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Football Gameplan's 2012 Texans vs Dolphins
- Thread starter EmDiggy
- Start date
drs23
Veteran
Good to see you back with your predictions again this year Diggy. I can't watch it at work but SURELY you picked us to skin some Phins, huh?
Señor Stan
El Guapo
All in all a solid preview.
That being said, there is no way to call Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas "even" with Arian Foster and Ben Tate. That is insane.
That being said, there is no way to call Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas "even" with Arian Foster and Ben Tate. That is insane.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I like the part where all the position advantage checkboxes are filled in on the Texans' side.
EmDiggy
Waterboy
LOL! Thanks Drs! Glad to be back! You know I picked the Cougars
Señor Stan;2007522 said:
Thanks SS! I think you can place Bush/Thomas in that offense and you won't miss a beat.
Like I said, I'm at work and can't listen to it. Have to catch it when I get home tonight but...
Diggy, did you really say that? Well that's just...
Yep..and I approve that statement #Hunt2012
Its crazy when you look at the visual of where teams have the advantage..puts everything in perspective doesn't it?
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Nice to see you Em and thanks for Video.
Go Texans!!!
Go Texans!!!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
LOL - the combined conversation time for 32 teams would be under 32 seconds.
I'd set the over/under on how many teams would take Bush over Tate at 2.5.
LOL! Thanks Drs! Glad to be back! You know I picked the Cougars
Thanks SS! I think you can place Bush/Thomas in that offense and you won't miss a beat.
Yep..and I approve that statement #Hunt2012
Its crazy when you look at the visual of where teams have the advantage..puts everything in perspective doesn't it?
Since you owned up to saying Bush/Thomas = Foster/Tate I might watch you in the future but I'll pass for this week.
Thomas has been underwhelming and Bush has one "solid" year under his belt. Foster could run in any scheme as either a feature back or receiving out of the backfield and Tate could be a feature back in most schemes. Bush couldn't run in our offense because he is a dancer and to say that Thomas could hold Tate's (let alone Foster's) jock strap means you must have been drunk. Knowing that, I can't take anything you say about this game seriously and if you're right it must be pure coincidence. I'll check back next week though because I think you generally do a pretty good job. I'll chalk this one up to you missing the preseason.
Mike
EmDiggy
Waterboy
Thanks for finding that! That's the point I was making in reference to what has been said on the other texans forum not this one.. You guys can make rational debate as opposed to the other.. But thanks for finding this for me
EmDiggy
Waterboy
I'm sorry, you can't honestly say that Talent-wise Miami isn't equal to the Texans RBs. You're also undervaluing what they drafted in Lamar Miller, who is better than Forsett. Bush in the Texans Off would put up similar numbers as Foster, Foster in the Dolphins Off would put up similar numbers as Bush. Bush is more explosive than Foster, but Foster is more powerful.
Its a wash honestly and unbiasedly
Wow.
Reggie bush is not = to Arian foster and I can't believe you are trying to make that argument. You are using explosiveness as your argument and that's just one aspect to being a rb.
Arian is bigger, has better vision, has a better feel for running the ball and he's still explosive enough to gash teams for really long runs.
Reggie is more "explosive" than a lot of rb's in the league but that doesn't make him better.
I'll grant you that the offensive system and talent help Arian more than what bush has in Miami, but Reggie couldnt even be special in new Orleans in an offense that was PERFECT for his skill set.
And now you want the texans world to take you seriously when you say that bush, the other guy and rookie Lamar miller are equal to what we field on Sundays? Gtfo.
Arian is an elite back in the league. Period.
I'd take quite a few backfields over the dlolphins.
The dlolphins backfield is not as good as a lot of teams in the NFL and now they are supposed to be a "wash" with one of the best, if not the best?
Stop it.
corytx8
Rookie
Really? This conversation is over......
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Yes, I can. Reggie Bush's best year was last year where he rushed for 1,086 yards. Before that he hadn't rushed for 600 yards in a single season. Foster has been the starting RB for two seasons. Last year he rushed for 1,224 yards after missing three games. Foster has now had two seasons better than Bush ever has. To compare the two is a joke.
The only production you can compare with Tate and Thomas is last year. Tate rushed for 942 yards compared to Thomas' 581 yards. Again this is vastly in Houston's favor.
Bringing up Lamar Miller is a joke. The #3 RB's will hardly see the field on Sunday if the game is competitive at all.
What do you mean Numbers ALWAYS Lie? Thats ridiculous
Reggie Bush was traded to the Dolphins for a special teamer and a swap of 6th round picks. What do you think Foster would cost someone?
We were offered a 1st for Tate. What do you think someone would offer for Thomas? Anything? You could cut Thomas and it would be unlikely that he would start or even be the #2 on any team
Reggie Bush was traded to the Dolphins for a special teamer and a swap of 6th round picks. What do you think Foster would cost someone?
We were offered a 1st for Tate. What do you think someone would offer for Thomas? Anything? You could cut Thomas and it would be unlikely that he would start or even be the #2 on any team
EmDiggy
Waterboy
You are comparing numbers...not talent.
So, by your account, Emmitt Smith was better than Gayle Sayers or to a lesser extent Bo Jackson? (hint: there's no wrong answer because its all opinion)
I have disagreed with plenty of your takes before, but this just makes me completely question your evaluation skills.
Maybe you believe bush is a caterpillar waiting to turn into a butterfly, but for your analysis of the game you called the backfields a wash.
That's asinine.
You look at this game coming up and you say the dlolphins and texans backfields are a wash?
I don't know why, but it's a little frustrating that you actually took time to put together analysis and came to that conclusion.
Maybe you believe bush is a caterpillar waiting to turn into a butterfly, but for your analysis of the game you called the backfields a wash.
That's asinine.
You look at this game coming up and you say the dlolphins and texans backfields are a wash?
I don't know why, but it's a little frustrating that you actually took time to put together analysis and came to that conclusion.
So basically the dlolphins backfield doesn't have to do anything in the NFL. They are just talented.
I'm curios because most would say that we have one of the better backfields in the league.
Do you put the dolphins combo of bush and Thomas on that same level? As having one of if not the best backfield in the league?
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I am comparing their *production*. If you want to call them equal when nothing Bush has done on the field equates to the *production* Foster has put up in his first two seasons expect to get laughed out of here.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
For more analysis on the subject: http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=32532
I'm honestly trying to think of RB corps around the NFL that would be better or close to the Texans talented 1-2 punch of Foster/Tate. Only ones that come to mind as being close are Carolina with Williams/Stewart/Tolbert, Chicago with Forte/Michael Bush, KC with JC/Hillis/Grey, and maybe Jax or Minny would round out the top 5. Miami doesn't even enter the equation for me.
If we're going 3-deep in the RB depth, I think Carolina would be the top team, and Houston would be #2, but the difference would be that Foster is so much better than any of the Panther's RBs that I would rather have him leading the way. Depth is only good so long as you use it, and I don't really see Forsett or Lamar Miller doing much in this game unless someone gets hurt.
I'm honestly trying to think of RB corps around the NFL that would be better or close to the Texans talented 1-2 punch of Foster/Tate. Only ones that come to mind as being close are Carolina with Williams/Stewart/Tolbert, Chicago with Forte/Michael Bush, KC with JC/Hillis/Grey, and maybe Jax or Minny would round out the top 5. Miami doesn't even enter the equation for me.
If we're going 3-deep in the RB depth, I think Carolina would be the top team, and Houston would be #2, but the difference would be that Foster is so much better than any of the Panther's RBs that I would rather have him leading the way. Depth is only good so long as you use it, and I don't really see Forsett or Lamar Miller doing much in this game unless someone gets hurt.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
What you're effectively arguing is that there's no difference between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf.
Having talent doesn't make you good or productive.
Bo Jackson could have been the greatest RB ever to play the game. He had the talent. But he was nowhere near productive enough to even be in that discussion.
In a 6 year career, Reggie Bush has rushed for 3100 yards and received 2400 yards and scored 23 rushing, 13 receiving, and 4 returning TDs. In a 3 year career (with the first spent mostly on the practice squad), Arian Foster has rushed for 3100 yards and received for 1300 yards and scored 29 rushing, and 4 receiving TDs. Arian Foster has led the league in rushing one time and Reggie Bush has never been in the discussion.
If you're putting together an NFL team right now and you're drafting your RB and you've got the choice of Arian Foster and Reggie Bush, are you telling me that it's a push? Are you telling me you'd have a problem choosing one over the other and that you'd spend more than a fraction of a second considering your options?
Personally, I'd choose Ben Tate over Reggie Bush, let alone Arian Foster.
But, like you said, that's your opinion.
It's just a really questionable opinion.
EmDiggy
Waterboy
I'm strictly and purposely avoiding the obvious argument that is there to be had with regards to the system that the Texans operate in... Its the reason why M.S. never was able to find his "Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis" ever again.. The System makes Ben Tate look like a feature back.. So, in my opinion, Tate is no different than Thomas.
What most don't understand about the "system" is that when you have an exceptional talent, they put up great numbers and their talent supersedes the system (i.e. Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis, Arian Foster, Michael Crabtree at Texas Tech) So I'm giving Foster his props. I also feel that Bush has exceptional talent. 2011 was the 1st time he was given consistent carries from traditional formations and he proved he could handle it...he actually did it at USC as well. They also ran a Pro-style offense (Lot of I-Formation, Ace, Off-set I). In New Orleans, he never got that opportunity.. look at how they are using the trio of backs there now..
My point is that Both teams have two exceptional talents and two decent #2 backs.
Thus, a push
EmDiggy
Waterboy
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I know how you hate numbers (foolish assertion to begin with) but exactly how is Bush more explosive?
Bush - 6 years in the league - 17 runs over 20 yards, 3 over 40 yards.
Foster - 3 years in the league - 20 runs over 20 yards, 5 over 40 yards (with almost 100 less carries).
The wash would be washing off the stank of any comparison between the two cadres.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
But my opinion is questionable?
If you think it's a push between Arian Foster and Reggie Bush, then... yes.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
No he wouldn't.
Bush isn't as a decisive, one cut and go RB as Foster is. You have to have that skill/ability in this offense to be effective. Bush still dances too much and that's counter-productive in this scheme.
Also, as you said yourself, Bush doesn't have the power that Foster has.
I will grant you that, I think, from a breakaway standpoint they might be equivalent. In fact, there was a time that Bush might have had the edge in top-end speed, but with six NFL years on his legs I doubt that is presently the case.
...but I understand, you had to give the Miami fans sommmme reason to tune into the game
Ben Tate is just decent?
He averaged more ypc than Arian did and had about 1000 yards rushing last year???
What does he have to do to upgrade past "decent"?
Have you watched him play?
And you keep saying you feel bush has exceptional talent. I won't argue with you on that. But that has absolutely zero to do with your game analysis.
I think a lot of players in the NFL have exceptional talent. But that doesn't always translate to on field production which is what ultimately matters ya know...
Jmo, but bush is not as good as foster and while he might be faster and more springy, he lacks in other areas that make foster a better back. Vision, patience, strength, balance, pass blocking and having a variety of ways to hurt you. Sweet enough to juke you out of your shoes, big and strong enough to run through tackles, great hand out of the backfield.
Ahmad Bradshaw is a better rb than Reggie bush. Frank gore, McFadden, Charles, mojo, unmotivated Chris Johnson...he'll I'd take most of the leagues starting backs and some back ups over bush. I'd take everyone of our backs all the way to grimes on the practice squad over bush.
Okay... I get it.
Our UnDrafted Free Agent is equivalent to Miami's number 2 overall pick/Heismann Trophy winner... (oh my bad... he had to give that back, didn't he?
)Jackie Chiles
Veteran
EmDiggy, I love watching your previews every week but Ben Tate is waaaaay better than you are giving him credit for. He runs so angry, one of the most entertaining runners in the league, even more so than Foster imo. Someday he's going to be the feature back somewhere else and that man is going to put up some 1500 yard seasons, barring injury of course. System be damned.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Yeah, there is a wrong answer. And you've got it. Please read bolded above, especially the red, for the right answer.
You missed the boat on that one Diggy. Maybe numbers lie, but whatever you're looking at is stealing your money and running off with your wife.
You've re-defined the words "wash, "honestly", and "unbiasedly" in one sentence. Only the most diehard Reggie Bush lover would make that assertion. I take that back. Kim Kardashian would pick Arian Foster.
Define "talent"? Why doesn't this "talent" ever translate to the football field?
I think Miami's backfield would be considered for the bottom 10 in the league. I'm being honest and unbiased, because I could give a rat's arse about the Dolphins.
Foster has proven on the field to be far superior to Bush. Tate has proven to be far superior to Thomas (this may be the bigger joke). The Fins backfield isn't in the same galaxy as the Texans.
I was going to post this, so I will just add that Foster has (4) 40+ receptions to Bush's 3. In 210 fewer catches.
I'm scratching my head on this one. I would expect a post like this from a hardcore Dolphin fan or a Bush jocker (if there are actually anymore out there). But not a student of the game.
Lucky, you are using that term very loosely right now.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
There is no way you could convince anybody not on a Dolphins forum that Reggie Bush would put up similar numbers to Arian Foster in the Texans offense. You even just say it off-the-cuff as if we all should know this and you provide nothing to even back up this pretty ambiguous statement.
EDIT: If the best argument you have for Bush is "I believe he is exceptionally talented" you should probably keep that particular opinion to yourself. We can all believe that one player or another is exceptionally talented, but if they don't produce on the field they are not as good as the players that do produce on the field. That's like Skip Bayless levels of perpetuating arguments.
Joeycharp89
Waterboy
I will say this in his favor. When talking about Ben Tate and Thomas side by side with the same blocking/offensive scheme I'd say they are very similar. Production is what matters for the win, yes. And he predicts the Texans to win. But all he says is that the running backs themselves have similar levels of talent.
Well to use his poor logic against him...... He says the reason that Bush is on the same level as Foster is because he's more explosive. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that Thomas is more explosive than Tate. On top of that Tate runs just as hard as Thomas, and without looking up the stats I'd bet that he probably breaks more tackles. The argument is extremely poor. Plus, he says that Miller is better than Forsett? Miller's 3 ypc in the preseason were very impressive. The kid hasn't shown anything in the NFL to show that he's better than Forsett.
He's basically pulling stuff out of his backside with his argument. Sometimes people say things without thinking and are afraid to admit when they're full of it. To be honest this is the first of his videos I've ever seen. Bad first impression as I'm very unimpressed.
I think maybe he shouldve picked a better category to express his political correctness as the rb's are not even close.
It'd be like comparing Stephen hill to Andre Johnson and saying the wr position is a wash because hill is big, strong and fast and the talent is there.
Nevermind that he hasn't actually done anything.
Jmo, but when you're an analyst I think you should stick to the facts and it's s proven fact that the texans backfield trumps the dlolphins.
It'd be completely different if in his commentary he says something like:
"the texans obviously have the more accomplished backfield and they get the edge here, but I like the combination of bush and Thomas. Bush turned it on last year and had his best season as a pro. With a rookie qb and a new head coach that will be more dedicated to feeding his backs I think bush is ready to take the next step in his career and begin to legitimize himself as a featured back in this league. The talent is definitely there and bush's explosiveness could prove dangerous for defenses if he's finally put it together. This is a match up to watch and observe"
THAT would have made more sense to me. But to say the rb position is a wash at this point just sounds ridiculous. I think he hash a bush crush because the logic he uses is that bush and Thomas would equal foster and Tate in our system...:umm: That doesn't make any sense even if we go with the assumption that it's true.
They aren't going to be running in our system. They are going to be running in theirs. Seems like a strange arguing point to me.
