Texans will draft a RB in the 1st or 2nd

[Carr Bombed]

If we use Slaton as he was used last year, by the end of the season we are likely to NOT HAVE A STARTING CALIBER RB. He can be expected to consistently do just so much. Most of today's successfull teams run a 2 tag team RB system. Maybe each owns his individual strengths, but their value to the "whole" is usually "equal." How many RBs go down in the NFL through the course of a season? Today, it is almost mandatory that a team has TWO high caliber RBs. Even so, one is likely to limp on the way to the playoffs.

Again.....when have I ever said Houston didn't need another quality runner? I don't believe I ever said that. (regardless if we have a #2 guy, Slaton is still going to be the "starter") I said we don't have to draft one in the first or even second round to fill that hole, that's all I've ever said in this thread. I don't believe anybody in this thread has ever said "we don't need another back and it's all on Slaton's shoulders". If they have, please pull it up. The only thing people are arguing about is "what to spend and where to find" that back (that everybody already agrees that we need).

 

[MojoMan]

Every year, so far without exception, there has been a large group of fans who want to use the Texan's first round pick on an offensive skill player. Regardless of the teams other needs, every year. That obviously includes this year, as proven by this thread.

 

[Carr Bombed]

If we use Slaton as he was used last year, by the end of the season we are likely to NOT HAVE A STARTING CALIBER RB. He can be expected to consistently do just so much. Most of today's successfull teams run a 2 tag team RB system.

Oh BTW here's what Kubiak said on what he expects next year if Houston gets that other runner...

"Obviously, finding a complement to Steve [Slaton] is important. We went the Cedric Benson route [in free agency] and it didn't work out. It's a little nerve wracking, but you can't force something. At least we know we have a good, young one in Slaton. Hopefully, something good will happen there, but, obviously, we have to improve there."

A bigger back should help the Texans in the red zone -- where they ranked 26th in the league in TD production -- and in short-yardage situations, where they need to convert better in crucial spots and would like to limit the pounding on Slaton.

The 5-foot-9 Slaton was listed at 203 last season.

"Obviously, a bigger, more physical guy from a short-yardage and red zone standpoint would make sense," Kubiak said. "But at the same time, I expect Steve to continue to step forward and get better. He ran hard, broke tackles and moved the pile. But, ideally, we'd still like to have a larger back."

Kubiak said in a perfect world, the lead back would get 22 touches, the second guy about 10 or 12.

Where to find the second guy?

"Well, you don't know that until you evaluate the draft and set your board and see how many good ones you have rated to go in what round," Kubiak said. "Then you try to figure out who ahead of you wants one, too. If there are eight backs you really like, then you know you'll probably have to go in the first three rounds to get one. If there are 15, then you might be able to wait until the fourth or fifth rounds."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-8-137/Big-back-possibilities-for-the-Texans.html

So assuming Slaton is the "lead back", which I think is fair to assume....Kubiak expects around 20 touches a game (carries and catches).

Do you know what Slaton's average "touches" were last season?... He only averaged 19.9 touches per game, so Kubiak was already protecting him.

Now lets look at another small quick back who ran in the two "tag team" back system... Chris Johnson, guess what his average "touches" were last season?.... 19.6, right there with Slaton even though he had another "pounder/starting caliber" back with him to take carries.

I think it's pretty obvious Kubiak already had a "touch" count on Slaton and was trying to protect him last season. Just because we pick up another back, it doesn't mean Slaton is going to get less carries....it just means we're going to run the ball more, which is something Kubiak has always preached and said he wanted to do since he's gotten here.....he just hasn't had the backs to do it.

 

[Number19]

Our offense was statistically successful last season. But do you remember how often Slaton was stopped dead at the line of scrimmage or for minus yardage. One thing the team can do to improve the running game, and save some hard knocks on our RB's, is to strengthen the middle of the line.

If Jonathan Luigs falls to us in the 3rd round, we shouldn't hesitate to take him.

I'd then take RB in the 4th and the one I have my eye on is Gatrell Johnson. Badboy, you have Johnson down for the 6th round. I wouldn't be certain he would stay on the board that long. I think he's a riser and I'm worried he may slip into the 3rd and not fall to us in the next round.

I currently have : 1st : Mathews; 2nd : CB Coye Francis; 3rd : Luigs and 4th : Johnson.

With our free agent signings, this addresses everyone of our needs except safety.

 

[threetoedpete]

Nope, 3rd round or later.

Agreed. There will be good players for what Kubes wants to do in the third through fifth rounds. Unless they've changed their collective opinion on Slaton...that he can't handle seventeen touches per game no need to over draft a back up running back. Actually I believe it would be very foolish. Bang the defense early and often I say.

I wanna see Slaton have his shot at his six mill a year contract. ok ? He's earned at least the try at the first round contract. Paying some rookie who's never done anything for us with Slaton's money has no appeal to me. I think it's rather obscene actually.

 

[Lucky]

This is a very deep class for RBs. The deepest one in a while if you ask me.

There's no way this class compares to '08. Three rookies finished among the top 10 in rushing. And that's not including McFadden, Stewart, Rice, Choice, Hightower, or Kevin Smith. It will likely go down as a historic draft for RBs.

Where 1000 yard rushers were drafted since 2000:
7th Round - 1
6th Round - 2
5th Round - 1
4th Round - 4
3rd Round - 6
2nd Round - 9
1st Round - 17

I'm not saying that a 1000 yards is the bottom line for a RB. Jones-Drew has never rushed for 1000 yards in a season, and he's certainly an impact back. Michael Pittman has been a productive reserve RB for years, never a 1000 yard rusher. What I am saying is that, obviously, the better players are more likely to be drafted sooner rather than later. And if a team goes into a draft expecting to find a RB that will produce soon, they shouldn't wait too long.

Not only have the Texans stated their desire for a RB, they have pigeon-holed themselves by looking for a "bigger, more physical guy". There are only so many of these big backs in a draft. We can say the Texans should wait until the ____ round to draft a RB. But, when the Texans pull the trigger will be determined by how the draft plays out. So forget Chris Wells, he will go in the first. Andre Brown, Shonne Greene, and Rashad Jennings may not last until pick #77. The Texans may very well need to use their 2nd round selection on a RB. Or use their 4th from the Rosencopter trade to move up into the late 2nd, early 3rd round area.

 

[threetoedpete]

I don't think our defensive talent is as bad as everyone claims. They just had trouble with injuries in '08 that kept our starters either off the field completely, or greatly hampered.

D-Rob clearly wasn't 100%

Yes it was. They are what they posted in '08. They were eleven to fifteen sacks short. And ten to fifteen turn overs short of being a good mediocre team. Unless the o-line jells in to one of the all time best....something I've seen no one on here project this off season BTW.....the o-line cannot protect the defense. That's not I don't think or I don't believe...that's a fact old Hoss. Detroit...Minnesota....Green Bay....Oakland.....Cleveland.

Now they may improve in the red zone....Shaub might make all sixteen games.
Gambling on last years promising rookies....hopping it all comes out fine in the end....because you want them to draft a front line college star to entertain you....is not going to get them the division crown. You draft to make the defense close to the middle of the pack.....You draft someone who'll elevate the sack bar for '09. And if you're lucky with the first three of four picks....a top twelve defense. Prey you don't have too many o-line injuries.....and have a chance at your first division title.

And guess what ?...that's exactly what they are going to do

....Whether you understand. Whether you think it. Whether you believe it or not.

 

[Carr Bombed]

There's no way this class compares to '08. Three rookies finished among the top 10 in rushing. And that's not including McFadden, Stewart, Rice, Choice, Hightower, or Kevin Smith. It will likely go down as a historic draft for RBs.

Where 1000 yard rushers were drafted since 2000:
7th Round - 1
6th Round - 2
5th Round - 1
4th Round - 4
3rd Round - 6
2nd Round - 9
1st Round - 17

I'm not saying that a 1000 yards is the bottom line for a RB. Jones-Drew has never rushed for 1000 yards in a season, and he's certainly an impact back. Michael Pittman has been a productive reserve RB for years, never a 1000 yard rusher. What I am saying is that, obviously, the better players are more likely to be drafted sooner rather than later. And if a team goes into a draft expecting to find a RB that will produce soon, they shouldn't wait too long.

Not only have the Texans stated their desire for a RB, they have pigeon-holed themselves by looking for a "bigger, more physical guy". There are only so many of these big backs in a draft. We can say the Texans should wait until the ____ round to draft a RB. But, when the Texans pull the trigger will be determined by how the draft plays out. So forget Chris Wells, he will go in the first. Andre Brown, Shonne Greene, and Rashad Jennings may not last until pick #77. The Texans may very well need to use their 2nd round selection on a RB. Or use their 4th from the Rosencopter trade to move up into the late 2nd, early 3rd round area.

So where did you get those stats?, because I can name 4, 4th rounds RBs off the top of my head and I really don't think I'm that good to nail the only 4 since 2000.

Rudi Johnson
Mike Anderson
Domanick Davis
and
Brandon Jacobs...

Also another reason why later round picks don't put up 1,000 yard seasons is because they're mainly drafted to be backups.....which is essentially what we're looking for. The ones that do end up being 1,000 yard backs usually have to wait to get their opportunity through injury or someone trades for them (ala Michael Turner "5th rounder" and heck...even Steve Slaton) I'm also extremely curious to see the ones that barely miss the cut like Marion Barber, another 4th rounder...

 

[Spled]

Check out Beanie Wells dropping dudes with a stiff arm - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f718Ei0TAck&feature=related

 

[Carr Bombed]

Check out Beanie Wells dropping dudes with a stiff arm - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f718Ei0TAck&feature=related

Awesome...but all of these backs have youtube highlight videos, they're being drafted in the league for a reason....they have talent. Ron Dayne was one of the most devastating college runners in NCAA history. I remembered this site was bombarded with Reggie Bush highlight videos. (epic videos, I might add) I'm just saying you have to keep these things in perspective. All the RBs taken next month have skill and have made fools out of plenty of people they've played against.

 

[beerlover]

its not hard to imagine that Knowshon Moreno would be bpa @ #15. however the 2nd rd. pick is hard to tell. Wells, Brown (#2 & #3) will be gone. McCoy is too similar to Steve & Rashad Jennings/Shonn Green may be a little early thus not bpa. 3rd rd. those already mentioned are gone then your left with "can Andre Brown stay healthy" 4th, 5th 6th & 7th rd. picks.

I would not mind hitting RB in 1st then again in 7th & be done with it.

 

[Carr Bombed]

its not hard to imagine that Knowshon Moreno would be bpa @ #15. however the 2nd rd. pick is hard to tell. Wells, Brown (#2 & #3) will be gone. McCoy is too similar to Steve & Rashad Jennings/Shonn Green may be a little early thus not bpa. 3rd rd. those already mentioned are gone then your left with "can Andre Brown stay healthy" 4th, 5th 6th & 7th rd. picks.

I would not mind hitting RB in 1st then again in 7th & be done with it.

How is Moreno going to be the best player available at #15 when he isn't expected to be taken off the board until the end of the first round and Wells might be there at 15?

 

[Goatcheese]

Yes it was. They are what they posted in '08. They were eleven to fifteen sacks short. And ten to fifteen turn overs short of being a good mediocre team. Unless the o-line jells in to one of the all time best....something I've seen no one on here project this off season BTW.....the o-line cannot protect the defense. That's not I don't think or I don't believe...that's a fact old Hoss. Detroit...Minnesota....Green Bay....Oakland.....Cleveland.

Now they may improve in the red zone....Shaub might make all sixteen games.
Gambling on last years promising rookies....hopping it all comes out fine in the end....because you want them to draft a front line college star to entertain you....is not going to get them the division crown. You draft to make the defense close to the middle of the pack.....You draft someone who'll elevate the sack bar for '09. And if you're lucky with the first three of four picks....a top twelve defense. Prey you don't have too many o-line injuries.....and have a chance at your first division title.

And guess what ?...that's exactly what they are going to do

....Whether you understand. Whether you think it. Whether you believe it or not.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your biggest strength, so I'm going to break it down for you in big, red, bold letters.

The Texans 6 best defenders were injured last year.

Read it again.

The Texans 6 best defenders were injured last year.

Let it sink in.

The Texans 6 best defenders were injured last year.

Now stop. Take a minute to think about that. If your six best defenders are injured, might it affect how well your defense plays?

I'm going to go ahead and answer that for you: Yes. Having half your defense injured for much of the season is going to make your defense perform poorly.

I know. I'm crazy with my unconventional thinking.

How can having your best players sitting on the sideline effect the defense you ask? It's quite simple: They're not on the field.

D-Rob missed the first 6 weeks, and wasn't 100% the entire year. Hmm, so our best guy in the secondary missed a lot of time, and wasn't playing as well as he can. Might that have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Okoye missed a few weeks, and was slowed most of the season with injuries. Might our best DT missing time, and being slowed with injuries have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Diles lead the team in tackles through the first half of '08 before breaking his leg. Might our leading tackler missing half the season have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Adibi showed flashes of being a good player in his 5 starts. Might having that young athletic player there for 16 games have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Ryans was nagged with injuries almost the entire year. Might Ryans getting healthy have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Williams is one of the best defenders in all of football, but had a shoulder injury that hampered his play for part of last season. Might having him 100% have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

How many games did we have Williams, Ryans, Robinson, Adibi, Diles, and Okoye start together?

Answer: ZERO

Those guys combined to miss nearly 30 games. If you put all of those guys on the field, healthy for 16 games, with Smith, Wilson, and a 2nd round safety it's going to be a pretty solid defense. They still need to find a solution at #1 CB, and NT but unless Jenkins slips that's not something that looks like an option to fix in round 1.

We also have the added benefit of firing Dick Smith. That should bump our defensive rankings by a lot.

If you all think a 4th rounder can fix our 13th ranked rushing attack, then why do you seem to think the 17th ranked passing defense needs so much more? You should be raving just as much against anyone who suggests drafting a CB or safety in the first 3 rounds.

You seem to have the mistaken belief that we only have one draft pick. New flash, we have EIGHT. Some of those are going to be spent on defense, and some of those players are going to win spots as starters or in a rotation.

How good would the offense be without Schaub, Andre, Walters, Slaton, Winston, and Daniels? Not very good.

That's not I don't think or I don't believe...that's a fact old Hoss.
....Whether you understand. Whether you think it. Whether you believe it or not.

 

[dalemurphy]

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your biggest strength, so I'm going to break it down for you in big, red, bold letters.

The Texans 6 best defenders were injured last year.

Read it again.

The Texans 6 best defenders were injured last year.

Let it sink in.

The Texans 6 best defenders were injured last year.

Now stop. Take a minute to think about that. If your six best defenders are injured, might it affect how well your defense plays?

I'm going to go ahead and answer that for you: Yes. Having half your defense injured for much of the season is going to make your defense perform poorly.

I know. I'm crazy with my unconventional thinking.

How can having your best players sitting on the sideline effect the defense you ask? It's quite simple: They're not on the field.

D-Rob missed the first 6 weeks, and wasn't 100% the entire year. Hmm, so our best guy in the secondary missed a lot of time, and wasn't playing as well as he can. Might that have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Okoye missed a few weeks, and was slowed most of the season with injuries. Might our best DT missing time, and being slowed with injuries have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Diles lead the team in tackles through the first half of '08 before breaking his leg. Might our leading tackler missing half the season have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Adibi showed flashes of being a good player in his 5 starts. Might having that young athletic player there for 16 games have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Ryans was nagged with injuries almost the entire year. Might Ryans getting healthy have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

Williams is one of the best defenders in all of football, but had a shoulder injury that hampered his play for part of last season. Might having him 100% have an impact on how well the defense plays? Let me answer that for you: Yes

How many games did we have Williams, Ryans, Robinson, Adibi, Diles, and Okoye start together?

Answer: ZERO

Those guys combined to miss nearly 30 games. If you put all of those guys on the field, healthy for 16 games, with Smith, Wilson, and a 2nd round safety it's going to be a pretty solid defense. They still need to find a solution at #1 CB, and NT but unless Jenkins slips that's not something that looks like an option to fix in round 1.

We also have the added benefit of firing Dick Smith. That should bump our defensive rankings by a lot.

If you all think a 4th rounder can fix our 13th ranked rushing attack, then why do you seem to think the 17th ranked passing defense needs so much more? You should be raving just as much against anyone who suggests drafting a CB or safety in the first 3 rounds.

You seem to have the mistaken belief that we only have one draft pick. New flash, we have EIGHT. Some of those are going to be spent on defense, and some of those players are going to win spots as starters or in a rotation.

How good would the offense be without Schaub, Andre, Walters, Slaton, Winston, and Daniels? Not very good.

I agree with much of what you're saying. However, I wouldn't count on our 6 best defenders being on the field at 100% this season. It's football and that rarely happens. If you look at last season's elite defenses, they each had to overcome plenty of injury issues:

1. Tennessee- KVB missed a ton of time and was hampered by a groin. Haynesworth had a knee and a bad hammy.

2. Baltimore- had a ton of CB injuries and Ed Reed was hobbled for the first 1/2 of the season.

3. NE- Rodney Harrison destroyed his knee. Seymour had injuries as well.


While we need to add some talent to the defense, I agree that talent isn't what has held it back. I'm very excited to see how the new coaching affects it and I expect a dramatic difference. My guess is that the defense will struggle by giving up some big plays early in the season but I think we can count on the defense making a lot more plays all season.

Regarding the draft, if only one thing is accomplished in the draft, it clearly better be that we improve the talent and depth at the RB position. We can't have the entire season dependant upon the health of a 205lb, 2nd year RB.

 

[Lucky]

So where did you get those stats?, because I can name 4, 4th rounds RBs off the top of my head and I really don't think I'm that good to nail the only 4 since 2000.

Rudi Johnson
Mike Anderson
Domanick Davis
and
Brandon Jacobs...

I'm also extremely curious to see the ones that barely miss the cut like Marion Barber, another 4th rounder...

Youn can sort through lists of drafted RBs, at pro football reference. Actually, it's only 3 from the 4th round. I mistakenly included Barber. Mike Anderson was a 6th Round pick.

My point is, do you think any of those teams drafted these backs late and said, "OK, we're set at RB". Most of these guys were taken as BPA. Davis was drafted to be a 3rd down back and returner. Again, if a team goes into a draft with the expectation of finding a RB that will have to produce immediately, they're not likely to find the back in the later portions of the draft. The number of RBs drafted in rounds 4-7 that produce anything as a rookie are much smaller.

 

[Goatcheese]

I agree with much of what you're saying. However, I wouldn't count on our 6 best defenders being on the field at 100% this season. It's football and that rarely happens. If you look at last season's elite defenses, they each had to overcome plenty of injury issues:

1. Tennessee- KVB missed a ton of time and was hampered by a groin. Haynesworth had a knee and a bad hammy.

2. Baltimore- had a ton of CB injuries and Ed Reed was hobbled for the first 1/2 of the season.

3. NE- Rodney Harrison destroyed his knee. Seymour had injuries as well.


While we need to add some talent to the defense, I agree that talent isn't what has held it back. I'm very excited to see how the new coaching affects it and I expect a dramatic difference. My guess is that the defense will struggle by giving up some big plays early in the season but I think we can count on the defense making a lot more plays all season.

Regarding the draft, if only one thing is accomplished in the draft, it clearly better be that we improve the talent and depth at the RB position. We can't have the entire season dependent upon the health of a 205lb, 2nd year RB.

True, but do we need to draft a first rounder to be depth, and never see the field unless the starter goes down?

A first round pick needs to either be a starter, or at least a guy who gets a lot of playing time. Like a nickle corner who could be a future #1, RB who gets 1/3-1/2 of the carries, or a dominating pass rushing DE who comes in 20-30 snaps a game.

I only see a few defenders who fit in that description and might be available for us to pick. Jenkins, Alphonso Smith, Maybin, and maybe if we're feeling spunky Michael Johnson.

The only linebacker I could make an argument for would be Laurinaitis. He's produced at a high level for a long time without question. I'm not convinced that Cushing or Mathews are appreciably better than Diles and Adibi. Drafting one of them would be like drafting Sanchez just incase Schaub goes down. Most people would laugh at that idea, but they're advocating the same thing for our linebackers.

 

[TimeKiller]

The only linebacker I could make an argument for would be Laurinaitis. He's produced at a high level for a long time without question. I'm not convinced that Cushing or Mathews are appreciably better than Diles and Adibi. Drafting one of them would be like drafting Sanchez just incase Schaub goes down. Most people would laugh at that idea, but they're advocating the same thing for our linebackers.

MMM....except that Schaub has proven to be an NFL caliber starter and then some. He just hasn't proven durability. Adibi nor Diles have that. Sanchez wouldn't start, Cushing, Matthews, and Laraunitis would all start somewhere on our D

 

[Polo]

I'm not sold on one single defensive player from this draft coming in and starting for us.

Besides that, I don't see LB as one of our major needs. I'd be perfectly fine with adding a 3rd round LB and a FA (maybe Cato June) to the group we currently have and rolling with that.

Our DB's are much worse off IMHO. We don't have much at either safety position, and all of our corners have something suspect about their games. I think at this point I'd rather get a really good interior O-lineman in the 1st before we go OLB.

 

[Polo]

Youn can sort through lists of drafted RBs, at pro football reference. Actually, it's only 3 from the 4th round. I mistakenly included Barber. Mike Anderson was a 6th Round pick.

My point is, do you think any of those teams drafted these backs late and said, "OK, we're set at RB". Most of these guys were taken as BPA. Davis was drafted to be a 3rd down back and returner. Again, if a team goes into a draft with the expectation of finding a RB that will have to produce immediately, they're not likely to find the back in the later portions of the draft. The number of RBs drafted in rounds 4-7 that produce anything as a rookie are much smaller.

Good post

 

[beerlover]

How is Moreno going to be the best player available at #15 when he isn't expected to be taken off the board until the end of the first round and Wells might be there at 15?

who says he isn't expected to be taken off the board until the end of 1st rd?

general consensus suggests he is a Top 10 prospect in this draft, its a function of team needs more than anything if he is still available when it's Texans turn @ the podium. other than Adrian Peterson or Reggie Bush at least to me he is the highest rated RB to come out of College in years. He is a special player. A younger stronger version of Clinton Portis

 

[HOU-TEX]

I hope the Texans find a way to trade down.

And then take a CB and an OLB with their first and second round picks, and a RB in the third.

This would be my perfect scenerio as well.

If there was a chance in heck we take a RB in the 1st, I'd want Moreno.

*Sigh* I wish the draft would hurry up and get here.

 

[Blake]

Every year, so far without exception, there has been a large group of fans who want to use the Texan's first round pick on an offensive skill player. Regardless of the teams other needs, every year. That obviously includes this year, as proven by this thread.

I agree overall with your statement here. But I still think the Texans should take their BPA when the #15 pick comes up regardless off what side of the ball they are on.

Was David Carr really ranked higher than Julius Peppers on the Texans draft board, or did they lock themselves into needing an offensive player?

Was Travis Johnson + a 3rd rounder higher on their draft board than Jammal Brown or did they want a defensive lineman so bad that they ignored BPA from the equation?

I would rather them take a running back that they feel is worth the 15th pick even in a ZB scheme rather than reach for a linebacker that they feel is worth a late round 1 selection.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Oh BTW here's what Kubiak said on what he expects next year if Houston gets that other runner...


http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-8-137/Big-back-possibilities-for-the-Texans.html

So assuming Slaton is the "lead back", which I think is fair to assume....Kubiak expects around 20 touches a game (carries and catches).

Do you know what Slaton's average "touches" were last season?... He only averaged 19.9 touches per game, so Kubiak was already protecting him.

Now lets look at another small quick back who ran in the two "tag team" back system... Chris Johnson, guess what his average "touches" were last season?.... 19.6, right there with Slaton even though he had another "pounder/starting caliber" back with him to take carries.

I think it's pretty obvious Kubiak already had a "touch" count on Slaton and was trying to protect him last season. Just because we pick up another back, it doesn't mean Slaton is going to get less carries....it just means we're going to run the ball more, which is something Kubiak has always preached and said he wanted to do since he's gotten here.....he just hasn't had the backs to do it.

Kubiak's "perfect scenario" :

Kubiak said in a perfect world, the lead back would get 22 touches, the second guy about 10 or 12.

would imply a total of 32 to 34 touches per game. Only four 2008 NFL teams put up those numbers..........Patriots (32.1), Vikings (32.4), Falcons (35) and Ravens (37). The Texans put up 27.0 touches per game. That would say to me that Slaton was stuck with carrying all but 7 of the remaining carries per game............and instead of having help from that much needed "complimentary bruising back," he was in there bruising his own back against stacked up defenses..............again, I repeat that if he is called on to take on last year's responsibilities "alone," he will be in this league "N__F__L."

 

[beerlover]

waiting for the Clinton Portis wasn't selected until the 2nd rd. comeback but haven't we rehashed that angle repeatedly over the years post 2002 "the Texans should have selected him" threads? he turned out to be a steal & the Texans (old Charlie Casserly regime) passed. teams thought they could address RB later then too I guess, of course in Portis case he played @ Miami & could have been overshadowed by all their great talent, then he refused to workout @ the combine & took poor advise from his agent not to promote his image. there is no doubt today that he was worth a high 1st rd. pick, just check out that 2002 draft starting with the Texans selecting David Carr-

1 David Carr Texans QB Fresno State
2 Julius Peppers Panthers DE North Carolina
3 Joey Harrington Lions QB Oregon
4 Mike Williams Bills T Texas
5 Quentin Jammer Chargers DB Texas
6 Ryan Sims Chiefs DT North Carolina
7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings T Miami (FL)
8 Roy Williams Cowboys DB Oklahoma
9 John Henderson Jaguars DT Tennessee
10 Levi Jones Bengals T Arizona State
11 Dwight Freeney Colts DE Syracuse
12 Wendell Bryant Cardinals DT Wisconsin
13 Donte Stallworth Saints WR Tennessee
14 Jeremy Shockey Giants TE Miami (FL)
15 Albert Haynesworth Titans DT Tennessee
16 William Green Browns RB Boston College
17 Phillip Buchanon Raiders DB Miami (FL)
18 T.J. Duckett Falcons RB Michigan State
19 Ashley Lelie Broncos WR Hawaii
20 Javon Walker Packers WR Florida State
21 Dan Graham Patriots TE Colorado
22 Bryan Thomas Jets DE Alabama-Birmingham
23 Napoleon Harris Raiders LB Northwestern
24 Ed Reed Ravens DB Miami (FL)
25 Charles Grant Saints DE Georgia
26 Lito Sheppard Eagles DB Florida
27 Mike Rumph 49ers DB Miami (FL)
28 Jerramy Stevens Seahawks TE Washington
29 Marc Colombo Bears T Boston College
30 Kendall Simmons Steelers G Auburn
31 Robert Thomas Rams LB UCLA
32 Patrick Ramsey Redskins QB Tulane

highlighted 15 players who busted or dissapointed while Portis is

Regarded as one of the NFL’s most talented running backs this decade, Clinton Portis has rushed for 9,202 career yards and 72 rushing touchdowns in his seven NFL seasons. He totaled over 1,000 yards rushing in a single season for the sixth time in his career (fourth time with the Redskins) in 2008. Portis had a season-best 175 yards on 27 carries and one TD vs. Cleveland (10/19) last year. Entering the 2009 season, he ranks second all-time in club history in rushing yards (6,103). Portis's list of accomplishments include being named the 2002 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year and selected to the 2003 and 2008 Pro Bowls.

Moreno is all that & more. if the Texans select him Schaub would have as talented backfied as any in the National Football League & automatically addressing depth @ must have position representing commitment to establishing the running game to balance play action in passing attack.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Kubiak's "perfect scenario" :



would imply a total of 32 to 34 touches per game. Only the top two 2008 NFL rushing teams put up those numbers..........#1 Vikings (34) and the #2 Giants (32). The Texans put up 24.5 touches per game. That would say to me that Slaton was stuck with carrying all but less than 5 of the remaining carries per game............and instead of having help from that much needed "complimentary bruising back," he was in there bruising his own back against stacked up defenses..............again, I repeat that if he is called on to take on last year's responsibilities "alone," he will be in this league "N__F__L."

When Denver had two quality runners they had no problem putting up those kinda rushing stats (they were like a top 5 rushing team for 5 or 6 years straight)......so while it's the "perfect scenario" if Kubiak gets that other "starting caliber back" that everyone wants him to get, he (and Gibbs) isn't going to have a problem reaching that "perfect scenario" and Slaton is still going to get his "19.9" touches a game. I don't see where getting this other back saves him from the touches he received last year, since Kubiak saved him last year from a large amount of touches, except for the fact that he won't handle as many goal line/short situation touches.

 

[Polo]

When Denver had two quality runners they had no problem putting up those kinda rushing stats (they were like a top 5 rushing team for 5 or 6 years straight)......so while it's the "perfect scenario" if Kubiak gets that other "starting caliber back" that everyone wants him to get, he (and Gibbs) isn't going to have a problem reaching that "perfect scenario" and Slaton is still going to get his "19.9" touches a game. I don't see where getting this other back saves him from the touches he received last year, since Kubiak saved him last year from a large amount of touches, except for the fact that he won't handle as many goal line/short situation touches.

Are you really arguing that adding another quality RB wouldn't help keep Slaton healthier/fresh ?

 

[Carr Bombed]

Are you really arguing that adding another quality RB wouldn't help keep Slaton healthier/fresh ?

No I'm arguing he's still going to get his "touches" and I even provided a example of how another back very similar to Slaton got his touches even when running with another runner (and Fisher has come out and said he wants to even expand CJ's role in the offense). Plus Kubiak even said with another back he's still going to get those touches. People are just choosing to ignore it.

The guy didn't get used as much as people are trying to make out, Kubiak protected him last season. Everybody is afraid he's going to be like D.D., but Davis already suffered from knee injuries in college.....he was already damaged goods and his knees were ticking time bombs when he got here. Slaton has a uncanny ability to make people miss and rarely takes a flush hit, that's how he stayed healthy last season....that and luck, which every player needs.

 

[Texecutioner]

waiting for the Clinton Portis wasn't selected until the 2nd rd. comeback but haven't we rehashed that angle repeatedly over the years post 2002 "the Texans should have selected him" threads? he turned out to be a steal & the Texans (old Charlie Casserly regime) passed. teams thought they could address RB later then too I guess, of course in Portis case he played @ Miami & could have been overshadowed by all their great talent, then he refused to workout @ the combine & took poor advise from his agent not to promote his image. there is no doubt today that he was worth a high 1st rd. pick, just check out that 2002 draft starting with the Texans selecting David Carr-



highlighted 15 players who busted or dissapointed while Portis is

Moreno is all that & more. if the Texans select him Schaub would have as talented backfied as any in the National Football League & automatically addressing depth @ must have position representing commitment to establishing the running game to balance play action in passing attack.

I like Moreno better than any RB since Adrian Peterson. Moreno is going to be a big time RB for a lot of years. Him and Slaton would automatically become the best duo in the league for sure. And I'm pretty sure that Moreno will be better than Slaton in the long run as well. With those two backs, you almost wouldn't know who to give the most carries to.

I would rather have Wells though, because Wells is that bigger stronger back that would be great for the Red Zone and short yardage plays while Slaton would be the nice burner and HR hitter.

 

[badboy]

I am telling ya Mike Goodson...second round

You sound like an Aggie backer. Goodson is maybe a 4th, probably a 5th. His per carry avg dropped last season from 6.7 to 4.7 per Walters. He is fast but not much history of being effective.

 

[Polo]

The guy didn't get used as much as people are trying to make out, Kubiak protected him last season.

It's not how often Slaton was used for me, it is 'the way he was used'. I don't want Slaton to be our pounder. I don't want him carrying the ball a bunch of times in a row. I'd rather more his 'touches' come in space rather than mostly running him up the gut. Screens, Flare outs, outside zone stuff...ect...

If you are not arguing that adding another back will keep him healthier then we have no issue.

 

[badboy]

Laurinitis in the 3rd round?

Dude.

Not.

Gonna.

Happen.

Check out Walters as the guy is slipping. I don't have him near my board but he is a projected 2-3 round. If he is there at 3rd and strange things can happen, I gotta go for him.
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009ILB.php
Probably like Raji, Orakpo being there @ 15.

 

[badboy]

IMO, if the Texans aren't able to grab Rashad Jennings or if they don't draft a RB in the 1st Round (Which I don't think they will) I suggest Herb Donaldson from Western Illinois.

I know Western Illinois is a small program but Herb Donaldson packs a powerfull punch and has the size we need in a RB (5'11" 225-Lbs) not to mention he runs a 4.60 40-Yard Dash and can also ctach as well as block in the backfield.

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3n26z6Zr98

http://www.wiuathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=4963&DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=631513

Donald is ranked #23 RB as a 7th round to FA. He can show up as a FA to look at.

 

[HOU-TEX]

It's not how often Slaton was used for me, it is 'the way he was used'. I don't want Slaton to be our pounder. I don't want him carrying the ball a bunch of times in a row. I'd rather more his 'touches' come in space rather than mostly running him up the gut. Screens, Flare outs, outside zone stuff...ect...

If you are not arguing that adding another back will keep him healthier then we have no issue.

I think everyone realizes we're in need of another quality RB. What round in the draft to make the RB pick is where the differing opinions arise. I think it will be the second day when we run a RB's name up to the podium.

 

[badboy]

Our offense was statistically successful last season. But do you remember how often Slaton was stopped dead at the line of scrimmage or for minus yardage. One thing the team can do to improve the running game, and save some hard knocks on our RB's, is to strengthen the middle of the line.

If Jonathan Luigs falls to us in the 3rd round, we shouldn't hesitate to take him.

I'd then take RB in the 4th and the one I have my eye on is Gatrell Johnson. Badboy, you have Johnson down for the 6th round. I wouldn't be certain he would stay on the board that long. I think he's a riser and I'm worried he may slip into the 3rd and not fall to us in the next round.

I currently have : 1st : Mathews; 2nd : CB Coye Francis; 3rd : Luigs and 4th : Johnson.

With our free agent signings, this addresses everyone of our needs except safety.

Hmm, teams can stop our RB but we can't stop theirs. It is a quandry. Seems we need a big old NT to stop theirs and a strong RB with a bit of speed to score more. Our ground conversions in RZ for points wasn't very good. Yet, folks are wanting CBs, Lbs and safeties on 1st day. Hmmm.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

If you look at Kubiak's comments regarding the RBs as a whole, I think drafting one earlier than later could be warranted.

He discusses in a perfect world, the lead back would get 22 touches per game and the second guy 10-12. He also stated that he wants a RB that has the ability to go in and start some games. I don't necessarily think he's looking for a #2 runningback. I get the idea our RBs, hypothetically, would be a 1a and 1b. He wants both guys to have the ability to start and have the 22 touches per game. Keep in mind, touches refer to carries and receptions.

While I've been against a 1st round RB, this is a year I could actually see one taken. In my perfect world, we wouldn't... but I wouldn't throw a hissy fit if it happened. I don't think Slaton will be the 16 game starter with 22 touches per game. I think he and the new RB will both get their share of starts and touches. The depth chart is fluid and can change on a daily basis.

If one back is having a better week in practice while the other is struggling... said back will start. just my humble opinion. I'm still getting back to wanting to trade down and take the RB, LB or DB.

 

[Polo]

Right now I'm looking at:

1) Wells/Moreno

2) Laurinitis/Sean Smith/Alphonso Smith/Chung

3)Michael Hamlin/Gerald Mcrath

In bold would be my first choice, and then so on...

If this happened in any of the combinations I'd be really happy.

 

[Polo]

I think everyone realizes we're in need of another quality RB. What round in the draft to make the RB pick is where the differing opinions arise.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

If you know we need another "quality" RB why would you risk waiting until the later rounds to get one when you know that it's something you "need" ?

.

 

[HOU-TEX]

This doesn't make any sense to me.

If you know we need another "quality" RB why would you risk waiting until the later rounds to get one when you know that it's something you "need" ?

.

Bigger needs are on defense. Plus, a second day RB could easily come in to this system and produce right away versus the odds of a 2nd day defensive player coming in and producing at the same level.

 

[badboy]

If you look at Kubiak's comments regarding the RBs as a whole, I think drafting one earlier than later could be warranted.

He discusses in a perfect world, the lead back would get 22 touches per game and the second guy 10-12. He also stated that he wants a RB that has the ability to go in and start some games. I don't necessarily think he's looking for a #2 runningback. I get the idea our RBs, hypothetically, would be a 1a and 1b. He wants both guys to have the ability to start and have the 22 touches per game. Keep in mind, touches refer to carries and receptions.

While I've been against a 1st round RB, this is a year I could actually see one taken. In my perfect world, we wouldn't... but I wouldn't throw a hissy fit if it happened. I don't think Slaton will be the 16 game starter with 22 touches per game. I think he and the new RB will both get their share of starts and touches. The depth chart is fluid and can change on a daily basis.

If one back is having a better week in practice while the other is struggling... said back will start. just my humble opinion. I'm still getting back to wanting to trade down and take the RB, LB or DB.

I agree. Also, could see a heavier rotation of backs, depending on whom is on roster. Having a strong back that can block such as a Jennings or Gartrell Johnson and Slaton in back field same time is intriguing.

 

[Polo]

Plus, a second day RB could easily come in to this system and produce right away versus the odds of a 2nd day defensive player coming in and producing at the same level.

I don't think Kubiak, the Old Denver Coaching staff or any ZBS team really feels that way.

Why would Kubiak sign Ahman Green, Chris Brown and then take Slaton in the third if he felt like just any 'ol back from later rounds would do?

Why would ATL sign Michael Turner for all that money?

Why did Denver go after Travis Henry and take Portis in the 2nd?

No one is taking late round picks that they expect to play intergal roles with their teams on regular downs. If they happen to excede expectations, great.

I think that believing that late round RB's can just be plugged into this system is overrated. Especially in a year where there aren't a lot of of them that overly impress.

 

[Thorn]

Right now we have Chris Brown (worthless) Moats (untested) and Slaton on the official roster. If anything happens to Slaton, we are in deep do-do. I can see them taking a RB in the 2nd round. I still think the 1st round will be for a safety, CB, or LB though.

 

[beerlover]

this will mark Gary Kubiak's 4th draft w/Texans.

• 2006 drafted Wali Lundy 7th rd.
• 2007 did not address RB in draft
• 2008 drafted Steve Slaton in 3rd
• 2009 yet to be dertermined

doesn't take a NASA rocket scientist to figure out productivity rises directly proportional to talent

 

[El Tejano]

This guy agrees with you Polo

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/nfp-three-round-mock-draft/

I could in no way be upset with this kind of pick.

 

[El Tejano]

Last year when we took Slaton in the third we had Ahman Green, Chris Taylor, Darius Walker and Chris Brown. I don't think that their intention was to rely on Slaton who was a third round pick.

What you have said here may have more to it than you think. When was Chris Brown acquired? Before or after the draft?

If before, then that kind of gives a look at how the Texans draft. If they are putting alot of bodies at one position they can now go with the BPA in the later part of the draft at need positions. If this is true, you could see us drafting a DE or DT sometime in the 3rd or later.

If Chris Brown was acquired after the draft, that might show how they would get the best player on their board and add for need with what's left in FA.

 

[El Tejano]

We have the same running attack Denver used for years and they made big time contributors out of Terrell Davis (6th I think), Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson from Utah to name a few, and those three were taken in the 4th or later. QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, how long did it take for those guys to see the field?

 

[76Texan]

Right now we have Chris Brown (worthless) Moats (untested) and Slaton on the official roster. If anything happens to Slaton, we are in deep do-do. I can see them taking a RB in the 2nd round. I still think the 1st round will be for a safety, CB, or LB though.

Moats is a decent back. He doesn't have Slaton's speed, but he has a good initial burst (4.49-40). He's not a game breaker, but he's good enough to be as a 3rd RB.
The one knock is his fumbling problem. His last 2 years in college (Louisian Tech) he had 16 fumbles.
In 05 with the Eagles, he had 3 fumbles in 59 touches.
Since then he hasn't fumbled in 51 touches.

I'd rather have a RB in the third or later.
There should still be one or two of them available.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

How do you guys feel about Houston native and Texas alum Chris Ogbonnaya? Most likely a later round pick. I could see him as possibly taking Moats place (not that we're necessarily trying to replace him). Worth a shot or not?

6'0 ft 220 lbs.

 

[pbat488]

We have the same running attack Denver used for years and they made big time contributors out of Terrell Davis (6th I think), Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson from Utah to name a few, and those three were taken in the 4th or later.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take for those guys to see the field?

Well, I know TD was drafted in the 6th round and was like the 5th string back at the starting of training camp and ended up as the starter for the regular season. Mike Anderson was also a 6th or 7th rounder and became the starter his rookie year. Olandis was a mid-round pick and became a starter after TD started having knee problems in '99.

All 3 had big impacts their rookie year, and Anderson was ROY.

 

[Polo]

Hopefully we aren't banking on that to happen.

 

[76Texan]

How do you guys feel about Houston native and Texas alum Chris Ogbonnaya? Most likely a later round pick. I could see him as possibly taking Moats place (not that we're necessarily trying to replace him). Worth a shot or not?

6'0 ft 220 lbs.

I haven't seen enough of him, but I notice in one game he was tackle by the ankles a few times too easily.

Doesn't look to have the quickness to get to the hole quick enough for our offense.

But he looks good out of the backfield though.