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Richard Smith/Hoke/Franklin - fired!!!
- Thread starter DiehardChris
- Start date
A late christmas present is better than not at all.
This is long overdue, and hopefully we can bring in some tough, hardnose D like Will Muschamp did at Texas. I'm pretty sure that Taylor Mays wont fall to us in the draft, so we have to go DE with first pick. Now I am waiting on a present from the Astros, like a Jon Garland, or somebody. Guess i'll be waiting.
This is long overdue, and hopefully we can bring in some tough, hardnose D like Will Muschamp did at Texas. I'm pretty sure that Taylor Mays wont fall to us in the draft, so we have to go DE with first pick. Now I am waiting on a present from the Astros, like a Jon Garland, or somebody. Guess i'll be waiting.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I'm thinking that Okoye's lack of development might have been one of the triggers to Franklin getting fired. Makes you wonder just how good Mario is.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
free at last, free at last!
Great news! 
On the other hand he's got to be given a lot of credit for the development of Cochran, Bullman, & DelJuan. I can remember a Chron special where Bullman praised Franklin for all that he learned being coached by Franklin.
And all of these guys have my sympthathy and best wishs for landing on their feet as quickly as possible with another employment opportunity. This is after all agrim economy. Don't like to see anyone become unemplyed involuntarily.
Getting canned sucks real, real bad in several ways.
Yankee_In_TX
Dance Lindsay!
With the Texans struggle to develop a fanbase, my completely unkowing opinion is that they'd arrange for the extra tickets to be sold rather than allow blackouts.
As long as we bring in viable candidates for the DC position and don't "give it" to Bush, I'm happy as a clam about this!
Now we may finally get to see if it's the personnel or the system...I firmly believe that it's a bit of both, but I'll be giddy when our DBs aren't playing 12 yds off when it's 3rd & 8.
Now we may finally get to see if it's the personnel or the system...I firmly believe that it's a bit of both, but I'll be giddy when our DBs aren't playing 12 yds off when it's 3rd & 8.
hookinreds
Veteran
I'd say it's half the battle. HOLY CRAP, I FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT. GI Joe says "knowing is half the battle"...I guess actually following through with dumping the dead weight is the other half.
Ease some of the frustration on behalf of the fans...the Texans would sell out next year anyway, avoiding any blackouts.
noxiousdog
Rookie
We should know at 1:30. If they are promoting in house, you'd think they'd announce it then. Though, I suppose Bush could be the fall back plan if the other candidates are too expensive/don't want to be here.
Good observation though.
We should at least be interviewing from the outside first. At least I hope so.
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Are you talking about the DC for the New York Giants?
After checking the Giants website I see that you are. So with teams looking at him for a Head Coaching position you expect him to make a lateral move to the Texans while still under contract with the Giants?
OK I am sorry I am better now ...
Sorry but this is some funny stuff right here.
Maybe we could get Bill Cowher to coach the Defense.
mike moffat
All Pro
I'm tired of arm tackling and watching receivers eat us up. Good move.
The Texans did the right thing. Thank goodness.
Now, are we looking at Bush being promoted to DC? Does this really give us anything new or exciting? I'm not at all happy with the prospect of promoting from within when our defense was horrible in all facets of the game. I fear more of the same if we settle for an insider. I could be completely wrong though.
I wonder if that was the case, why wouldn't they make that announcement now? Seems to me Bush will get the job only if none of the other guys on their short list are interested/available.
michaelm
vox nihili
I agree with you, but I am hopeful that it only indicates that they are keeping Bush on board so he can be one candidate in the hiring process.
It would make sense to keep him on board and tell him he will have a fair shot along with whatever external candidates they interview. Maybe he's indicated which of the existing coaches he would retain if he won the job, so they kept them around for now.
grrr. Even as I type this, it reeks of wishful thinking.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Why in the world would Steve Spagnuolo go from DC of the NYG to DC of the Texans? Money? No chance. Spags will be a head coach in 2009... and even if money WOULD lure him away to stay a DC (which it never would) he would command as much or more money than Kubiak makes. Not going to happen. It has nothing to do with the Texans being cheap.
I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.
We'll know more in 30 minutes.
barrett
All Pro
I think we don't need to assume that Bush will take over. It makes sense that when evaluating coaches you would fire the ones that you know you don't want to keep and you don't fire the ones that performed well. If you bring in an outside DC then he has these guys to choose from in his quest to fill a staff. If he has guys he likes better, you dismiss these guys.
I don't think it says that they are for sure promoting Bush. Of course I could be proven wrong in 30 minutes. But it makes sense to keep them on at this stage. I am certainly a proponent of bringing in a DC that has a proven track record. Thus far Gregg Williams seems to be the best name I've heard come up on this board.
I'm excited that they moved swiftly to take advantange of all the coaching moves that will take place.
I don't think it says that they are for sure promoting Bush. Of course I could be proven wrong in 30 minutes. But it makes sense to keep them on at this stage. I am certainly a proponent of bringing in a DC that has a proven track record. Thus far Gregg Williams seems to be the best name I've heard come up on this board.
I'm excited that they moved swiftly to take advantange of all the coaching moves that will take place.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Why in the world would Steve Spagnuolo go from DC of the NYG to DC of the Texans? Money? No chance. Spags will be a head coach in 2009... and even if money WOULD lure him away to stay a DC (which it never would) he would command as much or more money than Kubiak makes. Not going to happen. It has nothing to do with the Texans being cheap.
I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.
We'll know more in 30 minutes.
Which position coach on the Giants has the most experiance with all aspects of defense, starting from the DLine Coach, to the linebackers (I don't really consider their secondary too good, more a byproduce of the front 7)
valleytexfan
Veteran
HAPPY FREAKIN' NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
Someone else on a previous page suggested that they could be keeping Bush as a backup option in case they don't get who they want as DC. Interesting theory.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I'm starting to wonder what Bush, Holland and Rhodes did that covinced Smith and Kubiak that they should keep their jobs.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
barrett
All Pro
certainly the worst move would have been to fire everybody and start over. it's not like there are good asst. coaches just laying around watching tv. it's hard to build a solid staff just like it is a roster. this was the smartest move. i just hope they don't give it to Bush with out playing the field.
barrett
All Pro
It's hard to say with Bush. As an asst. DC you don't really know what his role was. But with Holland it's easy to say that you saw success in Demeco and great potential in Diles and Adibi so something good is happening there. There technique seemed decent. Unlike the DB's who seemed to be coached poorly with bad angles and poor technique. Rhodes I think is a different situation, I think he brings experience as a HC DC and Asst. to a young staff and more importantly, a young HC in Kubiak. I think he is a confidant to Kubiak on how to be a successful HC on top of a proven defensive knowledge base.
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
Great stuff. What perfect timing with all the peeps that are available as well. The other great thing is that we are going to be up there in terms of demand imo. We have key talent pieces in place already and we are an up and coming team in a well run and respected organization. We should def. be up there with getting alot of serious interviews.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
I was one of the ones who thinks that - it's really the only thing that makes sense to me. They would have announced Bush immediately if he was the guy - but at the same time - DCs usually want to bring all their own guys in, so if they are going to get a guy like Williams or Marinelli - Bush and Holland still might not stick around. That would suck, because Holland does a great job IMO.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
That's cuz you smart. Maybe it will play out that way. Could be that they didn't announce Bush right away because they have to go through some official interview period? I'm not sure what the rules are anymore, especially with the effort to get minorities hired in NFL coaching positions.
I wonder what the timing on this all will be. Firing Smith is a relief, I'm just excited to see what the Texans do now.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I think it is more that they didn't do anything to affirmatively lose their jobs.
Smith's defense performed poorly for three years. And he had lost his players.
The Texans were Hoke's only NFL job.
IIRC, Jethro Franklin lost his job with Tampa Bay after the pass rushing stats for the team were really really terrible.
Holland is someone that the linebackers really really like. I understand it was Holland that fought to get DeMeco Ryans in 2006.
I am hoping that Bush is plan B if they can't get someone better.
As for Rhodes, he is an old hand.
I am guessing that they want to keep some guys for continuity and if the new guy doesn't like them for the position they are in, they will get reassigned like Bob Karmelowicz did.
Kubiak was very vague with Rhode's position with the team.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....
Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.
Bleh.
He needs an experienced DC. He just does.
Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.
Bleh.
He needs an experienced DC. He just does.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Yeah, he never really reveals... anything. Heh.
So just like a lot of us thought and hoped - Bush is going to be interviewed as a Plan B candidate.
I don't really want to celebrate a guy losing his job and income anymore - especially during the holidays... but I'll just say I'm glad they've moved on, and I'm glad Kubiak was able to break from his intensely loyal attitude toward these things.
It'll probably be a few weeks, but I'm happy to hear that Kubes is planning to talk to some very experienced, longtime NFL defensive people for this job.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Totally agree. We can NOT roll the dice on a boy genius on defense.
He did kind of contradict himself though - he said he wasn't concerned about a lot of experience, then he said he would be talking to a lot of guys who have coached in this league a lot of years.
With Kubiak and the media - I just assume he's revealing as little as possible so I'm not too concerned about what he said. I do think he wants an experienced guy.
michaelm
vox nihili
Pobably just leaving everything open ended and not eliminating possibilties right off the bat.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I just hope if Bush does get it everyone doesn't assume he was given the job. Never mind--totally unrealistic hope.
Bush--to compete for the job.
Holland--development of the LBs has been good with a 7th rounder and rookie playing well.
Rhodes--well respected mind. This year he worked the safeties and got Barber going as well as getting production from Wilson/Ferguson.
I don't see the reason to limit the coaching search to only guys with previous DC experience. Safer doesn't mean better.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I missed the press conference but what Barrett says pretty much sums up what I think will happen. We kept some assistant coaches who we believe did their jobs well and have some talent. We will search for a new DC and he can choose to keep or ditch any of them. Its a good move because it would be tough to bring in an entirely new defensive staff and good assistants are not easy to come by.
I wanted 9-7 for Christmas but this is a pretty sweet little consolation.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Let's all hope its not Bush as DC. But at least Joke err Hoke didn't get promoted into the job. That was my biggest fear.
I think its gonna be a total revamp though. We will know soon. Let's just hope McNair spares no expense in getting the best DC available. If he goes the cheap route AGAIN, I will be very disappointed.
I think its gonna be a total revamp though. We will know soon. Let's just hope McNair spares no expense in getting the best DC available. If he goes the cheap route AGAIN, I will be very disappointed.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
But if Holland's teaching of the LBs secured his job, why didn't the development of Mario, and Bulman, and D. Robinson secure Franklin's job?
Just bouncing stuff off the walls.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So tell us now, who are the only acceptable non-cheap options for the team who are available?
MannyFresh
El Capitan
I would say because teams who fired their coaches have no upside whatever and would take years to rebuild. The Texans have great upside with just a few minor pieces to have an elite D and Spagnuolo would solidify that even further and be even more attractive to whatever free agents out there looking for a team with great potential. If they have a mediocre season again, guess what, Spagnuolo has his head coaching gig, if they have an awesome season, then its a win/win situation for the Texans and Spagnuolo. Besides, last I checked every coach has a price.Why in the world would Steve Spagnuolo go from DC of the NYG to DC of the Texans? Money? No chance. Spags will be a head coach in 2009... and even if money WOULD lure him away to stay a DC (which it never would) he would command as much or more money than Kubiak makes. Not going to happen. It has nothing to do with the Texans being cheap.
I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.
We'll know more in 30 minutes.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
It would be a mistake to immediately limit your options to experienced coordinators I believe. A guy like Sean McDermott out of Philly could be the next Spagnuolo. On the other hand there will be a lot of talented former DCs available so if we decide to go with an unproven option the competition will be extremely stiff and he will have to really stand out in interviews etc. Either way we are going to see some serious changes on D next year and I am so pumped about it.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Yes - but he'd make more than the head coach. That's never going to happen. I mean, I like Kubes and I want him to stay as coach - but at this point he certainly doesn't deserve a raise or an extension. You can't have a DC making more money than the HC!
There's a better chance of Haynesworth and Asomugha starting for the Texans next year - and the chances of that are already less than zero.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I don't know Icak. Just someone who isn't one of Kubiak's Denver cronies would be a start. Denver isn't exactly a hotbed of defensive coaching. Gregg Williams, Mangini, Romeo, or maybe a longshot in Wade Phillips (if/when fired). Those guys have shown they can do it and were so adept at being a DC they got hired as Head Coaches (unlike RS who had shown nothing and was probably the 5th name on their initial list in 06). Give me someone who has a track record and has had success. Not asking for much.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.
Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.
Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.
Brando
Hall of Fame
I'm happy......
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And Marinelli has never called a D.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
The whole presser was strange to me. Kubes had to talk about how good of coaches/guys the guys were but answer to what caused them to lose their job. Awkward. Basically they should just allow his to step up, say the job wasn't getting done and walk off.