Defensive Secondary 2011 NFL Draft

[76Texan]

BTW, CB Minniefield had a really up-and-down (mostly down) game against USC.
He was torched 5 times by a couple of different receivers (one of them a Fr).
Maybe it was a game earlier in the season and his techniques weren't sound yet?!?
Otherwise, he looks physical; he dished out some and received some back.
Whhen he wasn't beaten deep, he stuck well with the receivers.
But it was an ugly, ugly game for him!
(Dowling didn't play in this game).

 

[76Texan]

Early impressions, I got:
Moore > Carter > Hill
Moore and Carter both look good.
Either one of them would transplant Wilson (probably) sooner rather than later..

Not enough of watching McDaniel to evaluate yet, but he isn't bad.

Sash plays

Post got cut off for some reason.

About Sash, he played mostly as a cover 2 SS.
I have some concern about him going one-on-one with a receiver/TE and in the red zone. (5 games is still a small sample, though).

About Johnson, I thought I saw him playing more like a FS.
Did he play SS the year before?
I know he put on some big hits last year, but this year, I saw him lost twice against the RB near the goal line (in 2 games).
What is it about him gaining some weigh for the Shriner game?
Did he play around 195-198 lbs during the season and is now listed at 210 lbs so he can play better at SS?

Another guy who just enters my radar is Andrew Rich (BYU), SS, listed between 6'2-6'3, 223 lbs.
He looks super against TCU.
Very quick to the ball (He had something like 10 solos and 3 assists in this game).
Made a big hit on the TE to jar the ball loose up the middle.
He ran with the receiver well a few times so as to dissuade the QB from going that way and broke up a pass on another occasion.
Even on the last TD pass by Dalton, he wasn't too bad in coverage.
(He made the low tackle that almost foil the nice catch.)
The WR just made a very nice in-out move on the post-corner route and Dalton threw a perfect pass.
If only the LB could have stayed with the receiver - another yard or two - to prevent the faked post look, Rich probably would have been able to defend that pass.

 

[bah007]

Post got cut off for some reason.

About Sash, he played mostly as a cover 2 SS.
I have some concern about him going one-on-one with a receiver/TE and in the red zone. (5 games is still a small sample, though).

I love Sash but you're right here. I don't see him covering guys like Dallas Clark one on one.

About Johnson, I thought I saw him playing more like a FS.
Did he play SS the year before?
I know he put on some big hits last year, but this year, I saw him lost twice against the RB near the goal line (in 2 games).
What is it about him gaining some weigh for the Shriner game?
Did he play around 195-198 lbs during the season and is now listed at 210 lbs so he can play better at SS?

Johnson has been trying to bulk up and for good reason. He is being told that he doesn't have the speed to play FS, and instead of getting an ego about it he is trying to make himself the most attractive SS prospect he can.

Another guy who just enters my radar is Andrew Rich (BYU), SS, listed between 6'2-6'3, 223 lbs.
He looks super against TCU.
Very quick to the ball (He had something like 10 solos and 3 assists in this game).
Made a big hit on the TE to jar the ball loose up the middle.
He ran with the receiver well a few times so as to dissuade the QB from going that way and broke up a pass on another occasion.
Even on the last TD pass by Dalton, he wasn't too bad in coverage.
(He made the low tackle that almost foil the nice catch.)
The WR just made a very nice in-out move on the post-corner route and Dalton threw a perfect pass.
If only the LB could have stayed with the receiver - another yard or two - to prevent the faked post look, Rich probably would have been able to defend that pass.

We're on the same page here. I've got Rich on my watch list but haven't been able to watch very much of him. My evaluation of him is incomplete right now, but I saw the same things you did in the TCU game. Very impressed.

 

[76Texan]

We're on the same page here. I've got Rich on my watch list but haven't been able to watch very much of him. My evaluation of him is incomplete right now, but I saw the same things you did in the TCU game. Very impressed.

Yeah, we need to watch more of him. Could be a sleeper here.

Also, in this game, Tejay Johnson was kinda undistinguished, so I don't have a pulse on him yet.

On the other hand, I watched 2 more games in which Antwine Perez (Maryland) played (against Navy and BC).
He caught my attention in the game against Clemson (while watching McDaniel) with some good plays, including a terrific pass break-up - an article will follow to describe it, even though I don't think it did quite the justice.)

I want to watch the Navy game because I'm thinking we can find out how he tackles in open space (agaisnt that triple option run game, there should be instances that the need arises - Sure enough, there were quite a few.)
Perez looks like a very good open-field tackler (in this game and also in the game against BC).

Against BC, he also displayed good hand and eye co-ordination along with good awareness to make the INT near the side line (he had 2 Ints in this game).

Overall, in the 3 games, it's often difficult to tell the difference between Perez and Kenny Tate (even though Tate is bigger, around 6'4-220, and is projected by NFLDraftScout to be the #1 FS in next year draft).

They played interchangeably (Tate is brought up near the LOS more while Perez actually played a little more as a FS) and worked well together.
They combined to stop a couple of wouldabeen TD run near the goal line (one resulted in a fumble that Perez recovered). He recovered another fumble in a short yardage situation in much the same fashion, showing great awareness for the ball (and again, hand/eye coordination).

I think he could be another sleeper.
But can he do it at the next level?
It's interesting to find out that he was a 5-star recruit out of HS and was offered scholarship by 47 schools.
I found this article that probably sums up the whole deal:

http://maryland.247sports.com/Article/Perez-Fought-His-Way-to-a-Standout-Senior-Season-4381

 

[bah007]

I like Perez. He really doesn't have that much experience at FS which is weird considering what a high profile recruit he was. He has changed positions back and forth until he finally settled in at FS this year. Had 74 tackles (4th on team), 7 TFL (3rd), 3 INT (2nd), and a sack.

I think he is definitely a sleeper and considering his athletic ability he may pan out as a very solid FS. Seems like he can do a little bit of everything. Very versatile. I need to watch more of him to see where I would grade him. I'm sure the lack of experience will hurt him, and I'm sure he will be grilled by interviewers about his transfer. We all know how every little thing gets blown up as the draft gets nearer.

 

[bah007]

Here is my updated secondary rankings. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm still open to them. I've been able to watch a few more games this past week and I also watched some of the Senior Bowl stuff. Things will probably keep changing here and there as I catch up on the games I recorded this season.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Aaron Williams - Texas
5. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Johnny Patrick - Louisville
8. Kendric Burney - North Carolina
9. Jalil Brown - Colorado
10. Davon House - New Mexico St

FS
1. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
2. Rahim Moore - UCLA
3. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Ahmad Black - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Robert Sands - West Virginia
3. Tyler Sash - Iowa
4. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
5. Da'Norris Searcy - North Carolina

 

[Texan4Ever]

Here is my updated secondary rankings. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm still open to them. I've been able to watch a few more games this past week and I also watched some of the Senior Bowl stuff. Things will probably keep changing here and there as I catch up on the games I recorded this season.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Aaron Williams - Texas
5. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Johnny Patrick - Louisville
8. Kendric Burney - North Carolina
9. Jalil Brown - Colorado
10. Davon House - New Mexico St

FS
1. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
2. Rahim Moore - UCLA
3. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Ahmad Black - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Robert Sands - West Virginia
3. Tyler Sash - Iowa
4. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
5. Da'Norris Searcy - North Carolina

Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

 

[bah007]

Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

You do have a point. I like Prince because he is so physical. He can really press and he won't get pushed around much by even the bigger WRs in the NFL.

All three are good tacklers and solid in run support. Harris seems the most agile and athletic of the three so I can see that argument. Prince and Smith are about the same size, but Prince seems more fluid. And while Smith is no sissy, he doesn't give it to a WR the same way that Amukamara does.

 

[76Texan]

Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

At the moment I tend to agree.

1. Peterson
2. Harris
3. Amukamara

I've yet to study the other CBs so I can't say about the rest.

FS
Carter & Moore are sort of running neck to neck for me at the moment, even though I start to see that Carter seems to bring a bit more phisicality to the game.
Williams has done nothing for me in the 2 games I watched; I wonder where the guy from last year is now.
Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature.
Yet to study the other guy(s).

SS
No complain from me on the rating so far.

 

[Texan4Ever]

You do have a point. I like Prince because he is so physical. He can really press and he won't get pushed around much by even the bigger WRs in the NFL.

All three are good tacklers and solid in run support. Harris seems the most agile and athletic of the three so I can see that argument. Prince and Smith are about the same size, but Prince seems more fluid. And while Smith is no sissy, he doesn't give it to a WR the same way that Amukamara does.

At the moment I tend to agree.

1. Peterson
2. Harris
3. Amukamara

I've yet to study the other CBs so I can't say about the rest.

FS
Carter & Moore are sort of running neck to neck for me at the moment, even though I start to see that Carter seems to bring a bit more phisicality to the game.
Williams has done nothing for me in the 2 games I watched; I wonder where the guy from last year is now.
Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature.
Yet to study the other guy(s).

SS
No complain from me on the rating so far.

Have you guys seen any tape on Prince against another wide receiver besides Blackmon? I'm nut sure if Prince is overrated or Blackmon a stud WR because in the clips I have seen of Prince VS Blackmon, Blackmon makes Prince look foolish and gets passed him fairly easily for the TD.

 

[bah007]

Have you guys seen any tape on Prince against another wide receiver besides Blackmon? I'm nut sure if Prince is overrated or Blackmon a stud WR because in the clips I have seen of Prince VS Blackmon, Blackmon makes Prince look foolish and gets passed him fairly easily for the TD.

Blackmon is pretty damn good, imo.

 

[bah007]

I'm not going to change my ranking on this one, at least not yet, but I will concede that it's not a stretch to rate Harris above Amukamara.

I would put Prince no lower than #3 though. I don't think Smith or Aaron Williams are quite in his class.

 

[bah007]

...Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature....

I'm not too worried about Black. I would rather have a guy like him who has the necessary skills than a guy with the prototypical size who just doesn't have it.

I will say that the team that drafts him may try him out at CB to see if he can make it work.

 

[76Texan]

Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

I watched about 6 games so far, and I'm not impressed.
I don't see him as a first rounder at this moment.
I didn't take down any notes, but I knew that he got beat at least a couple of times deep (on one play, the QB didn't see the open receiver; on the other I can't remember whether the QB missed the receiver or Price was bailed out by the safety.)
He was outmuscled by the receiver at least once, giving up an inside route.
On another play, he got beat and just held the receiver, taking a PI call (which is the way to play).
He was also flagged for a PI on another play.
And as I've said before, from time to time, you can see him putting a hand on the receiver beyond the 5-yd allowance in the NFL (but legal in the NCAA) to keep the receiver from getting separation.

 

[76Texan]

I'm not too worried about Black. I would rather have a guy like him who has the necessary skills than a guy with the prototypical size who just doesn't have it.

I will say that the team that drafts him may try him out at CB to see if he can make it work.

I'd really like to find out about all his measurables.
Also, I'm still studying him.
I like his game so far, but he would have to play pretty big consistently to convince me that he can be a legit starter in the NFL.

 

[76Texan]

I'm warming up to Andrew Rich now.
I've seen him against Ponder (Fl St), Dalton (TCU), and Kaepernick (Nevada).
They even moved him to single deep safety a majority of the time against Nevada, and he didn't miss a beat.

He would have looked even more like a bullet than Sash if he's of the same size.
One play that stood out to me was when the DE chased the RB to the outside and was able to tackled him low 3 yds behind the LOS. (He might have gotten the full stop without Rich's help, but it's hard to tell.)
But, at any rate, Rich was at least 12 yds from the LOS.
He read the play and reacted so quickly that he was right on top the RB just after the DE got to his feet.

There are several instances that he was put on a receiver and was able to stay with them one-on-one.
They even put him on receivers in the red zone quite often.

I'm inclined to (but not quite sure if I'm ready) move him up to the third spot in either safety position because he also shows good range as the lone safety deep, giving help over the top from side line to side line.

I don't think he has tremendous speed. He just reads plays quickly and gets a good jump on the ball.

NOTE: I've seen both Sash & Rich got beat when they stepped up too aggresively (Sash bit on the play action fake while Rich anticipated a short pass out to the flat to the RB and left his help assignment a bit too soon). But I don't see these as terrible, unless they are repeated!

 

[76Texan]

Moore's stock just took a nose dive for me.
Against WSU, he got beat badly on a double move inside the 10 and was toasted for a TD.
On the 2nd TD (also in the red zone), he took such poor position and angle that he couldn't get there in time to help the nickel back to break up the pass.
In the second half, Moore abandoned his responsibility in his 1/2 of the field (in cover 2) and chased the route to the other side (receivers running crossing routes from both sides). That left the receiver wide open for a very long gain.
There was another instance- but it slipped my mind now (where it looked like Moore didn't do the job a safety is supposed to.)

Then, in the game against Stanford, for some reason, Moore misjudged the throw and strayed too far from his deep post position. The RCB was beaten a few steps by the post route (either that, or he was supposed to trail the play and to look to protect underneath route).
There were receivers running deep routes on both sides and it did not look like the CBs were supposed to drop into 3-deep coverage. In this case, Moore shoulda stayed back as far as the deepest man, but he didn't. TD!

 

[76Texan]

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

.....

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

...

While I'm at it, here are some more plays:
- Amukamara was all over a slant route, but he was credited for a pass breakup instead of an PI.
- Amukamara held the receiver past the 5yd but no PI was called.
(The 5-yard contact zone is only an NFL rule. In college and high school, defensive backs are permitted to chuck receivers anywhere on the field, so long as they don't hold or commit pass interference once a forward pass is thrown.)
In this case, Prince didn't just chuck the receiver, he held him.
- On another play, Prince was called for PI (he had to hold the receiver as he was about to get beat.)

 

[beerlover]

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

.....

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

...

While I'm at it, here are some more plays:
- Amukamara was all over a slant route, but he was credited for a pass breakup instead of an PI.
- Amukamara held the receiver past the 5yd but no PI was called.
(The 5-yard contact zone is only an NFL rule. In college and high school, defensive backs are permitted to chuck receivers anywhere on the field, so long as they don't hold or commit pass interference once a forward pass is thrown.)
In this case, Prince didn't just chuck the receiver, he held him.
- On another play, Prince was called for PI (he had to hold the receiver as he was about to get beat.)

OK you've convinced me, maybe Texans take a look @ him in the second & swing him over to FS?

 

[76Texan]

OK you've convinced me, maybe Texans take a look @ him in the second & swing him over to FS?

May be he still needs to improve on his technique?
I've seen him a bit high out of his break here and there.
When he stays low, he turns and sticks very well.
He may still be a good CB with some good coaching; his hips seem fluid enough (along with other positive traits.)
Whatever we saw on the field might not be the end product that we will see in the NFL.

It would be a good possibility to consider him as a FS in the second round; however, if Wade has already thought out loud about moving Quin to FS, maybe they will go for another CB in FA or in the draft, I dunno!

 

[76Texan]

Did anyone watch the OU/Cincy game?
I can't quite see clearly the formation and the routes on the two plays where DJ Wood got free for two long gains.
It looks like Carter was the culprit both times, but the other safety (#3 Nelson) saved him both times.
He also bit on the exact same play (if the above was true) again in the same game (this time, he was surely the culprit.)
Plus he also committed one or two other errors (bigger than minor).
His stock is droppong for me.

If we're just grading these prospects based on what happened on the field, I might have to put Andrew Rich as the top safety of this class (oh boy!)

 

[drs23]

May be he still needs to improve on his technique?
I've seen him a bit high out of his break here and there.
When he stays low, he turns and sticks very well.
He may still be a good CB with some good coaching; his hips seem fluid enough (along with other positive traits.)
Whatever we saw on the field might not be the end product that we will see in the NFL.

It would be a good possibility to consider him as a FS in the second round; however, if Wade has already thought out loud about moving Quin to FS, maybe they will go for another CB in FA or in the draft, I dunno!

This has been tossed around, though I've not personally read it that I recall. Anyone have a link? FWIW, a good move in my book.

 

[76Texan]

This has been tossed around, though I've not personally read it that I recall. Anyone have a link? FWIW, a good move in my book.

I thought I saw a link that somebody posted, but I can't find it anywhere.

The closest I got is this:

“We’ve definitely got to get better, and that’s across the board,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “In free agency, if there’s a corner or a defensive lineman, if that helps us, we’ve got to look at those options.


“I don't know if there’s just one move. I think we’ve got to look at a variety of things. There are possibilities with some of our players (secondary) actually moving (to new positions). That’s something that we’ve talked about.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=teamreports-2011-nfl-hou&bcmt=7253832#mwpphu-comment-7253832

But it could be a lot of things:
Personally, I think Jackson and Quin can play nickel, CB, or safety.
Allen had played safety for the Dolphins before, so he can always be moved as well.

 

[drs23]

I thought I saw a link that somebody posted, but I can't find it anywhere.

The closest I got is this:

“We’ve definitely got to get better, and that’s across the board,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “In free agency, if there’s a corner or a defensive lineman, if that helps us, we’ve got to look at those options.


“I don't know if there’s just one move. I think we’ve got to look at a variety of things. There are possibilities with some of our players (secondary) actually moving (to new positions). That’s something that we’ve talked about.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=teamreports-2011-nfl-hou&bcmt=7253832#mwpphu-comment-7253832

But it could be a lot of things:
Personally, I think Jackson and Quin can play nickel, CB, or safety.
Allen had played safety for the Dolphins before, so he can always be moved as well.

Thanks much 76. I'd like to see them follow through and do WHATEVER it takes. Be it rearranging players already here, FA, trade or draft.

 

[Texan4Ever]

Thanks much 76. I'd like to see them follow through and do WHATEVER it takes. Be it rearranging players already here, FA, trade or draft.

Can someone rep 76 for his insights on this thread, I haven't be able to rep him. Thanks!

 

[drs23]

Can someone rep 76 for his insights on this thread, I haven't be able to rep him. Thanks!

Done.

 

[76Texan]

Thanks as usual, guys.
I know some of us here are just crazy about football quite the same!

I have a question:
What is it that make people like Peterson so much?
I see a good CB with huge potential, but I didn't see greatness on the field.
Every time I put one of his game on, the thought keep coming back "Why is it that people seems to be so enamored with this guy" and the other guy, the QB Blaine Gabbert.

I'd really like to hear different opinions about these two guys.

 

[Texan4Ever]

Thanks as usual, guys.
I know some of us here are just crazy about football quite the same!

I have a question:
What is it that make people like Peterson so much?
I see a good CB with huge potential, but I didn't see greatness on the field.
Every time I put one of his game on, the thought keep coming back "Why is it that people seems to be so enamored with this guy" and the other guy, the QB Blaine Gabbert.

I'd really like to hear different opinions about these two guys.

This is just my personal opinion but, I think people are enamored with Peterson because of his freakish size (6'1" 220-Lbs), he is built like an undersized linebacker but has the speed and quickness of a cornerback.

Another aspect of his game is that he is able to return punts (basically help out on special teams) and play some offense as well (albet not as well as other two way players).

Not since the 1998 NFL Draft has there been a cornerback who has come close to mirroring Charles Woodson (he was drafted in 98' iirc) and its not until now that there is a player, at least based on his college career, can be compared to Woodson.

Just some of my opinions...

 

[steelbtexan]

This is just my personal opinion but, I think people are enamored with Peterson because of his freakish size (6'1" 220-Lbs), he is built like an undersized linebacker but has the speed and quickness of a cornerback.

Another aspect of his game is that he is able to return punts (basically help out on special teams) and play some offense as well (albet not as well as other two way players).

Not since the 1998 NFL Draft has there been a cornerback who has come close to mirroring Charles Woodson (he was drafted in 98' iirc) and its not until now that there is a player, at least based on his college career, can be compared to Woodson.

Just some of my opinions...

^^^^
This and the he might run a low 4.3 or a high 4.2 at that size.

Peterson reminds me of a faster but not tougher Ronnie Lott. Whoever drafts Peterson will be getting a very good CB for 3 or 4 yrs and later in his career a real diference maker at S

As I stated in another thread, if Peterson falls to #5 the Texans should seriously consider trading up and taking him. Peterson and a FA CB would take the secondary from putrid to acceptable immediately. IMHO

Peterson is a rare talent. One of the most talented I've seen. Woodson or Mel Blount would be comparable in size,agility,speed and style of play to Peterson.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Thanks as usual, guys.
I know some of us here are just crazy about football quite the same!

I have a question:
What is it that make people like Peterson so much?
I see a good CB with huge potential, but I didn't see greatness on the field.
Every time I put one of his game on, the thought keep coming back "Why is it that people seems to be so enamored with this guy" and the other guy, the QB Blaine Gabbert.

I'd really like to hear different opinions about these two guys.

I think Peterson is the top dog purely from an athlete standpoint. People are in love with his elite measurables.

As for Gabbert, I think he'll be awful he couldn't even stand up to a average college pass rush for Nebraska. I hope the Titans draft him.

 

[76Texan]

^^^^
This and the he might run a low 4.3 or a high 4.2 at that size.

Peterson reminds me of a faster but not tougher Ronnie Lott. Whoever drafts Peterson will be getting a very good CB for 3 or 4 yrs and later in his career a real diference maker at S

As I stated in another thread, if Peterson falls to #5 the Texans should seriously consider trading up and taking him. Peterson and a FA CB would take the secondary from putrid to acceptable immediately. IMHO

Peterson is a rare talent. One of the most talented I've seen. Woodson or Mel Blount would be comparable in size,agility,speed and style of play to Peterson.

I don't think Peterson run in the 4.2, probably not even 4.3.
Could be high 4.3, low 4.4, my guess.

Peterson might be faster than Lott, but the receivers nowadays are also faster than before.

Peterson is far from a shut down corner in college.
He allowed more catches in just two or three games than Jackson gave up the entire year.
He would have given up even more if not for safety help, QB missing wide-open receiver, pressure on the QB, and help from the ref.

Not that he's a bad CB, but what I saw is far from a shutdown CB that people regarded so highly.

Certainly his potential is huge.
If he's given safety help (like McCourty) so that he can continue to play physical underneath, he can be a monster.
But leaving him alone on an island, I don't think you will like the result.
(I can't predict the future, I can only see what I saw on the field from his past games.)

 

[76Texan]

I think Peterson is the top dog purely from an athlete standpoint. People are in love with his elite measurables.

As for Gabbert, I think he'll be awful he couldn't even stand up to a average college pass rush for Nebraska. I hope the Titans draft him.

Thanks for mentioning the Nebraska game!

I'm going to try to compare the Iowa game and the Nebraska game to show the two sides of Gabbert.

 

[76Texan]

This is just my personal opinion but, I think people are enamored with Peterson because of his freakish size (6'1" 220-Lbs), he is built like an undersized linebacker but has the speed and quickness of a cornerback.

Another aspect of his game is that he is able to return punts (basically help out on special teams) and play some offense as well (albet not as well as other two way players).

Not since the 1998 NFL Draft has there been a cornerback who has come close to mirroring Charles Woodson (he was drafted in 98' iirc) and its not until now that there is a player, at least based on his college career, can be compared to Woodson.

Just some of my opinions...

I can see all these points perfectly.
But maybe we shouldn't "fall in love" with a prospect!

How much does a team has to pay IF he can render all these services at the highest level?

What has he done to show that he can do all this at the pro level?

 

[beerlover]

Texans would be wise to give CB a rest at least in terms of draft, let the dust settle, new coaching add a veteran db in FA & wait until next year. I like Cliff Harris Oregon better than anyone in this years CB crop.

he got robbed of one of the best INT's I've ever seen in BCS game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zOwAZfVww

 

[76Texan]

Texans would be wise to give CB a rest at least in terms of draft, let the dust settle, new coaching add a veteran db in FA & wait until next year. I like Cliff Harris Oregon better than anyone in this years CB crop.

he got robbed of one of the best INT's I've ever seen in BCS game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zOwAZfVww

That was a smart play by Harris.
It's too bad the play was ruled an incompletion and there was not enough evidence to overturn the play.
It was extremely difficult to tell whether he had complete possession of the ball when his left foot (the only foot that was in bound) came down as the receiver got a little piece of his arm. (I think he had possession of the ball.)
At any rate, what I liked more than the fact that he almost got an INT is that he understood the pass patterns.
With him and the safety bracketing the outside receiver who ran a skinny post; it was extremely likely that the QB (Newton) would throw to the slot receiver who ran the wheel route to the outside.
That was a very good read and reaction by him.

Side note: Newton was quite accurate even with Casey Matthews bearing down upon him.

 

[Texan4Ever]

Texans would be wise to give CB a rest at least in terms of draft, let the dust settle, new coaching add a veteran db in FA & wait until next year. I like Cliff Harris Oregon better than anyone in this years CB crop.

he got robbed of one of the best INT's I've ever seen in BCS game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zOwAZfVww

MAJOR THREAD DERAILMENT!

Beerlover, have you seen the guys other YouTube videos based on your link you provided? If not, here is one that I thought was funny as hell:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEr6tHeuKnA&feature=related

 

[76Texan]

After watching a few more LSU games, I'm scratching my head as to why Peterson can be so highly regarded.
I'm thinking about dropping him toward mid first round, possible late first round status.
He's lacking in quite a few areas, which I'll come back to when I have some time.

 

[steelbtexan]

After watching a few more LSU games, I'm scratching my head as to why Peterson can be so highly regarded.
I'm thinking about dropping him toward mid first round, possible late first round status.
He's lacking in quite a few areas, which I'll come back to when I have some time.

I'm not saying Peterson is perfect. He's really good though and at worst Peterson would be the best FS the Texans have ever had. He would be a great centerfielder type FS. With enough size to punish WR's going across the middle.

Peterson at CB will need to be coached up. But the talent is there.

 

[76Texan]

More Pitts games and I'm liking Dom Decicco more.
This guy would be a steal in the 7th.
I think he has a chance to be a starter; at the least he will be very good depth.
100% more impressive than Barber in college.

Play hard, play smart, my kind of guy!

Andrew Rich and Decicco are my two sleepers at safety.
(Perhaps Antwine Perez, too!)

 

[Texan4Ever]

Hey 76Texan, have you had a chance to look at guys that were considered 1st rounders before the season started such as DeAndre McDaniel from Clemson (I think).

He seems to have completely fallen off the radar after being dubbed as a possible 1st round pick.

 

[76Texan]

Hey 76Texan, have you had a chance to look at guys that were considered 1st rounders before the season started such as DeAndre McDaniel from Clemson (I think).

He seems to have completely fallen off the radar after being dubbed as a possible 1st round pick.

I've watched so many games I can't remember which is which, lol
I did watch a few of his games: MD and UNC for sure.
I think I've watched the Miami game also.
And one or two more incomplete games.
I did watch the Auburn game, even though I can't remember if I finished it or not.

As I've posted before, he's simply solid.
It seems like the opponent doesn't run plays his way as often as they do away from him. (I'm pretty sure that's the case.)

I haven't seen anything negative yet.
On the other hand, I haven't seen quite enough to merit absolute first round status.
But it's not any fault of his own.
So far, he's pretty much where he's supposed to be at on any given play.
I'd like to see some situations where he's challenged, where he's put on the spot.

I'm in the process of going back to watch more safety play.
Perhaps I'll pick up on the Auburn game.

...

As far as FS is concerned, the problem with Rahim Moore and Quinton Carter is that I've seen some mistakes that I don't think a first rounder should make.
Maybe I'm too harsh, but I want to have the confidence in the last line of defense.
As of now, I don't see any FS deserving first round status.

 

[bah007]

I've watched so many games I can't remember which is which, lol
I did watch a few of his games: MD and UNC for sure.
I think I've watched the Miami game also.
And one or two more incomplete games.
I did watch the Auburn game, even though I can't remember if I finished it or not.

As I've posted before, he's simply solid.
It seems like the opponent doesn't run plays his way as often as they do away from him. (I'm pretty sure that's the case.)

I haven't seen anything negative yet.
On the other hand, I haven't seen quite enough to merit absolute first round status.
But it's not any fault of his own.
So far, he's pretty much where he's supposed to be at on any given play.
I'd like to see some situations where he's challenged, where he's put on the spot.

I'm in the process of going back to watch more safety play.
Perhaps I'll pick up on the Auburn game.

...

As far as FS is concerned, the problem with Rahim Moore and Quinton Carter is that I've seen some mistakes that I don't think a first rounder should make.
Maybe I'm too harsh, but I want to have the confidence in the last line of defense.
As of now, I don't see any FS deserving first round status.

I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

 

[steelbtexan]

I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

That's about how I have them rated. I'm hoping Carter falls to the Texans in the 2nd rd. He would represent great value at that spot. Carter has great hips to turn and run. He would be a massive upgrade over Wilson. (No more Edwards type catches) Carter isn't a big hitter. But he is a pretty sure tackler. He does get caught out ofd position occasionally due to being overly aggressive. It's why he will be available in the 2nd rd. This can be corrected with good coaching.


With that said Rick and Garys track record says they wont spend a high pick on a S. Even though the way Phillips 3-4 works you need to have S that can cover. Which is why moving Quin to S should be an option.

 

[Ndevine7]

I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

Neither one is a first round pick. Too many mistakes. Both are good talents and I think everyone here would be happy if we could land one of them in the second round. Would be a huge improvement to our defense

 

[Ndevine7]

That's about how I have them rated. I'm hoping Carter falls to the Texans in the 2nd rd. He would represent great value at that spot. Carter has great hips to turn and run. He would be a massive upgrade over Wilson. (No more Edwards type catches) Carter isn't a big hitter. But he is a pretty sure tackler. He does get caught out ofd position occasionally due to being overly aggressive. It's why he will be available in the 2nd rd. This can be corrected with good coaching.


With that said Rick and Garys track record says they wont spend a high pick on a S. Even though the way Phillips 3-4 works you need to have S that can cover. Which is why moving Quin to S should be an option.

Its hard evaluating this years draft because of the change to a 3-4. We dont know how and where Wade is planning on playing this players. Whether cushing is inside or outside, does he have quin moving to fs, is mario going to be standing up at all? Hopefully Smithiak will let wade pick the players he wants and needs to make this defense decent

 

[steelbtexan]

Jarrard Tarrant in the 3rd rd would be a great alternative to Carter or Moore in the 2nd. I've been watching him for the last couple of yrs. He's a good tackler and has the coverage skills that are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.

 

[steelbtexan]

Its hard evaluating this years draft because of the change to a 3-4. We dont know how and where Wade is planning on playing this players. Whether cushing is inside or outside, does he have quin moving to fs, is mario going to be standing up at all? Hopefully Smithiak will let wade pick the players he wants and needs to make this defense decent

Agreed

After watching Phillips defense over the yrs there are 2 things it has to have.

1.A great pass rusher from the WLB spot
2. Atleast 1 but really 2 S that are versatile enough to play the run. But being able to cover is job 1. The Texans currently dont have a S on the roster that fits Phillips defense.

 

[76Texan]

Its hard evaluating this years draft because of the change to a 3-4. We dont know how and where Wade is planning on playing this players. Whether cushing is inside or outside, does he have quin moving to fs, is mario going to be standing up at all? Hopefully Smithiak will let wade pick the players he wants and needs to make this defense decent

Kubiak said it will be up to Wade, and with a slight chuckle, he added something like: "I just hope that he takes into considerations some of my inputs."

 

[76Texan]

I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

After watching three more Clemson games (Auburn, South Carolina, and USF - these were games Clemson gave up the most points - along with the Miami game that I've already watched), I think McDaniel had solidified himself as perhaps the #1 safety for me.
He can play both positions well in the 6 games I've reviewed so far.

I still want to watch a couple more games (BC & Fla St), but in these two games, the opponent scored only 16, so I don't think much will change !?!

I think McDaniel has a decent/good chance to be drafted in the first round.

 

[76Texan]

The Auburn/Clemson (above all the games) shows me a lot of things about McDaniel.

1. His footbal smart/instinct/ability to read play/understanding multi-receiver route patterns and therefore deciphering the QB tendency to throw to a certain area. (IMHO, this is what we're looking for in a deep safety.)

2. Speed and range.
He looks to have between good to excellent speed for a safety.
The fluid hips allow him to turn and thus give him the range to chase the long ball.
When he came up in run support, the flexibility of the hips also helps him to turn back to pursue the ball carier.
He also shows a good first burst and a good second gear (after he made a change of direction.)

3. Ball skills, playing the ball at the high point (good vertical leap and reach).

4. Good tackling ability and solid technique even as he hit the opponent.
Good angles, good form, good position.

5. Physical against a big back or receiver.

Did I forget anything we should be looking for in either a SS or FS?