So Dunta what are you going to do??

[ChampionTexan]

Reputable GMs let their players walk.

I was under the impression GMs were also responsible for acquiring and keeping good players. I also think they have some accountability for the product on the field.

If all they have to do is let players walk, I think I'd like to apply for that high paying gig.

======

I also think Dunta should sign the tender.

Well, the Texans could do just that. But, they haven't. probably because they believe Dunta is a much better defender than their fans give him credit for. If they didn't believe Robibson was better than any other free agent CB on the market, the Texans could have kept the franchise tag in their pocket and used the cap room to acquire another CB. That they did not should tell us they believe Robinson can help this team win.

Dead-on Lucky!. This is group-think at it's best/worst. The fact that a significant and vocal portion of this board believes that Dunta's not worth keeping, and therefore the Texans should let him go for nothing - either now by removing the franchise tag, or next year is ridiculous. Not because it might not be true, but because it's been said on this board so many times that folks are just mindlessly accepting it as truth (and if you're reading this saying to yourself "He couldn't possibly mean me", my apologies, you're right, I don't mean you - just almost everyone else).

The same holds true of the idea that Dunta wants to leave Houston more than anything in the world. No reason to be so positive about that, and even if it's true right now, a less than stellar season by Dunta, and he may not be in a position to move on, and a stellar season by Dunta and he may get enough money thrown at him that he suddenly wants to be a Texan forever (or he gets franchised again, and the saga continues).

 

[Runner]

Giving in means he'll be giving in, with all the future fancy frills that will go with it.

And it's quite telling that you said "in your words, "not that good a corner". That tells me that you don't share my opinion of him. If you did, I don't think you'd be so critical of Smith. If I thought Dunta was worth the money, I'd probably be just as critical as you.

I'm glad we've finally discovered the bottom line.

I've been critical of Dunta for not accepting the $23M (if true). I've also been critical of him not signing franchise tag, whether he gets tagged next year or not. Both are very lucrative offers for him and his skill level. I used your words because I think Dunta is good enough that the Texans need him on defense this year. Many seem to think otherwise because they are mad at him, I guess.

There is no need to look for a hidden bottom line with me. My bottom line is that Smith carries fault in some of this. He isn't perfect. I'm surprised at how many people argue against that.

=======

That being said, I think I have discovered the problem - I read posts and don't apply the fandom escalation factor:

1. The Texans are a great team = 8-8;8-8 = Average
2. Kubiak is a great head coach = tough on offense, tough to be on defense = Average
3. The Texans have great players = until they complain or something goes wrong = Average
4. Rick Smith is a great GM = some free agent hits, some misses; doesn't do too many bad contracts, can't get some key contracts done = Average

I accept Rick Smith is average to this point with the Texans.

Giving in means he'll be giving in, with all the future fancy frills that will go with it.

What is this future furbelow of which you speak?

 

[Norg]

Well since our secondary these past two weeks has been getting Burned and reeves might not even be back by wk 3 i think we need to just Make this deal happen we are in a bind ..... Make it happen front office

Dunta is not the best but if he does not play for us u might has well kiss our playoff hopes goodbye

even if he is here we still might not make the playoffs but with him not here our chances go down even more

 

[Runner]

Dead-on Lucky!. This is group-think at it's best/worst. The fact that a significant and vocal portion of this board believes that Dunta's not worth keeping, and therefore the Texans should let him go for nothing - either now by removing the franchise tag, or next year is ridiculous. Not because it might not be true, but because it's been said on this board so many times that folks are just mindlessly accepting it as truth (and if you're reading this saying to yourself "He couldn't possibly mean me", my apologies, you're right, I don't mean you - just almost everyone else).

The same holds true of the idea that Dunta wants to leave Houston more than anything in the world. No reason to be so positive about that, and even if it's true right now, a less than stellar season by Dunta, and he may not be in a position to move on, and a stellar season by Dunta and he may get enough money thrown at him that he suddenly wants to be a Texan forever (or he gets franchised again, and the saga continues).

Wait a minute! Why was I included in the anti-Dunta group think, especially via a post where I said that a GM's highest calling isn't to let players walk? I must protest!

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

It's too late to come into camp early. Dunta is staying out of camp so that he doesn't mess up his game checks with a freak injury. The cornerbacks have been awful so I don't see him coming in till the games are real. Dunta has all the leverage...but it's cool. Franchise him next year too. If he plays as well as he thinks he will someone will give us a first round pick and we can be done with him after this season. If he doesn't, you didn't overpay for a guy long term. The way I see it, it's win - win.

.............unless, of course, he really sucks wind this season, which is not entirely out of the question.

 

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Giving in means he'll be giving in, with all the future fancy frills that will go with it.

What is this future furbelow of which you speak?

Smith has already stated, publicly, that he will not agree to not franchising Dunta next year. To give in and reverse that decision, would mean that you can no longer take him for his word. Now, you could word that more kindly and say he just changed his mind. But what happens in the future with other player negotiations? He'll have a history of "changing his mind". The next time that negotiations reach an impasse, that players' agent will keep that in mind. He'll just tell his client, "He has a history of changing his mind when the pressure builds, so we'll just hold out until we get what we want."

Smith might have a reputation for being "abrasive", but I think he'll take that instead of a reputation of caving in. But then again, who cares about the future. We just want to win now, right?

(And I didn't really need to spell that out for you, did I?)

 

[SteveSlaton20]

I'm tired of no playoffs, sign the guy already.

 

[ChampionTexan]

Wait a minute! Why was I included in the anti-Dunta group think, especially via a post where I said that a GM's highest calling isn't to let players walk? I must protest!

You were included because I didn't edit the quotes in Lucky's post. I really didn't even focus on the fact they were there - just on his actual post.

 

[disaacks3]

Asking CBs to play for stats is absurd. First, they have no control on whether the receiver they cover is targeted. Second, the last thing you want from a CB is to play outside the defense and try to jump routes looking for picks. That would be a disaster.

How so? Is it any more absurd than the items in Haynesworth's contract? Albert had to worry about the whole TEAM winning x number of games! He also had to make the Pro-bowl (he can't control voting, right?)

How about x number of interceptions / passes defensed, 9 wins, etc. added to his "don't franchise me twice" contract.

If he's as good as Haynesworth, he should be able to ensure that these things occur by his mere PRESENCE, right?

If he wants to be treated in the same class as players that are considered FAR superior at their individual positions, why is it somehow unfair to ask him to meet the same sort of criteria?

What's the worst that can happen if the Texans franchise him again? He instantly gets a 20% raise to THIS year's tender. At that point, we're talking "Gamble-like $$" for TWO years work!

All of the above comments don't suggest fault on EITHER party, but merely take precedent into account from a 'business model' PoV.

 

[Runner]

You were included because I didn't edit the quotes in Lucky's post. I really didn't even focus on the fact they were there - just on his actual post.

Whew! I've been getting beaten up by one side of the issue; I didn't want the second side to see me in the middle and pile on.

 

[Vinny]

It's too late to come into camp early. Dunta is staying out of camp so that he doesn't mess up his game checks with a freak injury. The cornerbacks have been awful so I don't see him coming in till the games are real. Dunta has all the leverage...but it's cool. Franchise him next year too. If he plays as well as he thinks he will someone will give us a first round pick and we can be done with him after this season. If he doesn't, you didn't overpay for a guy long term. The way I see it, it's win - win.

.............unless, of course, he really sucks wind this season, which is not entirely out of the question.

I covered that too...If he plays poorly then at the least you didn't tie up your cap with a big signing bonus a la Gary Walker. Dunta is protecting his game checks, and the Texans are protecting their future. It's kinda ugly but it happens all the time in this league. We just haven't franchised too many players in this team's existence.

 

[Marcus]

I'm tired of no playoffs, sign the guy already.

Yeah, I agree. Sign the guy to whatever he wants. He's not worth it, but sign him anyway.

Respectfully yours,

Charley Casserly

 

[Texecutioner]

Yeah, I agree. Sign the guy to whatever he wants. He's not worth it, but sign him anyway.

Respectfully yours,

Charley Casserly

Co signed AL Davis.

 

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Marcus



What is this future furbelow of which you speak?

Smith has already stated, publicly, that he will not agree to not franchising Dunta next year. To give in and reverse that decision, would mean that you can no longer take him for his word. Now, you could word that more kindly and say he just changed his mind. But what happens in the future with other player negotiations? He'll have a history of "changing his mind". The next time that negotiations reach an impasse, that players' agent will keep that in mind. He'll just tell his client, "He has a history of changing his mind when the pressure builds, so we'll just hold out until we get what we want."

Smith might have a reputation for being "abrasive", but I think he'll take that instead of a reputation of caving in. But then again, who cares about the future. We just want to win now, right?

(And I didn't really need to spell that out for you, did I?)

Well, apparently he changed his mind/went back on his word when he franchised Dunta after saying he wouldn't. That is neither here nor there, because I'm sure it can be argued he was forced into it.

To answer your last question, no it wasn't. I've been waiting to use my new word "furbelow", and you gave me the opportunity.

 

[Double Barrel]

Smith going back on his word is [allegedly] what got us to this point to begin with [according to Robinson].

Interesting to note the disconnect between the Texans FO and #23 detractors. On the one hand, the FO values the player, showing a willingness to pay a reported $23 million guaranteed and franchising him to make $10 million this year (plus the option to franchise him again next year). They obviously think highly of the guy, or they would not bother (correct?). But, on the other hand, many Texans fans have him rated as a horrible CB, who cannot cover and is only good because of some tackling ability at one time and whatever perceived leadership to the defense.

It is a strange disconnect that D.Rob haters do not seem to be pointing any fingers at the FO who rates the player so much higher than they do.

 

[Marcus]

To answer your last question, no it wasn't. I've been waiting to use my new word "furbelow", and you gave me the opportunity.

Yeah, and you made me go look it up, ya turd.

1. A ruffle or flounce on a garment.
2. A piece of showy ornamentation.

Tells me right there you weren't making a lick of sense.

 

[gary]

Oy oy. Are we still going on about Dunte? If I were GM this whole saga would be all over by now. I'd agree to his terms and pay him the money that he is not even worth. He plays well make him a new offer and ask him if he'd like to stay if he says yes then fine. If he has a poor season and or would like to leave then let him walk and move on through the draft/FA. Make him happy along with the whole staff. Problem solved. Click on the link below to hear Dunte's good by song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqxo1SKB0z8&feature=channel_page

 

[Runner]

Yeah, and you made me go look it up, ya turd.

1. A ruffle or flounce on a garment.
2. A piece of showy ornamentation.

Tells me right there you weren't making a lick of sense.

My definitions included:
1.a ruffle or flounce, as on a woman's skirt or petticoat.2.any bit of showy trimming or finery.

Your "future fancy frills" = my furbelow's "showy trimming". I take poetic license, since many of my posts are poetic and near lyrical.

 

[disaacks3]

Smith going back on his word is [allegedly] what got us to this point to begin with [according to Robinson].

Interesting to note the disconnect between the Texans FO and #23 detractors. On the one hand, the FO values the player, showing a willingness to pay a reported $23 million guaranteed and franchising him to make $10 million this year (plus the option to franchise him again next year). They obviously think highly of the guy, or they would not bother (correct?). But, on the other hand, many Texans fans have him rated as a horrible CB, who cannot cover and is only good because of some tackling ability at one time and whatever perceived leadership to the defense.

It is a strange disconnect that D.Rob haters do not seem to be pointing any fingers at the FO who rates the player so much higher than they do.

I'm not a hater, but you're over-simplifying the situation here. Your assumption is that the F.O. rates him higher than the fans do. You don't seem to recognize the other possibility...that the F.O. really had no other choice if they wished to retain his services in the short-term.

IMHO - I don't seriously think that the F.O. believes that he is WORTH the franchise $$, but they also realize that they had no choice when a deal at numbers they could live with could NOT be struck in time. At that point, it became a franchise him or lose him choice. While 'distasteful' to the F.O., D-Rob (even at 80%) was better than most if not all the starters we had (in coverage) at the time. He's better than ANY CB we've EVER had for "laying the wood". All that said, nobody in the NFL was willing to part with two #1's for him (in addition to the potentially burdensome contract for damaged goods). 31 other teams were NOT restricted from making him an offer, or from talking to him.

 

[Double Barrel]

Dude, you keep throwing out there that nobody offered two first round picks for D.Rob. Are you high?

IMHO - I don't seriously think that the F.O. believes that he is WORTH the franchise $$,

What makes you assume that?

 

[Lucky]

And it's quite telling that you said "in your words, "not that good a corner". That tells me that you don't share my opinion of him. If you did, I don't think you'd be so critical of Smith. If I thought Dunta was worth the money, I'd probably be just as critical as you.

If you don't believe Robinson is a good CB, how can you support Rick Smith's decision to tie up nearly $10 million in cap space by applying the franchise tag? That baffles me.

Smith has already stated, publicly, that he will not agree to not franchising Dunta next year. To give in and reverse that decision, would mean that you can no longer take him for his word.

Rick Smith needs to worry less about how he's perceived by players and agents in the future, and more about what it will take to win, now. Because Rick Smith needs to win, else there will be someone else in the GM chair when contract time rolls around in 2010.

How about x number of interceptions / passes defensed, 9 wins, etc. added to his "don't franchise me twice" contract. All of the above comments don't suggest fault on EITHER party, but merely take precedent into account from a 'business model' PoV.

I attempted to explain why a team wouldn't want a CB chasing stats. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's not a great idea to pursue individual statistical incentives in a team sport.

BTW, it wasn't because these franchise players obtained a certain "class" that led these teams to waive the future franchise tag. These teams were looking to win and win big. They didn't want the distraction of a camp holdout or take the chance that the tagged player would miss a portion of the regular season (as they could, since they have until week 10 to sign the offer sheet).

Regarding the "business model" comment, yes pro football is a business. But, any business can have a tipping point. I believe the Texans have reached that point. The status quo is no longer acceptable for the fans, players, or the owner. Win now, and Houston is the Texan's oyster. An 8th consecutive non-winning seasons will turn this franchise into the 21st century's Cardinals or Saints and cause the fanbase to lose faith. Every decision this organization makes should revolve around winning now.

It is a strange disconnect that D.Rob haters do not seem to be pointing any fingers at the FO who rates the player so much higher than they do.

I don't remember the Dunta-haters coming out of the closet until after he was franchise tagged. I could probably look back via a forum search and find posters whose opinion changed greatly, post-tag.

If I were GM this whole saga would be all over by now.

gary for GM!

 

[Marcus]

Smith going back on his word is [allegedly] what got us to this point to begin with [according to Robinson].

Interesting to note the disconnect between the Texans FO and #23 detractors. On the one hand, the FO values the player, showing a willingness to pay a reported $23 million guaranteed and franchising him to make $10 million this year (plus the option to franchise him again next year). They obviously think highly of the guy, or they would not bother (correct?). But, on the other hand, many Texans fans have him rated as a horrible CB, who cannot cover and is only good because of some tackling ability at one time and whatever perceived leadership to the defense.

It is a strange disconnect that D.Rob haters do not seem to be pointing any fingers at the FO who rates the player so much higher than they do.

I have stated in many posts, and I will re-state it here DB, that I am extremely pissed off that Smith offered him $23 million guaranteed. That was, in my view, a totally ridiculous, Charlie Casserlyish, and stupid offer to make to a CB recovering from a serious injury. But he wasn't a shutdown corner to begin with. Not even near it. Yeah, he made the crowd happy with his hits, but his coverage skills sucked. But this why I'm just blown away by some on here that actually think Smith didn't, or isn't doing the upmost to bring him into camp. So you're going to blame Smith for going back on his word after that dumbass actually turned down that ridiculous offer, an offer that shouldn't have been made to begin with ???

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[painekiller]

nah. He is protecting his game checks and the cornerbacks are awful so he really doesn't have to come in, and yes, the team does miss him whether we understand this or not. He doesn't get any money for getting hurt in camp. The Texans want him in camp, but have no leverage since he gets no bonus and no way to protect himself if he gets hurt. If the Texans want him in early they have to make a move...something I wouldn't do since I think they need to keep the ability to franchise him next season so they can salvage a pick for him if he shows up and has a big year. Either way, at this point it's win-win for the Texans going forward. You can't do anything about camp, but you haven't degraded your leverage as a franchise by potentially salvaging a pick for a player that you may not want anymore, although you need him on the field badly.

He gets almost $10M even if he is hurt. What he doesn't get is the $12M next season if he get hurt bad. So turning down the reported $23M guaranteed was IMO a foolish thing. Dunta is not a top five CB in the league, he the best on our team in theory, but not top five in the league.

 

[bpe3]

The problem with this whole discussion is that it went to 43 posts before anyone even mentioned the possibilty of Dunta getting hurt this year. THAT my friends is the entire issue and no one here is even discussing it.

Dunta wants a longer term deal with more guaranteed money. The Texans believe it's too risky to make that kind of commitment to him, so they franchise him. The Texans pay more in 2009 by franchising him and in return the Texans get the option to pull the plug anytime after this season. Dunta gets a little more bank this year, but assumes ALL the risk of a career ending injury. If he gets hurt this year, the next 16 game checks he cashes may be the last nickel he ever gets from the NFL.

Injuries happen. Even is the odds of suffering a career ending injury are small, they aren't worth taking. The Texans are forcing Dunta to take ALL the downside risk.

If I were Dunta, I'd be laying low unitl the Jets come to town. There's no sense taking the field now. It's all risk and zero reward. Perhaps he'll have some rust to shake off the first few weeks of the season, but as long as he finishes strong, no one will hold it against him.

Daunta will play every game in 2009. That's what players do. They play. The get paid. Happy or no happy, Dunta has all the motivation in the world to excel in 2009. When the season is over, the whole sitiation will be reevaluated in the light of future events we cannot now predict. And this discussion will occur all over again.

bpe3

 

[Marcus]

Now, this is what I don't understand.

He can't come into camp until he signs the $10 million tender.

So if he gets hurt in camp, and is lost for the season, how does he lose out on the $10 million? What difference does it make whether reports early, or waits until Game 1?

 

[Jackie Chiles]

Now, this is what I don't understand.

He can't come into camp until he signs the $10 million tender.

So if he gets hurt in camp, and is lost for the season, how does he lose out on the $10 million? What difference does it make whether reports early, or waits until Game 1?

Yes he gets the money either way but every day that he sits out is another day that he has 0% chance to be injured. If you are going to get paid either way why take the risk, even if it is minimal.

On the other hand if he did decide to show up now that would be a nice character statement that could help him make some more bucks in the future.

 

[SteveSlaton20]

Yeah, I agree. Sign the guy to whatever he wants. He's not worth it, but sign him anyway.

Respectfully yours,

Charley Casserly

lol

even not at his best, he's easily the best cb on the team.

 

[Marcus]

Yes he gets the money either way but every day that he sits out is another day that he has 0% chance to be injured. If you are going to get paid either way why take the risk, even if it is minimal.

Mario or Schaub or AJ get paid either way. Do you want them to sit out camp to eliminate the risk of getting injured?

On the other hand if he did decide to show up now that would be a nice character statement that could help him make some more bucks in the future.

On the other hand, if did decide to show up, he might not look lost out there on opening day, or rusty as hell from missing camp. Look for him to get torched for a couple of TDs by the Jets. I swear, I won't have to say a thing. Hell, I won't get a word in edge-wise

 

[Vinny]

He gets almost $10M even if he is hurt. What he doesn't get is the $12M next season if he get hurt bad. So turning down the reported $23M guaranteed was IMO a foolish thing. Dunta is not a top five CB in the league, he the best on our team in theory, but not top five in the league.

You're right about the money. As soon as he signs he is guaranteed all 17 game checks right? You don't have be a top 5 player to get the franchise tag though. For instance, the Titans franchised Bo Scaife and he isn't close to a top 5 player so I'm not sure what your point is with that. Every team has a right to protect one guy who they can't come to terms with, but has some greater value. This year it's Dunta for the Texans.

 

[aj.]

The minute Dunta signs the tender, the full amount is guaranteed against skill and injury. He could re-rip the hammy in his first practice and he cashes nearly $10 million.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

Mario or Schaub or AJ get paid either way. Do you want them to sit out camp to eliminate the risk of getting injured?



On the other hand, if did decide to show up, he might not look lost out there on opening day, or rusty as hell from missing camp. Look for him to get torched for a couple of TDs by the Jets. I swear, I won't have to say a thing. Hell, I won't get a word in edge-wise

I merely gave you a reason why Dunta is not showing up, I never said I didn't want him here, I very much want him in camp. Regardless his situation is completely different from those guys because they are actually under contract. If they were to sit out they get fined. If Dunta wants the maximum amount of money out of the franchise tag he HAS to show up and play for every single game during the regular season. He doesn't have to show up for the preseason so I ask again, why risk the injury?

I completely agree with your second point, that is another great reason for him to show up to camp asap.

 

[disaacks3]

Dude, you keep throwing out there that nobody offered two first round picks for D.Rob. Are you high?


What makes you assume that?

Christ I'm getting tired of having to spell this out...

A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

So, where were all these GREAT offers that the Texans wouldn't match? There were probably teams that might have considered doing that for Asomugha, but NOT D-Rob. (which is precisely why Aso was set to be an EXCLUSIVE Franchise Tag for the second year in a row before reaching his deal with the Raiders) To extrapolate, that means the Raiders weren't even willing to part with him for TWO first rounders. The Texans, on the other hand would have been more than happy to get two first-rounders for D-Rob.

What makes me assume that the F.O. doesn't really think he's worth 9.965mil in annual salary? I don't know, a loose grip on his relative worth? What makes you think they thought he WAS? Tagging him does NOT equal them feeling he was worth it, only that they had to do it or lose him to free agency after the deal period was over, there isn't any leeway.

Three options:
1) Sign him to a new contract.
2) Tag him
3) Don't tag him, or remove the tag and he's an unrestricted free agent.

If you can't do a deal with D-Rob and his NEW Agent (that's right he got a new one before this fun all started), then you're left w/ options 2 & 3 ONLY. Only option two keeps the Texans "ownership" of D-Rob intact - otherwise he can sign with anybody, for any price, and the Texans don't get to match.

 

[TEXANRED]

I don't remember the Dunta-haters coming out of the closet until after he was franchise tagged. I could probably look back via a forum search and find posters whose opinion changed greatly, post-tag.

I wouldn't say I am a hater but I wouldn't say I am a fan of DRobs either. The only thing he is good for is the hard hit and a high lite of him knocking out Marvin Harrison. I more remember him for tripping and falling in the open field and him giving up the deep pass by Collins to lose the game.

He is most definitely not worth top 5 money and he is not worth top 10 money. I would even go so far as to say that he is not worth Chris Gamble money.

What has DRob done in this league other than run his mouth? How many games has he dominated? How many times has he made a game changing play? What has he ever done to alter the course of a game ala Aaron Glenn? How many pro bowels has he been to? Sure he started to show signs 2 years ago, 2. Thats how long its been. And we go off and give him 10 million.

Of course I did predict it and said it would happen. I just didn't know he would sit out. Thats what really bothers me.

 

[forcefollow]

I talked to a guy, who knows a guy, who knows Dunta's 3 cousin twice removed. He said and I think he's a legit source, that dunta is laying out of camp to protect his knee and will sign with the Texans the week before the regular season opener.

 

[Hervoyel]

I wouldn't give him his request of not franchising him next season. I'd let him sit out camp, then he can come in late and be the best cornerback on the roster. He's currently degrading the worth of his next contract by not being fully prepared to look to his best ability on tape, so by not being in camp, he hurts his game tape. If he has a fantastic year, franchise him again next year and deal him if someone gives you a first round pick. If they don't, do the same thing to him. Wash, rinse, repeat....there's no crying in football. (just had to use one of these spiffy new smilies)

That was my position as well but as you know I've got this idea in my head that Dunta is vastly overrated by a talent starved Texans fan base and so I conclude that franchising him this year is a necessity but franchising him next year, not so much. Sure if he suddenly becomes the kind of corner he's never been before then you do what you're advocating but I suspect that this is the year Dunta plays himself completely out of any chance of stupid big-contract money. I don't think that by the end of the 2009 season anybody is going to be saying "We got to franchise Dunta again!"

I question whether he's still even the player he was before the injury.

We'll draft a corner in 2010 in the first round hopefully and try again to find that guy to be our 1. Our 2 will be the best of Reeves, Bennett, or Molden. By the end of this year the best two of those will be our starters. After the draft the lesser of the two starters will sit in favor of the rookie CB.

Long term prognostication hasn't been my strong suit but ever now and then I get one exactly right and this feels right to me.

 

[gary]

gary for GM!

Lucky, I'd like to see Dunte stay here but first I'd like to see him do the following three things.
1. Play well on the field.
2. Be happy here and get a deal done.
3. Not get hurt.

If he does not do these three things then there isn't any sence in keeping him IMO.

 

[Vinny]

That was my position as well but as you know I've got this idea in my head that Dunta is vastly overrated by a talent starved Texans fan base and so I conclude that franchising him this year is a necessity but franchising him next year, not so much. Sure if he suddenly becomes the kind of corner he's never been before then you do what you're advocating but I suspect that this is the year Dunta plays himself completely out of any chance of stupid big-contract money. I don't think that by the end of the 2009 season anybody is going to be saying "We got to franchise Dunta again!"

I question whether he's still even the player he was before the injury.

We'll draft a corner in 2010 in the first round hopefully and try again to find that guy to be our 1. Our 2 will be the best of Reeves, Bennett, or Molden. By the end of this year the best two of those will be our starters. After the draft the lesser of the two starters will sit in favor of the rookie CB.

Long term prognostication hasn't been my strong suit but ever now and then I get one exactly right and this feels right to me.

I donno what is going to happen (long term) either but I do know a couple of things. Dunta will be here, playing for us when the season starts, and without him our corner situation is bleak. At least he allows us to play some credible bump and run. Bennett looked like he can't hang and the new 38 can't press either. The other guys are young, unproven and ready for the toaster. For some reason I have a higher opinion of Dunta's pre injury play than you have. I think he makes a great CB2 and is a super asset as a blitzer covering the slot wr. He makes us much more versatile in our scheme.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

I donno what is going to happen (long term) either but I do know a couple of things. Dunta will be here, playing for us when the season starts, and without him our corner situation is bleak. At least he allows us to play some credible bump and run. Bennett looked like he can't hang and the new 38 can't press either. The other guys are young, unproven and ready for the toaster. For some reason I have a higher opinion of Dunta's pre injury play than you have. I think he makes a great CB2 and is a super asset as a blitzer covering the slot wr. He makes us much more versatile in our scheme.

I would love to see us use him as a blitzer this year, it seems like he had great success with that as a rook and then I've hardly seen us try it since. Hardest hit we have ever gotten on Peyton was Dunta coming from his blindside.

 

[eriadoc]

For some reason I have a higher opinion of Dunta's pre injury play than you have. I think he makes a great CB2 and is a super asset as a blitzer covering the slot wr. He makes us much more versatile in our scheme.

I do as well, and I know why. First, I've watched it with my own two eyes. Pre-injury, Dunta had all the skills you'd want from a CB. He hadn't put it all together consistently yet, and he isn't top 5, IMO, but he had it and was progressing. Second, Kubiak even said he was thinking Dunta was headed to the Pro Bowl in '07 before he got injured. I've quoted it here before, and people still spout off with the "he's only had one good season" line, ignoring or forgetting the '07 season. He was having his best season ever in '07 before that injury.

If he ever returns to form, I don't know. But pre-injury, the guy was a helluva lot better than most of the posters here give him credit for. Those posters all seem to cling to one play as their defining moment for him. Whatever.

 

[Livid13]

So they slapped the franchise tag on him. If he's healthy, he takes away 1/3 of the field. Be happy he's staying. For how long is something for you all to gripe about next season.....

 

[GP]

Three options:
1) Sign him to a new contract.
2) Tag him
3) Don't tag him, or remove the tag and he's an unrestricted free agent.

If you can't do a deal with D-Rob and his NEW Agent (that's right he got a new one before this fun all started), then you're left w/ options 2 & 3 ONLY. Only option two keeps the Texans "ownership" of D-Rob intact - otherwise he can sign with anybody, for any price, and the Texans don't get to match.

Bingo.

We don't want him shafting us by walking away and signing with another team for near the amount we would have paid him. I have a hunch that the GM knows that the CB wants out of Houston, due to Dunta begging Smith to promise that he wouldn't tag him again. Is Dunta for real? He just gave away his whole hand in this card game.

He's ours. Nobody else is going to offer adequate compensation for OUR former first round draft choice. Why would we let other teams get OUR first rounder? That was OUR draft pick. When you hit on a draft pick, you kinda' don't like the idea of another team nabbing the guy at the first opportunity.

I really hope that Dunta and his agent and the GM and his team can sit down and work out a strategy that gets him signed and traded...maybe not THIS season, but put it into motion all season and have some teams lined out for the off-season.

He wants to move on. It's pretty obvious to the casual observer that he's not thrilled to be a Texan anymore, no matter how much he claims otherwise.

Tag him to no end if he and his new agent are going to play ball like this.

 

[disaacks3]

Heck, I LOVE what Dunta brought to the game. That's my biggest issue right now - too much reference to the PAST tense. I want to see IF he can still bring it for a whole season at 100% post-injury.

This contract snafu notwithstanding - He needed the reps in camp/pre-season in order to:

1. Get up to "game speed".
2. Learn the nuances of the new Defense and his role in it.

The argument has been that he'll be "ready" come Game #1. IMHO - that's just not possible. The best I'm hoping for right now is that he sees the field against the Jets and doesn't give up more than 2 big plays. How many plays do you see where the defensive player "nearly" makes the play? that game of inches it what's being lost every day he's out. The only argument on his behalf I can see right now is that he's avoiding injury in "meaningless games". It's a valid argument, but it certainly isn't what precipitated this whole mess.

 

[Hervoyel]

I do as well, and I know why. First, I've watched it with my own two eyes. Pre-injury, Dunta had all the skills you'd want from a CB. He hadn't put it all together consistently yet, and he isn't top 5, IMO, but he had it and was progressing. Second, Kubiak even said he was thinking Dunta was headed to the Pro Bowl in '07 before he got injured. I've quoted it here before, and people still spout off with the "he's only had one good season" line, ignoring or forgetting the '07 season. He was having his best season ever in '07 before that injury.

If he ever returns to form, I don't know. But pre-injury, the guy was a helluva lot better than most of the posters here give him credit for. Those posters all seem to cling to one play as their defining moment for him. Whatever.

Well, I have a pair of eyes as well and mine didn't see what yours did. Pre-injury Dunta was exactly who I remember him to be. Fast but frequently out of position, hard hitting but often failing to wrap his man up. He's been a nice player for us but he's never become the player he wants to be paid like and he wasn't on his way to being that player in 2007 either. Kubiak may have said he was on his way to the Pro Bowl that year but Kubiak says a lot of things that don't mean **** when he's talking to somebody who's sticking a mike in his face. or answering questions following a game (particularly if it's following a beat down of his "kids").

Dunta played in 9 games in 2007 but he was injured in one and didn't finish it so lets call it 8 games.

He had 30 solo (35 total) tackles which is on a pace for 60 (70 total) and that would have been his lowest number of tackles since he got here. He was on a pace for 4 interceptions which is two less than he got as a rookie.

With his wicked speed and insane blitzing ability he'd recorded exactly zero sacks. His rookie season he treated us to three of those.

I'm sorry man but Dunta has had exactly one good season and the rest have been "alright" at best. I've never denied that he's the best we have at his position and I know we need him. I'm not taking a dump on him over this because he isn't in camp though. I'm just being honest about what I think of him as a CB and it comes form years of watching him be "almost" the guy we like to think he is.

Dunta came back from his injury and did pretty much the exact same thing that he did in 2007 though of course stats don't say everything and just like you saw more than the stats would indicate in 2007 I think that the majority of people here (including Dunta I might add) saw less than his 2008 stats would lead you to believe about his play. He's said he was "not 100%" and that he could do better but you know what? His history here says that he's doing just about what he's always done.

I'm done with the topic until he comes back in and proves me completely wrong, get his first Pro Bowl spot, and then signs a long-term contract to lead the Houston secondary to respectability.

I hope that happens. I don't expect it though.

 

[eriadoc]

This contract snafu notwithstanding - He needed the reps in camp/pre-season in order to:

1. Get up to "game speed".
2. Learn the nuances of the new Defense and his role in it.

... assuming it's actually a new defense, right?

 

[Hervoyel]

... assuming it's actually a new defense, right?

This is exactly what I worry about when I worry.

But I'm trying not to worry so it's all good.

 

[Livid13]

Well, I have a pair of eyes as well and mine didn't see what yours did. Pre-injury Dunta was exactly who I remember him to be. Fast but frequently out of position, hard hitting but often failing to wrap his man up. He's been a nice player for us but he's never become the player he wants to be paid like and he wasn't on his way to being that player in 2007 either. Kubiak may have said he was on his way to the Pro Bowl that year but Kubiak says a lot of things that don't mean **** when he's talking to somebody who's sticking a mike in his face. or answering questions following a game (particularly if it's following a beat down of his "kids").

Dunta played in 9 games in 2007 but he was injured in one and didn't finish it so lets call it 8 games.

He had 30 solo (35 total) tackles which is on a pace for 60 (70 total) and that would have been his lowest number of tackles since he got here. He was on a pace for 4 interceptions which is two less than he got as a rookie.

With his wicked speed and insane blitzing ability he'd recorded exactly zero sacks. His rookie season he treated us to three of those.

I'm sorry man but Dunta has had exactly one good season and the rest have been "alright" at best. I've never denied that he's the best we have at his position and I know we need him. I'm not taking a dump on him over this because he isn't in camp though. I'm just being honest about what I think of him as a CB and it comes form years of watching him be "almost" the guy we like to think he is.

Dunta came back from his injury and did pretty much the exact same thing that he did in 2007 though of course stats don't say everything and just like you saw more than the stats would indicate in 2007 I think that the majority of people here (including Dunta I might add) saw less than his 2008 stats would lead you to believe about his play. He's said he was "not 100%" and that he could do better but you know what? His history here says that he's doing just about what he's always done.

I'm done with the topic until he comes back in and proves me completely wrong, get his first Pro Bowl spot, and then signs a long-term contract to lead the Houston secondary to respectability.

I hope that happens. I don't expect it though.

That was a good post.

 

[disaacks3]

... assuming it's actually a new defense, right?

If it isn't...8-8 is back on the menu.

 

[Marcus]

Well, I have a pair of eyes as well and mine didn't see what yours did. Pre-injury Dunta was exactly who I remember him to be. Fast but frequently out of position, hard hitting but often failing to wrap his man up. He's been a nice player for us but he's never become the player he wants to be paid like and he wasn't on his way to being that player in 2007 either. Kubiak may have said he was on his way to the Pro Bowl that year but Kubiak says a lot of things that don't mean **** when he's talking to somebody who's sticking a mike in his face. or answering questions following a game (particularly if it's following a beat down of his "kids").

Dunta played in 9 games in 2007 but he was injured in one and didn't finish it so lets call it 8 games.

He had 30 solo (35 total) tackles which is on a pace for 60 (70 total) and that would have been his lowest number of tackles since he got here. He was on a pace for 4 interceptions which is two less than he got as a rookie.

With his wicked speed and insane blitzing ability he'd recorded exactly zero sacks. His rookie season he treated us to three of those.

I'm sorry man but Dunta has had exactly one good season and the rest have been "alright" at best. I've never denied that he's the best we have at his position and I know we need him. I'm not taking a dump on him over this because he isn't in camp though. I'm just being honest about what I think of him as a CB and it comes form years of watching him be "almost" the guy we like to think he is.

Dunta came back from his injury and did pretty much the exact same thing that he did in 2007 though of course stats don't say everything and just like you saw more than the stats would indicate in 2007 I think that the majority of people here (including Dunta I might add) saw less than his 2008 stats would lead you to believe about his play. He's said he was "not 100%" and that he could do better but you know what? His history here says that he's doing just about what he's always done.

I'm done with the topic until he comes back in and proves me completely wrong, get his first Pro Bowl spot, and then signs a long-term contract to lead the Houston secondary to respectability.

I hope that happens. I don't expect it though.

Yes, a good post indeed.

 

[Mr teX]

The ridiculous stats argument again....

THis is funny. The same people who are saying he's "average" and not worth this or that are worried about him leaving if the FO decides to drop the Franchise tag. If he's not worth what he says he is & he can be easily replaced, what the hell are you all worried about losing him in FA for?

Anybody who saw us against the saints can see what we have out there now isn't going to get it. Bennett looks like certified trash with busted coverage and all kinds of missed tackles - and injury issues of his own. McCain & Quinn clearly aren't ready.

 

[Texecutioner]

The ridiculous stats argument again....

THis is funny. The same people who are saying he's "average" and not worth this or that are worried about him leaving if the FO decides to drop the Franchise tag. If he's not worth what he says he is & he can be easily replaced, what the hell are you all worried about losing him in FA for?

Anybody who saw us against the saints can see what we have out there now isn't going to get it. Bennett looks like certified trash with busted coverage and all kinds of missed tackles - and injury issues of his own. McCain & Quinn clearly aren't ready.

So what are you suggesting?? That we give into his demands and pay him all of this money that he isn't worth to where we're strapped for cash in the next few years???

Why don't we just take a knife and cut this team's wrist open then?