McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

[steelbtexan]

& then there are the armchair GM's/coaches/owners/player fans who think they're being better fans somehow b/c they criticize every single thing organization does warranted or otherwise. Those that don't subscribe wholeheartedly to their philosophy are labeled, homers, sunshiners or "uber" fans.

What would you criticize the Texans about and the way they have gone about their business?

 

[Mr teX]

No they haven't and no one outside of Texans homerville has ever pointed that out. As a matter of fact the Texans get criticized practically every year going into the season for doing hardly anything to improve their team outside of the draft.



I-cak has shown it in other threads, you just refuse to acknowledge it. Just b/c they don't sign the big name guys you or a few others like or want, doesn't mean they don't/haven't spent. There's only so many of those caliber of guys to go around. For those teams who don't sign those caliber of players, what do you think they're doing in FA? Chances are the exact same thing the texans are. & before you go off on a tirade about "well, they're all losers too" i can assure you, they're not.



You're right. We have no GM here that knows how to "sell" to players. Our GM is a half ass GM that shares the duties with Kubiak the dumbass and between both of them neither one of them knows how to paint a pretty picture for our future here. This isn't a rocket science question. It's real simple. You communicate with players or their agents and present what you plan on doing for the future to make both units top notch units and make them believe that they're an early part of that. You create excitement for that free agent to come here and be part of something huge. That, and you obviously have to pay them what they're worth at least. It's not that hard to sell a game plan to someone. If it's a guy like Nnamdi, you tell him that you're going to stack the secondary and your main focus will be to get good guys up front to rush the passer and that defense will become a huge focus since the offense is already great and that Nnamdi is going to be an essential part of that in the quest to winning a SB which is only a year or two away and that Houston will be a great place to retire.

Your mentality always seems with free agents always seems to be "we can't, we can't, we shouldn't, we shouldn't". It's a pessimistic style of thinking everything you might want to do to improve your team is a huge risk that will blow up unless it's drafting a bunch of unproven rookies to fill holes.

Go ask Morey how easy it is to lure top FA's here. reading your rationalization, we should have either Bosh or Melo here, no sweat....& he's a GM that everyone thinks is doing a good job! It's not pessimisim, it's realism. Real in the sense that short of doing something ridiculous, it's not as easy as you claim, real in the sense that it's not just 1 person/group that's the problem & real in the sense that, at the end of the day, i don't pretend to know what goes on at kirby.

 

[Mr teX]

What would you criticize the Texans about and the way they have gone about their business?

Drafting, that's the only real thing imo.

FA moves...ehh too much out of their control to really criticize them for that.

Game day gaffes, Kubiak certainly has his fair share of them, but every coach does.

 

[GP]

Drafting, that's the only real thing imo.

FA moves...ehh too much out of their control to really criticize them for that.

Game day gaffes, Kubiak certainly has his fair share of them, but every coach does.

So in other words, there isn't much control the coaches/GM/players have over the end result of each season?

According to you, we're just a victim of circumstance(s)? The poor drafting is the LEAST of this fan's worries because THAT is a big crap shoot to begin with. The other two things you've listed are definitely things that the Texans staff are easily responsible for, and it's not too hard to overcome.

Either a person has "it," or he doesn't. And if the top people in the organization can't fall as OUT of love with a coach and/or player as quickly as they fell IN love with 'em then there's the problem right there, IMO.

 

[Mr teX]

So in other words, there isn't much control the coaches/GM/players have over the end result of each season?

According to you, we're just a victim of circumstance(s)? The poor drafting is the LEAST of this fan's worries because THAT is a big crap shoot to begin with. The other two things you've listed are definitely things that the Texans staff are easily responsible for, and it's not too hard to overcome.

Either a person has "it," or he doesn't. And if the top people in the organization can't fall as OUT of love with a coach and/or player as quickly as they fell IN love with 'em then there's the problem right there, IMO.

:vincepalm: It that what you got out of that post?

You can control what you do in the draft much more than you can in FA. You can choose the player YOU want (based on availability of course) & if you pick that player, he's gotta sign with you if he wants to play in the NFL as you have his rights...end of story, period. If you don't pick a quality player, that's on you.

The long & short of FA without delving into Restricted FA, franchise tagging & all the other crap is that teams don't have much if any control over whether the player comes to play for you or not. Sure, you can target who you want, get dressed up in your sunday best & if all else fails, beg & pleed with said targeted player but at the end of the day, said player Ultimately has the say so if he wants to come play for you or not. & as i have stated 7890756789567 times there are many reasons for that. Not just the select few you endorse to satisfy your agenda. This is why FA was such a big deal in the last player strike........The players wanted some say so in where they played & how they were dealt with.


it's not that they're "a victim of circumstance" as you incorrectly assume i put it, more of they are 1 many vying for the services of a select few & the odds are stacked against them that they will lose just by the sheer numbers of it. Again, if it was so easy as you & a few others say it is, then why was the almighty Darryl Morey unable to lure Bosh or Melo here? I mean you think he does a good job right? We had the "upper hand" with Carlos Beltran, why couldn't we keep him here?

What is with you dude. You don't think that 20 something other teams get the same results the texans get when they go after top FA's or something? You don't think that those other teams patch spots on their team once they lose out on top guys in FA?

& if you can find me a coach who hasn't screwed up in a game situation please share.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

"It's beyond my control" is an appropriate retort for an individual experiencing an epileptic seizure.........not for NFL owners, GMs and HCs experiencing one-half to one full decade of losing.

 

[ObsiWan]

:vincepalm: It that what you got out of that post?

You can control what you do in the draft much more than you can in FA. You can choose the player YOU want (based on availability of course) & if you pick that player, he's gotta sign with you if he wants to play in the NFL as you have his rights...end of story, period. If you don't pick a quality player, that's on you.

The long & short of FA without delving into Restricted FA, franchise tagging & all the other crap is that teams don't have much if any control over whether the player comes to play for you or not. Sure, you can target who you want, get dressed up in your sunday best & if all else fails, beg & pleed with said targeted player but at the end of the day, said player Ultimately has the say so if he wants to come play for you or not. & as i have stated 7890756789567 times there are many reasons for that. Not just the select few you endorse to satisfy your agenda. This is why FA was such a big deal in the last player strike........The players wanted some say so in where they played & how they were dealt with.


it's not that they're "a victim of circumstance" as you incorrectly assume i put it, more of they are 1 many vying for the services of a select few & the odds are stacked against them that they will lose just by the sheer numbers of it. Again, if it was so easy as you & a few others say it is, then why was the almighty Darryl Morey unable to lure Bosh or Melo here? I mean you think he does a good job right? We had the "upper hand" with Carlos Beltran, why couldn't we keep him here?

What is with you dude. You don't think that 20 something other teams get the same results the texans get when they go after top FA's or something? You don't think that those other teams patch spots on their team once they lose out on top guys in FA?

& if you can find me a coach who hasn't screwed up in a game situation please share.

I love reasonable discussion.

One thing though; I'll bet those other 20 something teams who don't land the splashy free agent have reactionary fans who rant on local message boards and radio call-in shows just as we do.

And when the splashy free agent they'd "targeted" crashes and burns (see Haynesworth) they NEVER call back in and say, "damn, I was sure waaay wrong about him, I'm glad he signed over there instead of over here."

Check out this Walter Football link for their assessment of good, bad, and average F/A moves so far this year. Here's a taste...

Texans re-sign TE Owen Daniels: 4 years, $22 million; $6 million guaranteed - Good Move
Owen Daniels is one of the top tight ends in the NFL. He's coming off an injury, so the Texans are lucky enough to get him at a discounted rate.

Good example of not doing something "we think is crazy" IMHO. Even so, I'll bet some of you disagree with this move. "Man, they should have traded OD for some picks while he has value. Dreesen is good enough...."

and can someone tell me WTH a bunpan is...?


Edit:
Dammit, I promised myself I wouldn't come back until we knew there would at least be real football this September.

Dammit!!Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.

 

[Texecutioner]

Go ask Morey how easy it is to lure top FA's here. reading your rationalization, we should have either Bosh or Melo here, no sweat....& he's a GM that everyone thinks is doing a good job! It's not pessimisim, it's realism. Real in the sense that short of doing something ridiculous, it's not as easy as you claim, real in the sense that it's not just 1 person/group that's the problem & real in the sense that, at the end of the day, i don't pretend to know what goes on at kirby.

And see this is literally the worst example you could have tried to use. And bringing Morey into this goes against every point you're trying to make if you're referring to me actually. Notice, you've never ever heard me criticize Morey and the Rockets haven't done jack in the NBA under Morey. However, Morey is a total bad ass. He's made all types of trades letting go of certain players at the right time and all types of moves bringing in free agents for low prices. Morey is constantly moving and shaking and beating down on other GM's. I love the guy. Look at any post of mine regarding Morey and you'll see nothing but praise and admiration from me. For you to even put Smithiak in the same breath as Morey is an insult that you should apologize for.

And the NBA is waaaaayy harder to land top stars in than the NFL is. Morey's job is ten times harder than Rick Smith and Morey is way better at it. He's a real pro GM. Morey has to operate in a league with a lack of superstars and with guaranteed contracts. GM's in the NFL get to deal with contracts where they can release players out of bad contracts. Morey is dealing with a league where players are a lot more of a crap shoot now days in a league where the small market cities get dumped on by the league where the NFL is much more balanced. Morey does a whole lot more with less and that he's always gotten admiration from me.

 

[Texecutioner]

:vincepalm: It that what you got out of that post?

You can control what you do in the draft much more than you can in FA. You can choose the player YOU want (based on availability of course) & if you pick that player, he's gotta sign with you if he wants to play in the NFL as you have his rights...end of story, period. If you don't pick a quality player, that's on you.

You have everything backwards. Either that or you're just spinning things as usual. You can't control things or your destiny better with the draft. That's crazy. In free agency you know what you're getting. You've got a commodity and you've been able to see what the player has been able to do on the pro level. You have a good idea of what kind of person he is and if he conducts himself like a professional. With the draft you've got a ton of rookies that have never played on the pro level before and all of them have question marks here and there. Even if you get a guy that's talented as hell and can play, you still have to make sure that he doesn't have major character issues or thug behavior. Then if he doesn't have that, you need to make sure he can play on the pro level and start from season one and actually fill a big need on a unit. There are all sorts of rookies with all types of talent that look like a "can't miss" that end up being busts. With free agency you know what you've got if you're going after a great player. You know if he's worth that amount of money and you know what kind of impact he can make.

Also in the draft you've got no idea what players will be drafted before your picks come up. There might be one guy that fills a need. Will he there, will he not? Is there another guy at that position just as good? It's way to much of a crap shoot in the draft and in the first round where you can end up drastically over paying. The Texans have not faired well in their drafts either. They've gotten a few quality starters here and there, but ultimately they've gambled strictly on the draft have gotten little return from it. All these guys like Molden, Okam, Bennett, and multiple others could haven't been any type of help. Draft picks are overrated as hell.

it's not that they're "a victim of circumstance" as you incorrectly assume i put it, more of they are 1 many vying for the services of a select few & the odds are stacked against them that they will lose just by the sheer numbers of it. Again, if it was so easy as you & a few others say it is, then why was the almighty Darryl Morey unable to lure Bosh or Melo here? I mean you think he does a good job right? We had the "upper hand" with Carlos Beltran, why couldn't we keep him here?

And see the more you keep trying to justify lack of action on Smithiak by using other sports with completely different rules and salary cap terms show that you don't know what you're talking about at all. You're having to go towards other sports to try and paint things differently when they aren't even comparable at all. Every example from other sports you keep trying to use goes against your point as well. When you thought those up and posted them you should have realized that they make Smithiak look even worse.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Round!!! Someone give me a round!! A .38 would work, a 9mm is good, or a 3 1/2", 12 gauge shotgun shell would work!!

So many geniuses, so little intelligence...

 

[Surreal McCoy]

I see the moanfest is still in full force on TT - nice to know I haven't missed anything. People still complaining about not being guaranteed a winner within 10 years :wadepalm: Nevermind the fact the fact there was no football in Houston for six years. Maybe if you guys could think about it as a down payment of sorts, then you've only had a losing football for four years instead. Would that make it feel better, Diddums?

 

[Lucky]

Maybe if you guys could think about it as a down payment of sorts, then you've only had a losing football for four years instead.

That makes me feel much better. Thanks for sharing your pretzel logic.

 

[Mr teX]

And see this is literally the worst example you could have tried to use. And bringing Morey into this goes against every point you're trying to make if you're referring to me actually. Notice, you've never ever heard me criticize Morey and the Rockets haven't done jack in the NBA under Morey. However, Morey is a total bad ass. He's made all types of trades letting go of certain players at the right time and all types of moves bringing in free agents for low prices. Morey is constantly moving and shaking and beating down on other GM's. I love the guy. Look at any post of mine regarding Morey and you'll see nothing but praise and admiration from me. For you to even put Smithiak in the same breath as Morey is an insult that you should apologize for.

And the NBA is waaaaayy harder to land top stars in than the NFL is. Morey's job is ten times harder than Rick Smith and Morey is way better at it. He's a real pro GM. Morey has to operate in a league with a lack of superstars and with guaranteed contracts. GM's in the NFL get to deal with contracts where they can release players out of bad contracts. Morey is dealing with a league where players are a lot more of a crap shoot now days in a league where the small market cities get dumped on by the league where the NFL is much more balanced. Morey does a whole lot more with less and that he's always gotten admiration from me.

Ridiculous & laughable posts. WAAAYY harder to land top FA's in the NBA than it is in the NFL? Lack of superstars in the NBA? Really now?

1.) the nba's entire marketing scheme is around its superstars. I highly doubt they'd continue to undertake this strategy if there was this "lack of talent" you claim there is. Hell, one of the worst teams in the nba just had a guy set a record for double doubles in a season.

2.) The sheer numbers of it just don't add up. with 15 man rosters, i would think that the "talent" is much less diluted than it is in the NFL who have to field 53 man rosters. In addition to this, explain to me how Miami was able to land 3 of the top 10 players in the game in 1 offseason? How about NY landing Amare in that same offseason & then snagging Melo later in the same season? How about our very own rockets snagging Clyde midseason which proved to be the catalyst for our 2nd championship? Crap like that happens all the time in the NBA & many times changes the fortunes of teams in mid-season. & you really want to sit up here & say that there's a lack of talent in the NBA & that it's waayyy harder to land FA's in the NBA than it is in the NFL? Give me a break dude.


Who cares how much props you give morey & what you think of him, that's not the discussion. I posed a legit question & you came back with this mularkey. Tex, your posts are normally sound & most times make some sense...but now you're just reaching.

 

[GP]

Ridiculous & laughable posts. WAAAYY harder to land top FA's in the NBA than it is in the NFL? Lack of superstars in the NBA? Really now?

1.) the nba's entire marketing scheme is around its superstars. I highly doubt they'd continue to undertake this strategy if there was this "lack of talent" you claim there is. Hell, one of the worst teams in the nba just had a guy set a record for double doubles in a season. You're trying to justify your logic, and you're sinking in your reasoning. In the NBA, you have to have a few "superstars" to accomplish anything. The Lakers are essentially Kobe Bryant and four other guys. Without him, they lose. Without LeBron, the Cavs are just five guys out there...and they're losing. Badly. The NBA and the NFL are worlds apart in terms of what makes for a good "team' as it relates to success on the playing surface. You know this to be true, but now you've thrown out an invented defense of your reasoning. Are you seriously saying that "How the NBA markets its superstars" is a valid, logical defense of your assertions? Come now. We're all adults here.

2.) The sheer numbers of it just don't add up. with 15 man rosters, i would think that the "talent" is much less diluted than it is in the NFL who have to field 53 man rosters. With only five guys on the court, versus 11 on a football field, and how the entire rules, court size/football field size, and how each game actually operates within that whole framework, YES it is possible for an NBA team to have a Kobe Bryant and just dominate the opponent. Again, slow down long enough to think about it and I know you'll wish you hadn't gone down this avenue of reasoning. You accuse me of trying to "win the debate" but I'm not the one throwing out wild examples and essentially taking this conversation into the murky waters you're dragging it into. Slow down and take a breath, think about it for a sec. That people such as texecutioner and myself would even continue to travel along the road with you on this is entertaining to the others, I would imagine. In addition to this, explain to me how Miami was able to land 3 of the top 10 players in the game in 1 offseason? Uh, maybe because they are trying to beat Kobe Bryant and it takes three superstars (Boston, for example) to get it done? What other team has come close to dethroning the guy? He's entered Michael Jordan status now, as much as I hate to even speak it out loud. How about NY landing Amare in that same offseason & then snagging Melo later in the same season? Same thing. The new "fad" is to try and get a trio of superstars to simply overwhelm the other team's single superstar. How about our very own rockets snagging Clyde midseason which proved to be the catalyst for our 2nd championship? Crap like that happens all the time in the NBA & many times changes the fortunes of teams in mid-season. & you really want to sit up here & say that it's waayyy harder to land FA's in the NBA than it is in the NFL? Give me a break dude. You can stop it with all the "pal" and "bro" and "dude" stuff. I know I started it, but notice how I stopped it and refuse to do it anymore with you. We're now into the arena of ideas, and should exclude the patronizing. Ideas are the focus, and your idea is not winning. NBA and NFL are two different beasts altogether. I'd rather try and compare MLB and NFL, since there's more in common than with the NBA.


Who cares how much props you give morey & what you think of him, that's not the discussion. Well, who brought up Morey in the first place? YOU entered his name into the discussion and now you deem that he can't be discussed? Look, once again you're trying to change the rules of this discussion once you see it's not working to your advantage. I applaud your passion, but the mechanics of your debate skills are lacking. I posed a legit question & you came back with this mularkey. Tex, your posts are normally sound & most times make some sense...but now you're just reaching. LOL. Nice wrap-up strategy: Flail your arms around, make big noise, and then accuse your opponent of doing what you've been doing this whole time. A wise man once said, "When you find yourself in a hole you can't get out of...stop digging." Are you going to continue digging until you reach China? You've dragged this conversation down so many twisting roads and darkened alleys, man...well, where were we to begin with???

My comments are in red.

 

[El Tejano]

We're not going to do something we think is crazy. We're going to do something that's just plain stuipid!

 

[GP]

I wonder if we're approaching territory?

 

[Mr teX]

My comments are in red.

:vincepalm: Your reasoning is flat out garbage. LOL at Kobe & four other guys. Yeah, Pau Gasol is straight up trash. I guess with your reasoning it was Jordan & 4 other guys too then huh? Scottie Pippen was pretty much just along for the ride.


I give up, you win..it's clear you're too caught up in your agenda to think with any kind of reasonable common sense.

 

[disaacks3]

I see the moanfest is still in full force on TT - nice to know I haven't missed anything. People still complaining about not being guaranteed a winner within 10 years :wadepalm: Nevermind the fact the fact there was no football in Houston for six years. Maybe if you guys could think about it as a down payment of sorts, then you've only had a losing football for four years instead. Would that make it feel better, Diddums?

I never asked to be "guaranteed" anything. I would like McNair to step out of his comfort zone and hire guys with successful records and a decent amount of experience. While we're at it, how about signing Pro bowl caliber FAs when they're available? Keeping Kubiak after last year and stating "we're on the right track" isn't conducive to keeping a loyal fanbase happy.

 

[HoustonFrog]

:vincepalm: Your reasoning is flat out garbage. LOL at Kobe & four other guys. Yeah, Pau Gasol is straight up trash. I guess with your reasoning it was Jordan & 4 other guys too then huh? Scottie Pippen was pretty much just along for the ride.


I give up, you win..it's clear you're too caught up in your agenda to think with any kind of reasonable common sense.

I'm not taking sides but you do know you are pretty much ignoring your own sunshiney posts no matter how much you try and spin it. That is why it goes around and around. Reread this one and you'll see why you got slammed. You pretty much left football results in the hands of the unseen football gods with this one. With all due respect of course.

Drafting, that's the only real thing imo.

FA moves...ehh too much out of their control to really criticize them for that.

Game day gaffes, Kubiak certainly has his fair share of them, but every coach does.

Ok, back to religion or something else for me

 

[Mr teX]

I'm not taking sides but you do know you are pretty much are ignoring your own sunshiney posts no matter how much you try and spin it. That is why it goes around and around. Reread this one and you'll see why you got slammed. You pretty much left football results in the hands of the unseen football gods with this one. With all due respect of course.


Ok, back to religion or something else for me

I'm not spinning anything.

I & many others have acknowleged that Kubiak & Smith have done poorly.

I & many others have acknowledged that the organization hasn't exactly brought in great pro bowlers in via FA.

It can't be disputed, its fact.

Where the disagreement is is that these guys flat out refuse to acknowledge any other reasons for this teams failures other than what's on their plate....."the reason why this or that isn't happening is b/c _____________ isn't doing this or that." Doesn't matter if It has been shown to them in a number of different ways that some of their notions are either flat out wrong (Mcnair being cheap) or that they possibly couldn't know due to them being outside of the FO over on Kirby. It basically alll connected for them & that its total out of the realm of possibility that there are other reasons outside of their control that yield more influence than the ones they have in their heads why this or that doesn't happen.


It's funny really. I've got 1 guy calling my posts & way of looking at things as "sunshiney" & another guy in the same thread calling them "pessimistic".

 

[Second Honeymoon]

I see the moanfest is still in full force on TT - nice to know I haven't missed anything. People still complaining about not being guaranteed a winner within 10 years :wadepalm: Nevermind the fact the fact there was no football in Houston for six years. Maybe if you guys could think about it as a down payment of sorts, then you've only had a losing football for four years instead. Would that make it feel better, Diddums?

nice rationalization. the good ole 'at least we have football' logic. i think Houston has some of the friendliest people in the country but absolutely some of the worst sports fans in the country. just clueless sheeple fans who think the idea of being a good fan is supporting anything with Houston on its jersey irregardless of performance. the same fans who think Bagwell is HOF worthy. the same fans who made excuse after excuse for Carr, McNair, and Kubiak/Smith. the same fans who ran Bud out of town even though he had good teams but race to McNair's defense even though Bud's product was FARRRRRRRRRR superior to this pile of crap we call the Texans.

Don't get me wrong. Bud was an ahole for leaving but don't act like Bob is some sort of football savior. We have the same amount of playoff appearances with the Texans that we had when we didn't have any football team at all.

Please Houston sports fan. Some of you need to grow a pair and maybe get out of your collective cocoon and wake up and smell the embarassment that is Texans football.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

I never asked to be "guaranteed" anything. I would like McNair to step out of his comfort zone and hire guys with successful records and a decent amount of experience. While we're at it, how about signing Pro bowl caliber FAs when they're available? Keeping Kubiak after last year and stating "we're on the right track" isn't conducive to keeping a loyal fanbase happy.

way to put it in perspective. these homering yayhoos just don't get it. the same guys who thought David jsut needed an Offensive Line. Remember this one. 'David is great and isn't the problem. You can't throw the football when you are lying on your back'. yeah the same local yokels who said that are now the same local yokels who act like Kubiak is hampered by anything other than him and Rick's utter incompetence. can't you guys listen. gary, the messiah, said it himself. 'Its on me."

Gary is an embarassment and just go back and watch the 4th and 1 1/2 play that he thought was 4th and 1/2 yard. that NEVER happens to anyone else in this league. it happened to Gary. We came from behind to lose more than ANY OTHER TEAM IN HISTORY. That is on Gary. His inability to attract defensive talent coaching or players is on him. he is just too afraid to go out of his little cocoon of suckitude to get defensive coaches. He might have to share his 'secrets' with them. I thought the idea was to win the game not hire cronies and lose. ugh, gary you suck.

some people will just never get it. they got their Texans underoos and their pompoms (Joe Texan comes to mind) and are nothing more than myopic cheerleaders who are still parading around celebrating 9-7 and the 'genius' that is Kubiak.

what is funny is that if 5-7 four years in a row doesn't show you that a team and its leader sucks...what the hell will. I guess some people have to have a 2-14 season before they will admit that the Texans suck. And yes the Texans suck....and its not gonna get any better, in fact, probably worse....and then everyone will act like they knew it all along when in fact, they were homering with the rest of the yayhoos around here.

just a pathetic pathetic excuse for a team if you ask me. and it starts up top. Bob, Gary, AND Rick suck.

 

[Mr teX]

nice rationalization. the good ole 'at least we have football' logic. i think Houston has some of the friendliest people in the country but absolutely some of the worst sports fans in the country. just clueless sheeple fans who think the idea of being a good fan is supporting anything with Houston on its jersey irregardless of performance. the same fans who think Bagwell is HOF worthy. the same fans who made excuse after excuse for Carr, McNair, and Kubiak/Smith. the same fans who ran Bud out of town even though he had good teams but race to McNair's defense even though Bud's product was FARRRRRRRRRR superior to this pile of crap we call the Texans.

Don't get me wrong. Bud was an ahole for leaving but don't act like Bob is some sort of football savior. We have the same amount of playoff appearances with the Texans that we had when we didn't have any football team at all.

Please Houston sports fan. Some of you need to grow a pair and maybe get out of your collective cocoon and wake up and smell the embarassment that is Texans football.

You sure got that right...starting with you.

 

[Texecutioner]

Ridiculous & laughable posts. WAAAYY harder to land top FA's in the NBA than it is in the NFL? Lack of superstars in the NBA? Really now?

Yeah, that's what I said. Where are the superstars on teams like the Pacers, Bucks, Rockets, Raptors, Warriors, Sixers, Wolves, Pistons, and so many other teams. Probably about 75% of the league is missing a true franchise player. The NBA is lacking them big time and any argument otherwise is just silly when you look at the few teams who have at least one and the majority that don't have one at all.

1.) the nba's entire marketing scheme is around its superstars. I highly doubt they'd continue to undertake this strategy if there was this "lack of talent" you claim there is. Hell, one of the worst teams in the nba just had a guy set a record for double doubles in a season.

Are you honestly acting like a that guy is a superstar?? A guy who gets double doubles, but isn't a top flight scorer? Was Dennis Rodman a superstar to you as well then, because that's not the type of player I'm talking about. I'm talking about franchise players that have the ability to lead your team deep in the post season.

2.) The sheer numbers of it just don't add up. with 15 man rosters, i would think that the "talent" is much less diluted than it is in the NFL who have to field 53 man rosters. In addition to this, explain to me how Miami was able to land 3 of the top 10 players in the game in 1 offseason? How about NY landing Amare in that same offseason & then snagging Melo later in the same season? How about our very own rockets snagging Clyde midseason which proved to be the catalyst for our 2nd championship? Crap like that happens all the time in the NBA & many times changes the fortunes of teams in mid-season. & you really want to sit up here & say that there's a lack of talent in the NBA & that it's waayyy harder to land FA's in the NBA than it is in the NFL? Give me a break dude.

You see now you're just drowning by trying to go as far back as to 1995. Lol!! That was a whole different type of league 15 years ago. The NBA isn't nearly the same when we got Clyde. I'm talking about "right now" and the NBA has a lot more teams where people hardly even know who plays for them and can't even name 3 players on the majority of these teams other than Boston, Orlando, LA, NY, Dallas, Miami, and SA. The rest of the league has a bunch of no name guys and old fading "has been" types of guys that were superstars a long time ago that are merely average players now days. Hardly anyone can even name who the top 3 picks of the draft were in the last 5 years. The NBA is hurting for talent and for a new generation of stars like crazy. The NFL is stacked with 2 full rounds of top talent.

Who cares how much props you give morey & what you think of him, that's not the discussion. I posed a legit question & you came back with this mularkey. Tex, your posts are normally sound & most times make some sense...but now you're just reaching.

Oh, so now it's not okay to discuss Morey anymore? Lol! So when you figure out that using him as an example only hurt your argument you don't want him to come into context anymore than ha? Like I pointed out before "since you asked" Morey works under a much different and more challenging market for players and he's a lot more busy around the league either cutting deals or busting his ass trying to cut deals with other teams. He's gained a reputation around the league for being a swindler actually. There is always reports about Morey trying to pull something off with a trade or on a negotiation with different players. He does a ton for me to know that he's out doing everything he can and that he's committed and Les Alexander has never been cheap. Smithiaknair come out and say publicly that our strategy is "to build through the draft" and "We're not going to do anything crazy". That's their own words. As for their actions, their refusal to do everything possible to acquire proven players to fill holes has hurt the Texans every year that Smithiak has been here. The results are proof of that.

 

[Mr teX]

Yeah, that's what I said. Where are the superstars on teams like the Pacers, Bucks, Rockets, Raptors, Warriors, Sixers, Wolves, Pistons, and so many other teams. Probably about 75% of the league is missing a true franchise player. The NBA is lacking them big time and any argument otherwise is just silly when you look at the few teams who have at least one and the majority that don't have one at all.



Are you honestly acting like a that guy is a superstar?? A guy who gets double doubles, but isn't a top flight scorer? Was Dennis Rodman a superstar to you as well then, because that's not the type of player I'm talking about. I'm talking about franchise players that have the ability to lead your team deep in the post season.



You see now you're just drowning by trying to go as far back as to 1995. Lol!! That was a whole different type of league 15 years ago. The NBA isn't nearly the same when we got Clyde. I'm talking about "right now" and the NBA has a lot more teams where people hardly even know who plays for them and can't even name 3 players on the majority of these teams other than Boston, Orlando, LA, NY, Dallas, Miami, and SA. The rest of the league has a bunch of no name guys and old fading "has been" types of guys that were superstars a long time ago that are merely average players now days. Hardly anyone can even name who the top 3 picks of the draft were in the last 5 years. The NBA is hurting for talent and for a new generation of stars like crazy. The NFL is stacked with 2 full rounds of top talent.






Oh, so now it's not okay to discuss Morey anymore? Lol! So when you figure out that using him as an example only hurt your argument you don't want him to come into context anymore than ha? Like I pointed out before "since you asked" Morey works under a much different and more challenging market for players and he's a lot more busy around the league either cutting deals or busting his ass trying to cut deals with other teams. He's gained a reputation around the league for being a swindler actually. There is always reports about Morey trying to pull something off with a trade or on a negotiation with different players. He does a ton for me to know that he's out doing everything he can and that he's committed and Les Alexander has never been cheap. Smithiaknair come out and say publicly that our strategy is "to build through the draft" and "We're not going to do anything crazy". That's their own words. As for their actions, their refusal to do everything possible to acquire proven players to fill holes has hurt the Texans every year that Smithiak has been here. The results are proof of that.

Doesn't hurt my argument, you just can't face the fact that you have no real retort for it. Luring FA's is the same across all sports basically. Go after the guy & hope the guy chooses you. It's tough to do...period. Along with the texans FO, there are 20 something other teams who don't succeed in luring top FA's to their teams. Why you insist on thinking the texans somehow are exempt from the odds these other teams face is beyond me.

You going off into all kinds of garbage about lack of talent across the nba just proves my point. Talk about spin..

Like i told GP, its obvious you're too far into your agenda to really use any shred of common sense so congratulations ...you win........ im outta here...

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I wonder if we're approaching territory?

Not quite they are still attacking the arguments at this point, even though it has veered from normal "how much do you think the Texans suck" or "which part of the Texans suck more" programming.

 

[Texecutioner]

Doesn't hurt my argument, you just can't face the fact that you have no real retort for it. Luring FA's is the same across all sports basically. Go after the guy & hope the guy chooses you. It's tough to do...period. Along with the texans FO, there are 20 something other teams who don't succeed in luring top FA's to their teams. Why you insist on thinking the texans somehow are exempt from the odds these other teams face is beyond me.

You going off into all kinds of garbage about lack of talent across the nba just proves my point. Talk about spin..

Like i told GP, its obvious you're too far into your agenda to really use any shred of common sense so congratulations ...you win........ im outta here...

You talk as if you haven't been the guy who has been dead wrong for several off seasons now. Are you forgetting history here bud? You've said this same song and dance and yada yada going on several years now while the Texans lack of moves have only hurt them and have already been proven wrong. I don't think you really have the credibility at this point say that anyone's arguments lack common sense or to call it spin. At least have a track record of being correct to some degree or for having stances that were backed up by certain results. I've at least got several years of being backed up by Smithiak's suckitude to back up my claims and my observations as being accurate. All Smithiak has ever done is prove me right, and that's why we're still having this ridiculous conversation going into year 6 now.

And please stop talking about the NBA comparison should be thrown out, because you were the one that tried to bring it up in the first place. Either make your point and stick to your examples or just throw in the towel, but don't sit here and bring Morey and the NBA into this and turn right around and tell me not to talk about it when you realize it wouldn't support your argument. That's just childish.

 

[TexCanada]

Comparing GMs is extremely difficult. Not only is it very different from sport to sport, it is also VERY different from team to team within the same sport. All I have to do is look at my favorite team in each sport to see the major differences.

Hockey: Calgary is a hockey-mad market, luring FAs is relatively easy as long as you meet their asking price (or close to it). Compare this to a GMs job with Florida and it is completely different.

Basketball: Toronto will never ever get a big name FA unless they are fresh out of Europe. (and if they are fresh out of Europe, they are probably not a big name FA anyway)

Basketball: Toronto (see reasoning for basketball)

Football: Texans. Not the ideal market for FAs, but certainly not a bad option either.

Smithiak + McNair don't have an impossible task here. Its not easy, but a good GM could create a team here that FAs would love to go to. The only thing we are missing is winning.

 

[steelbtexan]

Doesn't hurt my argument, you just can't face the fact that you have no real retort for it. Luring FA's is the same across all sports basically. Go after the guy & hope the guy chooses you. It's tough to do...period. Along with the texans FO, there are 20 something other teams who don't succeed in luring top FA's to their teams. Why you insist on thinking the texans somehow are exempt from the odds these other teams face is beyond me.

You going off into all kinds of garbage about lack of talent across the nba just proves my point. Talk about spin..

Like i told GP, its obvious you're too far into your agenda to really use any shred of common sense so congratulations ...you win........ im outta here...

If Rick and Gary cant lure top FA's then they are failing at that part of their jobs and should be fired and replaced by somebody that has a proven track record of being able to lure FA's. (Parcells,Gruden etc.....)

If the job of luuring top tier is to hard for Rick and Gary then they should be fired and replaced by somebody that is capable of luring said FA's. Or maybe just maybe BoB isn't interesed in spend the $$$$ that it takes to lure the top tier FA's to Houston.

Which one is the more plausible theory?

 

[thunderkyss]

I get frustration and disappointment. What SH was communicating is disdain. I do not understand supporting things that one hates. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying that he is objectively wrong to continue rooting for the Texans. I'm simply attempting to understand the appeal.

I don't like liver. I do not, and will not support an establishment that keeps pushing liver on my plate.

Won't do it. Doesn't make sense.

 

[thunderkyss]

Considering Bob McNair is both owner and founder, I'm not sure how that is true.

I'm sorry you don't get that, but our motivations aren't up for debate or your scrutiny. The issue here is the job being done by the Texans organization, by Bob McNair. In regards to building a winning team, they suck. Now, you can believe otherwise if you must. But the facts speak for themselves.

I get it. Houston Football is bigger than Bob McNair.

Bob McNair isn't Houston, Bob McNair isn't football. We were looking for a team before Bob stumbled into Houston.

 

[thunderkyss]

last year, I stopped spending my money on them even after a 9-7 year. that just shows that I expect more than what they have given us as a fanbase. i love the idea of having a Houston football team but there is no way I am going to be happy with the product they have delivered. no way at all.

I joined the original board in 2002... stopped participating after 2004.... pretty much followed the Texans from a far.

They fired Capers, I came back.

I vowed never to leave again.


Die



Hard

 

[Carr Bombed]

I see the moanfest is still in full force on TT - nice to know I haven't missed anything. People still complaining about not being guaranteed a winner within 10 years :wadepalm: Nevermind the fact the fact there was no football in Houston for six years. Maybe if you guys could think about it as a down payment of sorts, then you've only had a losing football for four years instead. Would that make it feel better, Diddums?

This is sig worthy.

 

[GP]

You sure got that right...starting with you.

(Sigh)

Why did you do that?

 

[thunderkyss]

Many FAs don't consider us because we have shown no commitment to winning

What has Greenbay done in the last 6 years to show a commitment to winning?

Veteran head coach? Nope....
I personally think his resume was pathetic to tell you the truth.


Top tier FAs? Nope....
Am I wrong?


Better coach? Unquestionably.

 

[Carr Bombed]

What has Greenbay done in the last 6 years to show a commitment to winning?

Veteran head coach? Nope....
I personally think his resume was pathetic to tell you the truth.


Top tier FAs? Nope....
Am I wrong?


Better coach? Unquestionably.

Green Bay has done a lot to show a commitment to winning. They can't spend a lot of money, because they're in one of the smallest markets in America, but it doesn't mean they don't show a commitment to winning.

 

[steelbtexan]

Green Bay Signed Woodson in FA.

They were willing to take a chance on Rodgers and risk a fan revolt.

They drafted Raji high in the 1st rd. Then traded back into the late 1st rd for Mathews in the 2009 draft. Thereby having to pay 2 players 1st rd slot $$$$.

When Rick and Gary do something this agressive it will be the 1st time. Although this would be the yr to make a trade like that if it was eer going to happen. With the switch to a 3-4.

 

[Texecutioner]

Green Bay Signed Woodson in FA.

How he didn't know that is beyond me. Woodson was one of the highest name top free agents on the market that year. The Packers had to pay him a lot of money as well and then extended him and they already had pretty good corners at the time. They saw a a very good corner and they went after him and it's paid off big time and Woodson wasn't even close to the corner that Nnamdi is.

They were willing to take a chance on Rodgers and risk a fan revolt.

And that there was about as bold as you could get. They did get a fan revolt. A huge one at that, and it paid off big time. They thought about their future and they've already got a SB.

 

[GP]

Green Bay has done a lot to show a commitment to winning. They can't spend a lot of money, because they're in one of the smallest markets in America, but it doesn't mean they don't show a commitment to winning.

They had to show their books, too, because they're the only team in the NFL owned by the fans.

I might just become a Green Bay fan (as a hobby, since the Texans are like working all day at a failing, miserably managed company). Gotta' have a hobby, ya know!

Green Bay is owned by the fans, has to have TRUE transparency in their financial handling(s), and has not only been to the playoffs but has actually won at least ONE Super Bowl.

I'm becoming "franchise-confused" all of a sudden.

 

[Texan_Bill]

They had to show their books, too, because they're the only team in the NFL owned by the fans.

I might just become a Green Bay fan (as a hobby, since the Texans are like working all day at a failing, miserably managed company). Gotta' have a hobby, ya know!

Green Bay is owned by the fans, has to have TRUE transparency in their financial handling(s), and has not only been to the playoffs but has actually won at least ONE Super Bowl.

I'm becoming "franchise-confused" all of a sudden.

Mormon hater!!!


I kid, I kid... It's called levity!

 

[Rey]

They had to show their books, too, because they're the only team in the NFL owned by the fans.

I might just become a Green Bay fan (as a hobby, since the Texans are like working all day at a failing, miserably managed company). Gotta' have a hobby, ya know!

Green Bay is owned by the fans, has to have TRUE transparency in their financial handling(s), and has not only been to the playoffs but has actually won at least ONE Super Bowl.

I'm becoming "franchise-confused" all of a sudden.

I AM a Greenbay fan.

My loyalties are with the Texans, but I am a fan of that franchise. I thought that they had a really good team at the beginning of the season so it was really cool to see them put it all together and parlay that into a Superbowl victory.

Really I don't even see how it's a debate about the Texans and what they have been about.

They aren't aggressive, don't take big chances...So yeah, "Not doing anything crazy" is just par for the course. I really didn't expect McNair to say anything else. We are one of the slowest moving organization in the league. Our coaches has overall sucked for a majority of the franchises tenure...

I honestly don't know how much McNair sucks at what he does, but I do know that what he's done so far hasn't yielded good results....So...if the shoe fits...

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

What has Greenbay done in the last 6 years to show a commitment to winning?

Veteran head coach? Nope....
I personally think his resume was pathetic to tell you the truth.



Top tier FAs? Nope....
Am I wrong?


Better coach? Unquestionably.

What else is there to do in Green Bay?

 

[thunderkyss]

& then there are the armchair GM's/coaches/owners/player fans who think they're being better fans somehow b/c they criticize every single thing organization does warranted or otherwise. Those that don't subscribe wholeheartedly to their philosophy are labeled, homers, sunshiners or "uber" fans.

What gets me, is that no matter how much history has shown that their ideas are no more a sure fire guarantee for success than what McNair did, they believe if McNair had took their "advice" we'd have multiple SuperBowls by now.

McNair should have hired Cowher, or Gruden, or Fisher, or some other "proven" head coach.

Never mind Jimmy Johnson in Miami, Gibbs in Washington, Vermeil or Martz or any number of coaches who have gone on to do "not so well" with other franchises.

Never mind that no Super Bowl winning coach has ever got a second team to the Super Bowl.

Never mind that Tomlinson wasn't a proven head coach.

Never Mind that Sean Peyton was never a head coach prior to the Saints, or that he didn't bring in a "proven" DC for his first 4 years.

Never mind that Mike McCarthy had no success whatsoever prior to being a head coach.

 

[Surreal McCoy]

...the same fans who ran Bud out of town even though he had good teams ...

WOW! I mean...takes a lot to make me speechless, but...dear me

 

[nytexan]

Never mind that no Super Bowl winning coach has ever got a second team to the Super Bowl. .

Does Mike Holmgrem ring a bell

 

[Dutchrudder]

Does Mike Holmgrem ring a bell

He means 'head coach', not just a coach of a team. Plenty of coaches out there have won multiple super bowls with different teams, but no head coach has won one with two teams.

 

[thunderkyss]

way to put it in perspective. these homering yayhoos just don't get it. the same guys who thought David jsut needed an Offensive Line. Remember this one. 'David is great and isn't the problem. You can't throw the football when you are lying on your back'. yeah the same local yokels who said that are now the same local yokels who act like Kubiak is hampered by anything other than him and Rick's utter incompetence. can't you guys listen. gary, the messiah, said it himself. 'Its on me."

Can anyone who believed in Carr & continues to believe in Kubiak please stand up? I'd love to know who SH is talking about everytime he brings this up.

I was the Anti-Carr & the Pro-Kubiak...

I don't know anyone who is pro-kubiak now. I think the "sunshine/koolaid" guys are in the "give it a rest, what's done is done, let's move one" group now. & the soapers are in the "No, I'm not finished crying about my sore panaynay yet." group.

 

[thunderkyss]

Green Bay Signed Woodson in FA.

They were willing to take a chance on Rodgers and risk a fan revolt.

They drafted Raji high in the 1st rd. Then traded back into the late 1st rd for Mathews in the 2009 draft. Thereby having to pay 2 players 1st rd slot $$$$.

When Rick and Gary do something this agressive it will be the 1st time. Although this would be the yr to make a trade like that if it was eer going to happen. With the switch to a 3-4.

Maybe not Rick & Gary, but the Texans did draft Travis Johnson early in the first, then traded back in to get Babin also in the first round.

 

[thunderkyss]

How he didn't know that is beyond me. Woodson was one of the highest name top free agents on the market that year. The Packers had to pay him a lot of money as well and then extended him and they already had pretty good corners at the time. They saw a a very good corner and they went after him and it's paid off big time and Woodson wasn't even close to the corner that Nnamdi is.

Wow, one whole big time FA move more than the Texans...... That is most definitely a much better commitment to win than the Texans have shown.

And that there was about as bold as you could get. They did get a fan revolt. A huge one at that, and it paid off big time. They thought about their future and they've already got a SB.

I don't know how huge it was. I thought most of the Packers fans were ready to move on from Favre & were hoping he really would retire "that" time. I think they were more upset about him playing for a team other than the Packers, than they were about the Packers letting him go.

Drafting Rogers in the first & letting him sit behind Favre for a few years, is about on the same level (to me) as trading two 2nd round picks & signing Matt Schaub, who I believe was the top QB available at the time.

2006: We get two of the top 10 FA DEs (Kalu & Weaver). 4 of the top 8 stayed with their original teams.

2009: Suggs and Peppers didn't move ( I think they were franchised) There was Jason Taylor & Antonio Smith, we got Antonio. We also signed Cato June, and franchised Dunta Robinson.

FA wise, I think we've been at least as active as Greenbay.

 

[TexCanada]

Wow, one whole big time FA move more than the Texans...... That is most definitely a much better commitment to win than the Texans have shown.

I don't understand the argument here. Green Bay has obviously made the right moves, while the Texans have made the wrong moves. Therefore, the Pack should continue with what they are doing, while the Texans should be trying new things. Does it really matter how many FAs one team has signed compared to another?