 carries last year. Who knew? The result was a grand total of -9 yards and zero TDs, so I'm not sure he was running. I think when Carr "ran" like that, they counted them as sacks.

 

[infantrycak]

I've heard Kubiak himself say they need to establish the run to set up the play-action. I remember this specific question to Kubiak on the radio, and he gave the typical sort of bland answers, but he said they are not a "pass first" team, as well.

And I've heard too many other Texans players make statements that the running game is extremely important aspect of their offense so the play-action and bootlegs are effective. If teams are not biting on the run, then their designed passing plays get less dimensional.

They might not be a so-called "run first" team, but they certainly need to establish a run game to make the rest of the offense balance out.

It's a fine line in definition, and one that I do not think really matters in the end. This offense cannot survive on one aspect (i.e. run vs. pass) alone to be consistently successful week in/week out.

Bland answer would be exactly what it was. Fact is the Texans led the league in passing with a prolific play action passing game in which if memory serves Schaub put up 4770 yds while having the 30th ranked rushing O. Schaub gets away with it because despite being a sloth he sells the play fake as well as anyone and sells every play. Watch how many QBs actually bother to bootleg out after handing the ball off - it is very few.

That said, I posted early in the thread to say that there are no run first NFL teams anymore, so this is all relative.

That I agree with. There are no true run first teams anymore.

EDIT - just for the sake of completion, I looked at Schaub. He had 21 carries last year. Who knew? The result was a grand total of -9 yards and zero TDs, so I'm not sure he was running. I think when Carr "ran" like that, they counted them as sacks.

I saw that as well and don't understand the stats there.

 

[Double Barrel]

Bland answer would be exactly what it was. Fact is the Texans led the league in passing with a prolific play action passing game in which if memory serves Schaub put up 4770 yds while having the 30th ranked rushing O. Schaub gets away with it because despite being a sloth he sells the play fake as well as anyone and sells every play. Watch how many QBs actually bother to bootleg out after handing the ball off - it is very few.

Understood and agree.

The Texans are neither a "pass first" nor a "run first" team. I think there is an inherent logic flaw for fans to demand that they be either/or. This offense is about balance and different aspects complement each other.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Forgot about Brady, but he did have 23 carries and 4 TDs last year. My main point is I am not interested in factoring in QB rushes to determine how much of a running team one is. Some may be, and that's cool, but I don't consider it a valid comparison. The Texans are one of the heaviest run oriented teams in the NFL. That said, I posted early in the thread to say that there are no run first NFL teams anymore, so this is all relative.

EDIT - just for the sake of completion, I looked at Schaub. He had 21 carries last year. Who knew? The result was a grand total of -9 yards and zero TDs, so I'm not sure he was running. I think when Carr "ran" like that, they counted them as sacks.

They count kneel downs as rushing attempts in the stats.

 

[ObsiWan]

EDIT - just for the sake of completion, I looked at Schaub. He had 21 carries last year. Who knew? The result was a grand total of -9 yards and zero TDs, so I'm not sure he was running. I think when Carr "ran" like that, they counted them as sacks.

When the QB takes a knee to end the half or the game, those are rushing attempts per the stat masters.

 

[Wolf]

I wonder how many of the rushes were 2nd and long or 3rd and long draw plays that we know so well

 

[steelbtexan]

The Texans pass the ball to get ahead and run the ball to kill the clock/put the game away.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I wonder how many of the rushes were 2nd and long or 3rd and long draw plays that we know so well

I was planning on taking a look at that and never got around to it.

 

[Surreal McCoy]

I'm a stability kinda guy, a Tom Landry, Chuck Noll kinda guy who believes that as long as the coach can stay relevant and produce a winning team, you keep him.

I'm not a fire Bum Phillips after six years and three consecutive trips to the playoffs kinda guy.

MSR

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm a stability kinda guy, a Tom Landry, Chuck Noll kinda guy who believes that as long as the coach can stay relevant and produce a winning team, you keep him.

I'm not a fire Bum Phillips after six years and three consecutive trips to the playoffs kinda guy.

This is where we differ, I want a HC that has the abilty to win a Lombardi. If a HC hasn't won a SB in a decade, when the avg HC lifespan is 4-5 yrs odds of that HC ever winning a SB are slim. It would be time to change HC. IMHO

Gary is considered to be a QB guru, the QB's has won championships with are Montana/Young and Elway. Walsh developed Montana, Walsh/Shanahan developed Young and Shanahan developed Elway. In todays game Shanny is in the procees of Developing RG3. Who has Gary developed?

BTW, the Bum vs Landry/Noll etc, how many championships did Bum win? Blasphemy? LOL

I get what you are saying, you like a comfort factor in your HC's. I'm a risk taker who's only goal is to win and by win I mean win it all. These are 2 distinctively different personality types. BoB appears to have your type of personality and that is all that really matters.

I want you to know that I respect your position on this subject, but after almost a decade you should know what you've got in Gary and it's almost time to move on. He's got 2 more yrs to get it done or he's gone if I were BoB, depending on how he does this yr.

 

[paycheck71]

The Texans pass the ball to get ahead and run the ball to kill the clock/put the game away.

Seems fairly obvious, yet we're on page 2 of this thread, and IIRC there was a 10+ page thread last summer on the same subject.

 

[ObsiWan]

This is where we differ, I want a HC that has the abilty to win a Lombardi. If a HC hasn't won a SB in a decade, when the avg HC lifespan is 4-5 yrs odds of that HC ever winning a SB are slim. It would be time to change HC. IMHO

Gary is considered to be a QB guru, the QB's has won championships with are Montana/Young and Elway. Walsh developed Montana, Walsh/Shanahan developed Young and Shanahan developed Elway. In todays game Shanny is in the procees of Developing RG3. Who has Gary developed?

BTW, the Bum vs Landry/Noll etc, how many championships did Bum win? Blasphemy? LOL

I get what you are saying, you like a comfort factor in your HC's. I'm a risk taker who's only goal is to win and by win I mean win it all. These are 2 distinctively different personality types. BoB appears to have your type of personality and that is all that really matters.

I want you to know that I respect your position on this subject, but after almost a decade you should know what you've got in Gary and it's almost time to move on. He's got 2 more yrs to get it done or he's gone if I were BoB, depending on how he does this yr.

Okay, I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from SteelB. I'm more in the camp of TPN because I like stability. In my experience stability bears more consistent fruit than impatience.

And if winning the Lombardi is your primary pass/fail criteria then Cowher is a Fail since it took him 15 years to finally win one.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

This is where we differ, I want a HC that has the abilty to win a Lombardi. If a HC hasn't won a SB in a decade, when the avg HC lifespan is 4-5 yrs odds of that HC ever winning a SB are slim. It would be time to change HC. IMHO

Gary is considered to be a QB guru, the QB's has won championships with are Montana/Young and Elway. Walsh developed Montana, Walsh/Shanahan developed Young and Shanahan developed Elway. In todays game Shanny is in the procees of Developing RG3. Who has Gary developed?

BTW, the Bum vs Landry/Noll etc, how many championships did Bum win? Blasphemy? LOL

I get what you are saying, you like a comfort factor in your HC's. I'm a risk taker who's only goal is to win and by win I mean win it all. These are 2 distinctively different personality types. BoB appears to have your type of personality and that is all that really matters.

I want you to know that I respect your position on this subject, but after almost a decade you should know what you've got in Gary and it's almost time to move on. He's got 2 more yrs to get it done or he's gone if I were BoB, depending on how he does this yr.

We BOTH have the same goal. We both believe what we believe because we think it's the best and quickest way to start winning SBs. I'm not backing Kubiak because of a comfort factor, I'm backing him because I think he gives us the best chance to win a lot of SBs.

This is where we're always going to differ. Most of the owners in this league are risk-takers like you and almost all of those owners have failed to win a SB because they pull the trigger too quickly.

Bum Phillips never won a SB because he wasn't given enough of a chance. If he'd been able to stay here a few more years, he might have brought one home. But the owner got impatient and canned him. They could be hoisting SB trophies in Cleveland right now but they ditched Belichik too quickly.

And say what you want about Kubiak as a QB guru but he has developed a potent offense. Many times, coordinator gurus are brought in as HCs and then their side of the ball never really develops. Billick, an offensive "genius" from the Greene Minnesota days, goes to Baltimore and never really can get the offense in gear. Gruden goes to Tampa Bay and never does get the offense going like he had it in Oakland. Dungy never developed a defense in Indy anywhere close to what he had in Tampa Bay. And those guys WON SBs.

I think we have a good chance of winning a SB with this team and with this coaching staff and I know that you don't and never have.

 

[eriadoc]

Gary is considered to be a QB guru, the QB's has won championships with are Montana/Young and Elway. Walsh developed Montana, Walsh/Shanahan developed Young and Shanahan developed Elway. In todays game Shanny is in the procees of Developing RG3. Who has Gary developed?

I am no Kubiak apologist, as most of the Kool-Aid drinkers will tell you. I've been a critic of his since the second 6-10 season. However, I always bring this up when someone says what you've said here. It never seems to sink it, but it's no less true.

Kubiak is known as a QB guru because of what he's accomplished with QBs. Yes, Steve Young was a great QB before Kubiak came along. But Young had his best season ever under Kubiak's tutelage, won his only Super Bowl, and posted a record QB rating that stood for a while. Yes, Elway was a great QB before Kubiak came along, and went to the Super Bowl a few times. But he had his best years under Kubiak and won two Super Bowls. Then you have the crappy QBs that played under Kubiak and had their best years - Jake Plummer and Brian Griese. Jake Plummer played way over his head under Kubiak and so did Griese. Hell, Griese was even named to the Pro Bowl under Kubiak. Even the disaster that was David Carr was reigned in and improved under Kubiak, and that was a pretty hopeless project by the time Kubiak got hold of him.

I do think that as a result, Kubiak thinks he can win with lesser QBs now. I'd rather see a supremely talented QB paired with Kubiak, but I cannot deny the man his due.

 

[HOU-TEX]

 

[leebigeztx]

They were beat down 3 times last yr and every time that happened,the other team stopped the run 1st.Once they sztopped the run,it took away playaction and took them off schedule and the team couldn't respond.If they were not a run 1st team,getting their run game stopped wouldn't mean much. I hate to do this,but schaubs inability to make downfield throws inside the pocket without playaction restricts them. In those 3 beadowns,that's what happen and it will continue to happen until martin,posey,hopkins,or jean can show they can beat coverage badly. If its close,schaub will not throw guys open.

 

[thunderkyss]

If a HC hasn't won a SB in a decade, when the avg HC lifespan is 4-5 yrs odds of that HC ever winning a SB are slim. It would be time to change HC. IMHO

Gary has 3 more seasons then. Let's see what happens.

Say, how long did it take Cowher to win his Super Bowl?

 

[steelbtexan]

Okay, I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from SteelB. I'm more in the camp of TPN because I like stability. In my experience stability bears more consistent fruit than impatience.

And if winning the Lombardi is your primary pass/fail criteria then Cowher is a Fail since it took him 15 years to finally win one.

Impatience? going on 8 yrs?

Gary is probably the 2nd most tenured HC in the NFL, behind Coughlin and Coughlin was in jeopardy of being fired 2 yrs after winning a SB.

Texans fans have been quite patient. IMHO

Lets see how this yr plays out. I'm ready for some football.

 

[drs23]

Impatience? going on 8 yrs?

Gary is probably the 2nd most tenured HC in the NFL, behind Coughlin and Coughlin was in jeopardy of being fired 2 yrs after winning a SB.

Texans fans have been quite patient. IMHO

Lets see how this yr plays out. I'm ready for some football.

You and I both steelb. Come on July 26th. I've got the football jones really bad!

 

[hollywood_texan]

They were beat down 3 times last yr and every time that happened,the other team stopped the run 1st.Once they sztopped the run,it took away playaction and took them off schedule and the team couldn't respond.If they were not a run 1st team,getting their run game stopped wouldn't mean much. I hate to do this,but schaubs inability to make downfield throws inside the pocket without playaction restricts them. In those 3 beadowns,that's what happen and it will continue to happen until martin,posey,hopkins,or jean can show they can beat coverage badly. If its close,schaub will not throw guys open.

I believe you are referring to the losses against the Packers and the Patriots. Those losses clearly demonstrate a trend of offensive failures to get things started early against teams that have premier QBs who get hot early. From my perspective, that issue has very little to do with Schaub or the running game, but Kubiak's generally unimaginative and predictable play calling.

Repeatedly, I see that the Texans offense incapable of scoring TDs when it matters the most, such as early in the game before things get out of hand, or closing out a tough game against a top tier team. I lay this on Kubiak's coaching of the offense.

Statistics can be highly deceptive and completely misleading. Simply put, to win big football games at any level, scoring TDs when your opponent can least afford giving up those points is the key to success. I am not sure how to capture that in a statistic. But, that means the offense is successful at the most critical moments during the game.

I do not have the time to break all this down with an in dept analysis, but from my view point, meaning, from just watching of Texans games live, and that is it, the Texans offense struggles mightily when success is needed the most. The three games you mention clearly demonstrate that.

Having said all that, I don't know if McNair should get rid of Kubiak because he has a lot of strengths. I am probably going to surprise a lot people with this statement, but if Kubiak innovates his offensive coaching style and becomes more robust in his play calling, the Texans have the roster to win the Super Bowl.

Hopefully in McNair's review of Kubiak, he discusses that with Kubiak. Bottom line, the Houston Texans are very close to a championship.

 

[thunderkyss]

I believe you are referring to the losses against the Packers and the Patriots. Those losses clearly demonstrate a trend of offensive failures to get things started early against teams that have premier QBs who get hot early. From my perspective, that issue has very little to do with Schaub or the running game, but Kubiak's generally unimaginative and predictable play calling.

I think I agree with most of what you said in the first paragraph, but think about it in a different way. The Packers & Patriots are highly efficient scoring teams. We're not. I would bet they score more per possession than just about any other team. We score a lot of points too, but we go about it a different way. Teams like that & the Peyton Manning led Colts pressure other teams to score on every possession, because you "know" if you don't, they will.

They pretty much make you one dimensional before the game even starts. Other teams will try to slow the game down, but it usually ends up in a shooting match that they win 8 out of 10 times. Those are the step on your neck teams, because they don't have a defense that can "make up" for not scoring on offense.

We got behind against those teams & couldn't slow the game down enough to get the win. & you don't want to give them extra possessions. Which we did.

Repeatedly, I see that the Texans offense incapable of scoring TDs when it matters the most, such as early in the game before things get out of hand, or closing out a tough game against a top tier team. I lay this on Kubiak's coaching of the offense.

But we won 12 games last year. One of those after we gave up a safety & trailed for a little more than a quarter. That was against the Peyton Manning Broncos... & we stomped a hole in their butts. Against Detroit & Jacksonville, trailing most of the game, we came from behind & won.

So I wouldn't say it's unimaginative on Kubiak's part. We just ran up against teams that played/coached better than we did that day. It happens. It happened to the Patriots & the Packers 4 times in 2012, same as us. That's football.