SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Wipe on........Wipe off........still Wiped out.........
Ha ha good one Doc. BTW, it is MIYAGI not MIAGI.
Go Texans!!!
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Schaub injured (update)
- Thread starter TexansFanatic
- Start date
Ha ha good one Doc. BTW, it is MIYAGI not MIAGI.
Go Texans!!!
This may, or may not, be a career ending injury.
But they most certainly should draft as if it were.
GNTLEWOLF
Rookie
Surely, as smart as the Texans FO is they have already forseen this. I wonder if they have anybody in mind, or if they are just going with the Luck of the draw....
Doppelganger
None
RGIII has all but played himself into the first round. I seriously doubt the Texans take a QB within the first 3 rounds. First 2 rounds are expected to start or play STs. They may take one in the 4th, but remember, Yates was JUST drafted last year. Kubes may see him as a successor.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I agree completely. Sure would be nice to have him on the bench for a couple years. A guy w that speed AND a big arm in our system would look mighty good. #PipeDream
Wipe on........Wipe off........still Wiped out.........
Just wondering, are you an MSK radiologist?
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Robert Griffin the 3rd, QB for the Baylor Bears. He had a phenomenal game last night against the Sooners. Love to have the kid on the Texans but it's a pipe dream as he will highly sought after with his skill set.
Peldon
Rookie
Robert Griffin III - Baylor QB
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
THANKS guys! I even watched that game last night and didn't pick up on the name!! Just don't pay that much attention, my bad, and I'm a Baylor fan. The old "Baptist" in me I guess. Always wanted to go there, but, ended up at HBU instead. A college with NO football!! go figure!!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
THANKS guys! I even watched that game last night and didn't pick up on the name!! Just don't pay that much attention, my bad, and I'm a Baylor fan. The old "Baptist" in me I guess. Always wanted to go there, but, ended up at HBU instead. A college with NO football!! go figure!!
Probably gave you a chance to pay attention to studying more.............Sorry it screwed up your football career........But it made you a damned good nurse!
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Probably gave you a chance to pay attention to studying more.............Sorry it screwed up your football career........But it made you a damned good nurse!
Thanks Jean!! I think it's about time for that "nursing" career to come to an end! Retirement's sounding mighty good these days.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Doc ?
Could continuing to play on his injury or simply walking around on the sideline made things worse?
Could continuing to play on his injury or simply walking around on the sideline made things worse?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Your question that has been asked but not really answered before, is would continuing to play on this injury and walking on it even in the boot on the sidelines have made things worse?
Many orthopedic studies have demonstrated that the most important prognostic factor in Lisfranc is directly related to the obtaining correct anatomic reduction. It has been shown that those patients with an adequate anatomic reduction obtain a higher score in functional scale and present a lower prevalence of post-traumatic degenerative disease of the joint.
Taking a conservative (nonsurgical) approach by choosing the use of closed (nonincisional) reduction (of the joint and fracture) and cast boot is not usually advocated in this type of injury since it carries with it a high rate of reduction loss of anatomic alignment (and thus loss of the functionally important normal arch of the foot).
Emergency (immediate) surgical treatment with open reduction and internal fixation is considered the most ideal approach in that it gives the more stable fixation, lower rate of secondary displacement and lower risk of secondary osteoarthritis. I say "emergency" surgery, meaning before the massive swelling that can occur if the diagnosis is not made and acted on immediately. In most cases, the significant swelling is not immediate (especially in the more moderate injuries and if the foot is immediately iced, compressed and elevated) but maximizes at ~48 hours after which you may need to wait for 7-10 days before the swelling resolves enough that you can more accurately and more safely perform the surgery. This delay in surgery could lead to some compromise of the anatomic reduction. The ideal would be performing the surgery within 12-24 hours following the injury.
Certainly, allowing continued weight bearing either out of or in a boot encourages further separation and misalignment of the joint(s), and damage to the involved tendons and surrounding blood vessels and nerves, while guaranteeing the acceleration and maximization of the undesireable swelling process.
I have found out that Schaub will be seeing Dr. Robert Anderson in Charlottsville. He is a Lisfranc specialist who has been involved in the care of a number of NFL players with this problem. Brady Quinn, Ronnie Brown, and Eric Decker are a few that come to mind.
If I read this correctly, Schaub could've easily excarbated the situation by continuing to play after the injury. Schaub being on record as saying his foot's the size of a cinder block precludes any question of emergency surgury. This leads to the logical conclusion that we can look forward to Leinart the rest of the season and hope and pray that Schaub is healthy by TC next year. Is that a correct assessment of the facts, so far?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It's probably pretty much right on IF we are getting anywhere close to the true diagnosis.
The question we do not have answered is what will the final approach to Schaub's injury be..........nonsurgical or surgical.
This is the answer I posted to Obsiwan as to what I feel would be a realistic expectation for this season in either case (with the limited information we have):
Reading that Quinn,Brown and Decker made it back from this injury gives me hope that Schaub will be fine next yr.
What worries me is Brown is a shell of his former self and Bryant Westbrook was never the same after sustaining these injuries. Along with the fact that Schaub wasn't exactly mobile pre-injury. What are the odds Schaub loses a step or two?
If they are good now should be the time for the Texans to start looking for another QB. Mobility is a big requirement for the WC offense and as you know he doesn't have a step or two to lose.
What worries me is Brown is a shell of his former self and Bryant Westbrook was never the same after sustaining these injuries. Along with the fact that Schaub wasn't exactly mobile pre-injury. What are the odds Schaub loses a step or two?
If they are good now should be the time for the Texans to start looking for another QB. Mobility is a big requirement for the WC offense and as you know he doesn't have a step or two to lose.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A QB probably has less to lose with a loss of mobility and pushoff than an RB or WR or any other player for that matter. How much Schaub will be affected long term is not predictable.........but one thing for sure........he won't come out of this MORE mobile.at this point. But this year, Schaub we now find out has been playing through hip and shoulder problems besides this latest injury. It appears that these injuries have affected his performance this year.
The Texans should be very honest in their assessments. If appropriate to the total picture, if there is any concern as to his longevity, at minimum there should be a concerted effort to seek a worthy #2 that has a good chance of being turned into a legitimate #1 QB (if not Leinart, then someone else).
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Texans' Schaub to see foot specialist Wednesday in Charlotte
It's kinda weird to look at this from the experience I had from my LisFranc injury. You have to keep that foot elevated higher than your heart during the entire time you can't put any weight on it, in which case causes atrophy in the entire leg.
Like Cloak, I wish I knew more details. It would interest me greatly to know what kind of surgery is in store, like how many plates and screws, is fusion being considered, will they need to do a bone graft, etc.
So just going from what little I know, I will be shocked if he's ready for training camp next season. He throws right handed, which means he needs to plant on his right (injured) foot. I'm not concerned about any decrease in mobility. What I am concerned about, is his future ability to accurately throw the ball. Any stiffness, weakness, or imbalance, in the arch of his plant foot will have a direct effect on accuracy.
Like Cloak, I wish I knew more details. It would interest me greatly to know what kind of surgery is in store, like how many plates and screws, is fusion being considered, will they need to do a bone graft, etc.
So just going from what little I know, I will be shocked if he's ready for training camp next season. He throws right handed, which means he needs to plant on his right (injured) foot. I'm not concerned about any decrease in mobility. What I am concerned about, is his future ability to accurately throw the ball. Any stiffness, weakness, or imbalance, in the arch of his plant foot will have a direct effect on accuracy.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
EDIT: finally got above link diagram to print out here directly (note that there is no horizontal stabilizing ligament connecting the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones.):
Why that's just poor engineering. Who's responsible for this?EDIT: finally got above link diagram to print out here directly (note that there is no horizontal stabilizing ligament connecting the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones.):
j/k
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Why that's just poor engineering. Who's responsible for this?
j/k
Blame Canada?
Goatcheese
Texan
With their beady little eyes and flapping heads so full of lies?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If there were multiple fractures involved in the Lisfranc, I can't even imagine a scenario where surgery would not have been the only realistic and prudent treatment from the beginning. I guess the beads and gords approach didn't impress the 2nd and 3rd opinions either.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The guy wanted to play. He wanted to cash in on all the hard work he's put in to get to this point. If we make it to the playoffs, Schaub (and Mario, but mostly Schaub) is like Moses. He led us to the promised land but didn't get to go there himself.
He was just hoping to find someone to give him the chance to go to the promised land.
This was my ultimate fear with Andre. Him being the biggest part of our team for such a long time and him not being able to be a part of it this year when all he's ever wanted is to win. Hopefully he can stay healthy the remainder of the year and hopefully through our SB run.
Doppelganger
None
Doc,
Perhaps you have answered this question, if so I apologize ahead of time.
With the revelation that there were multiple fractures and we appear to be looking at a probable LisFranc injury, it appears that surgery may be the only option. What kind of time frame would you estimate for return to play recovery time? Is this the kind of injury that may take away 2012 as well?
Just because McClain says there were multiple fractures doesn't mean there were multiple fractures.
He was probably eying the donuts when they were going over the details.
I'm betting those "small fractures" were avulsion fractures. The LisFranc ligament is actually stronger than bone, so instead of the ligament tearing away from bone, you have ligament tearing off small pieces of bone.
Regarding recovery time, remember, he hasn't even had surgery yet.
Regarding recovery time, remember, he hasn't even had surgery yet.
TejasTom
All Pro
So true. I want confirmation from another source.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Following the anticipated surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months, during which time he cannot weight bear at all. Then probably another 3-6 more months to adequately rehab.
After that, taking for granted that the actual surgery was successful, there can be residual stiffness of the foot and at least 50% develop arthritis with accompanying chronic pain. The degree of severity of the aforementioned essentially dictates the long-term effects on performance. As I have mentioned, performance deficits would more likely to be noticed in players that require a great deal of push off against resistance and those likely to require landing forcefully on the ball of the foot. Of all the positions, it seems likely that the QB position would be one of the least affected. If there is a problem with a QB, it would likely be in an affected plant foot (as is the case of Schaub), where the strength and accuracy of a throw can be significantly impacted.
Schaub has a very good chance of coming back, but only time will tell us if he will end up in the fortunate group that is little affected, or if his long-term performance takes somewhat of a downturn.
ugh...
so worse case, we're looking at the beginning of OTAs and mini-camp next year before the screws are even taken out. Then all of training camp and preseason to re-hab sufficiently enough to start playing again.
We could be looking at Leinart as the starter next Sept. with Schaub being on the PUP list until late Oct.
You can hear Schaub say it himself here
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d82469862/Schaub-It-s-tough-to-take
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Marcus, although it could also be a mid-metatarsal fracture, this is my post of one week ago (which goes along with what are pointing out):
Here could be the most likely type of injury (which includes a Lisfranc with "fracture") that has the Texans in a quandry whether they should take the chance of going conservative.
The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
We have confirmation of it being a Lisfranc fracture.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/111123-matt-schaub%3A-%27it%27s-unfortunate%2C-tough-to-swallow%27#ixzz1eb5W2RF7
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Actually, worse case scenario could be more troublesome. We are told that he indeed has accompanying "small fractures" but are not told if these are within the joint or outside of the joint. If they are within the joint, the arthritic changes and pains are associated much more often in these injuries than in Lisfranc injuries that do not include fractures.
[In the x-ray below, note the small fractures (between arrows), that involve the Lisfranc joints]
These type of postoperative problems do not infrequently lead to a 3rd surgery........i.e., a fusion of the joint, which has a good chance of correcting the problems. If the particular situation dictates, the surgeon may in some cases perform fusion during the primary surgery in order to try to avoid the problem. Also, after removal of hardware, in a small number of cases, the midfoot arch can re-collapse and require fusion. There are some surgeons which, again in particular cases, may choose to leave hardware in. But, the hardware can break under the stress placed upon an athlete's reconstructed foot, and further surgery is then necessary.
So these are the so-called "worse case scenarios" that I can think of involving a Lisfranc fracture injury. Hopefully, Schaub avoids them all and we can adequately assess his potential return performance by the beginning of the 2012 season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In response to other posters' question of if there is a video out there of the play, I finally found a VIDEO OF THE PLAY LEADING TO SCHAUB'S INJURY [Near the beginning of the video, they circle highlight the position of Schaub's foot as Haynesworth comes down on it]