abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan coming up in sports

[Rey]

I don't often agree with marcus, but when I do I prefer dos equis.

How could you be taken seriously if you don't think it's possible that they will be playing next season with Yates as the starting QB?

I swear, some of you are really letting those Baltimore interceptions go to your heads.

 

[2012Champs]

How could you be taken seriously if you don't think it's possible that they will be playing next season with Yates as the starting QB?

I swear, some of you are really letting those Baltimore interceptions go to your heads.

Let me ask you, Do you somehow think we were a sb WITH yates?


Acutally my opinion of Yates was formed well before the Ravens game. The Balt int were bad, the missed int in balt were bad, the number of other missed or called back ints in his other games were bad.

My opinion is that if the Texans know that Schaub wont be back at the start of the season they will look to get someone else to start instead of falling back on Yates again. I assure you my opinion isnt far fetched

 

[Stemp]

Yates is the #2 QB. If Schaub isn't ready by the start of the season Yates will be #1 and Kubiak will bring back Delhomme or some other vet to back him up like last season if Lienhart is released or signs elsewhere.

This is pretty much a moot point because everything I've heard is that Schaub will be ready by the start of training camp.

QB Matt Schaub's progress from Lisfranc surgery and the team's commitment to T.J. Yates and Matt Leinart are just three reasons why it's very unlikely Peyton Manning would play with the Texans, according to the Houston Chronicle, which also pointed out that Manning's uncertain health status and the Texans' offensive philosophy are major deterrents in a Manning-Houston scenario.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/17262188

 

[Double Barrel]

Manning Fans!

FIFY

How could you be taken seriously if you don't think it's possible that they will be playing next season with Yates as the starting QB?

I swear, some of you are really letting those Baltimore interceptions go to your heads.

It will be interesting to see the amount of crow being served when Schaub is our starter in 2012 and Yates is his backup.

As much as folks like to believe that they know how Kubiak & Co. think, often they are just confused by the voices in their own heads.

Rich hasn't been on this week, Straw's been sitting in for him...

Josh Innis was really going too long and too far with it yesterday... He was criticizing the wording, something like "Manning is 'definitely' interested in 'possibly' coming to the Texans..." Yah, bad wording, and Bob Allen called in and admitted it was, but was it worth that many segments of bashing? No..

They also made the point (caller brought it up, they agreed) that the wording was intentional, placed as an out for Allen to say "oh i said possibly, never said he was fo sure interested..." Bob Allen said he doesn't "do that crap", and Straw told him "it was a point a caller made, not coming from us." BS, they ran with it and hammered it... Funny how before and after Allen was on that Innis talked all tough about how he has the balls to call out media personalities in Houston, but he was silent a the whole time Allen was on the phone after introducing him with mega ass-kissing...

It is obvious from the context of all of what Bob Allen reported that he was saying that Manning was interested, there was no way for him to fall back on it... Bad wording in one freaking sentence? Yes...but we all got the point...

Josh Innis is a sad example of Houston radio. He's Mr. Channel Changer to me. I could care less about what kind of pie he likes (or whatever mundane personal insight he wishes to share), and his takes are rarely even interesting. Then, he does stuff like this...

 

[Hardcore Texan]

Yates is the #2 QB. If Schaub isn't ready by the start of the season Yates will be #1 and Kubiak will bring back Delhomme or some other vet to back him up like last season if Lienhart is released or signs elsewhere. This is pretty much a moot point because everything I've heard is that Schaub will be ready by the start of training camp.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/17262188

FIFY




It will be interesting to see the amount of crow being served when Schaub is our starter in 2012 and Yates is his backup.
As much as folks like to believe that they know how Kubiak & Co. think, often they are just confused by the voices in their own heads.




Josh Innis is a sad example of Houston radio. He's Mr. Channel Changer to me. I could care less about what kind of pie he likes (or whatever mundane personal insight he wishes to share), and his takes are rarely even interesting. Then, he does stuff like this...

It really is that simple. That's it....period. It's like folks havent' been paying attention to Kubiak's M.O. or something. It's as plain as day to me.

 

[2012Champs]

It will be interesting to see the amount of crow being served when Schaub is our starter in 2012 and Yates is his backup.

Thats actually not the scenario I was talking about. I too think if Schaub is ready to start Yates will be backup. If for some reason Schaub isnt ready it of my opinion and hope Yates isnt the go to guy

 

[badboy]

J & R on 610 were super harsh on Allen. I turned it off because they were trying to clown him so much. It was kind of classless the way the handled the whole situation. There's no reason to think he would make this up if it wasn't given to him from someone with true knowledge of what Manning's thought process is. Rich has always come off as a real jerk off to me anyway. Never cared for the guy at all.

yeah i caught that and turned it off also. They are correct in that any media figure can be criticised like any entertainment person but don't trash the guy for reporting what he got from a creditable source.

 

[drunkcookie]

Josh Innis is a sad example of Houston radio. He's Mr. Channel Changer to me. I could care less about what kind of pie he likes (or whatever mundane personal insight he wishes to share), and his takes are rarely even interesting. Then, he does stuff like this...

I've actually warmed up to him a "tad"... Half the time i like him, half the time i can't stand him...

I will say the show's a lot easier to listen to when Rich is there, he seems to reel Josh in before he takes too much line and spools the show... It gets real bad when Koch or Straw/whoever is filling in for Rich, because he takes over... It becomes the "i received negative tweets/texts/emails, let me talk about how I'm trying to change the way radio is done in Houston and how Houston listeners are soft compared to other listeners in legit markets the whole show" show... The pecimism flows like a flooded river and I'm forced to switch stations and listen to Charlie Pallilo talk about the greatest Tennis matches of 1979...

 

[badboy]

Unless you have Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or someone like that on your team you have to discuss it, but the idea that people actually think there's a chance in hell that we'd pay him when Kubiak already has his guy in Schaub is borderline nuts.

Well, he has him only for one more year guaranteed and Matt has not been released to play and will not be for some time. his injury is veryserious and one of our posters is a doctor & has voiced his opinion as I recall that it could be more serious than many are giving credence to.

Just because you take a dog for a walk doesn't mean you own the dog.

 

[drunkcookie]

Just because you take a dog for a walk doesn't mean you own the dog.

I love making up and deciphering metaphors n junk, but I'm having a hard time seeing where this one fits with what you said...explain...

 

[Marcus]

It will be interesting to see the amount of crow being served when Schaub is our starter in 2012 and Yates is his backup..

If Schaub is the starter at the beginning of the season, I'll be eating a ton of it, since I don't think he'll be ready in time.

All these "reports" that his rehab is progressing well enough to do that . . . I want to see the sources.

 

[Goatcheese]

If Schaub is the starter at the beginning of the season, I'll be eating a ton of it, since I don't think he'll be ready in time.

All these "reports" that his rehab is progressing well enough to do that . . . I want to see the sources.

Schaub thinks he'll be ready by the start of OTAs, and no doubt about Training Camp. There is a huge amount of time between camp and week 1, so it's almost certain that Schaub will be ready by the season opener barring a massive setback.

I'll most likely be ready to participate in OTAs, definitely training camp be full-go

So, yeah... the source is Matt Schaub.

 

[dalemurphy]

If Schaub is the starter at the beginning of the season, I'll be eating a ton of it, since I don't think he'll be ready in time.

All these "reports" that his rehab is progressing well enough to do that . . . I want to see the sources.

This injury has been difficult for players to come back from, but I don't recall a quarterback suffering this injury... When players like Duce Staley and Warrick Dunn struggle to regain form as running backs, that is one thing. I'm having a hard time understanding how Schaub can't return to what he was doing last season. After all, he played the 3rd quarter with the foot broken. It isn't as if he has to make cuts at full speed. He only needs to be able to take his drops and make his throws. If the surgeon did his job, I think he'll be fine.

 

[Goatcheese]

While I'm in here, I'd like to say that Josh Innes is a moron.

If Dwight Howard came out tommorow and said he is definitely interested in a possible trade to Houston, would Innes blast him for poor wording?

Ofcourse not. The sentence is fine as is. Innes' mental handicap and inability to comprehend basic English is creating the problem.

 

[GP]

Yates is the #2 QB. If Schaub isn't ready by the start of the season Yates will be #1 and Kubiak will bring back Delhomme or some other vet to back him up like last season if Lienhart is released or signs elsewhere.

This is pretty much a moot point because everything I've heard is that Schaub will be ready by the start of training camp.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/17262188

It will be interesting to see the amount of crow being served when Schaub is our starter in 2012 and Yates is his backup.

As much as folks like to believe that they know how Kubiak & Co. think, often they are just confused by the voices in their own heads.

Yes, because we all know how reliable the reports are when it comes to predicting when ___________ (insert name of Texans player) will be back.

What are they going to say? "We 'hope' he is back," or "Well, we 'think' he will be ahead of schedule." Also: If I'm Matt Schaub, damn straight I'd be saying I'm ahead of schedule, And I'd lie if my foot hurt like hell, too...I'd fake it and act like I'm ready to go. Because I know the window is closing and the Texans are near the chance at a Super Bowl. The guy is driven. I don't doubt his work ethic. But I put ZERO stock in what he, his agent, or even a member of the Texans medical/training staff is saying right now. It's P.R., plain and simple.

Get me to when it counts, then let's talk about his rehab progress. Why give credence to Schaub's own status report in February when he's still supposed to be off the damn thing. Right? Isn't it 6 to 8 months NON-WEIGHT BEARING right now? I might be wrong, correct if I am...but I thought CnD said you have to be non-weight bearing, i.e. foot in the air and no weight put upon that foot, for 6 to 8 months after the surgery. When was the surgery? December'ish, right? We're roughly three months into a 6 to 8 month non-weight bearing period of time, and his rehab is "ahead of schedule?"

I take this to mean, "There have been no setbacks" because he can't put weight on it. He can't test it. The real challenge is when he can finally stand on the leg and start building strength in ALL of the leg muscles that are atrophied because of the leg not being used. Marcus has detailed this, over and over, and yet it keeps getting marginalized. We have a guy who had this VERY same thing happen to him, he's been through hell with it, he's been gracious enough to post on here the obstacles and natural challenges any normal person will go through when trying to recover form this...and we've got CnD on here saying very realistic (but not comforting) things about the injury....yet Matt Schaub says his recovery is ahead of schedule and now, apparently, there will be some crow to be eaten when Schaub Kirk Gibson's his way out of the huddle and out to the line of scrimmage for OTAs or training camp??? LOL.

I think I know which source(s) to believe, unless Matt Schaub is not a mortal man or something.

 

[Goatcheese]

No offense to CnD, but diagnosing a player with 3rd and 4th hand information is impossible.

Schaub is basing what he's saying on what his doctors are telling him. You know, those guys who actually treat him directly and monitor his recovery with full access to the player and his test/scan results.

 

[J_R]

Yeah, Bob Allen is angry. The hell with you Josh Innes! On 1560(last night I think).

"I was told Peyton wants a team that can win right away because his clock is ticking."

"I talked to someone in the Texans FO this morning. Chances are slim that this would happen. The fact he is interested though is worth mentioning."

"One side would have to adapt."

"I think Mario will be a FA. Don't think they can afford him. Not to take anything away from Mario, but Reed did a hell of a job. Think they'll get Arian and Chris signed. The money not used on Mario I think they can use on a quality receiver. Next is corner.

http://www.1560thegame.com/audio/bo...manning-may-be-interested-in-the-texans-3496/

 

[GP]

This injury has been difficult for players to come back from, but I don't recall a quarterback suffering this injury... When players like Duce Staley and Warrick Dunn struggle to regain form as running backs, that is one thing. I'm having a hard time understanding how Schaub can't return to what he was doing last season. After all, he played the 3rd quarter with the foot broken. It isn't as if he has to make cuts at full speed. He only needs to be able to take his drops and make his throws. If the surgeon did his job, I think he'll be fine.

IIRC, Brady Quin did but it was not EXACTLY like Schaub's.

I will do some research, but I think it was on Brady's non-plant foot, and I think the severity of Brady's injury to that area was not as extreme as Matt's injury.

It was discussed in a thread wayyyy long ago, though, so maybe I don't recall everything 100%.

Any player who has to make quick cuts/lateral moves, such as a RB or WR or defensive back, etc., has not been able to return and remain in the NFL.

From the link Lisfranc injuries: How it affects NFL players:

Matt Schaub of the NFL's Houston Texans sustained a midfoot sprain to the right foot, notably called a "Lisfranc" injury in last week's game. This is considered a "significant injury" which has the potential to end his season in 2011.

Why is that?

Most players require lateral movement and the ability to jump and stop suddenly after sprinting. These are all functions that the midfoot complex will play a significant role in accomplishing. The injury itself is a complicated one, with numerous variations that each of these has a significant prognosis in long term function.

This injury may have [been] a pure ligamentous tear, or even a fracture component with the ligament tear. With this, some orthopedic literature has condoned the possibility that with regards to athletes, surgery may be indicated in more cases to realign the foot and promote more stability long term.

The article says if surgery and screws are used, they don't come out for around 12 weeks (3 months) and definitely not before a doctor allows the patient to put weight on the foot. So, 3 months to 6 months (CnD said 6 to 8 months is a safer bet for this type of issue), depending on the physician's analysis of the patient, is what we're looking at for non-weight bearing. Obviously, physicians are going to treat each patient differently based on multiple factors that change fluidly as the rehab progresses.

Brady Quinn's Lisfranc injnury was, according to various reports, not as serious as Schaub's. He had a minor issue with his Lisfranc back in December of 2009, and visited a specialist. Browns Team President, Mike Holmgren, in January 2010 said:

“I met with our training staff today,” said Holmgren. “I don’t believe he’s going to need surgery. He needs some time, clearly. As far as the specifics of the injury, we can talk a little about that tomorrow. Lisfranc, that’s the first thought, yeah.”

Also, a link to this article about Lisfranc and NFL players:

The greatest concerns following treatment of a Lisfranc injury are whether the patient can regain his pre-injury mobility and, over time, whether arthritis of the joint may occur. Perhaps the most prominent NFL player to suffer a Lisfranc injury in recent years was former Eagles and Steelers' RB Duce Staley, who never quite returned to his previous level of play afterwards, proving just how difficult it is to regain full mobility of the foot.

All I'm doing here is saying that the recovery and FULL return to the field of play for an NFL player who has suffered this sort of injury, to the extent Matt Schaub has (needing screws to hold it together, just like Marcus--of this message board--has had to do, himself) is not encouraging for us.

Propers to Matt Schaub for working his ass off, obviously, and much luck to him and all that jazz...because he is our best shot with what we have at QB right now...but I won't be washing up for my dinner of crow just yet. TJ Yates is TJ Yates. Right now, he'll be the QB1 in OTAs and camp, IMO.

 

[GP]

No offense to CnD, but diagnosing a player with 3rd and 4th hand information is impossible.

Schaub is basing what he's saying on what his doctors are telling him. You know, those guys who actually treat him directly and monitor his recovery with full access to the player and his test/scan results.

He's been right a helluva' lot more than he's been wrong. For years now, btw.

Every time a Texans staff person would say "Player X is progressing well, probably be back on Y Date to make his return to the field..." CnD has been on here saying that's rubbish and has explained why.

Not saying he is 100% right all the time, but the guy has a track record of nailing the Texans' reports to the wall and doing a full autopsy of "the cause of death" to the flimsy injury report put forth by Texans staff.

I agree that CnD is not privy to what Schaub's status is. But we're also not getting the full details of what Schaub's physician is truly thinking/saying, either, which we shouldn't be privy to that (for many, many reasons!).

Therefore, I turn back to the historic long-term success rates of players in the NFL who have suffered a Lisfranc injury to the degree/severity that Matt Schaub has sustained...the numbers are not comforting.

But all things are possible. So it's purely wait-and-see mode for us as fans. Odds are better that Yates is QB1 in OTAs and camp, not Schaub, IMO.

 

[ChampionTexan]

How could you be taken seriously if you don't think it's possible that they will be playing next season with Yates as the starting QB?

I swear, some of you are really letting those Baltimore interceptions go to your heads.

I don't dismiss the possibility, but if Schaub isnt going to be ready for the season opener, two names I wouldn't be surprised to see resurface are Sage Rosenfels, and David Garrard. Both are currently available, and both were discussed as potential additions to the roster after Leinart went down.

During the 2011 season wasn't the time to add either one of these guys, but if they've recovered physically, and get an off-season to learn/re-learn the Texans system, I think it's possible either one of those guys could spend 2012 on the Texans roster. If that's the case, I could see either one of them beating out Yates for opening day starter if Schaub wasn't able to go. I also see Leinart sticking around as a real possibility if the Texans are genuinely concerned about Schaub's availability, and I believe if that's the case, there will be a true competition between he and Yates.

Right now, the Texans and Schaub are putting out the story that Schaub will be ready. While I don't believe it just because they say so, I don't put much stock in MB posters (even physicians) regarding an injury they have zero first hand knowledge of. I think what the Texans do in regard to extending or not extending Schaub early, along with seeing what they do about the 3rd QB slot will say far more about Schaub's health than anything or anyone has said so far.

 

[GP]

I don't dismiss the possibility, but if Schaub isnt going to be ready for the season opener, two names I wouldn't be surprised to see resurface are Sage Rosenfels, and David Garrard. Both are currently available, and both were discussed as potential additions to the roster after Leinart went down.

During the 2011 season wasn't the time to add either one of these guys, but if they've recovered physically, and get an off-season to learn/re-learn the Texans system, I think it's possible either one of those guys could spend 2012 on the Texans roster. If that's the case, I could see either one of them beating out Yates for opening day starter if Matt wasn't able to go. I also see Leinart sticking around as a real possibility if the Texans are genuinely concerned about Schaub's availability, and I believe if that's the case, there will be a genuine competition between he and Yates.

Right now, the Texans and Schaub are putting out the story that Schaub will be ready. While I don't believe it just because they say so, I don't put much stock in MB posters (even physicians) opinions regarding an injury they have zero first hand knowledge of. I think what the Texans do in regard to extending or not extending Schaub early, along with seeing what they do about the 3rd QB slot will say far more about Schaub's health than anything or anyone has said so far.

Put stock into the list of NFL players who have suffered the exact same injury (the same "severity" as Schaub) who have come back and failed to remain in the NFL past the 1-year mark of making their return.

Ty Law. Glenn Earl. etc., etc.

Then go back and look at CnD's history of debunking Texans' medical reports, couple that with what Marcus has been through with the exact same injury, and multiply it by the number of players who have not returned AND remained in the NFL. That's the math I am using.

Disclaimer: All things are possible.

 

[Grams]

The plot thickens . . . . . .

Manning underwent unknown surgery last yearPosted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 15, 2012, 2:39 PM EST

Getty ImagesIt’s been widely reported that Colts quarterback Peyton Manning has undergone three neck surgeries in the last two years.

Don Banks of SI.com reports the number is actually four.

Manning underwent an unreported surgery last year between his May surgery and his September cervical neck fusion surgery. Banks adds a lot of new details in his extensive and well-reported piece.

More surgery expected: Manning’s neck has potentially developed bone spurs. The Colts believe further surgery is “nearly inevitable,” even if Manning can successfully return to football this year.

Manning pushed to play in December: The “extent and scope” of Manning’s on-field workouts in December initially frustrated former Colts Vice Chairman Bill Polian. Manning wanted to play in the red zone in the season’s final weeks, but the Colts medical staff ruled it out once they took a look at him.

Manning was unable to throw past 20-22 yards at the time.
“He wanted to go on the field and try to dump red-zone passes against Houston,” a league source told Banks. “Even though his neck muscles hadn’t even been strengthened yet. Can you imagine anyone putting him on the field in that situation? Just to throw a string of red-zone passes? But that’s where things were going at that time, and it kind of speaks to the insanity of the situation.”

Chronic problem? The Colts fear Manning’s neck issues have become chronic. It’s hard to argue with four surgeries in under two years, including three in a five month span last year.

There will be plenty of questions regarding why all this information came out now. But the article helps to underscore the serious nature of Manning’s medical problems.

We just hope someone is watching out for Manning’s long-term health, because he’s already tried to play before it was safe once.

 

[badboy]

I love making up and deciphering metaphors n junk, but I'm having a hard time seeing where this one fits with what you said...explain...

Just because we interview Manning does not mean we have to sign him. Get together over chilidogs & feel each other out.

 

[J_R]

Reference to Grams post:

While the decision-making process regarding Peyton Manning's future in Indianapolis continues to unfold, new details about his problematic neck issues and his attempts to deal with them have surfaced.

SI.com has learned from NFL sources that Manning actually underwent a fourth, unreported, medical procedure in the past two years, not three as has been widely known.

While it cannot be determined exactly when the unreported procedure on Manning's neck took place, it was at some point after his May 23 surgery in Chicago to correct a bulging disk, and before his Sept. 9 one-level cervical neck fusion surgery in Marina Del Rey, Calif. The same doctor who operated on Manning's bulging disk in May did a follow-up procedure last summer in Chicago, as a result of the original surgery. Both of those operations came while the NFL and its players were still engaged in their protracted labor fight, with clubs having very limited medical contact with injured players. At the time of Manning's September neck operation, that surgery was reported to be his third neck procedure in 19 months. In reality, it was his fourth.

In addition, league sources say Manning's neck has potentially developed bone spurs just above the point where his latest fusion surgery took place in early September, and the Colts organization is under the belief that it is nearly inevitable Manning will at some point require further surgery, and possibly another fusion procedure, even if he does successfully return to the field in 2012. It's unclear how any potential long-term neck issues will impact Manning's decision to attempt a resumption of his NFL playing career later this year.

...

While the new details paint a picture of Manning's health that may be more tenuous than is publicly known, NFL sources told SI.com that the Colts quarterback was strenuously trying to show team officials and coaches that he was capable of playing in the final two weeks of the regular season, but specifically in red zone situations, where his limited arm strength would be less of a liability.

Manning was targeting the Colts' Week 16 home finale against Houston for his return, league sources said, even taking part in an organized and fully-scripted 30-play practice session in the week leading up to Indy's Week 15 home game against Tennessee. In that workout, Manning performed in front of Colts team president Bill Polian, head coach Jim Caldwell and offensive coordinator Clyde Christensen, who was on hand to call plays.

While one league source said Manning was clearly angling to play against Houston, another league source said the issue quickly became moot after the Manning-led workout, because Colts team physician Hank Feuer quickly ruled out clearing Manning for any on-field action.

Feuer said Manning's neck muscles at that time were still atrophied from his long period of inactivity following the September surgery, and he had yet to recover his full range of motion in the area. It short-circuited any possibility Manning had of getting back on the field before the 2011 season ended, with him at one point hopeful he could show the team he was capable of running its red-zone offense against the Texans and possibly the following week at Jacksonville, league sources said.

Sources who were on hand for the practice say that while Manning was accurate with his passes, he threw nothing longer than 20-22 yards, and his passes wobbled at times, with perhaps 80 percent of his usual velocity. Manning also seemed to be visibly fatigued at times during the workout, sources said, which further convinced Caldwell and others that it would be unwise to risk further injury to their franchise quarterback with a cameo appearance against Houston or Jacksonville.

"He wanted to go on the field and try to dump red-zone passes against Houston,'' a league source said. "Even though his neck muscles hadn't even been strengthened yet. Can you imagine anyone putting him on the field in that situation? Just to throw a string of red-zone passes? But that's where things were going at that time, and it kind of speaks to the insanity of the situation.''

All four of Manning's recent surgeries or medical procedures have been on the right side of his neck, league sources said. The team is concerned that Manning's neck injuries have reached the chronic stage, and that there could be a genetic aspect to his condition. Manning's older brother, Cooper, 38, had his college football career ended before it began when he was diagnosed with spinal stenosis, a narrowing of the spinal canal that required surgery to relieve pressure on the spinal cord. In Peyton Manning's case, any evidence of stenosis is thought to be on the moderate side, league sources said, but the likelihood of further complications increase with each new surgery he undergoes.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...2/15/peyton/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

 

[Double Barrel]

Yes, because we all know how reliable the reports are when it comes to predicting when ___________ (insert name of Texans player) will be back.

Standard protocol for 32 NFL teams.

That being said, why do you trust what Manning says or reports about him?

If Schaub is not ready to start in September, I do not think it prudent to put all the eggs in a basket of a player who has had 3-4 neck surgeries in two years and has been as vague as it gets with regards to his status.

Manning was not honest with the Colts last off-season or during training camp. They were blind-sided by his obtuse arrogant nature. This is not something I think we should depend on for our 2012 season.

Besides, the last time he played was December 2010. A year off, multiple neck surgeries, inability to even toss a ball around, huge salary, and 36 years old do not add up to anything positive for this franchise.

It's a cute story in an off-season rumor sort of way, but I would honestly be shocked if the Texans FO was stupid enough to fall for it.

 

[Rey]

I had a dream peyton went to the jags and had a good year and we ran out a gimpy matt schaub and he struggled. I hope like hell that doesn't happen. I hope peyton retires and if schaub can't go tj is ready.

 

[Marcus]

Link

There were yet more salvos fired by all sides Wednesday regarding the health and status of Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning.

First, Don Banks of Sports Illustrated reported that the four-time Most Valuable Player may have undergone an unknown (until today) fourth operation on his troublesome neck, casting yet more doubt on the 14-year veteran's health.

Then, the Indianapolis Star published an interview with Colts owner Jim Irsay that outlined how Irsay believes that Manning could return to the fold with the team.

"We can make it work if he wants to be here. We'd be excited to have him back and finish his career with us.

"I want him to be able to make the choice. We would love to have him back here if he can get healthy and we can look at doing a contract that reflects the uncertainty of the . . . healing process with the regeneration of the nerve.''

In other words, rework your five-year, $90 million contract, especially the $28 million roster bonus March 8th, or get shown the door, at which point "we" (the Colts) can blame your greed for having to part ways with the player that made football actually mean something in Indy.

Manning's health aside, what possible reason could he have for doing this?

The only possible motivator that makes any sense were if Manning himself feared that he would no longer be able to play, and wished to avoid losing face with Colts fans more than he already has since the increasingly public spat between Manning and Irsay (you know, the one they're not having) which began with Manning's very candid interview with the Star on January 24.

Were a potential retirement announcement looming, then that's reasonable.

However, Manning's given zero indication that's the case, stating over and over his intent to play again.

It's also worth noting that when Manning signed the contract a year ago, the prevailing opinion was that it was team-friendly, so the Colts seemingly not only want to have their cake and eat it too, but now Irsay wants the candles back as well.

Once again, what possible reason could Manning have for doing this?

None.

There are definitely winds of change blowing in Indianapolis, and from the looks of things Peyton Manning may not care for the direction that wind is coming from, so it appears that he's going to spread his wings, tilt his forehead to the sky and let them carry him right out the door.

I think that Manning is pissed that he can't go out on his own terms.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I'll say this much, if T.J. Yates is the starting quarterback once the 2012 regular season starts then my high expectations for this team would go way down. From a Super Bowl contender to another divisional round exit in the playoffs at best. That's too important of a position. I like Yates a lot but I don't believe this team can go all the way with him starting. He reminds me a lot of Jason Garrett when he played for the Dallas Cowboys. A good guy to fall back on when needed but not the guy who's going to get you a Lombardi trophy with his arm.

 

[badboy]

You might see Yates start 4-5 games as Matt continues to heal.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

You might see Yates start 4-5 games as Matt continues to heal.

That wouldn't be good enough to me. Our schedule is going to be a tough one. A lot depends how difficult it will be early in the season. Mind you, Yates couldn't even beat the Panthers or Colts this past season, two defenses which you would think he'd have the most success against. It really worries me how bad he'll be if other NFL teams actually have time to game plan for him. They've got more film to work with now. I don't feel Yates is ready. It would be wise for the Texans to bring in somebody else because I don't feel Matt Leinart is the answer either.

 

[badboy]

That wouldn't be good enough to me. Our schedule is going to be a tough one. A lot depends how difficult it will be early in the season. Mind you, Yates couldn't even beat the Panthers or Colts this past season, two defenses which you would think he'd have the most success against. It really worries me how bad he'll be if other NFL teams actually have time to game plan for him. They've got more film to work with now. I don't feel Yates is ready. It would be wise for the Texans to bring in somebody else because I don't feel Matt Leinart is the answer either.

You are crrect in your assesment but do not expect to see anyone higher than a 5th round brought into camp.

 

[HouSportsWriter]

Suprised this is not a sticky... lol

 

[thunderkyss]

I wonder if the recent struggles with the Colts have been directly related to the persona of Peyton Manning.

I think it would be easy to make the case. Not just because of his playing on the field, but all the way back to the Dungy days, Manning was probably running practice as well as the game. The offensive coaches probably got complacent & let it ride.

Players were used to doing certain things a certain way, because it worked with Manning. Not just which plays were called, but how they practiced, worked out, studied, etc... Reggie Wayne, Collie, Garson, probably didn't have to study much film, Peyton would say, "when my left eye goes like this, you go like that."

Heck, they've had what, 3 (2 I'm sure) first round running backs & several first round linemen, but not one back to back 1000 yard season from any of them since the Edge left.. probably wasn't working on their running game.

Now Peyton gets hurt & all of a sudden the coaches want to act like coaches, telling them where to put their hands, stay awake in meetings, be on time, pay attention? I can see them having trouble.

This is all a figment of my imagination, but I can't think of a better reason to clean house, from the GM to the water boy.

 

[Double Barrel]

That wouldn't be good enough to me. Our schedule is going to be a tough one. A lot depends how difficult it will be early in the season. Mind you, Yates couldn't even beat the Panthers or Colts this past season, two defenses which you would think he'd have the most success against. It really worries me how bad he'll be if other NFL teams actually have time to game plan for him. They've got more film to work with now. I don't feel Yates is ready. It would be wise for the Texans to bring in somebody else because I don't feel Matt Leinart is the answer either.

In all fairness, the team lost those games. It is quite common for teams to experience a drop off after winning a big game, and that Bengals game to clinch the first division title in franchise history is as big as it has ever been for the Texans.

In addition, Kubiak was gameplanning to keep his QB safe after that point, so he limited exposure for Yates and did not put him in situations that could get him hurt in the Colts and Panthers games. Besides, it was our DEFENSE that gave up a last minute score to Dan O in Indy. That was not anything on Yates.

Do not forget that a Yates led team beat two playoff teams during the regular season (Falcons and Bengals), as well as won the first playoff game in franchise history. So there is two sides to that coin.

I do not want to see Yates starting the season in September, but I'm not going to go Chicken Little on folks if he is the starter until Schaub is ready.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I like Yates a lot and I see a lot of potential in him but that's two or three years down the road. Right now, this team has a golden opportunity to win a Super Bowl. I'd hate to see management not do all it can to make that happen. I was actually one of the few people who was for signing Brett Favre when Schaub went down last year but unfortunately Rick Smith didn't want to even entertain the thought of that circus coming to town. Who knows how much further in the playoffs we could have gone with an experienced veteran. I also wasn't totally against playing Delhomme or Garcia in the playoffs.

Thank goodness Watt made that interception, huge game changer, right before halftime against the Bengals in the wild-card game. That game had me nervous up until then. Yates did show me some good things during all of his starts (absolutely love his mobility), but he also made a lot of mistakes that a proven veteran wouldn't make. Against the Bengals their defense failed to pounce on some very poor passes -- even dropping a sure fire pick six the other way. His game against the Ravens did not surprise me one bit.

 

[Rey]

Go back and look at the colts game. Tj was not bad in that game. Also, tj was a rookie thrown into the fire. I'm not sure why we wouldn't expect him to show some improvement heading into this season.

I'll say this much, if T.J. Yates is the starting quarterback once the 2012 regular season starts then my high expectations for this team would go way down. From a Super Bowl contender to another divisional round exit in the playoffs at best. That's too important of a position. I like Yates a lot but I don't believe this team can go all the way with him starting. He reminds me a lot of Jason Garrett when he played for the Dallas Cowboys. A good guy to fall back on when needed but not the guy who's going to get you a Lombardi trophy with his arm.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Go back and look at the colts game. Tj was not bad in that game. Also, tj was a rookie thrown into the fire. I'm not sure why we wouldn't expect him to show some improvement heading into this season.

Not blaming Yates for any of the losses at all. In fact, the Texans are 0-11 all-time at Indianapolis and Andre Johnson was out for that game so that's not even the point. My point is that I don't think he's ready to be the primary backup quarterback, much less the starting quarterback. Maybe in another two or three years he will be ready to do big things.

He isn't going to lead a team to a Super Bowl anytime soon and right now the Texans have a Super Bowl contender. I don't want to see this team throwing away a great opportunity. There's a two or three-window right now to take over the AFC because the rest of the conference is down. Tom Brady is aging, Ray Lewis is aging, the Jets and Steelers seem more beatable than in previous years.

They're capable of being the best team in the AFC in 2012 but only if they have a proven quarterback that is healthy. Matt Schaub can be that guy. We will see. I really do hope he is ready to play or else I want to see management making an effort to go after somebody else.

 

[thunderkyss]

My opinion is that if the Texans know that Schaub wont be back at the start of the season they will look to get someone else to start instead of falling back on Yates again. I assure you my opinion isnt far fetched

We've still got Leinart.

If Matt is healthy & ready to go week 1, he'll be the starter. However, if it looks like he may not, we'll hold on to Leinart & he'll start.

I know most people don't like the check down game in Jacksonville, but he probably graded pretty well for Kubiak. He took care of the ball & went down field when the opportunity was there.

He's bought & payed for, understands the system & Kubiak knows what to expect from him on & off the field, in & out of the locker room.

 

[thunderkyss]

I had a dream peyton went to the jags and had a good year and we ran out a gimpy matt schaub and he struggled. I hope like hell that doesn't happen. I hope peyton retires and if schaub can't go tj is ready.

I had a dream that Alicia Keys was my concubine.

Just like your dream, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to change the way we do business because of it.

 

[ObsiWan]

Even on this scooter, Schaub would still be able to roll out faster than Manning

 

[mussop]

How could you be taken seriously if you don't think it's possible that they will be playing next season with Yates as the starting QB?

I swear, some of you are really letting those Baltimore interceptions go to your heads.

If Yates is our starter next year we will be attached to another plane, wrapped helically around an axis. I swear you are letting all the Yates hype get to into your head.

 

[Marcus]

You are crrect in your assesment but do not expect to see anyone higher than a 5th round brought into camp.

I expect them to draft one much higher.

I've said this before, but if Smith and Kubiak are smart, they can hope that Schaub returns to full form, but they need to plan as if he never will, and draft accordingly.

 

[GP]

Standard protocol for 32 NFL teams.

That being said, why do you trust what Manning says or reports about him?

If Schaub is not ready to start in September, I do not think it prudent to put all the eggs in a basket of a player who has had 3-4 neck surgeries in two years and has been as vague as it gets with regards to his status.

Manning was not honest with the Colts last off-season or during training camp. They were blind-sided by his obtuse arrogant nature. This is not something I think we should depend on for our 2012 season.

Besides, the last time he played was December 2010. A year off, multiple neck surgeries, inability to even toss a ball around, huge salary, and 36 years old do not add up to anything positive for this franchise.

It's a cute story in an off-season rumor sort of way, but I would honestly be shocked if the Texans FO was stupid enough to fall for it.

My stance is not that we should get Manning. I played devil's advocate early on in this discussion, in another thread, actually, but I have not said "We ought to get Manning in here, or at least try to." Not sure if that's where you were headed with the reply or not, but we both agree on this.

My stance is that BOTH those guys are likely fighting their own version of a losing or extremely "up hill" battle for 2012.

Yates is the safer bet here. He's not awesome, he's not a clear-cut winner every time he takes the field, but he's healthy and Schaub isn't. And I don't think Schaub returns in time to take the helm...not with the degree of severity of his particular Lisfranc injury. I'm not his doctor, but neither are any of you guys either. What I'm going on is the severity of his particular injury coupled with what that has historically looked like for other players in the NFL who tried to come back from it.

If he recovers fully AND doesn't lose the edge he had previously, then he's likely either the luckiest man alive, blessed by God, or getting and using supplement advice from certain players.

Marcus is right on two accounts here: (1) The Lisfranc injury is worse than people want to imagine, and (2) People are letting the divisional round failures of Yates get to their heads too much.

All I care is that Schaub is not rushed back hastily, which might cause more harm than good.

 

[GP]

We've still got Leinart.

If Matt is healthy & ready to go week 1, he'll be the starter. However, if it looks like he may not, we'll hold on to Leinart & he'll start.

I know most people don't like the check down game in Jacksonville, but he probably graded pretty well for Kubiak. He took care of the ball & went down field when the opportunity was there.

He's bought & payed for, understands the system & Kubiak knows what to expect from him on & off the field, in & out of the locker room.

Matt Leinart??? You, again, are trying to see more than what's there.

Footwork is sloppy (which he said he had been "working" on that), his own slowness getting back to his last drop back was what caused him to get drilled into the turf (he's had that clavicle broken twice now, TK). And his lack of vision, coupled with his sloppy footwork and slow drop backs, is a nightmare.

He lobbed up a pass that we still cannot decide if it was truly intended for Dreessen or not, in that Jax game on the road. But Dressen snagged it and it gave us the eventual winning points. Yates came out like a fireball and then Kubiak realized, "Holy crap! I almost forgot we have NO other QB activated today. Dammit, get that guy handing the ball off or throwing the pass to the RB immediately, please." Yeah, I think the Leinart era is over for sure, TK.

Yates, though not perfect either, has these things to consider:

1. Had no off-season between draft and camp, due to lockout.

2. Worked the scout team, which meant he ran all the opponent's plays, and not our own, every week while Schaub and Leinart got reps with the ones.

3. Was pushed into the Jax game on a moment's notice and promptly led the team VERTICALLY down the field before being handcuffed due to Owen Daniels being the next QB if Yates went down.

4. Clinched the AFC South title and our first ever playoff appearance by zipping a perfect spiral to Kevin Walter on what was likely the last play of the Bengals game, on the road.

5. Played decently in the first playoff game and had a rough time on the road vs. the Baltimore Ed Reeds.

So....you're saying that after all that transpired here...Leinart will be the starter over Yates if Schaub is not ready to go? I'd like to propose a friendly wager. An avatar bet.The usual rules: Whoever loses has to wear the avatar chosen by the winner, for one week after the bet is resolved.

 

[GP]

I think it would be easy to make the case. Not just because of his playing on the field, but all the way back to the Dungy days, Manning was probably running practice as well as the game. The offensive coaches probably got complacent & let it ride.

Players were used to doing certain things a certain way, because it worked with Manning. Not just which plays were called, but how they practiced, worked out, studied, etc... Reggie Wayne, Collie, Garson, probably didn't have to study much film, Peyton would say, "when my left eye goes like this, you go like that."

Heck, they've had what, 3 (2 I'm sure) first round running backs & several first round linemen, but not one back to back 1000 yard season from any of them since the Edge left.. probably wasn't working on their running game.

Now Peyton gets hurt & all of a sudden the coaches want to act like coaches, telling them where to put their hands, stay awake in meetings, be on time, pay attention? I can see them having trouble.

This is all a figment of my imagination, but I can't think of a better reason to clean house, from the GM to the water boy.

That's a pretty good rundown of it. I think this is much like when the star of a high school football team goes absent...the star player's team is suddenly not as good as they were before.

And that's when fear grips that team, and the opponents play way above their own heads because they know they NOW can beat that team...and beat the SNOT out of them while they're at it.

Which is why I think Manning is screwed no matter which team he goes to. It sounds like he has trouble throwing passes over 20-yards deep, he's had MORE surgeries than was initially broadcast to the world, and he's headed into a situation in 2012 where opponents will not fear his ability to throw deep.

Take away the deep pass, and a QB is going to get blitzed or heavily rushed all day long. Everything goes shallow, and LBs and CBs can just play shallow and tee off on the WRs and TEs, etc.

Manning needs to realize there is a bright career in TV broadcasting.

 

[mussop]

I expect them to draft one much higher.

I've said this before, but if Smith and Kubiak are smart, they can hope that Schaub returns to full form, but they need to plan as if he never will, and draft accordingly.

Even if Schaub does comeback next year, how much slower will he be? I mean Bajeebus an old retired Dan Marino could beat him in a foot race before the surgery. And how is it going to effect him in the future? He is a FA next year and he's on the wrong side of 30 already with a long history of injuries.

Yates is okay but what if Schaub goes down again? Yates steps up and who backs him up? What if Yates can't handle the pressure? Lots of backups come in and look good at first, then teams get film of them and they are never heard of again. Frank Reich anyone?

This isn't a lets sign Manning post but its funny how some people say Manning couldn't run this offense because of the play action rollout. Well how is Matt Schaub going to run it with a bum foot?

I know this sounds crazy but we should be looking at franchising Mario and trading him along with whatever draft picks it takes to move up and take RG111. Why risk having to rely on an older often injured Schaub or a second year project like Yates when we have all this excellent young talent? Lets get our franchise QB of the future right now. Let him learn behind Schaub for a year. If Schaub goes down oh well throw RG 111 into the fire. If not you have a whole year to see if Schaub can stay healthy and lead this team to the promise land.

 

[ObsiWan]

Even if Schaub does comeback next year, how much slower will he be? I mean Bajeebus an old retired Dan Marino could beat him in a foot race before the surgery. And how is it going to effect him in the future? He is a FA next year and he's on the wrong side of 30 already with a long history of injuries.

Yates is okay but what if Schaub goes down again? Yates steps up and who backs him up? What if Yates can't handle the pressure? Lots of backups come in and look good at first, then teams get film of them and they are never heard of again. Frank Reich anyone?

This isn't a lets sign Manning post but its funny how some people say Manning couldn't run this offense because of the play action rollout. Well how is Matt Schaub going to run it with a bum foot?

I know this sounds crazy but we should be looking at franchising Mario and trading him along with whatever draft picks it takes to move up and take RG111. Why risk having to rely on an older often injured Schaub or a second year project like Yates when we have all this excellent young talent? Lets get our franchise QB of the future right now. Let him learn behind Schaub for a year. If Schaub goes down oh well throw RG 111 into the fire. If not you have a whole year to see if Schaub can stay healthy and lead this team to the promise land.

If Schaub cannot do what is asked of him, and we should know that by the end of OTAs, then he goes on the PUP list. As much as most of us don't like it, if that scenario plays out then Leinart will be #1 on the depth chart. Yates will be #2. And don't be shocked if we bring Delhomme back.

As tantalizing as RGIII might look in a Texans uni, I don't see us paying the premium price it would take to move up to get him. ...especially if we're in a bidding war with Washington. We'd be essentially mortgaging this draft for a backup. That doesn't seem like smart business; especially if we need those early round picks to draft a #2 WR and/or snag a pass rusher to replace Mario in Wade's OLB rotation. I, for one, DO NOT, want to weaken our newly rebuilt defense or fail to upgrade our one offensive weak spot, #2 WR, for a guy (as good as he looks for the future) that will hold a clipboard for the next year or two. Surely there's a promising Schaub understudy in round 3 or later.

Finally, I don't trust Manning. If he can't be totally straight - about his health - with the folks who have been paying him all these years, why the helll would he be straight with us? Yeah, we could send him thru a battery of performance checks but we've been burnt by those before (see Tony Boselli).

 

[Marcus]

Even if Schaub does comeback next year, how much slower will he be? I mean Bajeebus an old retired Dan Marino could beat him in a foot race before the surgery.

You need to remember that Schaub's injured foot is his plant foot. Mobility doesn't concern me. His ability to accurately throw the ball from pushing off on that plant foot does.

Case in point . . Ben Rothlesberger. Look how much his passing accuracy was affected gimping on that ankle all season.

Individual foot balance (the ability to stand on one foot without falling) is the last thing that comes back from a LisFranc injury. Now, I'm "assuming" his injury wasn't as severe as mine, but I do know that he had internal fixation (plates and screws) to stabilize it. He'll, at some time, need to have that hardware removed, in order to even attempt to restore full range of motion. If he had fusions done (to head off future degenerative arthritis) he'll never get it back.

I hope Schaub does what he says he's going to to do ... make it back in time for training camp. Nothing would make me happier. I'll just need to see it to believe it.

 

[kingh99]

nc delete

 

[kingh99]

Manning is not an option here. Notice his head coaches were either defensive specialists (Tony Dungy and Jim Mora) or a soap carving wearing a headset (Jim Caldwell). Kubiak runs the offense. No way he would give up offensive control to Manning, which is obviously what Manning requires.