Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Life Without Schaub: What if?

CloakNNNdagger

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Interesting to look at "what might have been"............and who would have been our QB, if history had taken a different turn.

Jets were mad about Matt Schaub

QB who could've saved Gang from Favre, Sanchez will instead be Monday foe

Updated: October 6, 2012, 1:06 PM ET


FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- On Monday night, the football-watching world will get a chance to see the player the New York Jets once hoped would be their quarterback of the future.

Matt Schaub of the Houston Texans.

What, you thought it was a snarky reference to Mark Sanchez?

In 2006, the Jets were hot for Schaub, a promising young backup with the Atlanta Falcons. With Chad Pennington coming off his second shoulder operation, the Jets' new regime at the time -- general manager Mike Tannenbaum and coach Eric Mangini -- wanted a long-term solution at quarterback.

Little-known fact: They targeted Schaub, offering defensive end John Abraham to the Falcons in a straight-up deal, Mangini revealed.

"We tried like hell to get him," Mangini said recently in a phone interview.

Schaub was playing behind Michael Vick and had started only two games in two seasons, but his potential intrigued the Jets. At the time, it seemed like a lopsided proposal. Not many teams would consider dealing a proven pass-rusher in his prime, but the Jets didn't want to commit to Abraham, who had the franchise tag, had some off-the-field issues and was seeking a monster contract.

The negotiations turned contentious. Eventually, the Jets traded Abraham to the Falcons for the 29th pick in the draft, which Atlanta acquired from the Denver Broncos. The Jets used the pick to draft Nick Mangold after trying unsuccessfully to deal it to the San Diego Chargers for running back Michael Turner -- another little-known fact.

It's hard to second-guess the move because Mangold is one of the top centers in the league, but what if?

What if Mangini had pried Schaub away from the Falcons? The alternate history probably would've unfolded like this:

Mangini said the Jets would've kept Pennington in 2006, which turned out to be a terrific year for him. In 2007, it probably would've been Pennington and Schaub. But by 2008, it would've been Schaub's show.

Which means there never would've been a trade for Brett Favre in 2008.

And there never would've been a need to draft Sanchez in 2009.

Chances are, Schaub would be playing quarterback for the Jets, not the undefeated Texans, on Monday night at MetLife Stadium.
Click to expand...

REST OF THE STORY
 
So where's the "what if" part for the Texans if we didn't trade for Schaub? Would have we kept Carr around? Would we have drafted Brady Quinn? Would Sage have taken over the starting role? What you think?
 
dream_team said:
So where's the "what if" part for the Texans if we didn't trade for Schaub? Would have we kept Carr around? Would we have drafted Brady Quinn? Would Sage have taken over the starting role? What you think?
Click to expand...

I think Carr would have stayed around. We would have drafted someone like Trent Edwards in the second round, assuming we didn't draft Kevin Kolb in the first instead of Amobi Okoye. Let's say we went with the Kolb option.

There would have been an open competition for the QB position and I think Sage would have won it. Sage would have gotten injured during the season and Kubiak would have given Carr one more shot... and he failed. So Kubiak would have brought Kolb in and Kolb would have done OK.

The next year, Carr would have been released and again we go with the open competition at QB. This time, Kolb wins and he's anointed the future of the franchise. And he would have gotten injured and the next few seasons would have been juggling Kolb and Sage. And Kubiak would have been fired after 4 seasons.

And then in 2010, we would have a new coach and we'd have drafted Tim Tebow. And now, in 2013, we'd have another new coach and we'd be looking at Geno Smith or EJ Manuel.
 
That's a disturbing chain of events you project pneck. Let's go all the way back to the carr selection over JULIUS FREAKING PEPPERS. If that selection doesn't happen Schaub probably isn't here either.
 
powda said:
That's a disturbing chain of events you project pneck. Let's go all the way back to the carr selection over JULIUS FREAKING PEPPERS. If that selection doesn't happen Schaub probably isn't here either.
Click to expand...
What if left tackle Tony Boseli had healed enough to start from game one? Maybe Carr would not have set record for most QB sacks ever.
 
badboy said:
What if left tackle Tony Boseli had healed enough to start from game one? Maybe Carr would not have set record for most QB sacks ever.
Click to expand...

And or if willie roaf had passed his physical.
 
So, this could be us?

sanchez.gif
 
Interesting article. Anything that undermines the Jets is a good thing.

powda said:
That's a disturbing chain of events you project pneck. Let's go all the way back to the carr selection over JULIUS FREAKING PEPPERS. If that selection doesn't happen Schaub probably isn't here either.
Click to expand...

People forget that 2002 was a terrible draft for QB's. There were no options. David Garrard was the best QB out of that class.
 
Brisco_County said:
Interesting article. Anything that undermines the Jets is a good thing.



People forget that 2002 was a terrible draft for QB's. There were no options. David Garrard was the best QB out of that class.
Click to expand...

Tony Banks for a year?
 
dream_team said:
So where's the "what if" part for the Texans if we didn't trade for Schaub? Would have we kept Carr around? Would we have drafted Brady Quinn? Would Sage have taken over the starting role? What you think?
Click to expand...
I think the Texans would have still released Carr, Kubiak was through with him. The Texans would have traded for Jake Plummer who would have "un-retired" to play under his former OC. And the Texans would have drafted a QB at some point. Don't know who or when.
 
Lucky said:
I think the Texans would have still released Carr, Kubiak was through with him. The Texans would have traded for Jake Plummer who would have "un-retired" to play under his former OC. And the Texans would have drafted a QB at some point. Don't know who or when.
Click to expand...

IIRC, Jake retired while still under contract with the Bucs (due to Gruden's "I'll Stash 12 QBs!" strategy.

I don't think Jake would have been available even if he un-retired, he'd be property of the Bucs (maybe there was a one-year rule, where he sits out for a year and then become a FA????).

This rule, IIRC, is to keep a disgruntled player from simply "retiring" and then un-retiring so that he could be a FA and play for some other team.
 
GP said:
IIRC, Jake retired while still under contract with the Bucs (due to Gruden's "I'll Stash 12 QBs!" strategy.

I don't think Jake would have been available even if he un-retired, he'd be property of the Bucs (maybe there was a one-year rule, where he sits out for a year and then become a FA????).

This rule, IIRC, is to keep a disgruntled player from simply "retiring" and then un-retiring so that he could be a FA and play for some other team.
Click to expand...

That's why we would have had to trade for him, like Lucky mentioned. Probably wouldn't have cost much to get Jake Plummer at that point in his career.
 
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.
 
pirbroke said:
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.
Click to expand...

The Andy Reid theory on QB's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
steelbtexan said:
The Andy Reid theory on QB's.
Click to expand...

By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.
 
ChampionTexan said:
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... let's check this out.

Reid's first year was 99. Here are the QBs he selected in drafts.

1999. Donovan McNabb - 1st round/2nd overall
2001. AJ Feely - 5th round/155
2004. Andy Hall - 6th round/185
2007. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round/36
2010. Mike Kafka - 4th round /122
2012. Nick Foles - 3rd round/88

I'm not seeing any huge pattern there unless he was going to draft his next QB in the 7th round.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Hmmmm... let's check this out.

Reid's first year was 99. Here are the QBs he selected in drafts.

1999. Donovan McNabb - 1st round/2nd overall
2001. AJ Feely - 5th round/155
2004. Andy Hall - 6th round/185
2007. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round/36
2010. Mike Kafka - 4th round /122
2012. Nick Foles - 3rd round/88

I'm not seeing any huge pattern there unless he was going to draft his next QB in the 7th round.
Click to expand...

So, the only QB he selected in the first round was an all pro. The only ones he took in the first two round were starters. Sure beats the hell out of David Carr number one overall. He might not have found late round gems, but that'd be a decent average for a GM.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
powda said:
Tony Banks for a year?
Click to expand...

We would have won more games. Might have jacked up our draft position the next year and cost us Andre Johnson though.

I love "What if?" conversations but the further you get from the moment you change the more chance that change has to damage something that you wouldn't want to change.

But even if we took Carr (and there's no good reason to take him over Peppers) Banks should have started in 2002. That's all on that regime. At least McNair has the excuse of being ignorant at that point. Casserly/Capers/Palmer all should have known better.
 
Hervoyel said:
But even if we took Carr (and there's no good reason to take him over Peppers) Banks should have started in 2002. That's all on that regime. At least McNair has the excuse of being ignorant at that point. Casserly/Capers/Palmer all should have known better.
Click to expand...
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.
 
ChampionTexan said:
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.
Click to expand...

I was talking about Reid drafting a QB for the future when he already had his starter. Feely/Kolb and Foles are examples. Then when Vick/McNabb etc... get injured the backup steps in usually plays well for a few games and gets moved for a high draft pick.

Reid always has 2 above avg QB's on his roster. See Kansas City Traded for Alex Smith and signed Chase Daniel in FA. He prioritizes the QB position, which is quite smart. IMHO

BTW, I was kind of hoping the Texans would sign Daniels in FA. He has alot of potential.
 
steelbtexan said:
BTW, I was kind of hoping the Texans would sign Daniels in FA. He has alot of potential.
Click to expand...
Gary Kubiak, QB guru, should be able to draft and develop guys without paying good money to so-so backups (see: Orlovsky, Dan).
 
pirbroke said:
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.
Click to expand...

This would never work, because you would not be trying to find a great QB, and would then accidentally land a Tom Brady on your first attempt. Life is wacky. :rake:
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I think Carr would have stayed around.
Click to expand...

No way Carr would have stayed. He was most definitely in no position to be starting for an NFL team.

I think we would have stayed with Sage & drafted the likes of John Beck, Brian Brohm, or Chad Henne. We may have taken a flyer as well on guys like Tyler Thigpen, Stephen McGee, & Joe Webb.

These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.
 
thunderkyss said:
No way Carr would have stayed. He was most definitely in no position to be starting for an NFL team.

I think we would have stayed with Sage & drafted the likes of John Beck, Brian Brohm, or Chad Henne. We may have taken a flyer as well on guys like Tyler Thigpen, Stephen McGee, & Joe Webb.

These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.
Click to expand...

Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?

6 QB's, 10 teams, 15382 yds, 70 TD's, 76 INT's

Schaub - 20911 yds, 114 TD's, 64 INT's
 
pirbroke said:
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line.
Click to expand...

If it were that easy, you & I wouldn't be working for a living.


Lucky said:
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.
Click to expand...

Not to mention as a rookie, he looked the part. David's problems didn't start till later.


infantrycak said:
Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?

6 QB's, 10 teams, 15382 yds, 70 TD's, 76 INT's

Schaub - 20911 yds, 114 TD's, 64 INT's
Click to expand...

When I said "we" I meant we as Texans' fans, not Matt Schaub fans. We probably wouldn't have gaudy QB numbers for mental masturbation, but we'd have probably missed the play-offs just the same through 2010.

Then again, this is a system & Kubiak is a QB Guru. One of those guys may have very well thrived here & Schaub may not have done so well with GangGreen.... who knows?
 
thunderkyss said:
When I said "we" I meant we as Texans' fans, not Matt Schaub fans.
Click to expand...

Here I took we to mean the Texans. Given the ample opportunities of the players you mentioned and their pitiful results I see zero support for your assertion.

We probably wouldn't have gaudy QB numbers for mental masturbation, but we'd have probably missed the play-offs just the same through 2010.
Click to expand...

What kind of goofiness is this? We could have started a UDFA through 2010 and likely missed the play-offs each year. Doesn't make the QB performance the same.

Then again, this is a system ...
Click to expand...

This has to be one of the most trite and irrelevant statements around. EVERY NFL team has a system. ALL 32 teams are a system.
 
infantrycak said:
What kind of goofiness is this? We could have started a UDFA through 2010 and likely missed the play-offs each year. Doesn't make the QB performance the same.
Click to expand...

Y'know, for a lawyer, your reading comprehension skills are sub-par. I didn't say anything about QB performance.

I said we could have gone through a half dozen QB prospects trying to find a good one & this team would have been just as successful. Missing the play-offs through the first 4 years of Kubiak, 3 years of Schaub & a whole lot of baby steps.

I'd love to have seen Chad Henne develop under Kubiak, in Kubiak's system. He's doing pretty good with a revolving door of coaches, schemes, targets.... the kids a player. I'd have loved to have seen Skelton here, or Kolb, or yes.... Tyler Thigpen.

None of those guys would probably be able to do what Schaub has. I never said otherwise. But what they lack in wit, they'd have made up in athleticism.
 
thunderkyss said:
Y'know, for a lawyer, your reading comprehension skills are sub-par. I didn't say anything about QB performance.
Click to expand...

Try re-reading the first clause of your sentence I quoted.

Treating "just as successful" = anything short of "missing the playoffs" is ridiculous.
 
What if what if mannnn !!!!!!!!!


we could of drafted

Matt scahub
Ben rothersburger
Julluis Peppers

ed reed
Revis

Troy polomau


and on and on and on
 
Lucky said:
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.
Click to expand...

Well, Couch was the only one of those to start on an expansion franchise (though Aikman's first season the Cowboys could have passed for one). I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready. It's not like the Tim Couch example wasn't pretty recent at that stage. All they would have had to do was point to Cleveland and say "You don't want to see that happen to our new franchise QB do you?"

Of course the sensible way for the Texans to avoid that situation would have been to draft Peppers and build their OL and DL before trying to draft the face of the franchise QB. I like to think that if the same situation came up today McNair would know better than to sign off on that plan.
 
Hervoyel said:
Well, Couch was the only one of those to start on an expansion franchise (though Aikman's first season the Cowboys could have passed for one). I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready. It's not like the Tim Couch example wasn't pretty recent at that stage. All they would have had to do was point to Cleveland and say "You don't want to see that happen to our new franchise QB do you?"

Of course the sensible way for the Texans to avoid that situation would have been to draft Peppers and build their OL and DL before trying to draft the face of the franchise QB. I like to think that if the same situation came up today McNair would know better than to sign off on that plan.
Click to expand...

You would hope BoB would've learned.

Regardless of the sacks, Carr would've never been successful. He wasn't a student of the game and had a poor work ethic. That's a receipe for failure.
 
infantrycak said:
Try re-reading the first clause of your sentence I quoted.

Treating "just as successful" = anything short of "missing the playoffs" is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

You're wrong, plain & simple. Think about it before you speak again. You're only hurting yourself.

thunderkyss said:
These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.
Click to expand...

"We"

As in the Texans would probably have enjoyed as much success from 2007 to 2013. In the context of the Texans, success is winning games, winning the division, getting to the play offs, & winning in the play offs.

Despite all of Schaub's yards & stats, the Texans have not been winning (until recently) & that is what everyone has been saying. So when we're talking about winning, when we're talking about play offs as "success" we could have put Mark Sanchez back there & been just as successful (maybe more) between 2007 & 2010.

& I'm using Sanchez as a QB who's in over his head, where Chad Henne & Kevin Kolb are "probably" better QBs, even though their teams have not had the "success" that teams led by Sanchez has had.
 
Hervoyel said:
I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready. new franchise QB do you?"
Click to expand...

I don't know if it would have been a good thing for the Texans to say Carr wasn't ready.

It would have been a better sell, to say the team wasn't ready for a rookie QB. & with the sack numbers we saw, I'm sure the fans would have understood.
 
"Hindsight is always 20-20. But looking back it's still a bit fuzzy."
~ Dave Mustaine
 
Hervoyel said:
I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready.
Click to expand...

I remember being happy they would start him. I was thinking he needed to learn on the go and it would help him. One of the first season games was against the chargers when Carr was sacked something like a dozen times and beat to hell. My opinion changed. Capers, Casserly, and Palmer castrated Carr. He wouldve never been great ,but he had a chance to be average.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
Even Carr asked for better lineman and the regime just shrugged it off. They had a decent run game with Domanik Davis and there was very minimal improvement. Can't say that Carr would've been better but by the time he got a run game, dude was shell shocked so we will never know.
 
Funny conversation. I was just wondering today how hard the rest of the team is really working in the off-season if they don't feel like Schaub can get the job done. I wonder if they are just taking care of themselves, and not really striving to get to the next level since it seems improbable they have the right QB to take the next step?
 
El Tejano said:
Even Carr asked for better lineman and the regime just shrugged it off. They had a decent run game with Domanik Davis and there was very minimal improvement. Can't say that Carr would've been better but by the time he got a run game, dude was shell shocked so we will never know.
Click to expand...

How many offensive linemen came through here during the Carr years? & while they never spent a first round pick on one, they did draft Chester Pitts in the second.

I don't know that they "shrugged" it off. They tried to fix the OL. Maybe they didn't draft enough in the first two rounds, but they were trying to build a team.

Our OL today has only one guy drafted in the first three rounds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top