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Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

4th round and I am bouncing from my recliner in between Texans picks and the end of the sofa closest to the TV. Andre Brown strong, solid and fast remains available and we get a CB listed as #25 on Walters (one place behind our 6th round CB). What! Oh, no. I'm groaning and rolling around on the carpet. Stood up and threw my pages of notes across the room and walked outside. Minutes later & I'm back on end of sofa praying come on please. 4B can be Brown. We select a TE? What? Brown is selected by Giants a few spots later. Anyway,it is not even the 5th round and we can still get Rashad Jennings. Right? At least they got the TE out of their system in 4th.

It is now Tuesday and I've calmed or tried to calm. I remember another Texans draft not too long ago with similar feelings by yours truly. I wanted a LT and we drafted some LB named Demeco Ryans to be one of the outside guys. What? Who? Man, crow tastes just like chicken!
 
I kept hoping for Jennings in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds.

Shows what I know.

I would much rather them pick guys that have potential to make a contribution, than to "fill a spot" of need. I'm glad they didn't take Wali Lundy 2.0 in the sixth or seventh round.

I think they went the right route with the UDFA picks.

I have no problems with any of the picks.
 
The only change I would make would be Brown at 112.

I would sign Chris Baker as an UDFA. Hopefully that would help light a fire under Okam.

Which probably will not happen. (Fire under Okam-Baker signing)

I think we had a great draft.
 
I'm curious what you like so much about Quin. I don't know much about him.


He's big, fast, strong, aggressive, likes to hit, good coverage skills, smart, heady player, plays the ball, knocks peoples heads off... did I mention that he was selected in the 4th round? K-Toro pointed out that he's had some injury issues but he played through them and was a captain if I'm not mistaken. He's got the athletic ability of Molden, the coverage ability of Reeves and the aggressive hitting qualities of Dunta. He's a cornerback to a T. Did I mention we got him in the 4th round? He was a captian on his team. Smart, well adjusted team player, team leader. Oh yeah, we got him in the 4th too.

I think he and Caldwell will prove to be the best value's we got this year. Write it down.
 
I like the picks overall, especially Barwin & Caldwell. We've done well in the past with later picks, so I'm on board with McCain & Nolan. I would have taken Oher in the 1st though.
 
I think he and Caldwell will prove to be the best value's we got this year. Write it down.


Considering the fact that I have Barwin being inducted into the Hall of Fame in about 2028, that says a lot about Caldwell. I was watching the NFL network's "Top 10 Drafts of All Time" show. Can you believe the Texans' '09 draft wasn't even mentioned? I was outraged! Once again, the national media is totally ignoring us, even when we do something great.
 
I'm indifferent with just about every pick besides Cushing and Caldwell. It's not that I completely hate the picks, it's just a "we'll have to wait and see" kind of ordeal.

Sums up my opinions exactly. Just add that I love the pickups of the two RB's as undrafted free agents.
 
Considering the fact that I have Barwin being inducted into the Hall of Fame in about 2028, that says a lot about Caldwell. I was watching the NFL network's "Top 10 Drafts of All Time" show. Can you believe the Texans' '09 draft wasn't even mentioned? I was outraged! Once again, the national media is totally ignoring us, even when we do something great.

someone slipped something in your coffee this morning mister
 
Considering the fact that I have Barwin being inducted into the Hall of Fame in about 2028, that says a lot about Caldwell. I was watching the NFL network's "Top 10 Drafts of All Time" show. Can you believe the Texans' '09 draft wasn't even mentioned? I was outraged! Once again, the national media is totally ignoring us, even when we do something great.

LOL. In a few years, you may be able to make a case for our 06 draft. Wouldn't that be great.
 
the FO didn't think gartrell was quick enough to be effective in our offense

John Mclaine (Take it for what its worth) said in his chat yesterday that Glen Coffee and Shon Greene were the only guys that they saw as a fit in their system that they were going to draft.

This is why they had no interest in Andre Brown or Rashad Jennings.
 
Considering the fact that I have Barwin being inducted into the Hall of Fame in about 2028, that says a lot about Caldwell. I was watching the NFL network's "Top 10 Drafts of All Time" show. Can you believe the Texans' '09 draft wasn't even mentioned? I was outraged! Once again, the national media is totally ignoring us, even when we do something great.


wait. i thought it was 2028 now? what are you? crazy?

it's never cool to say a first day pick is going to be great. you have to pick a 2nd day pick if you want to seem indie and insider football smart. dummy.
 
it's all speculation until we see what they can do on the field. "hold your peace" is kind of silly when we have no idea if these players can compete at the pro level just two days after the draft. And i seriously doubt anyone on a message board could even "hold their peace" to begin with.
lol
 
I'm pretty much on-board with the first 5 rounds. Don't know about the other two.

I was wanting/expecting Rashad Jennings to be picked in every round after the 3rd. Now, I'm hoping I was wrong since he went to the Jags.

I think Anthony Hill is going to get a lot of playing time and he's going to play well.

I expect Caldwell to be the starter by the second quarter of the season.

I think Barwin is either going to lose some weight and end up as a Will OR he's going to gain some weight and take the RDE spot by the end of the season.

Oh, wait. This is supposed to be about objections.
 
If Barwin is the starting RDE by the end of the season then we made a mistake signing Smith...
 
It's all speculation until we see what they can do on the field. "Hold your peace" is kind of silly when we have no idea if these players can compete at the pro level just two days after the draft. And I seriously doubt anyone on a message board could even "hold their peace" to begin with.

I don't know, I get the feeling some board members may be pretty adept at holding their piece. Buh dum chish :tomato:
 
If Barwin is the starting RDE by the end of the season then we made a mistake signing Smith...

its not that big a deal, is it?
Smith can be traded or cut if need be.
Besides, I like the flexibility (and insurance against injury) that having both of them gives us.
 
its not that big a deal, is it?
Smith can be traded or cut if need be.
Besides, I like the flexibility (and insurance against injury) that having both of them gives us.

Not being a huge deal doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

And to me it would be a pretty big deal because in my mind that would officially mean we suck at signing FA's in the off-season and have no feel for how they will fit in in relation to our team.
 
Not being a huge deal doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

And to me it would be a pretty big deal because in my mind that would officially mean we suck at signing FA's in the off-season and have no feel for how they will fit in in relation to our team.

Personally, I think it's going to be reminiscent of the Weaver situation.

I think they signed Smith expecting to go another way in the draft but then with Barwin sitting there, they couldn't not take him. He was their highest rated guy. Like Rick Smith has said several times, they were just "working the process."

Pretty similar to signing Weaver and then drafting Mario for pretty much the same spot. Weaver never really recovered.
 
Personally, I think it's going to be reminiscent of the Weaver situation.

I think they signed Smith expecting to go another way in the draft but then with Barwin sitting there, they couldn't not take him. He was their highest rated guy. Like Rick Smith has said several times, they were just "working the process."

Pretty similar to signing Weaver and then drafting Mario for pretty much the same spot. Weaver never really recovered.

Honestly, I hope you're wrong...

If you're right then that means Mario would most likely have to switch sides and once again our biggest FA aquisition would be a FAIL.
 
Honestly, I hope you're wrong...

If you're right then that means Mario would most likely have to switch sides and once again our biggest FA aquisition would be a FAIL.

As long as our defense improves by leaps and bounds, I don't mind if the FA acquisition is a massive, EPIC FAIL.

I'm just worried about the end result in this case.
 
Not being a huge deal doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

And to me it would be a pretty big deal because in my mind that would officially mean we suck at signing FA's in the off-season and have no feel for how they will fit in in relation to our team.

If the A. Smith signing fails Bobby Greir should be fired.

No wait Bobby Greir should've already been fired.

How Greir has a job after looking at his FA pickups dumb founds me.

Greir must have pictures of Uncle BoB and Smithiak.
 
I know the Texans have more knowledge of the draft then I do. I have no problems with their draft this year. Here's what I would have done with the picks, though.


Brian Cushing at 15. I like Cushing. I had him coming to Houston in half of the mock drafts I did.

Sean Smith at 46. I like the Barwin pick, but I like Smith more

Antoine Caldwell at 77. I like the Caldwell pick, he brings depth to the Texans line.

D.J. Moore at 112. I know next to nothing about Glover, and Moore was rated as a 2nd round pick coming into the draft.

Andre Brown at 122. I like that Hill is a blocking TE, but I like Brown more at this point in the draft. The Texans need RB depth, and I think Brown fits their scheme.

James Casey at 152. I like Casey at this spot. I think he's good value in the fifth.

Brice McCain at 188. Don't know too much about him, but he's a sixth round pick

Michael Bennett at 223. After picking Smith, I would have gone best DE available here. Nick Reed was the next one drafted, but I don't know anything about him. Bennett went undrafted, but I think he would have been a good 7th round pick.

At least your criticism is logical. And not sour grapes over not getting your way.

I kept expecting them to draft a RB after the second and through the sixth rounds....didn't happen. They brought in two TE's instead...They love Casey....a lot more than I love Casey...but if he allows them to save spots on the final roster n September...he was more than worth the fifth.

Barwin may well fail.....but every coach at every level who has asked him to step up his game he has not only done it. He has done it very well.That coupled with his physical numbers....gives the odds of him making it to the Texans. Third year, this is the year to take a chance on the guy. We ain't going any where unless we can get the QBs in the AFC south down and on the ground...often.

Last two guys....special teams guys. Bryce wants a roster spot...he'll learn to run with the gunners on the other teams punt squad and mow then down like bowling pins. If he can do that they will pay the man and pay him very well.

One last thought(s)....and I am bewildered at some of the picks as others....K2 just robbed a bank. Owen Daniels is due to get paid. What is a TE worth ? In our offense...a lot. If Owen goes down how do you make up the production ? To some safe was drafting a DB high. To me, that did nothing to advance the teams chances at winning the AFC south. The in-line TE and the jack of all trades Casey tells me to Kubiak and Smith, stalling at the goal line is unacceptable. And as good as the FG kicker was....nothing was more important in this draft than elevating the TD production and the sack total. If you wanna call those two things a reach...be my guest.
 
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At least your criticism is logical. And not sour grapes over not getting your way.

I kept expecting them to draft a RB after the second and through the sixth rounds....didn't happen. They brought in two TE's instead...They love Casey....a lot more than I love Casey...but if he allows them to save spots on the final roster n September...he was more than worth the fifth.


Barwin may well fail.....but every coach at every level who has asked him to step up his game he has not only done it. He has done it very well.That coupled with his physical numbers....gives the odds of him making it to the Texans. Third year, this is the year to take a chance on the guy. We ain't going any where unless we can get the QBs in the AFC south down and on the ground...often.

Last two guys....special teams guys. Bryce wants a roster spot...he'll learn to run with the gunners on the other teams punt squad and mow then down like bowling pins. If he can do that they will pay the man and pay him very well.

One last thought(s)....and I am bewildered at some of the picks as others....K2 just robbed a bank. Owen Daniels is due to get paid. What is a TE worth ? In our offense...a lot. If Owen goes down how do you make up the production ? To some safe was drafting a DB high. To me, that did nothing to advance the teams chances at winning the AFC south. The in-line TE and the jack of all trades Casey tells me to Kubiak and Smith, stalling at the goal line is unacceptable. And as good as the FG kicker was....nothing was more important in this draft than elevating the TD production and the sack total. If you wanna call those two things a reach...be my guest.

Why would I have sour grapes? I actually said I like the Texans draft. Do I dislike the Barwin pick? No, I actually like the selection. I just preferred Smith over him. It doesn't mean I don't like the pick, because I do.

I like the Casey pick. He might be the 3rd TE, but he could also be the Texans long snapper or #5 WR. I like his versatility. I feel like he was great value in the fifth, and he could possibly replace OD down the road.

Pay a special teamer well? I doubt they would pay him anymore then a 6th rounder is worth, unless he does something more then special teams. I do like Brice's speed.

Where did I call them a reach? I still had Casey down in the fifth as the Texans pick, and I said I like that Hill's a blocking TE. I said I would have picked Andre Brown there. Why? I knew more about him. I wanted him in the 3rd before the draft even started, Hill I didn't know much about. I'm glad the Texans know more about the draft then I do.
 
If Barwin is the starting RDE by the end of the season then we made a mistake signing Smith...

So, if Antonio Smith is a good player for us but Barwin quickly becomes a great player, then having Smith on the team is a mistake?

yeah, quality depth and versatility is something you want to avoid as a football team.
 
Well ... if Cushing and Barwin can play ... then our edges are fine . I hope Kollar can do wonders with the middle .

Picks I think that will contribute this year .

1. Cushing ... I think him going against Hill in camp will be fun . Have we ever had a big , physical , instinctive player who wants to be the best ?
2. Barwin ... at least on STs... hopefully gets some sacks .
3. Caldwell ... I expect him to play at some point .
4 . Hill ... called a third tackle ... can't beat that .
5. Casey ... at least on STs ... hopefully causes matchup problems on certain sets .

The guys picked in the 4th , 6th , and 7th .... I don't know who they are .
 
So, if Antonio Smith is a good player for us but Barwin quickly becomes a great player, then having Smith on the team is a mistake?

yeah, quality depth and versatility is something you want to avoid as a football team.

this is kinda where I am.
So what if Barwin eventually outshines Antonio Smith?? Now, hopefully, the DL rotation is that much stronger.
 
I am definitely good with 1, 2, 3 and 5. I don't know enough about the others in the later rounds to second guess those who get paid to do it. RB's appear to be a dime a dozen in the right system if they fit that system. Casey will do nicely in short yardage getting snaps from center, handing off to him, or receiving out of the backfield. Go Thor!
 
Honestly, I hope you're wrong...

If you're right then that means Mario would most likely have to switch sides and once again our biggest FA aquisition would be a FAIL.

I don't think we've made our best FA aquisition yet. That would be a running back to be determined at a later date.
I also think Mario can play anywhere Mario wants to. He can dominate either side given some help.
Perhaps Smith and Barwin can do just that. :texflag:
 
i just dont like the fact we took 2 TE's when we have a pro bowler TE

i know there depth but come on Two in the draft it could have been 1 in deaft and another in FA
 
i just dont like the fact we took 2 TE's when we have a pro bowler TE

i know there depth but come on Two in the draft it could have been 1 in deaft and another in FA
a few years ago (2004) everyone was shocked when New England used a 32nd overall pick on Ben Watson when they just selected Daniel Graham 2 years previous at the 21st overall pick. They ended up with a really awesome balanced attack that utilized both players but not before everyone complained about the logic in what they were doing right after that draft. It really worked well for them at the end of the day. I think I see Kubiak really getting into his playbook next season.
 
a few years ago (2004) everyone was shocked when New England used a 32nd overall pick on Ben Watson when they just selected Daniel Graham 2 years previous at the 21st overall pick. They ended up with a really awesome balanced attack that utilized both players but not before everyone complained about the logic in what they were doing right after that draft. It really worked well for them at the end of the day. I think I see Kubiak really getting into his playbook next season.

I'm looking forward to having an inline TE that has some agility. I think it will do a lot for our run game and short yardage offense. Bruener was just too stiff to get onto a LB or even run a simple route against a zone defense. So, I'm quite excited about Hill even though I was very impressed with Owen Daniels blocking last season.
 
I am a bit late, but wanted to give this some thought, before going on the record. It’s tough to make some of these calls, since the choice in one round would affect others. For example, I wanted an OL in round 1 or 2 (not both), but with none taken, I liked Caldwell in round 3. Also, there is a lot of hindsight available as far as who ended up in each round. In any case, here are my thoughts, by round:

1) Cushing was not a bad choice, given who was left (I wish Jenkins or Orakpo had fallen…). I’d have gone with Oher, myself, but I understand why they didn’t. More than that, though, I think the players picked in the 21-28 range (except the WR/RB) were just as good of options as Cushing. I know the rules of this thread were no trade-down, but I’d have taken a trade down into that range (even if not getting full “value” for the trade), and picked up one of those players: Oher, Mack, Wood, Matthews, Jerry, or even Davis. I would rather have one of them plus something else than Cushing alone.

2) Barwin has grown on me, but I still think he was not the best player or biggest need at this point. I’d have gone with Unger here. I don’t know how Unger will do for the Seahawks, but I think he would have been perfect in our system, and we missed a major opportunity there (I wouldn’t have expected him to last to this point; I’d even have been willing to take him in round 1 after a trade-down!). If not Unger, I think William Moore would have been a good option, and made more of a difference for us.

3) Given who we had already taken, I like the choice of Caldwell. This was where I was hoping we’d get a RB, but the way things fell out, it didn’t work. I’m glad we didn’t reach for one, and I’d have been upset at the time if we had traded up to get Coffee, but given the way the whole draft played out, maybe a trade-up wouldn’t have been a bad idea. If we’d picked up an OL (and not a DB) in an earlier round, I’d have taken Rashad Johnson here instead.

4a) Again, depends on who we had taken earlier, and this is where my knowledge of the players is falling off. If we had not taken Barwin in round 2, maybe Brandon Williams would have been a good option here (overall, I like the sound of Max Unger, Rashad Johnson, and Brandon Williams more than Connor Barwin, Antoine Caldwell, and Glover Quin). Getting help in the secondary seems worthwhile, but I don’t know that Quin was worth choosing at this place.

4b) In retrospect, I would have taken Gartrell Johnson here, although at the time I thought he would last until round 5 (and might have been upset if they had “reached” for him). I was probably one of the only people that was hoping we would draft a blocking TE, but I didn’t figure we’d get him in round 4 (I was thinking round 6-7). I like Hill fine, but I probably wouldn’t have chosen that position that early. I would have probably picked for need here, depending on which of the defensive positions (OLB, pass rushing DE, Safety, DT) we didn’t address earlier – I don’t have a specific name, though.

5) I like the Casey pick. It feels like a luxury, but seems like a good risk at this point.

6,7) I don’t like to second-guess late round picks, since I know little about the players, and trust the ones they picked are ones they’ve seen something in, that I wouldn’t have known about.

I’m disappointed that they did not come away with an RB, but after seeing the way things played out, I can’t fault their choices at the times (the better RBs seemed to go earlier than I had expected). I don’t think of the players in rounds 6 and 7 as much different from UDFAs, so I’m not upset that we didn’t pick a RB then.
 
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