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Kubiak: Tate has had an 'up and down' camp

Texan_Bill said:
I'd bet any issues he's having is related to the speed of the game (-or- practice for that matter.)
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He was pretty specific about what issue(s) Tate is having. Pretty much sounded like the antithesis of what Foster is doing.

Kubiak said he needs to learn to be ready to play, when he breaks from the locker room, and not 30 minutes into practice. It's all about being a pro, which I think is a good thing.

It's the same issue he's had with Jacoby, what he loves about Andre & Walter. This isn't anything new, practice like you play, and be a pro at all times.
 
Texecutioner said:
Oh my bad. You're probably right then. Sounds like another Flaming Sparrow than.
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I'll confirm what Infantrycak is saying about him. Sorta... while I can't confirm he is a Titans' fan, I can also not confirm he is a Texans' fan.
 
thunderkyss said:
He was pretty specific about what issue(s) Tate is having. Pretty much sounded like the antithesis of what Foster is doing.

Kubiak said he needs to learn to be ready to play, when he breaks from the locker room, and not 30 minutes into practice. It's all about being a pro, which I think is a good thing.

It's the same issue he's had with Jacoby, what he loves about Andre & Walter. This isn't anything new, practice like you play, and be a pro at all times.
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I think that Foster picked that up this year. So I look at it this way , Foster kept Montario Hardesty on the pine at UT . Hardesty was a 2nd round pick this year to the Browns I believe . What does that put Foster's value at ?
 
Texecutioner said:
Tate's in a much different situation where he'd have a chance to grab the starting position as oppose to those other two.
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My point is that even if Tate never starts a game in 2010, or he doesn't take a major share of the carries, that doesn't mean that he is a project player.

And even if he somehow fit your description of project player, it is not unheard of to take a second round pick with a few rough edges.
 
thunderkyss said:
He was pretty specific about what issue(s) Tate is having. Pretty much sounded like the antithesis of what Foster is doing.

Kubiak said he needs to learn to be ready to play, when he breaks from the locker room, and not 30 minutes into practice. It's all about being a pro, which I think is a good thing.

It's the same issue he's had with Jacoby, what he loves about Andre & Walter. This isn't anything new, practice like you play, and be a pro at all times.
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John Harris (1560) has been attending practices. Today he was talking specifically about Kube's comments and Ben Tate. It didn't sound good. Sounds almost though he has a carefree. Harris talked about how Andre stays late after practice just to work with the jugs machine, but Tate (who dropped two passes in one practice is darn near the first guy on the field.

*************************

No, no, no!! Not those jugs, you pervs!

This jugs:

Worlds_Portable_Cart2.jpg
 
Brisco_County said:
Dynasty leagues are also called keeper leagues. You can keep up to three players at the end of the season, and each player you keep costs you a draft spot three notches up from where you originally got him. That means if you pick up Tate in round 12 this year, you can keep him for next year and only lose a 9th round pick.
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Dynasty leagues are different than keeper leagues. What you described is a keeper league.
In a dynasty league, you keep 100% of your roster going into the next season, but can trade players for draft picks in the next draft.
It's pretty cool, because it keeps even the teams with bad records interested until then end of the season. You always have the ability to trade an older player to a contending team for a draft pick, or a young player with potential.


*edit*
I guess this has already been explained a few times... I guess I should have read a few more posts before replying.
 
False Start said:
I think once Ben gets his head straight, learns the system well enough he will be what was expected. (hopefully)
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I think it's more about attitude. If you're a 2nd round pick and you're behind on your learning curve, you need to put in the extra effort.
 
thunderkyss said:
He was pretty specific about what issue(s) Tate is having. Pretty much sounded like the antithesis of what Foster is doing.

Kubiak said he needs to learn to be ready to play, when he breaks from the locker room, and not 30 minutes into practice. It's all about being a pro, which I think is a good thing.

It's the same issue he's had with Jacoby, what he loves about Andre & Walter. This isn't anything new, practice like you play, and be a pro at all times.
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It sounds pretty much like what Arian said he had to overcome last year. The dedication level needed to succeed is way beyond what most of these guys have ever seen. Guys like Foster and Tate have been successful their whole lives before the NFL. It takes some getting used to. It cannot be all that easy to adjust to the speed of the game that the NFL is, and understand Kubiak's playbook, at the same time having your whole lifestyle changed. New city, new friends, everything hits these rookies like a sledgehammer. Some adapt better than others.
 
JB said:
It sounds pretty much like what Arian said he had to overcome last year. The dedication level needed to succeed is way beyond what most of these guys have ever seen. Guys like Foster and Tate have been successful their whole lives before the NFL. It takes some getting used to. It cannot be all that easy to adjust to the speed of the game that the NFL is, and understand Kubiak's playbook, at the same time having your whole lifestyle changed. New city, new friends, everything hits these rookies like a sledgehammer. Some adapt better than others.
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I thought at one time, I would be able to play in the NFL. I used to tell myself, & I think Michael Irvin said it, that once I get there I can't relax, and think, "Whew... I made it."

I think many players need to get over that.
 
thunderkyss said:
I thought at one time, I would be able to play in the NFL. I used to tell myself, & I think Michael Irvin said it, that once I get there I can't relax, and think, "Whew... I made it."

I think many players need to get over that.
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Totally agree. And most are not prepared for the step they are trying to take. It's not just the physical change, but the mental demands plus the physcological change as well. ( don't know if I typed what I was trying to say there). But the rookie comes in often overwhelmed by the enormity of it all. Some guys step it up soon (Slaton, Cushing, Ryans), some take a bit longer (Foster, Brown, Jones), and some never quite get it (TJ, Okam? Okoye?). But I think 1/3 of the way through training camp is way too early to put a label on a rookie.
 
thunderkyss said:
I thought at one time, I would be able to play in the NFL. I used to tell myself, & I think Michael Irvin said it, that once I get there I can't relax, and think, "Whew... I made it."

I think many players need to get over that.
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If you get over that, you become complacent. You can never get over it. It's what drives you in 100 degree heat, at 5 am and in the 4th quarter when you're dead dog tired. You cannot think you've ever made it. Or you won't.
 
TexMexMom said:
If you get over that, you become complacent. You can never get over it. It's what drives you in 100 degree heat, at 5 am and in the 4th quarter when you're dead dog tired. You cannot think you've ever made it. Or you won't.
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I think that perhaps you are mis-understanding him. I read what he is saying to mean that too many players think that once they have reached that level that they do not need to keep increasing their dedication. Once you have reached the best of the best, it is easy to become complacent. The really good ones never do.
 
I dont think Tate will ever be THE GUY. I think he will be a great addition for Goal line and short yardage situations. He doesnt break away and have big runs. He doesnt have great speed.

MY understanding and from what I have read is the best RB in camp has been Chris Henry.

I dont have alot of faith in Slaton. I think he was a flash in the pan. Foster did his damage late season when it really didnt matter.

I dont have alot of faith in the Texans rushing potential. The Texans O Line is a lass blocking finesse O Line. They dont beat the crap out of you.
 
THE NFL said:
I dont think Tate will ever be THE GUY. I think he will be a great addition for Goal line and short yardage situations. He doesnt break away and have big runs. He doesnt have great speed.
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There are a lot of RB's that have been good that didn't have 'great speed'...I don't know if Tate will ever be "the guy"...And really, I don't care if he ever is the main back as long as we have a productive run game.

But Tate's speed is not an issue...He's a bigger back who I believe ran a 4.3 something at the combine...That's not bad

MY understanding and from what I have read is the best RB in camp has been Chris Henry.
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Foster has been the best back in camp.

I dont have alot of faith in the Texans rushing potential. The Texans O Line is a lass blocking finesse O Line. They dont beat the crap out of you.
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The Texans used pretty much the same system when Slaton racked up all those yards just a few year ago. The ZBS may have it's flaws when the field gets shorter, but in between the twenties it doesn't hinder the run game.
 
Tate did NOT run a 4.3. He ran a 4.43 HUGE difference.

The reports I have read say that Henry has run better than any of the other RBs in camp.
 
THE NFL said:
Tate did NOT run a 4.3. He ran a 4.43 HUGE difference.
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One thing they have in common? They're both excellent for a RB especially one of Ben's size, actually that time is pretty close to what Slaton ran if I remember correctly. You don't have to be the fastest guy on the field to run for some huge gains.
 
THE NFL said:
Tate did NOT run a 4.3. He ran a 4.43 HUGE difference.

The reports I have read say that Henry has run better than any of the other RBs in camp.
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So you are saying that you have not attended any of the open camps and are just parroting words you have read on the internet?
 
THE NFL said:
Tate did NOT run a 4.3. He ran a 4.43 HUGE difference.

The reports I have read say that Henry has run better than any of the other RBs in camp.
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I think you just said it all right there cause Henry is an awful awful running back in an NFL game. Can't put too much stock in camp.
 
JB said:
I think that perhaps you are mis-understanding him. I read what he is saying to mean that too many players think that once they have reached that level that they do not need to keep increasing their dedication. Once you have reached the best of the best, it is easy to become complacent. The really good ones never do.
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Exactly, they can't look at getting to the NFL as their destination, as the end of their journey. They need to have something that drives them to be the starter, to be a champion, to be the best of the best, to be in the Hall of Fame.

I know a lot of people who have stopped watching the NFL, because they think the money has gotten too outrageous.

Me, I like the fact that a guy who grew up in the house next to mine (the Babineauxs, Jamaal Charles, Jimmy Johnson, and several others) can one day be a multi-millionaire due to the his drive and determination.

I also like the Emitt Smiths, the Jerry Rices, the Warren Moons, the John Randles, all those that came before them, and all those trying to fill their shoes.
 
THE NFL said:
I dont think Tate will ever be THE GUY. I think he will be a great addition for Goal line and short yardage situations. He doesnt break away and have big runs. He doesnt have great speed.

MY understanding and from what I have read is the best RB in camp has been Chris Henry.

I dont have alot of faith in Slaton. I think he was a flash in the pan. Foster did his damage late season when it really didnt matter.
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That's the beauty of the whole thing. It's not inconceivable that we enter the season with 4 running backs. If Tate is nothing more than a goal-to-go back, that's fine, as long as he excels at it. If Foster isn't the guy we need him to be, we've got Slaton, If Slaton can't get it done, we've got Henry. What are the odds, that none of the four pan out?

How bad would it be, If Foster and Henry open the season getting the Majority of carries? How bad would it be to push Slate & Tate? How bad would it be to have a hungry Slate & Tate ready to step up if something happens to our primary/secondary backs?
THE NFL said:
I dont have alot of faith in the Texans rushing potential. The Texans O Line is a lass blocking finesse O Line. They dont beat the crap out of you.
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I think you're putting too much value in the word finesse. With the cut blocking you'll see, there are going to be 300lb guys throwing their bodies into DLmen all day long. Wintson, Studdard, & Caldwell are going to be mauling people, popping LBs & safeties. Finesse doesn't mean that we're going to be tip-toeing around the defense.

If you think of the power run game as Mike Tyson, think of the ZBS as Anderson Silva.
 
Saturday will tell us a lot. I'm waiting until then before I start making any comments on Tate. Or anything else about the Texans. Practice is one thing, actually playing another team is another.
 
THE NFL said:
Tate did NOT run a 4.3. He ran a 4.43 HUGE difference.

The reports I have read say that Henry has run better than any of the other RBs in camp.
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I'm curious as to what reports you read. While I've read that Henry has once again had a very good camp, I haven't read that he was better than any of the other backs. In fact, I've read quite a few articles that said Foster appears to have a lock on the job, and that Slaton appears to have recovered from his injury and is ready to reassume a prominent role in the offense. I have read good reports on Henry, but none that suggest he will be the #1 RB come the start of the season.
 
THE NFL said:
I dont think Tate will ever be THE GUY. I think he will be a great addition for Goal line and short yardage situations. He doesnt break away and have big runs. He doesnt have great speed.

MY understanding and from what I have read is the best RB in camp has been Chris Henry.

I dont have alot of faith in Slaton. I think he was a flash in the pan. Foster did his damage late season when it really didnt matter.

I dont have alot of faith in the Texans rushing potential. The Texans O Line is a lass blocking finesse O Line. They dont beat the crap out of you.
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Ben Tate may never be the guy. You never can tell about these things. But he's a 220 pound back that runs a 4.43 40. That's the 3rd fastest time of any running back at this year's combine and faster than all but 4 of the wide receivers. You can say a lot about this guy but you can't say he's not fast. I mean, you can... but if you do, you're a fool.

You say he doesn't break big runs? He averaged over 4 yards a carry and broke at least a couple of 50+ yard runs last season. He had over 100 yards in a quarter against Arkansas.

Chris Henry has looked good in camp, but that's his history. He always looks good in camp. He hasn't been a game, though.

And you can say what you want about this line but this type of block scheme has at times been just as effective in goal line situations as power blocking schemes.

The main thing is that this year, we have more better running options than any time in our history. Our RBs are deeper than ever and our line will be better as well.
 
THE NFL said:
The reports I have read say that Henry has run better than any of the other RBs in camp.
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Then link it, excuse me them since it is multiple reports, all us other poor Texans fans haven't heard or witnessed when we have been at the practices. It's the little earth looking button with the little link next to it.
 
THE NFL said:
Tate did NOT run a 4.3. He ran a 4.43 HUGE difference.

The reports I have read say that Henry has run better than any of the other RBs in camp.
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Welcome to TexansTalk!

Could YOU explain what the difference of .13 seconds accounts for on the field? If you could drill down on how it affects hitting the hole in the ZBS scheme and also evading tacklers in a dead sprint that would be terrific. Perhaps you have some video, or you could chart it out, to illustrate the HUGE difference.

We should be linking reports, it is the correct thing to do, since you are only regurgitating someone else work, and gives other member's the ability to understand, not only your intel, but your analysis.

Lastly, given that most folks here go to training camp, all the games and/or live the Texans experience 365 days a year and share here daily, the above would probably be a best practice for you in order to be "adopted" more quickly into the community. With football season here, and the optimism abounding, who wouldn't want to be part of this community? :texflag:
 
I have not heard much about him but I think Jeremiah Johnson is still on the roster too. So, some one should pan out from those five.
 
We will see how great this O Line and RB corps is come the season.

The Texans have always had alot of back sin camp. Having alot of RB options doesnt mean you have a great running game. if you dont have a great O Line and a talented runner you wont.


Alot of you overvalue guys like Slaton and Foster and Tate, as well as the OLine. What has this OLine done before? Why now all of a sudden are they going to be throwing DLines all over the place. They arent new. The Texans Oline is a pass blocking finesse group. They are big by NFL standards.

I think they will be better, but lets not go to far with this " mauling people " stuff. The Texans arent that team.
 
Texecutioner said:
Coach Gary Kubiak described rookie Ben Tate's training camp performance thus far as "up and down."
"He’s every bit the talent that we drafted," Kubiak said.
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I did not start a breakdown tape on Tate.
I simply said that he's worthy of his draft status.
There's really no need to break down his games.
He's a solid all-around back.
As long as he stays healthy he will have a solid NFL career.
He may not be IT, but he's the best prospect at RB the Texans ever had, bar none!

A good combination of power and speed.
Can make guys miss to break the big ones as well as fight for extra yardage with defenders hanging onto him.
Can catch the ball. Can block.
Good vision to make the correct cut.
And yet, he also knows how to use his blockers.
Overall, he knows when to plow straight ahead, and when he should wait just a hair for the block to develop.

He was very good at Auburn.
Can he make the transition to the NFL?
That remains to be seen.
But from the look of it, he earned the right to be drafted in the 2nd round.

I had reviewed pretty much all of his games in his senior year - including all the conference games.
And I did read pretty much all the reports that were out there (including all the major ones.)

But, hey, it's still just one guy's opinion! :tiphat:
 
THE NFL said:
We will see how great this O Line and RB corps is come the season.

The Texans have always had alot of back sin camp. Having alot of RB options doesnt mean you have a great running game. if you dont have a great O Line and a talented runner you wont.


Alot of you overvalue guys like Slaton and Foster and Tate, as well as the OLine. What has this OLine done before? Why now all of a sudden are they going to be throwing DLines all over the place. They arent new. The Texans Oline is a pass blocking finesse group. They are big by NFL standards.

I think they will be better, but lets not go to far with this " mauling people " stuff. The Texans arent that team.
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Explain why they were just one win away from the playoffs last season. You say they'll be better well, if they are any better they'll be in the post season which is all I care about. Neg rep for you from me.
 
THE NFL said:
Alot of you overvalue guys like Slaton and Foster and Tate, as well as the OLine.
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I just want to deal with this line here. What has Henry done? I mean, in an actual game? Slaton rushed for over 1200 yards his rookie season (I forget the actual number), and Foster tore it up the last 2 games. Henry has 122 yards in his career, and a 3.8 average per carry.
 
76Texan said:
He's a solid all-around back.
As long as he stays healthy he will have a solid NFL career.
He may not be IT, but he's the best prospect at RB the Texans ever had, bar none!

A good combination of power and speed.
Can make guys miss to break the big ones as well as fight for extra yardage with defenders hanging onto him.
Can catch the ball. Can block.
Good vision to make the correct cut.
And yet, he also knows how to use his blockers.
Overall, he knows when to plow straight ahead, and when he should wait just a hair for the block to develop.
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None of that really matters if he doesn't have his head on straight. When we hear things about how he doesn't get his motor running right away, I have to question some things about him. You get a shot to win the job in TC, you better take it. He's not. All the physical stuff won't matter if his mind's not right.
 
THE NFL said:
We will see how great this O Line and RB corps is come the season.

The Texans have always had alot of back sin camp. Having alot of RB options doesnt mean you have a great running game. if you dont have a great O Line and a talented runner you wont.


Alot of you overvalue guys like Slaton and Foster and Tate, as well as the OLine. What has this OLine done before? Why now all of a sudden are they going to be throwing DLines all over the place. They arent new. The Texans Oline is a pass blocking finesse group. They are big by NFL standards.

I think they will be better, but lets not go to far with this " mauling people " stuff. The Texans arent that team.
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Dude.

What the hell are you talking about? The only person talking about mauling people is you. No one here said our offensive line was going to maul anyone.

But Slaton and this offensive line did have a respectable season a couple of years ago and the line we have today is better than the line we had then. Even last year, the problem wasn't as much with the line not opening the seams as it was with the running backs not reading the holes correctly. A lot of yardage was left on the field last year. Foster's production at the end of the season showed that the offensive line was doing its job.

This year's stable of running backs is much more talented that the running backs of previous years. A fat Steve Slaton and Chris Brown and Ryan Moats vs. a quicker Steve Slaton and Ben Tate and Arian Foster... who you gonna take?

We're not going to maul people. We're not going to throw defensive lines all over the place. We don't have to. We're going to be better than last year. Probably significantly better.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Dude.

What the hell are you talking about? The only person talking about mauling people is you. No one here said our offensive line was going to maul anyone.

But Slaton and this offensive line did have a respectable season a couple of years ago and the line we have today is better than the line we had then. Even last year, the problem wasn't as much with the line not opening the seams as it was with the running backs not reading the holes correctly. A lot of yardage was left on the field last year. Foster's production at the end of the season showed that the offensive line was doing its job.

This year's stable of running backs is much more talented that the running backs of previous years. A fat Steve Slaton and Chris Brown and Ryan Moats vs. a quicker Steve Slaton and Ben Tate and Arian Foster... who you gonna take?

We're not going to maul people. We're not going to throw defensive lines all over the place. We don't have to. We're going to be better than last year. Probably significantly better.
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Just disregard him TPN.
 
THE NFL said:
We will see how great this O Line and RB corps is come the season.

The Texans have always had alot of back sin camp. Having alot of RB options doesnt mean you have a great running game. if you dont have a great O Line and a talented runner you wont.


Alot of you overvalue guys like Slaton and Foster and Tate, as well as the OLine. What has this OLine done before? Why now all of a sudden are they going to be throwing DLines all over the place. They arent new. The Texans Oline is a pass blocking finesse group. They are big by NFL standards.

I think they will be better, but lets not go to far with this " mauling people " stuff. The Texans arent that team.
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Where did you get all these stuffs about mauling and throwing people around?

The ZBS is predicated on "not to lose" yardage if possible, and then breaking for a medium run when the back can find the hole (it may be small) quickly.
And when he receives a 2nd level block from a releasing lineman (or TE) and/or his receiver(s), he could break a big one.

Slaton's rookie year was an example.

And may I remind you that the Niners of old built a dynasty with smaller lines (on both sides of the ball; they were even smaller than the Texans as compare with the NFL standard at the time.)
Roger Craig made All-Pro and was in the Pro-Bowl 4 times behind those TINY O-linemen.

On the other side of the ball, in 1984, for example, their D ranked first against scoring, and 7th in yard allowed.
The NT Tuiasosopo weighed 255 lbs and he was their biggest!

The Colts are very comparable to the Texans (on both sides of the ball).
But James had some good years.
Addai also had a couple of productive years until he was injured in his third and hasn't looked the same).
 
gary said:
He does know what he's talking about but be my guest if you'd like.
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If he says that we said that our offensive line was a bunch of maulers that were going to throw opposing defensive lines around the field like rag dolls, then he doesn't know what he's talking about.

If he thinks that this group of running backs is of the same talent level of the groups of running backs we've had in the past, then he doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
C Madd said:
Rotoworld gets all their information from team websites and city newspapers. At least that's how it was when I worked for them. They are probably much quicker now since I was the only one updating football info when I was working there.
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What was your job there? Over the last two years I've pretty much followed most of what Chris Rosenthal puts in his weekly rankings. He's the best guy out there for FF advice to me. Other than that though, Roto always has the quickest updates as to depth chart changes, coaching comments, and just random info that you need to know.

How did you get a job there?
 
eriadoc said:
None of that really matters if he doesn't have his head on straight. When we hear things about how he doesn't get his motor running right away, I have to question some things about him. You get a shot to win the job in TC, you better take it. He's not. All the physical stuff won't matter if his mind's not right.
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Let's not forget that he is coming back from a hamstring injury.

And IMHO, I think Kubiak wanted to build the confidence of the other guys too. We have a lot of young backs.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If he says that we said that our offensive line was a bunch of maulers that were going to throw opposing defensive lines around the field like rag dolls, then he doesn't know what he's talking about.

If he thinks that this group of running backs is of the same talent level of the groups of running backs we've had in the past, then he doesn't know what he's talking about.
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I left the word not out.:)
 
THE NFL said:
I dont think Tate will ever be THE GUY. I think he will be a great addition for Goal line and short yardage situations. He doesnt break away and have big runs. He doesnt have great speed.
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Earnest Graham, Willis Mcgahee, Marion Barber, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, Lendale White, Brandon Jacobs, and many many others have all been similar backs that didn't have a ton of break away speed to where they hit the HR plays regularly. All of them have been very good and effective runners in between the tackles though and have been able to have strong roles on their teams in instances where they didn't have to be the main back. Sometimes those slower guys that are strong bangers in between the tackles are some of the most effective backs to have in the NFL.

Hell, if Tate could end up playing a role similar to Marion Barber over the last 5 years I'd be just fine with that.
 
Texecutioner said:
Earnest Graham, Willis Mcgahee, Marion Barber, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, Lendale White, Brandon Jacobs, and many many others have all been similar backs that didn't have a ton of break away speed to where they hit the HR plays regularly. All of them have been very good and effective runners in between the tackles though and have been able to have strong roles on their teams in instances where they didn't have to be the main back. Sometimes those slower guys that are strong bangers in between the tackles are some of the most effective backs to have in the NFL.

Hell, if Tate could end up playing a role similar to Marion Barber over the last 5 years I'd be just fine with that.
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I think you could put Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton in that grouping as well.
 
Texecutioner said:
What was your job there? Over the last two years I've pretty much followed most of what Chris Rosenthal puts in his weekly rankings. He's the best guy out there for FF advice to me. Other than that though, Roto always has the quickest updates as to depth chart changes, coaching comments, and just random info that you need to know.

How did you get a job there?
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This was in 2001 so I never talked to Rosenthal. There were only two guys running the site at the time and it was only getting about 100k hits per month, according to them. I played a fantasy baseball game called Baseball Challenge with both guys, Matthew Pouliot and Troy Beech. I'm not sure if Beech still works there but he took care of all the advertising while Matthew did most of the article writing. Troy asked me if I wanted to write one day and I submitted a sample of my writing. They hired me to do the updates for baseball at first, then it progressed to football and writing a few fantasy football articles.

I was supposed to start profit sharing after a certain amount of time but I quit to focus on college. Now they're huge and my college degree isn't helping find a job in this economy. :pissed:

All the writers they have now are so much better than me, anyways. They probably would have to had given me a different job or fired me.
 
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