So Dunta what are you going to do??

[Texecutioner]

Well I remember a few folks saying early on when the Dunta talks first started saying stuff like until camp starts and if he isn't there, then that's when I'll be upset or that's when I'll worry.

Well we're now way past that and two pre season games into the start of the season and still no Dunta and nothing has really changed. Dunta is still at home sucking his thumb and using his pacifier.

I think it's put up or shut up time for this guy now since we only have two more pre season games. Either come in and sign and get into camp and prove yourself for this season, or well don't show up at all, don't get paid, and we'll officially move on without you. Time to officially make the call Dunta. You should know by now you're in no real position of leverage and you really aren't holding a flush in your hands right now. You're holding on to a pair of Queens at best and that's not going to cut it in negotiations. What is it going to be Dunta?

 

[Runner]

I think it's also time for Rick Smith to get his thumb out and do whatever it is that supposedly "great" GMs do to resolve a contract impasse.

 

[Pantherstang84]

I like post #1 in this thread better.

 

[Runner]

I like post #1 in this thread better.

Well sure. Why look to BOTH sides of a negotiation to bear responsibility. Black and white thinking is much easier to handle than dealing with messy gray areas.

It will also be enjoyable to read the inevitable posts that the Texans are loaded at secondary and don't need Dunta anyway. That's just more proof Smith has handled these negotiations perfectly.

 

[Lucky]

I think it's put up or shut up time for this guy now since we only have two more pre season games. Either come in and sign and get into camp and prove yourself for this season, or well don't show up at all, don't get paid, and we'll officially move on without you. Time to officially make the call Dunta. You should know by now you're in no real position of leverage...

If you've seen any of the Texans preseason games, you would know that Robinson does have leverage. He's needed on the Texans defense. Gary Kubiak knows that. Rick Smith knows that. Bob McNair knows that.

They also know that they will look foolish by caving in to Dunta's demand of no franchise tag guarantee in 2010. They could have cut that deal in July, and Robinson would have here throughout camp. So if they want to get their franchise CB on the team prior to Week 1, the front office has to make a choice. Do they want to (not) look foolish? Or do they want to do everything possible to have a playoff team in 2009? What are the Texans going to do?

 

[SheTexan]

Maybe where the FO looks foolish is not picking up a reputable CB in the draft or FA in the frist place! Dunta is unhappy, and regardless of what the FO does, he's not gonna play well this year. Is Dunta worth all the hype? You guys have been discussing this issue for months, and looks like the discussions continue. He's made his fair share of screwups in the past also. To me, the question is: will we be better off with him or without him. Our secondary plays like they did the past two games, esp last Sat, and I'd say an unhappy Dunta would be better than what we have right now. This is something we as fans have known for months!!! WHY didn't RS, Bush, and Kubes not know this?? Maybe they're not as great as some of you on this board think they are. JMO! The screwup started in the front office. If they wanted Dunta bad enough to place a franchise tag on him this saga should have been settled a LONG time ago, and Dunta would be on the field rather than basking in the limelight at home.

Both sides needs to have their heads examined.

 

[noxiousdog]

I think it's also time for Rick Smith to get his thumb out and do whatever it is that supposedly "great" GMs do to resolve a contract impasse.

Reputable GMs let their players walk.

 

[silvrhand]

Maybe where the FO looks foolish is not picking up a reputable CB in the draft or FA in the frist place! Dunta is unhappy, and regardless of what the FO does, he's not gonna play well this year. Is Dunta worth all the hype? You guys have been discussing this issue for months, and looks like the discussions continue. He's made his fair share of screwups in the past also. To me, the question is: will we be better off with him or without him. Our secondary plays like they did the past two games, esp last Sat, and I'd say an unhappy Dunta would be better than what we have right now. This is something we as fans have known for months!!! WHY didn't RS, Bush, and Kubes not know this?? Maybe they're not as great as some of you on this board think they are. JMO! The screwup started in the front office. If they wanted Dunta bad enough to place a franchise tag on him this saga should have been settled a LONG time ago, and Dunta would be on the field rather than basking in the limelight at home.

Both sides needs to have their heads examined.

If we don't put more pressure on the QB and DL it wouldn't matter if we had Darrell Green.

 

[Runner]

I think it's also time for Rick Smith to get his thumb out and do whatever it is that supposedly "great" GMs do to resolve a contract impasse.

Reputable GMs let their players walk.

I was under the impression GMs were also responsible for acquiring and keeping good players. I also think they have some accountability for the product on the field.

If all they have to do is let players walk, I think I'd like to apply for that high paying gig.

======

I also think Dunta should sign the tender.

 

[Hervoyel]

If you've seen any of the Texans preseason games, you would know that Robinson does have leverage. He's needed on the Texans defense. Gary Kubiak knows that. Rick Smith knows that. Bob McNair knows that.

They also know that they will look foolish by caving in to Dunta's demand of no franchise tag guarantee in 2010. They could have cut that deal in July, and Robinson would have here throughout camp. So if they want to get their franchise CB on the team prior to Week 1, the front office has to make a choice. Do they want to look foolish? Or do they want to do everything possible to have a playoff team in 2009? What are the Texans going to do?

I'd agree with this if Dunta Robinson had proven in the past that he was as much of a shutdown cornerback as he thinks he is and could put stop great receivers consistently but his playing history does not bear this out. He's just the most expensive, highest selected "average" cornerback that we (would) have on the roster. I see where the need is but I don't see this man being able to do much to address it.

I guess he'll bring his magical Dunta "everybody plays better when I'm out there" powers and make it all good. Regardless I do think the organization should go ahead and give him his no franchise tag next year promise. I mean, why not? I'd have a press conference to announce it and tell everybody "You know, this one is on us. I mean really, what were we thinking? We franchised THIS guy? Does anyone have him rated as even one of the top 20 CB's in the game today? Has he had a single season that equaled his rookie campaign?" Hell, I'd like to un-franchise him if I could but we'll play the game and here's our word in writing. We won't franchise you again in 2010 Dunta. Now get in here and try and convince the rest of the world that somebody should pay you what you think you're worth".

Seriously, I'd give him what he wants and piss him off at the same time just to see what kind of player came in. Then I'd draft damn near nothing but DB's next year and move on.

 

[Hervoyel]

I was under the impression GMs were also responsible for acquiring and keeping good players. I also think they have some accountability for the product on the field.

If all they have to do is let players walk, I think I'd like to apply for that high paying gig.

======

I also think Dunta should sign the tender.

I think he meant that they know when it's time to let players walk and when to put the screws down on them and keep them right here. In Dunta's case we probably should have gone ahead and given him what he wanted after franchising him. Smith should just accept that he won the 2009 battle but Dunta will be gone in 2010 and be happy with that.

 

[silvrhand]

I'd agree with this if Dunta Robinson had proven in the past that he was much of a cornerback and could reliably shut anybody down but his playing history does not bear this out. He's just the most expensive, highest selected "average" cornerback that we (would) have on the roster. I see where the need is but I don't see this man being able to do much to address it.

100% agree, Dunta will not fix 90% of the issues we have with our defense, it starts up front and if those guys get no penetration or get blown off the ball allowing linemen to into the LB's with little to no effort, it's going to be a LONG year for the defense.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I am not sure how Dunta would have helped our DTs not get pushed around like rag dolls against the Saints.

 

[drewmar74]

Maybe where the FO looks foolish is not picking up a reputable DEFENSIVE TACKLE / NOSE TACKLE in the draft or FA in the frist place!

Fixed it for you.

 

[Thorn]

Personally, I think Cushing who has already signed a contract will be of more use to us when he starts playing, rather than Dunta. JMO.

 

[GP]

I'd agree with this if Dunta Robinson had proven in the past that he was as much of a shutdown cornerback as he thinks he is and could put stop great receivers consistently but his playing history does not bear this out. He's just the most expensive, highest selected "average" cornerback that we (would) have on the roster. I see where the need is but I don't see this man being able to do much to address it.

I guess he'll bring his magical Dunta "everybody plays better when I'm out there" powers and make it all good. Regardless I do think the organization should go ahead and give him his no franchise tag next year promise. I mean, why not? I'd have a press conference to announce it and tell everybody "You know, this one is on us. I mean really, what were we thinking? We franchised THIS guy? Does anyone have him rated as even one of the top 20 CB's in the game today? Has he had a single season that equaled his rookie campaign?" Hell, I'd like to un-franchise him if I could but we'll play the game and here's our word in writing. We won't franchise you again in 2010 Dunta. Now get in here and try and convince the rest of the world that somebody should pay you what you think you're worth".

Seriously, I'd give him what he wants and piss him off at the same time just to see what kind of player came in. Then I'd draft damn near nothing but DB's next year and move on.

Post of the month.

I, too, have been on the "Draft nothing but DBs in the next draft" bandwagon.

Excellent post.

 

[Runner]

So the Texans are weak at secondary. Again.

And the Texans are weak at DT. Again.

This is a long running pattern. Can this organization change it this year? Do we count on them to fix it in just one more draft/free agency period?

 

[noxiousdog]

I was under the impression GMs were also responsible for acquiring and keeping good players. I also think they have some accountability for the product on the field.

If all they have to do is let players walk, I think I'd like to apply for that high paying gig.

======

I also think Dunta should sign the tender.

When was the last time Philly, New England, Indy, or Pittsburgh caved on a contract demand? Even the Titans let Haynesworth walk.

 

[Runner]

I was under the impression GMs were also responsible for acquiring and keeping good players. I also think they have some accountability for the product on the field.

If all they have to do is let players walk, I think I'd like to apply for that high paying gig.

======

I also think Dunta should sign the tender.

When was the last time Philly, New England, Indy, or Pittsburgh caved on a contract demand? Even the Titans let Haynesworth walk.

I'm not sure what this list of teams has to do with my thoughts that GMs are responsible for acquiring and keeping good players, but I'll play.

I don't know the answer to your question. I have one for you though. When was the last time any of these teams had as many consecutive non-winning seasons as the Texans? How about half as many?

If the Texans had any semblance of the success of these teams, maybe the front office would have earned the slack many are giving them. That slack is starting to look more and more like rope to me.

 

[dc_txtech]

If you've seen any of the Texans preseason games, you would know that Robinson does have leverage. He's needed on the Texans defense. Gary Kubiak knows that. Rick Smith knows that. Bob McNair knows that.

They also know that they will look foolish by caving in to Dunta's demand of no franchise tag guarantee in 2010. They could have cut that deal in July, and Robinson would have here throughout camp. So if they want to get their franchise CB on the team prior to Week 1, the front office has to make a choice. Do they want to look foolish? Or do they want to do everything possible to have a playoff team in 2009? What are the Texans going to do?

How does he have any leverage? If he wants to get paid he will be suited up week one for the Jets.

Dunta will be in the lineup this year when the games matter. If he plays well then we can offer him a contract at the end of the season, if he doesn't agree to it we can franchise him again. And if he has a bad season, we let him walk.

Sure it would be nice to have the guy in camp but I don't see how he has any leverage.

 

[TheRealJoker]

When was the last time Philly, New England, Indy, or Pittsburgh caved on a contract demand? Even the Titans let Haynesworth walk.

The Tacks agreed not to franchise Haynesworth in 2009 and the Pats agreed not to franchise Asante Samuel in 2008. It sounds like that's what Dunta wants the Texans to do.

 

[Hervoyel]

I am not sure how Dunta would have helped our DTs not get pushed around like rag dolls against the Saints.

He wouldn't have obviously. The problem is that I'm not sure how Dunta would have helped our corners cover wideouts in the unlikely event that our DT's do get pressure and stop the run.

He's not and never will be a shutdown corner. He's the best of an average group and coincidentally more expensive but he's not going to be worth the money we pay him this year and he likely wouldn't have been if we'd given him his no-franchise in 2010 promise the day we franchised him. It was a mistake to do this but it isn't going to dramatically alter our defense in either direction now if he comes in the night before our first game or this morning. It wouldn't have made that much difference if he'd been in camp all along.

Pay him, promise him, play him, and then draft his replacement and move on. Let him go check the free agent market and see if he can scrounge up some "Dan Snyder Crazy Bucks" or just go where he's happy. The faster this ends the better in my eyes. See, this is not a big deal really until the defense lays an egg like they did against the Saints. Then the Dunta vs Rick show becomes a distraction to everyone. Smith should go ahead and give him his word that he won't franchise him like I said and then tell everyone that will listen that it wasn't a big deal really doing that because Dunta's not worth the franchise money just to see if Dunta whips out one of those contract year seasons that blow your mind.

 

[Hervoyel]

The Tacks agreed not to franchise Haynesworth in 2009 and the Pats agreed not to franchise Asante Samuel in 2008. It sounds like that's what Dunta wants the Texans to do.

It is and despite the fact that Dunta isn't in either of those players league the Texans should agree to his demands I think because a) he's not worth the bank he'd cost, and b) it makes the Texans look reasonable, generous even, and fair when dealing with one of their "name" players.

 

[Goatcheese]

I don't think it matters at this point.

Playing a half with the starters in game 3 isn't going to make a meaningful difference in how well he plays week 1.

I'm just hoping he's been in touch with his buddy Fred peaking at the playbook so he's not completely lost.

 

[noxiousdog]

I'm not sure what this list of teams has to do with my thoughts that GMs are responsible for acquiring and keeping good players, but I'll play.

I don't know the answer to your question. I have one for you though. When was the last time any of these teams had as many consecutive non-winning seasons as the Texans? How about half as many?

If the Texans had any semblance of the success of these teams, maybe the front office would have earned the slack many are giving them. That slack is starting to look more and more like rope to me.

Wait. So your theory is to be a good team we should emulate the Raiders and Redskins of the world?

 

[noxiousdog]

The Tacks agreed not to franchise Haynesworth in 2009 and the Pats agreed not to franchise Asante Samuel in 2008. It sounds like that's what Dunta wants the Texans to do.

Both are superior players to Robinson, but it's a fair point.

At this point though another week without Dunta isn't going to change much.

 

[Specnatz]

It is and despite the fact that Dunta isn't in either of those players league the Texans should agree to his demands I think because a) he's not worth the bank he'd cost, and b) it makes the Texans look reasonable, generous even, and fair when dealing with one of their "name" players.

OK fine put in the same stipulations Haynesworth had in his. Including making the probowl. Do you think Dunta would like that and would he sign it.

 

[Runner]

Wait. So your theory is to be a good team we should emulate the Raiders and Redskins of the world?

Sorry - I don't see where I said that.

I do say that the front office is not without accountability in the success/failure of this team though.

Some others seem to think every problem is the entire fault of the players, no matter what the problem is.

I see a bunch of players not putting in effort and not improving, and I question them, the people that built the team with them, and the people who are supposed to have them ready to play.

 

[GP]

So where we're at, is this:

We're going to either...

1. Get Dunta to sign a one-year deal (spending $9.whatever million on him)

or

2. Go without the guy by either un-franchising him, to let him walk, or not have to pay him because he possibly chooses to sit out the season. Which would spare us the money for one year, at the cost of not having Dunta on the team at all.

Cushing better play UP this year. Otherwise, we should have spent the 1st pick on a cornerback to even out the secondary, IMO.

 

[thunderkyss]

The franchise tag is the teams leverage tool to work towards a reasonable contract for both sides. You offer a player $15 million guaranteed, he balks because he wants $24 million.. you franchise him & pay him only $10 million.

Dunta has no leverage here. The last few weeks of 2008, where the Defense played so well..... Dunta didn't. Not in my opinion. He missed tackles he routinely made. He wasn't that fearsome hitter we all knew & loved. I personally think we'd be throwing money away if he does sign the contract.

If I were the Texans, I'd bring McAllister & Surtain in, and give them a shot at making this team as well. I'm thinking they can't be much worse than the rookies we've got, and they've got to be willing to play on the cheap, this late in the season.

But they obviously see something I don't see. They aren't as knee Jerky in this situation as I would be....

& that might be a good thing.

But I wouldn't guarantee Dunta's no franchise clause. If the Texans want Dunta that badly, if I were Smith, I would guarantee to make him the top paid CB in the league, if he is a top 10 DB in 3 stats. Tackles, INTs, & passes defensed.

 

[J. Sean Wonton]

Well sure. Why look to BOTH sides of a negotiation to bear responsibility. Black and white thinking is much easier to handle than dealing with messy gray areas.

It will also be enjoyable to read the inevitable posts that the Texans are loaded at secondary and don't need Dunta anyway. That's just more proof Smith has handled these negotiations perfectly.

Dunta will you please forgive Smith and come back? We need you man!

 

[thunderkyss]

Cushing better play UP this year. Otherwise, we should have spent the 1st pick on a cornerback to even out the secondary, IMO.

We've got a second rounder in Bennett & a third rounder in Molden... If Smithiak did their job right, that should be a respectable tandem. Then you throw in Reeves.... who is avg at worst, and Deltha O'Neal, and we should be ok. As a corner back, I don't think Dunta Robinson is anything but avg in that group. If he's not the same tackler he used to be, and he doesn't bring the wood like he used to do...... I think we are much better off without him.

 

[Texecutioner]

Sorry - I don't see where I said that.

I do say that the front office is not without accountability in the success/failure of this team though.

Some others seem to think every problem is the entire fault of the players, no matter what the problem is.

I see a bunch of players not putting in effort and not improving, and I question them, the people that built the team with them, and the people who are supposed to have them ready to play.

Okay Runner, I'm usually in agreement with you on most things especially regarding the front office, but in this case I just don't think you get it.

Dunta is not that great of a player. He is very good at times, but he's not worth what he is asking and our front office should NOT hitch their wagon to a guy that's had an injury like he has. Franchising him this year is not a bad thing for him, and he's really really foolish to think that he's somehow being done wrong here. His little act may be hurting the Texans some, but it's hurting himself a hell of a lot worse. At the end of the day the Texans still hold the cards in their hands and most fans won't blame management in this situation.

Now as far as promising NOT to franchise Dunta next season, Uuuuummm yeah, if that's the whole problem here then yeah they need to do that and like Herv said realize we won this season, but let him go next season, and for all we know his attitude could change by the end of the season if things go well. If they don't then it's no sweat off our backs, because he's gone and we'll be prepared for that.

But remember one thing, he is being over paid by being franchised this season. So he shouldn't be whining over that. And if those rumors were true which I choose to believe that they were about what he was offered, then he was offered a sweet deal over what he's worth right now and he said NO.


The bottom line though, is that I'd really like to get this over with and stop having this thing loom on more and more. Either put up or **** up Dunta. Show up and get ready to play, or make like an egg and beat it!

 

[Runner]

Well sure. Why look to BOTH sides of a negotiation to bear responsibility. Black and white thinking is much easier to handle than dealing with messy gray areas.

It will also be enjoyable to read the inevitable posts that the Texans are loaded at secondary and don't need Dunta anyway. That's just more proof Smith has handled these negotiations perfectly.

Dunta will you please forgive Smith and come back? We need you man!

Heck, I'd be happy to see Smith do something like cut Dunta and use that near ten million bucks to help get Demeco and/or Daniels locked up long term. I don't mean he should overpay them, I mean he should try to find in himself a way to facilitate a successful negotiation.

As it stands now, next year he'll have Dunta in the same situation and the other two as possible problems. Throw in other players who think they've earned an extension (and they might be right), and this current group of negotiation failures just creates a bow wave for next year.

 

[thunderkyss]

Just imagine what Jaques Reeves is going to want, when his contract is up. All his 2008 stats were better than Asante Samuels, Rogers Cromartie, Samari Rolle & Ellis Hobbs.

He had more Passes defensed, Interceptions & touchdowns than Chris Gamble. Cortland Finnegan, Quentin Jammer, Nick Harper, & Terrence Newman.

He's probably thinking $23 million is where he will start.

 

[Texecutioner]

Just imagine what Jaques Reeves is going to want, when his contract is up. All his 2008 stats were better than Asante Samuels, Rogers Cromartie, Samari Rolle & Ellis Hobbs.

He had more Passes defensed, Interceptions & touchdowns than Chris Gamble. Cortland Finnegan, Quentin Jammer, Nick Harper, & Terrence Newman.

He's probably thinking $23 million is where he will start.

Well then he can walk as well, because he can't find a ball in the air to save his life. He won't be worth money like that, and the Texans would be very foolish to pay him anything like that. He was not as good as good as any of those CB's you mentioned other than maybe Cromartie who had a poor season.

 

[Hervoyel]

OK fine put in the same stipulations Haynesworth had in his. Including making the probowl. Do you think Dunta would like that and would he sign it.

I doubt it but personally I wouldn't bother. Just use him for 2009, if he plays really, really well then give him a reasonable offer. When he walks for mad money or just to get out of Houston then move on. I hate to bring up his name in this thread because they don't really compare but think about the Brett Favre saga for a moment. You know who the most contented people involved are? That's right, the Green Bay Packers because they moved on.

To some degree we need to move on. We gave him a generous offer and he declined. Time to draft some CB's and move on.

 

[Lucky]

Hell, I'd like to un-franchise him if I could...

Well, the Texans could do just that. But, they haven't. probably because they believe Dunta is a much better defender than their fans give him credit for. If they didn't believe Robibson was better than any other free agent CB on the market, the Texans could have kept the franchise tag in their pocket and used the cap room to acquire another CB. That they did not should tell us they believe Robinson can help this team win.

I, too, have been on the "Draft nothing but DBs in the next draft" bandwagon.

You know, the Texans have drafted 4 CBs in the past 3 drafts. And signed a mid-level FA CB during that span. If they were convinced that the draft could/would solve the issue at CB, they would have never franchised Robinson in the 1st place. I'm not knocking Bennett, Molden, Quin, or McClain. The question is if they are good enough to win with in 2009. I don't think Kubiak/Smith believe that, else Robinson would have never been tagged.

Dunta has no leverage here. The last few weeks of 2008, where the Defense played so well..... Dunta didn't.

But I wouldn't guarantee Dunta's no franchise clause. If the Texans want Dunta that badly, if I were Smith, I would guarantee to make him the top paid CB in the league, if he is a top 10 DB in 3 stats. Tackles, INTs, & passes defensed.

Dunta did not play as well as say pre-injury 2007 Dunta. No doubt. But, he was better than the guy he replaced in the lineup in the 2nd half of 2008 (Petey Faggins).

Asking CBs to play for stats is absurd. First, they have no control on whether the receiver they cover is targeted. Second, the last thing you want from a CB is to play outside the defense and try to jump routes looking for picks. That would be a disaster.

Just imagine what Jaques Reeves is going to want, when his contract is up. All his 2008 stats were better than Asante Samuels, Rogers Cromartie, Samari Rolle & Ellis Hobbs.

That should tell you everything you need to know regarding the meaningless of stats as they relate to CBs.

What is Dunta Robinson's value? It depends on whom you ask.

What Dunta thinks > What the free agent market thinks > What the Texans think > What the Dunta-bashing Texan fans think.

The Texans believe Robinson's worth nearly $10 million/year (in 2009). Their's is the opinion that counts, right now. Even Robinson acknowledges that. All I'm saying is that Smith should waive the franchise tag in 2010, bring Robinson in, and try to get the $10 million worth CB play out of him. Let's try to win now. Worry about 2010 in 2010.

 

[Marcus]

Heck, I'd be happy to see Smith do something like cut Dunta and use that near ten million bucks to help get Demeco and/or Daniels locked up long term. I don't mean he should overpay them, I mean he should try to find in himself a way to facilitate a successful negotiation.

As it stands now, next year he'll have Dunta in the same situation and the other two as possible problems. Throw in other players who think they've earned an extension (and they might be right), and this current group of negotiation failures just creates a bow wave for next year.

Runner, Texecutioner stole the words right out of my mouth. "Okay Runner, I'm usually in agreement with you on most things especially regarding the front office, but in this case I just don't think you get it."

I can't fathom how you wouldn't want Smith to handle negotiations like other successful teams GMs do, just because this team hasn't had success yet, as if this team is just as old as those other teams are.

And when you speak of these current "negotiation failures" creating a bow wave for next year, just imagine what it be like next year, if Smith caves in, and gives Dunta what he wants.

I think what needs to be remembered here, is that Dunta is not that good of a cornerback. Now even though he still might be the best CB on the team, it is totally and completely beside the point.

 

[eriadoc]

Either come in and sign and get into camp and prove yourself for this season, or well don't show up at all, don't get paid, and we'll officially move on without you.

LOL, you aren't getting your wish at all.

 

[Vinny]

I doubt it but personally I wouldn't bother. Just use him for 2009, if he plays really, really well then give him a reasonable offer. When he walks for mad money or just to get out of Houston then move on. I hate to bring up his name in this thread because they don't really compare but think about the Brett Favre saga for a moment. You know who the most contented people involved are? That's right, the Green Bay Packers because they moved on.

To some degree we need to move on. We gave him a generous offer and he declined. Time to draft some CB's and move on.

I wouldn't give him his request of not franchising him next season. I'd let him sit out camp, then he can come in late and be the best cornerback on the roster. He's currently degrading the worth of his next contract by not being fully prepared to look to his best ability on tape, so by not being in camp, he hurts his game tape. If he has a fantastic year, franchise him again next year and deal him if someone gives you a first round pick. If they don't, do the same thing to him. Wash, rinse, repeat....there's no crying in football. (just had to use one of these spiffy new smilies)

 

[Hervoyel]

It's not Dunta bashing if it's true.

 

[Spike]

The way I see it, we are way too far into camp for there to be any real benefit for the front office to change their tune now. These discussions stopped having relevance after the first week into camp. If the Texans were going to be called on their bluff, they would have caved-in earlier on in camp. They have made a decision that they are not going to let the inmates run the prison, and I just don't think they are going to change their tune now. Surely, after Reeves went down early in camp and Molden was still out, they must have known it wasn't going to be pretty.

I still stand by an earlier post that I made. Dunta is the only one who gains by breaking the stalemate and voluntarily coming in early:
(1) Great PR move personally and professionally. Even though he felt slighted, he can demonstrate that he wants to come back for his teammates and play the game that he loves. No one has more of a distaste for Dunta than I do, but if he made a move like this - I my mind would start to change.
(2) Get in playing shape for the season, start understanding the new season to help himself have good numbers to make himself more marketable next year.
(3) Help the defense along and get the team into the playoffs. The better the Texans play, the more exposure they will get, the better chance that he has for a bigger pay day at the end of the day.
(4) No downside. He is going to get the $10 mil if he comes back now or later. The real risk is that he injures himself in the pre-season, but I think arguably he gives himself a better chance to stay healthy if he gets in playing shape earlier.

 

[Marcus]

All I'm saying is that Smith should waive the franchise tag in 2010, bring Robinson in, and try to get the $10 million worth CB play out of him. Let's try to win now. Worry about 2010 in 2010.

I think if Smith waives the franchise tag, all in the guise of "lets win now, don't worry about the future", he wouldn't, to quote Herv, "make the Texans look reasonable, generous even, and fair when dealing with one of their "name" players".

Rather, it would make him look weak and without backbone in the eyes of future players' agents.

We used to have a GM like that. Maybe we should hire him back.

 

[Runner]

Heck, I'd be happy to see Smith do something like cut Dunta and use that near ten million bucks to help get Demeco and/or Daniels locked up long term. I don't mean he should overpay them, I mean he should try to find in himself a way to facilitate a successful negotiation.

As it stands now, next year he'll have Dunta in the same situation and the other two as possible problems. Throw in other players who think they've earned an extension (and they might be right), and this current group of negotiation failures just creates a bow wave for next year.

Runner, Texecutioner stole the words right out of my mouth. "Okay Runner, I'm usually in agreement with you on most things especially regarding the front office, but in this case I just don't think you get it."

I can't fathom how you wouldn't want Smith to handle negotiations like other successful teams GMs do, just because this team hasn't had success yet, as if this team is just as old as those other teams are?

And when you speak of these current "negotiation failures" creating a bow wave for next year, just imagine what it be like next year, if Smith caves in, and gives Dunta what he wants.

I think what needs to be remembered here, is that Dunta is not that good of a cornerback. Now even though he still might be the best CB on the team, it is totally and completely beside the point.

Take a step back. These negotiations did not start at an impasse. One started with Dunta's contract running out, and both sides wanting a deal.

Daniels' started out with both sides looking for an extension.

Ryans also wanted an extension.

I think part of a good GM's skill set is being able to compromise and to create in the other side the willingness to accept that compromise. I understand the player and his agent also have to be reasonable. Smith seems to reach loggerheads rather than that compromise with players the Texans need to reach their goal of having players under contract.

My point is that Smith has not shown the ability to get a deal done. He has pushed them to the point where no one will give in and he'll deal with them next year.

Let me be clear on this: I think the players share a large part of the blame. I also believe that Smith and his abrasive people skills share just as much blame.

Smith should be able to get a tough deal done at some point. Right now everyone waits until next year. Right now, when Smith and a player pull out that blank piece of paper to work out a contract it remains unsigned. That is a failure, on both sides, of attaining the mutually beneficial goal of a new/extended contract.

====

You ask me to imagine what will happen next year if Smith gives in to Robinson now. Giving in means he has to agree not to franchise Robinson next year. That means he gives up the right to pay, in your words, "not that good a corner" $12M.

 

[Vinny]

The way I see it, we are way too far into camp for there to be any real benefit for the front office to change their tune now. These discussions stopped having relevance after the first week into camp. If the Texans were going to be called on their bluff, they would have caved-in earlier on in camp. They have made a decision that they are not going to let the inmates run the prison, and I just don't think they are going to change their tune now. Surely, after Reeves went down early in camp and Molden was still out, they must have known it wasn't going to be pretty.

I still stand by an earlier post that I made. Dunta is the only one who gains by breaking the stalemate and voluntarily coming in early:
(1) Great PR move personally and professionally. Even though he felt slighted, he can demonstrate that he wants to come back for his teammates and play the game that he loves. No one has more of a distaste for Dunta than I do, but if he made a move like this - I my mind would start to change.
(2) Get in playing shape for the season, start understanding the new season to help himself have good numbers to make himself more marketable next year.
(3) Help the defense along and get the team into the playoffs. The better the Texans play, the more exposure they will get, the better chance that he has for a bigger pay day at the end of the day.
(4) No downside. He is going to get the $10 mil if he comes back now or later. The real risk is that he injures himself in the pre-season, but I think arguably he gives himself a better chance to stay healthy if he gets in playing shape earlier.

It's too late to come into camp early. Dunta is staying out of camp so that he doesn't mess up his game checks with a freak injury. The cornerbacks have been awful so I don't see him coming in till the games are real. Dunta has all the leverage...but it's cool. Franchise him next year too. If he plays as well as he thinks he will someone will give us a first round pick and we can be done with him after this season. If he doesn't, you didn't overpay for a guy long term. The way I see it, it's win - win.

 

[Spike]

It's too late to come into camp early. Dunta is staying out of camp so that he doesn't mess up his game checks with a freak injury. The cornerbacks have been awful so I don't see him coming in till the games are real. Dunta has all the leverage...but it's cool. Franchise him next year too. If he plays as well as he thinks he will someone will give us a first round pick and we can be done with him after this season. If he doesn't, you didn't overpay for a guy long term. The way I see it, it's win - win.

I think your argument supports the fact that he has NO leverage. He is stuck with the threat of the franchise tag being placed on him either way. The only way he ends up the "winner" in this matter (if there is a winner or a loser), is if he plays well enough this season to get a contract better than he was offered by the Texans this year.

 

[Vinny]

I think your argument supports the fact that he has NO leverage. He is stuck with the threat of the franchise tag being placed on him either way. The only way he ends up the "winner" in this matter (if there is a winner or a loser), is if he plays well enough this season to get a contract better than he was offered by the Texans this year.

nah. He is protecting his game checks and the cornerbacks are awful so he really doesn't have to come in, and yes, the team does miss him whether we understand this or not. He doesn't get any money for getting hurt in camp. The Texans want him in camp, but have no leverage since he gets no bonus and no way to protect himself if he gets hurt. If the Texans want him in early they have to make a move...something I wouldn't do since I think they need to keep the ability to franchise him next season so they can salvage a pick for him if he shows up and has a big year. Either way, at this point it's win-win for the Texans going forward. You can't do anything about camp, but you haven't degraded your leverage as a franchise by potentially salvaging a pick for a player that you may not want anymore, although you need him on the field badly.

 

[Marcus]

Take a step back. These negotiations did not start at an impasse. One started with Dunta's contract running out, and both sides wanting a deal.

Daniels' started out with both sides looking for an extension.

Ryans also wanted an extension.

I think part of a good GM's skill set is being able to compromise and to create in the other side the willingness to accept that compromise. I understand the player and his agent also have to be reasonable. Smith seems to reach loggerheads rather than that compromise with players the Texans need to reach their goal of having players under contract.

My point is that Smith has not shown the ability to get a deal done. He has pushed them to the point where no one will give in and he'll deal with them next year.

Let me be clear on this: I think the players share a large part of the blame. I also believe that Smith and his abrasive people skills share just as much blame.

Smith should be able to get a tough deal done at some point. Right now everyone waits until next year. Right now, when Smith and a player pull out that blank piece of paper to work out a contract it remains unsigned. That is a failure, on both sides, of attaining the mutually beneficial goal of a new/extended contract.

Simith has been the GM for 3 years now, so just because there are difficulties going on right now with Dunta, Daniels, and Ryans, how can you put that in a vacuum and say he can't get a deal done with anybody? There's a lot more going on here than him just having an "abrasive" tone.
====

You ask me to imagine what will happen next year if Smith gives in to Robinson now. Giving in means he has to agree not to franchise Robinson next year. That means he gives up the right to pay, in your words, "not that good a corner" $12M.

Giving in means he'll be giving in, with all the future fancy frills that will go with it.

And it's quite telling that you said "in your words, "not that good a corner". That tells me that you don't share my opinion of him. If you did, I don't think you'd be so critical of Smith. If I thought Dunta was worth the money, I'd probably be just as critical as you.

I'm glad we've finally discovered the bottom line.

 

[HOU-TEX]

The Texans need Dunta and Dunta needs the Texans. He'll be here within a couple weeks or so to play this season WITH the Texans.

/End Thread/