Your "ask the coaches" opportunity

[Lucky]

To be fair I wasn't high on TB last yr and last yr is a good representation of what I think TB will become. OK not great.

To be honest, you liked Brett Smith (CFL/Arena league) last year. Not saying that you don't know what to look for in a college QB. Just that everyone makes mistakes evaluating. And you may have made two. I'm pretty sure the Vikings are ecstatic with what Bridgewater has done thus far.

 

[Lucky]

The other is a rookie QB in his first year who will make mistakes.

Nor had Arian Foster, DeAndre Hopkins, and Andre Johnson at his disposal.

 

[ObsiWan]

Nor had Arian Foster, DeAndre Hopkins, and Andre Johnson at his disposal.

Our problem is, and, admittedly, this may be only my perception, our HC has an aversion to starting young, inexperienced QBs. I can't think of any other reason Mallett didn't start sooner than the tenth game of the season even though Mallett had been in his offense the longest.

 

[thunderkyss]

My questions would be along the lines of was there not enough conclusive evidence at the combine or pro day or any check up Clowney went through prior to the draft? Besides his lack of strong play the year prior and the not so ringing endorsement given by his HC... Did they just buy into the hype and thought he was worth the gamble?

I know you're asking the coaches & not me, but since everyone else threw in their 2 cents...

We've seen nothing yet that "proves" all the crap they were saying about Clowney before the draft. As far as I can tell, he's as hard a worker as anyone. He suffered from a few injuries that maybe the Texans should have foreseen... maybe not. The last injury, no one could have seen. & while we Texans fans myoptically look at NRG's field & our own players, there were two other players experience similar injuries last year on different fields. While Jd was trying to make a play, those other two guys were "celebrating"

It's just one of those freak things that happen.

Next I'd ask about why or what was their scouting on Bridgewater? It wouldn't have been a huge move up back into the first and would've been a smaller gamble than on Nix. Granted I think Teddy probably projects closer to Matt Ryan than anything, bit bottom of the first round on Matt Ryan? Most GMs would say yes.

I was among the more vociferous voices against drafting Bridgewater anywhere near the top 10... however, when he fell below 20 I kept waiting for the Texans to make a move. They never did.

Still, when the draft was through, I had no problem with what appeared to be the Texans MO. Dominate on the ground, dominate on defense & simply manage the game from the QB position.

With our schedule, I figured 8-10 wins if OB was worth a sht. So with 9 wins & only one game we had no chance of winning, I'm happy... more or less with what we have. If OB is right on Mallett (or Hoyer for that matter), I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

Bridgewater may be the next great QB of our time, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Granted only thing I can think is they had Mallet on their radar prior to draft and that's why they targeted things the way they did.

Speaking of Mallet... Why didn't they turn to him a lot quicker when it was beyond obvious that Fitz was struggling bad?

I never thought Fitz was struggling. I felt he was either holding himself back, or being held back. Either he was too timid to "push" or the coaches had no faith in him. That's why I was all, "Might as well start the rookie."

But when you're around .500 all year, it's not so easy to make a change. Had we started 0-3 like the Jags, or got three games under .500 at any time, I'm sure they would have made the switch sooner.

Still, I like that we got to see what OB could do with a "Fitzpatrick/Keenum" it gives me confidence that when we do find our franchise QB he won't end up looking like Sam Bradford or Matthew Stafford.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Our problem is, and, admittedly, this may be only my perception, our HC has an aversion to starting young, inexperienced QBs. I can't think of any other reason Mallett didn't start sooner than the tenth game of the season even though Mallett had been in his offense the longest.

I can.

Here's what I think happened.

1. OB was named HC and he wanted Mallett to be his QB.
(Around this time, Mallett posted his "Free at last" tweet that was later deleted.)

2. Our FO contacted the Patriots and the Patriots put a price on Mallett that was way higher than we were willing to pay.

3. So our FO (including OB) began looking for other options, with the plan on getting Mallett when he hit free agency in 2015.

4. At this point, OB figures our stop-gap QB was going to be Fitzpatrick. He probably told Fitzy that the job was his to lose.

5. The draft goes through with the Patriots expecting us to cave, especially after they draft Garoppolo, but we hold our ground.

6. We go through Training Camp and OB names Fitzy the starter.

7. The Patriots, seeing their opportunity closing, make the trade for Mallett.

8. At this point, OB has named Fitzy the QB and he doesn't want to look wishy-washy to the players. He wants them to feel like he keeps his word and if he immediately pulls Fitzy when we get Mallett, it doesn't send a good message.

So he had to have Fitzy play his way out of the job. He gave him until the bye.

That's what I think happened. I have no proof and no evidence. It's just my opinion.

 

[infantrycak]

I think that is close to correct.

 

[ObsiWan]

I can.

Here's what I think happened.

1. OB was named HC and he wanted Mallett to be his QB.
(Around this time, Mallett posted his "Free at last" tweet that was later deleted.)

2. Our FO contacted the Patriots and the Patriots put a price on Mallett that was way higher than we were willing to pay.

3. So our FO (including OB) began looking for other options, with the plan on getting Mallett when he hit free agency in 2015.

4. At this point, OB figures our stop-gap QB was going to be Fitzpatrick. He probably told Fitzy that the job was his to lose.

5. The draft goes through with the Patriots expecting us to cave, especially after they draft Garoppolo, but we hold our ground.

6. We go through Training Camp and OB names Fitzy the starter.

7. The Patriots, seeing their opportunity closing, make the trade for Mallett.

8. At this point, OB has named Fitzy the QB and he doesn't want to look wishy-washy to the players. He wants them to feel like he keeps his word and if he immediately pulls Fitzy when we get Mallett, it doesn't send a good message.

So he had to have Fitzy play his way out of the job. He gave him until the bye.

That's what I think happened. I have no proof and no evidence. It's just my opinion.

Why wait until the bye (in mid Nov.) when we'd dropped 3 in a row to start October?? It wasn't like Fitz was lighting it up out there.

 

[infantrycak]

Why wait until the bye (in mid Nov.) when we'd dropped 3 in a row to start October?? It wasn't like Fitz was lighting it up out there.

Lack of conviction - exactly what we are getting at.

 

[JB]

Lack of conviction - exactly what we are getting at.

Or perhaps he was being a man of his word... we just don't know

 

[ObsiWan]

Lack of conviction - exactly what we are getting at.

I think he wasn't ready to tie his future to Mallett. And apparently, given the signing of Hoyer, he's still hedging his bets.

I guess it boils down to this "Ask the Coaches" query: Why did you wait so long to trade for Mallett and why wait so long to start him?

 

[infantrycak]

Or perhaps he was being a man of his word... we just don't know

I can go with that as plausible. Unwise, but plausible.

But I'll stick with if he had conviction he would have reversed at that point.

Not for you, but none of this is a deal breaker for me and OB. My favorite HC and favorite QB went thru this. Bob Lilly had to go (at the team's urging) and tell Landry to start Staubach.

May we be so blessed in both regards.

 

[infantrycak]

I think he wasn't ready to tie his future to Mallett. And apparently, given the signing of Hoyer, he's still hedging his bets.

I guess it boils down to this "Ask the Coaches" query: Why did you wait so long to trade for Mallett and why wait so long to start him?

I feel like I'm stuttering but - lack of conviction.

He should have started Mallett earlier or Mallett shouldn't even be on the team at this point. These guys don't get paid millions to make the easy calls. They get paid to make the 1% calls. So far OB has abstained.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Why wait until the bye (in mid Nov.) when we'd dropped 3 in a row to start October?? It wasn't like Fitz was lighting it up out there.

OB was honoring his commitment. The "normal" time to make a change at QB is over the bye so OB gave Fitzy until then to show what he could do.

 

[JB]

OB was honoring his commitment. The "normal" time to make a change at QB is over the bye so OB gave Fitzy until then to show what he could do.

The bye week also gave Mallett a chance to work with the ones. Who knows, maybe he doesn't practice near as well as he looked in the Browns game. Perhaps he struggles with accuracy in practice and wasn't showing enough in practice to demand play time over Fitz.

All we can do here is guess and assume, and you know what assume means

 

[ObsiWan]

OB was honoring his commitment. The "normal" time to make a change at QB is over the bye so OB gave Fitzy until then to show what he could do.

I'm with Cak. Honoring my butt. He didn't have the nerve to make the move until the season was nearly shot.

either that or he knew Mallett wasn't (isn't?) all that.

 

[JB]

I'm with Cak. Honoring my butt. He didn't have the nerve to make the move until the season was nearly shot.

either that or he knew Mallett wasn't (isn't?) all that.

You can think that if it makes you happy. I'm taking a more optimistic viewpoint.


This season should tell us which it is.

Something I haven't seen mentioned and we all may be over looking, perhaps OB wanted Hoyer last year but Cleveland wasn't interested in dealing him or the price was way too high.

Maybe, just maybe Hoyer was OB's #1 choice all along

Gawd I hope not

 

[badboy]

You can think that if it makes you happy. I'm taking a more optimistic viewpoint.


This season should tell us which it is.

Something I haven't seen mentioned and we all may be over looking, perhaps OB wanted Hoyer last year but Cleveland wasn't interested in dealing him or the price was way too high.

Maybe, just maybe Hoyer was OB's #1 choice all along

Gawd I hope not

I just uncontrollably shuddered. Thanks a lot!

 

[badboy]

I'm with Cak. Honoring my butt. He didn't have the nerve to make the move until the season was nearly shot.

either that or he knew Mallett wasn't (isn't?) all that.

Questioning OB's nerve seems a bit odd to me.

 

[infantrycak]

Questioning OB's nerve seems a bit odd to me.

Does conviction or confidence suit you better?

 

[badboy]

Does conviction or confidence suit you better?

Saying OB does not have nerve indicates (to me at least) that he was concerned that he would get backlash from McNair for making a football decision and I don't think OB has to worry..this year. Conviction means he did not believe Mallett was ready. Confidence means he thought he was making correct decision but not sure he wanted to step out earlier and preferred to have more time to increase that confidence.

 

[infantrycak]

Saying OB does not have nerve indicates (to me at least) that he was concerned that he would get backlash from McNair for making a football decision and I don't think OB has to worry..this year. Conviction means he did not believe Mallett was ready. Confidence means he thought he was making correct decision but not sure he wanted to step out earlier and preferred to have more time to increase that confidence.

Wow, ok. For whatever reason (pick your appropriate term to suit your fill in the blanks need) he didn't nad up and take Mallett earlier or once obtained make him the starter earlier or this offseason move to make him the starter.

I personally think it is going to work out because I have confidence in Mallett. Not going to give OB credit for his lack of confidence if it works out.

 

[Nitrofish]

Come on Nitro. I know we can't remove the misnomer 6 TD game from Fitz, but it paints a way different picture. From that we can see pretty similar performance from a statistics standpoint.

The difference though is one is a journeyman QB who just got traded for a 7th round pick. The other is a rookie QB in his first year who will make mistakes. However, he showed to end the season he's grasped an NFL playbook and helped lead his team to three wins in the last 5 games of the season with the two loses by a combined total of... Two points. Keep in mind that's without a two thousand yard back he could've been able to hand the ball off to and a first year HC.

By all means though take Fitz as your guy.

The bolded is a fair point, and I admit I had forgotten about that. Having said that though, I was not saying I would take Fitz over TeddyB. In fact I said when he fell I was hoping they would move up and take him. Simply saying TeddyB did not wow anyone to warrant acting as if we missed on a diamond. The only one who really stood out IMHO last season was ODB.

What kind of numbers would TB have to put up to be considered a franchise QB? Last yr Bridgewater looked like a good prospect not a sure thing franchise QB. IMHO.

His career could go either way, the Brady way, (Both were gam managers as young QB's) or Sanchez (The type of QB that is a game manager who doesn't develop, either due to lack of work ethic or avg arm strength.)

To be fair I wasn't high on TB last yr and last yr is a good representation of what I think TB will become. OK not great.

This is where I am for now. But this season should be more enlightening and probably his 3rd to know for sure. But it's not like I watched his games and was upset we missed him.

Nor had Arian Foster, DeAndre Hopkins, and Andre Johnson at his disposal.

Another fine point, but he did have the most coveted rookie WR in the draft did he not? And Jennings was not much worse than Dre last season. Had 3 more TD's than Dre. McKinnon and Asiata where far from chop liver. They were not AP by any means, but together they were good for 1000 yds, and both dinged up all year. TeddyB did nothing with that talent, so not sure it would have made that much difference. This year however he will have a 2nd year Patterson, and they also added Mike Wallace so his situation has improved, or so it would seem. We shall see.

 

[badboy]

Wow, ok. For whatever reason (pick your appropriate term to suit your fill in the blanks need) he didn't nad up and take Mallett earlier or once obtained make him the starter earlier or this offseason move to make him the starter.

I personally think it is going to work out because I have confidence in Mallett. Not going to give OB credit for his lack of confidence if it works out.

You did it again by saying Coach did not have 'nads to make a decision and you have bupkis to base that on. Bring some proof or shut up. From day 1 OB has done things showing he has the nerve or nads to do what he wants. You seem butt hurt that he evidently did not agree with you that Mallett was better than Fitz earlier in schedule.

As the Eagles sang "Get over it!"

 

[infantrycak]

You did it again by saying Coach did not have 'nads to make a decision and you have bupkis to base that on. Bring some proof or shut up. From day 1 OB has done things showing he has the nerve or nads to do what he wants. You seem butt hurt that he evidently did not agree with you that Mallett was better than Fitz earlier in schedule.

As the Eagles sang "Get over it!"

Are you finally getting the point? Yes OB f £÷ked up not trading for and then again starting Mallett earlier. Are you reading impaired? I've been saying this since forever in the OB admin. (as opposed to you denying your Posey woodie).

Every action since OB got here says he doesn't have the same conviction.

 

[ObsiWan]

Saying OB does not have nerve indicates (to me at least) that he was concerned that he would get backlash from McNair for making a football decision and I don't think OB has to worry..this year. Conviction means he did not believe Mallett was ready. Confidence means he thought he was making correct decision but not sure he wanted to step out earlier and preferred to have more time to increase that confidence.

Oh I wasn't saying that O'Brien was scared for his job. It's actually closer to what you just said; O'Brien wasn't confident that Mallett was ready. So knowing Mallett had four years in practically the same system and yet O'Brien still wasn't (isn't) confident that he could do the job why bother to go get him? Why not draft a Bridgewater or Bortles and train him? Or why not stick with Fitz until this draft and grab someone he has his eye on??

But if O'Brien WAS confident in Mallett then why wait so long to start him? Why wait until after the draft to trade for him? Makes no sense to me.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Oh I wasn't saying that O'Brien was scared for his job. It's actually closer to what you just said; O'Brien wasn't confident that Mallett was ready. So knowing Mallett had four years in practically the same system and yet O'Brien still wasn't (isn't) confident that he could do the job why bother to go get him? Why not draft a Bridgewater or Bortles and train him? Or why not stick with Fitz until this draft and grab someone he has his eye on??

But if O'Brien WAS confident in Mallett then why wait so long to start him? Why wait until after the draft to trade for him? Makes no sense to me.

You're absolutely right. Your whole premise and your musings don't make sense.

And that's because you've thrown out what I said.

OB isn't in this for a single season. He's looking at this long-term and one of the most important things he needs is for the players, especially the vets, to get behind him and trust him and his word. If he gives his word to someone (like he did to Fitzy) and then immediately abandons the guy when a better option presents itself, then he's going to lose some points with the players.

 

[infantrycak]

You're absolutely right. Your whole premise and your musings don't make sense.

And that's because you've thrown out what I said.

OB isn't in this for a single season. He's looking at this long-term and one of the most important things he needs is for the players, especially the vets, to get behind him and trust him and his word. If he gives his word to someone (like he did to Fitzy) and then immediately abandons the guy when a better option presents itself, then he's going to lose some points with the players.

I get what you are saying...other than he promised Fitz. If he promised Fitz anything he"s a fool.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Maybe, just maybe Hoyer was OB's #1 choice all along

1) Yuck

2) Well then why is he fooling around with this "QB competition" ?


This is how I expect Rex Ryan to pick his QB's. Not a coach that is supposed to be a QB guy.

 

[ObsiWan]

You're absolutely right. Your whole premise and your musings don't make sense.

And that's because you've thrown out what I said.

OB isn't in this for a single season. He's looking at this long-term and one of the most important things he needs is for the players, especially the vets, to get behind him and trust him and his word. If he gives his word to someone (like he did to Fitzy) and then immediately abandons the guy when a better option presents itself, then he's going to lose some points with the players.

Well, one of the things O'Brien said was he would do whatever is best for the team. So which is best for the team: that he win a popularity contest or put the guy best equipped to help the team win??

And if I'm a vet and I see the better guy in practice not playing on Sunday because O'Brien promised him the starters job, my "faith" in him to do what's best to help us win just went down the toliet.

 

[steelbtexan]

Wow, ok. For whatever reason (pick your appropriate term to suit your fill in the blanks need) he didn't nad up and take Mallett earlier or once obtained make him the starter earlier or this offseason move to make him the starter.

I personally think it is going to work out because I have confidence in Mallett. Not going to give OB credit for his lack of confidence if it works out.

You're not going to give BOB credit for finding the QB of the future if Mallett works out to be a franchise QB, sad.

 

[thunderkyss]

You're absolutely right. Your whole premise and your musings don't make sense.

And that's because you've thrown out what I said.

OB isn't in this for a single season. He's looking at this long-term and one of the most important things he needs is for the players, especially the vets, to get behind him and trust him and his word. If he gives his word to someone (like he did to Fitzy) and then immediately abandons the guy when a better option presents itself, then he's going to lose some points with the players.

I don't necessarily think a promise to Fitz had anything to do with it. For three months he'd been installing Fitz as the starter. After not getting Mallett earlier through trade, he wasn't going to make a switch like that. Doesn't make sense to, he hadn't seen the kid for three years before.

I imagine he put Mallett through all the stuff he would have through camp, while he was here waiting for his chance to start. Training camp & the time Mallett was the back up is virtually the same.

OB needed Mallett to prove he was ready... it took time. Mallett obviously passed.

As far as Fitz is concerned, I'm not a fan, but he had not played his way out of the job. He wasn't so bad (like Henne) that we lost three in a row. I know, I know... we lot three in a row, but not because Fitz played so bad, more because he didn't play good enough (like the whole team didn't play good enough)...

& for all I know, OB didn't want the team to get into thinking Mallett was going to be some kind of savior. It's a team game & they all have to play well.

 

[Lucky]

You're not going to give BOB credit for finding the QB of the future if Mallett works out to be a franchise QB, sad.

Let's not get weird on this posts. If O'Brien wins, he gets credit for everything. No matter who is the QB. If he doesn't win, nothing he does at QB will save him. Obviously, finding a legit QB is a big part of the winning equation. And if O'Brien does win, everyone (cak included) will give Bill his props.

 

[Marshall]

Well, one of the things O'Brien said was he would do whatever is best for the team. So which is best for the team: that he win a popularity contest or put the guy best equipped to help the team win??

And if I'm a vet and I see the better guy in practice not playing on Sunday because O'Brien promised him the starters job, my "faith" in him to do what's best to help us win just went down the toliet.

That is an age old question. Is the team better than the sum of it's parts or not? If so, why? If not, why do all star teams struggle?

I lean toward teams being more than the sum of it's parts though it's difficult to quantify.