TexanSam
Hall of Fame
ESPN jumped the gun? They are calling MS done.
NFL.com is not.
Wouldn't be the first time. John Clayton said Kevin Walter would be out for weeks earlier this season. He was out for a couple of days.
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ESPN jumped the gun? They are calling MS done.
NFL.com is not.
But, #2 QBs who've ended up being great? Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Matt Hasselbeck had some good years, Jim Plunkett, Roger Staubach... there have been quite a few QBs who've turned out pretty good who had to spend a few years on the bench. Some guys even started off as #1s, then had to get demoted and fight their way back up (like Plunkett.)
I'm hoping Leinart ends up like Plunkett. A guy who had his shot, blew it, sat on the bench and figured things out, and then got his chance and rocked.
ESPN jumped the gun? They are calling MS done.
NFL.com is not.
I don't swing that way but if it will help us win...:vincepalm:
So your answer is "No, but we're willing to learn"?
You know I am reminded that there was a team a few years ago that looked pretty good. They came out of the gates and many picked them as a contender. Then in December their starting QB went down. Their backup Qb came in and won the final 2 regular season games. He led the team to the Superbowl where he completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards, one touchdown, and no interceptions. His team rode a really good RB and stout D performance.
The running back was Otis Anderson. The team was the New York Giants. The Injured QB was Phil Simms. The backup was Jeff Hostetler.
It's the bye week. They've got an extra week to get Matty out of the hot tub and onto the field. At there's that working in our favor. Leinhart is good enough with two weeks of practice to throw a few passes and hand the ball off.
In Port Arthur, upper echelon & good are pretty much the same thing. If nothing else, upper echelon is actually better than good.
You know I am reminded that there was a team a few years ago that looked pretty good. They came out of the gates and many picked them as a contender. Then in December their starting QB went down. Their backup Qb came in and won the final 2 regular season games. He led the team to the Superbowl where he completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards, one touchdown, and no interceptions. His team rode a really good RB and stout D performance.
The running back was Otis Anderson. The team was the New York Giants. The Injured QB was Phil Simms. The backup was Jeff Hostetler.
Matt has been playing hurt and throwing many bad balls this year anyways. With Andre returning, I doubt teams leave him lonely for long. I have every confidence Leinart can deliver a deep ball as well as Schaub.
Agreed, but physical ability isn't really the concern. Leinart can throw the ball as well as most anyone, but will he be able to effectively read defenses and avoid the mistakes he routinely made as a starter in Arizona (forcing throws into coverage, following his primary receiver with his eyes for the entire play, scrambling out of the pocket for no reason, etc).? Only time will tell. I suppose it could be worse, we could be on the phone with the Giants...if you know what I mean.
So, if I'm getting you, we're pretty much waiting to see if it's a stable Lisfranc that ends his season or an unstable Lisfranc that may end his career?
TK, I wish I could answer your question (which is a good question), but I can't with certainty, mainly since we don't even know if this is a true Lisfranc which involves a fracture of a metatarsal bone (one of the long mid foot bones) along with a separation of that bone with its more proximal attachment to an ankle bone........or if it may be solely a metatarsal fracture without the accompanying separation and associated ligament damage. There may still be a question of a true separation if it demonstrates borderline measurement.
Don't forget, though, how often these same scenarios of not really being told what they may know........things that they must have known pretty much from the beginning, but chose not to reveal it until they decided that "hiding it" any longer served no further purpose. Who knows at this point? Who knows when and if we find out what the real facts of injury ever come out.
One thing that I can tell you is that no injury is made BETTER by allowing it to be played on. I also question why he was not made to elevate his foot or, better yet, why he would be allowed to bear weight let alone walk on his booted foot BEFORE a definitive diagnosis could be made. Reminds me of watching Tate being encouraged to weight bear and walk off the field unassisted after his catastrophic injury.........only to finally give out when he reached the sideline. Again, I wish I had all the answers for you, but I just don't.
Let's keep this thread about Schaub and his injury, and post about Leinart in other existing threads.
As usual, we don't have the complete findings right now. But probably the best case scenario is an isolated metatarsal stress fracture or clean fracture........a non-Lisfranc fracture that could theoretically heal over a 6-8 week period require an additional 2-week period for strictly return to play conditioning. EVERYTHING would have to heal and fall in place perfectly for Schaub to even POSSIBLY be available late into the playoffs if the Texans make it there. Don't really know, but this is possibly one explanation I could think of for a wishy-washy appearance to the decision process. If, indeed, he only has an isolated non-Lisfranc metatarsal fracture, his long term prognosis would be much less discouraging............IF......
How is it that Ahmad Bradshaw has a broken foot but can keep playing but schaub would require 6-8 weeks minimum before weight bearing?
Personally, I always thought Schaub was upper echelon and I think people have been overly critical of his abilities. I think most of the people panicking are the people who thought he was good.I have no idea what your point is here.In Port Arthur, upper echelon & good are pretty much the same thing. If nothing else, upper echelon is actually better than good.
When I say "upper echelon", I mean that I consider him one of the top 5-6 QBs in the league. Which, as you say, is actually better than good.
Does this suck? Hell yes!
It is the end of the season? Hell no!
The Texans aren't losing Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. They are losing a better-than-average QB, not a multi-time all star. Schaub is certainly better than Leinart but its not going from John Elway to Bubby Brister.
My understanding is he was not given MRI until after. He taped @ half time and returned to play. He complained in 4th quarter it was still bothering him.Honestly guys the fact that they did let him play, barring the adrenaline rush, I don't think its a lisfranc injury. Yeah hes getting tons of evaluations but remember Andre missed 6 weeks and got tons of evaluations and second opinions. A real lisfranc wouldn't have allowed shaub to be in the game for another quarter. It is possible that it could be a broken toe or some really bad bruising as we don't know what went down under that pile. With aj80 we could clearly see how and why his injury took place. I'm not saying I expect 8 to return after the jacks game but I do think hell return if we do get inthe playoffs. We have a bye and six more games to play through. With our defense playing as well as they have and our stellar run game I say we go 5-1. But I'm not sure there's much kool aid left.
I am not a Doctor, but there are many bones in the foot. McFadden has a foot injury and has been out quite a bit this year.
I guess my point was that it sounded like CND was implying any foot break has minimum recovery time of 6-8 weeks.
Yet Bradshaw has a break and is still day to day.
Since we dint know which bone is broken and since Schaub rarely runs, I'm just wondering why it wouldn't be possible to see him sooner than 8 weeks
My understanding is he was not given MRI until after. He taped @ half time and returned to play. He complained in 4th quarter it was still bothering him.
Favre had AP in Minnesota and decided HE would be the hero instead of making use of the best back in football.Out of all the out-of-work QBs that I would trust to throw the ball and make things happen, based on what we got for that QB to work with, Old Man Favre has to be the one guy you look at it and think "You know what? The guy can go balls if he has a running game to keep defenses honest." Period.
End of rant.
Gabbert
Dalton
Ryan
Cam
Painter/Orlovsky
Hasselbeck
We could do worse.
I would think more people would panic if they thought Schaub was upper echelon & we now have to resort to Lienart; knowing their will be a big drop in QB performance.
If the thought was that Schaub was merely good, they wouldn't expect as big a drop; & therefore not panic.
Does this suck? Hell yes!
It is the end of the season? Hell no!
The Texans aren't losing Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. They are losing a better-than-average QB, not a multi-time all star. Schaub is certainly better than Leinart but its not going from John Elway to Bubby Brister.
What the hell? Andy Dalton, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton and Matt Hasselbeck are all assuredly better than Matt Leinart. At the very least, I would be much more comfortable with them at QB than Leinart.
This thread from the Titans forum is so ridiculous http://gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=76948
They are so caught up with whats happening with the Texans they are forgetting they still have to play their own games. Looking at their schedule i see maybe 2-3 more wins. Hilarious
I would think more people would panic if they thought Schaub was upper echelon & we now have to resort to Lienart; knowing their will be a big drop in QB performance.
If the thought was that Schaub was merely good, they wouldn't expect as big a drop; & therefore not panic.
There's not much to panic about really... our season is o-v-e-r without Schaub. It is what it is. Fans in denial always holler... plug and play! Plug and play! Believing in the system is ok up to an extent. Leinart is replacing a 4700+ yard passer. Yeah right.
Hopefully we'll hold it together and limp our way into a wildcard. With three divisional games ahead of us... the future looks to be bleak.
FYI, Kubiak confirmed Lisfranc today on NFL.com.
If the Titans (5-4) win out, they'll be 12-4, that would include beating us Jan 1I have been following this thread. The guy that says "We (Titans) control our own destiny..." is funny. How do the Titans control their own destiny? They are 2.5 games behind, still have some tough games, are 1-2 in the division (and still come to Houston at the end of the year) they need us to go on a 3-4 game losing streak for them to jump ahead.
Oh yeah did I mention they play a Falcons team who just lost a heart breaker against a divisional foe last Sunday? Their only good win comes against a Baltimore team that has been as inconsistent as them.
Titans are a good team though, I don't think of them as a cupcake but they need a big collapse from the Texans to take the lead. If they think we will do so because we always did so...well those years in the past we were NEVER 7-3 with the #1 defense in the NFL..
So I guess Schaub also plays defense?
Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak wouldn't confirm Tuesday that Matt Schaub is sidelined by a Lisfranc injury in his right foot, and he's not ready to pull the plug on his quarterback's season quite yet.
Sure, but that's equivalent of some athlete fracturing his fibula. Any human in the world wouldn't be able to play on a fracture. Let alone a lisfranc fracture. I just don't think his injury is as big as every one makes it seem. Even if koobs was downplaying the injury he used the word significant to discribe it.
linkLis franc strains are rare in the NFL.
`Most have gone undiagnosed,` he said. `An athlete has foot pain for a year or two, can't push off and leaves the NFL.`
That's what I thought about Manning.
How will this defense play when our offense can't stay on the field?
How will this defense play when we are down by 14 & can't stop the run?
Endcoachment, you may be right and it may not be a Lisfranc, as I even eluded to before. But it could also be a Lisfranc with minimal joint displacement and thus minimal ligament damage. You'd be surprised as to what some people can temporarily tolerate when they are "shot up."
You might remember Ram’s DE Jack Youngblood. He played the entire 1979 playoffs, including Super Bowl XIV, with a fractured fibula. A week later, he also played in the 1980 Pro Bowl with that sane injured leg.
Or if you want a more contemporary example, Donovan McNabb who was sacked in a game in 2001 against the Cardinals. He grabbed his leg, but got up.....walked to the sidelines........was diagnosed as an ankle sprain and taped up......and returned to complete the entire game. After the game, x-rays revealed that he had not only sustained A fracture of the fibula, but he had sustained THREE separate fractures of the fibula. BTW, in that game, he passed for 255 yds (20 for 25) and 4 Tds. Following that game, McNabb went on to undergo surgery, missing the last 6 weeks of the season and returned for a playoff game in which he demonstrated that he was still not fully recovered.
The Bulls’ rookie player sustained a “leg sprain” in the 2011 playoffs. He was taped up and returned to finish out the rest of the game, after which it was discovered that he too had actually been playing on a fractured fibula. Surgery and out for the rest of the playoffs.
This is only a few examples. None were made better by the experience of going back out there, and each required subsequent surgery and a long rehab.
After RB Duce Staley sustained a Lisfranc fracture, his trainer, the Eagles head trainer Rick Burkholder said:
link
If the Titans (5-4) win out, they'll be 12-4, that would include beating us Jan 1
If the Texans (7-3) win every game but that last one, we'll be 12-4. So you are right, they do not control their own destiny.
However, he's probably thinking we'll lose at least one other game with the change in QB; Atlanta, Cincy, maybe even the Jags.
So we only need to lose 2 of the next 6 & they could possibly win the division.
I'm not saying anything until I see them vs Atlanta. If CJ2ypc has his game back, they could go on a run.
We've never been 7-3 before, but we've never been 11-5 either. I'm not doom & gloom'n because of Lienart, because I think he'll be alright, but I've been worried about Tennessee from the beginning.
They beat Baltimore, we didn't. If they beat Atlanta & we don't. If they beat New Orleans, where we didn't, it would also give them the tie-breaker. Especially if we lose to the Jags & end up with the same division record as Tennessee (assuming they beat us at Reliant).
That's what I thought about Manning.
How will this defense play when our offense can't stay on the field?
How will this defense play when we are down by 14 & can't stop the run?
So, basically you're saying Schaub needs to suck it up, quit being such a pucee, and play ball like the players you referenced?
Yes. I like it!
This is only a few examples. None were made better by the experience of going back out there, and each required subsequent surgery and a long rehab.
That's basically what I heard Schaub say in a radio interview on 610am an hour ago. I think they are trying to find a way to get Schaub back by the playoffs.Especially considering the fact that the story you are referring specifically states that Kubiak WOULDN"T CONFIRM a lisfranc injury.
Heck, Tate is looking like the best back from that draft. Would probably be a 1st rounder in a re-draft....and Tate is on a mission to show that he's worth that 2nd round pick.
What an unexpectedly smart azz and condescending response.
Especially considering the fact that the story you are referring specifically states that Kubiak WOULDN"T CONFIRM a lisfranc injury.
Link:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82426611/article/kubiak-says-texans-will-know-more-about-schaub-next-week?module=HP11_headline_stack
Sooooo.... when do we see the MRI tweet?
Lot's of "if's" in all that TK. I see the point you're trying to make, but you can't make completely unrealistic assumptions about the Tacks while making very reasonable ones about the Texans.If the Titans (5-4) win out, they'll be 12-4, that would include beating us Jan 1
If the Texans (7-3) win every game but that last one, we'll be 12-4. So you are right, they do not control their own destiny.
However, he's probably thinking we'll lose at least one other game with the change in QB; Atlanta, Cincy, maybe even the Jags.
So we only need to lose 2 of the next 6 & they could possibly win the division.
I'm not saying anything until I see them vs Atlanta. If CJ2ypc has his game back, they could go on a run.
We've never been 7-3 before, but we've never been 11-5 either. I'm not doom & gloom'n because of Lienart, because I think he'll be alright, but I've been worried about Tennessee from the beginning.
They beat Baltimore, we didn't. If they beat Atlanta & we don't. If they beat New Orleans, where we didn't, it would also give them the tie-breaker. Especially if we lose to the Jags & end up with the same division record as Tennessee (assuming they beat us at Reliant).