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Young's performance vs. USC = overrated

S

Sudds

Practice Squad
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
 
All the VY threads using the Rose Bowl too proclaim Excellence are pointless. Rose bowl just proved both these guys were good 41-38. Not 55-19.
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Yes both guys are great prospects, but I don't see the point of saying VY's Rose Bowl performance was overrated.
 
Sudds said:
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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You just heard all this Carr stuff on 610 like 20 min ago. Get original and come up with your own stuff. Unless you are Marc VanDermeer, then I understand, but if not, no need to re-tread what the 610 guys are saying, we all know just about as much as they do, if not more.
 
I don't think people should say that Vince's performance in the Rose Bowl was overrated because it was very impressive.

My only real problem isn't even with him, it is just I don't want to wait 2-3 years minimum for him to get to the level that David Carr is at right now. I'd rather win right now than wait a few years for someone who may or may not become the player people expect him to and a quarterback that turns out to be a bust is much more damaging to a team than a RB or WR that turns out to be a bust.
 
You just heard all this Carr stuff on 610 like 20 min ago. Get original and come up with your own stuff. Unless you are Marc VanDermeer, then I understand, but if not, no need to re-tread what the 610 guys are saying, we all know just about as much as they do, if not more.
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Next to the VY push up joke from a couple of days ago, I think this is the funniest thing I've seen on here.
 
I find this so funny and yet frustrating.. The excuses that people come up with against VY .. and Bush

IF you don't like VY.. it is say the defense of USC stinks and that is why he was able to do that.. maybe so.. but VY hasn't had just one game that he has been a difference maker, he has had 2 years(why don't we just take Bush's stats away from that fresno state game afterall that is what really made him the heisman winner right there)

Bush.. people that don't like Bush discredit him because USC's offense was loaded.. and just blew people away.. (namely the pac -10)


Where can we stop and just say these 2 guys did great at the college level? we can find faults with either guy all day long.


Bottom line is this..
VY knows how to win and makes his teammates around him better because they believed in him ..
Bush.. is a threat to go the distance anytime he touches the ball whether it is rushing or receiving. short distances , he won't be able to pound it in that is his weakness

end of story.
 
Sudds said:
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.
Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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few things, all that was said before the RB was how Vince wouldnt be able to operate against the "genius" Carroll with his super complicated schemes, and how with a month to prepare, Young would be shut down. Yet when Vince destroys all those schemes and picks up every blitz brilliantly, it was all about how bad usc's defense was.

second, Carr being the 6th qb to do that. sounds pretty Texas Techish to me. stats have system QB resembling TTech and other basic Pac-10 WCO's that compile stats against non existant D's.


third, the teams you listed as the best Carr beat, are middle of the pack compared to the Elites Vince has compiled his record setting 3000/1000 38TD numbers aainst.

Oklahoma
Ohio State
Michigan
USC
Texas Tech

(P.S.- vince went 25/29 336 yards 2tds 58 yds rushing 3 td's against Colorado)

Don't even try to compare their college creds. Carr had stats(so does every pac-10 QB), Vince had hardware to go with his NCAA record stats and the first national championship @ Texas in 35 years.
 
Did you know that USC had 3 walk ons playing in that Rose Bowl game on defense?

I listen to Charlie, but haven't recently.
 
Wolf said:
I find this so funny and yet frustrating.. The excuses that people come up with against VY .. and Bush

IF you don't like VY.. it is say the defense of USC stinks and that is why he was able to do that.. maybe so.. but VY hasn't had just one game that he has been a difference maker, he has had 2 years(why don't we just take Bush's stats away from that fresno state game afterall that is what really made him the heisman winner right there)

Bush.. people that don't like Bush discredit him because USC's offense was loaded.. and just blew people away.. (namely the pac -10)


Where can we stop and just say these 2 guys did great at the college level? we can find faults with either guy all day long.


Bottom line is this..
VY knows how to win and makes his teammates around him better because they believed in him ..
Bush.. is a threat to go the distance anytime he touches the ball whether it is rushing or receiving. short distances , he won't be able to pound it in that is his weakness

end of story.
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Good post, Wolf. I've been advocating a balanced analysis by people for awhile, because adding either Bush or Young to our team adds amazing talent and potentially huge playmaking abilities regardless of who we pick. Why diss one because you support the other? Just state your case with respect and intelligence, and leave it at that.

The crux of the matter hinges on the future of Carr, and if we want to just retool the machine, or do a complete rebuild. Personally, I'm a Texans fan for the long haul, but I sure would like to see a winning season sooner than later.
 
Nawzer said:
Does anyone listen to Charlie Pallilo anymore?
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I don't because even though he's really smart, he's not good solo.

I tried to get in at the end of Rich's show after the guy was arguing for Bush because "top RBs are so much easier to project" early in the draft.

I guess he forgot about William Green and TJ Ducket being picked before Deshaun Foster and Clinton Portis in '02, Ron Dayne getting picked before Shaun Alexander in '00, and Curtis Enis being the number 1 back taken in '99. And on and on. Yes, teams can draft stupid but for every misjudged QB talent, you could probably identify at least one misjudged RB talent.
 
Wolf said:
I find this so funny and yet frustrating.. The excuses that people come up with against VY .. and Bush

IF you don't like VY.. it is say the defense of USC stinks and that is why he was able to do that.. maybe so.. but VY hasn't had just one game that he has been a difference maker, he has had 2 years(why don't we just take Bush's stats away from that fresno state game afterall that is what really made him the heisman winner right there)

Bush.. people that don't like Bush discredit him because USC's offense was loaded.. and just blew people away.. (namely the pac -10)


Where can we stop and just say these 2 guys did great at the college level? we can find faults with either guy all day long.


Bottom line is this..
VY knows how to win and makes his teammates around him better because they believed in him ..
Bush.. is a threat to go the distance anytime he touches the ball whether it is rushing or receiving. short distances , he won't be able to pound it in that is his weakness

end of story.
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Standing Ovation

:thankyou: :thankyou:
 
Sudds said:
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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VY is the 1st QB to throw for over 3000 yards and rush for 1000 yards. Also Carr's record was only 18-8 while VY is 30-2 plus a national championship. VY also beat an Ohio State team in Columbus, which had never lost to a non big 10 team at home I think and hadn't lost a home game in over 30 games. VY also in that game threw for 270 and ran for 76 yards. VY did that against the #5 defense in the NCAA, that only aloud 281.3 yards and 15.2 points per game. Also LEAD the team in a comeback win in that game as well as the national championship.

Trust me, I was a Carr faithful. Defending him everytime I could but VY has proven to be a LEADER and this team needs a leader. Bob McNair has also said that the team expected more from David in the leader postion and he has yet to step up in that field.
 
Sudds said:
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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Hey, great performances vs. horrible defenses can get you a Heisman.

Signed, Reggie Bush
 
Nawzer said:
Does anyone listen to Charlie Pallilo anymore?
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I do. I can't handle Rich. Rich was bearable with Charlie, but he is not now. I have no problem with Marc.

The point of Vince's performance being overrated: I can see this. Some people are blowing it out of proportion. I think this is why people are saying it is overrated. He had a great performance, but Fresno did put up more points than even Texas did. Was it a great performance? Yes. Is Vince going to be the greatest QB ever? We will have to wait and see.

I don't think anyone is saying that Vince's performance was AVERAGE.
 
I agree and said the same thing the other day about the VY bashers. These are good kids. Hate the hype but not the player. Just for the record the original post is completely wrong. Take away what USC's defense did against Fresno and see what they did against UCLA. So they aren't horrible. Add the fact that it is the National Championship game that had 5 weeks of hype and the whole nation watching. The kid took on a team that was being mentioned in the same breath as the greatest teams ever, his coach never winning a thing, a program in a 25 year drought and with 1 minute left he made it look like a walk in the park. You are the only person I have ever heard call that overrated. Jack Pardee was on the radio because of his awards banquet and he called it one of the best games and games by a player he has ever seen. I'll leave it in the pros hands.
 
Sudds said:
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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What about Ohio State this yr and Rose Bowl last yr? This was not a 1 time great performance.Plus I`m sure Brady and Montana never benched or squat that much. Or put up big numbers like Carr.They just find a way to win!
 
CaptainPatriot said:
What about Ohio State this yr and Rose Bowl last yr? This was not a 1 time great performance.Plus I`m sure Brady and Montana never benched or squat that much. Or put up big numbers like Carr.They just find a way to win!
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Like I said before and I totally agree with you. VY is a leader and Carr is not. He may have a great arm but he is just not a leader!!
 
HoustonFrog said:
I agree and said the same thing the other day about the VY bashers. These are good kids. Hate the hype but not the player. Just for the record the original post is completely wrong. Take away what USC's defense did against Fresno and see what they did against UCLA. So they aren't horrible. Add the fact that it is the National Championship game that had 5 weeks of hype and the whole nation watching. The kid took on a team that was being mentioned in the same breath as the greatest teams ever, his coach never winning a thing, a program in a 25 year drought and with 1 minute left he made it look like a walk in the park. You are the only person I have ever heard call that overrated. Jack Pardee was on the radio because of his awards banquet and he called it one of the best games and games by a player he has ever seen. I'll leave it in the pros hands.
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I agree
What gets me is UT's defense was one of the better defenses, yet couldn't stop the 2 previous heisman trophy winners ..(face it Bush got his yards, Matt got his too).. and Young outshined them by himself.. USC's coaches had to stop one player and couldn't .. UT's defense had to stop 2 players and didn't .. and white came in and made it a triple attack.. which they didn't stop him either except for the most important time.

The hype of USC being the best team ever and 2 heisman trophy winners and blablabla basically sickened me. why? all this hype and what was the point spread on that game? one time I heard it was 1 1/2 points and last I heard it was around 7 right before the game.. Hype wise it was David versus Goliath ..with VY being David.

The game comparable to the Miami versus Ohio State a few years back where no one gave the underdog a chance
 
Zephyr said:
I do. I can't handle Rich. Rich was bearable with Charlie, but he is not now. I have no problem with Marc.
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My problem with all things 610 is that they act like they woke up, read the paper and that is the extent of their sports knowledge. I trust opinions here more. I used to think Palillo was surly and added nothing but now I listen to him in the afternoon. The guy knows his stuff.
 
One thing I will give VY.. he didn't have Ricky Williams in the backfield or Benson back there.. he didn't have a Sloan Thomas/Roy Williams or (forgot his name) as WR on that offense like Simms or Applewhite had.
 
texanfan2002114 said:
[/B]


VY is the 1st QB to throw for over 3000 yards and rush for 1000 yards. Also Carr's record was only 18-8 while VY is 30-2 plus a national championship. VY also beat an Ohio State team in Columbus, which had never lost to a non big 10 team at home I think and hadn't lost a home game in over 30 games. VY also in that game threw for 270 and ran for 76 yards. VY did that against the #5 defense in the NCAA, that only aloud 281.3 yards and 15.2 points per game. Also LEAD the team in a comeback win in that game as well as the national championship.

Trust me, I was a Carr faithful. Defending him everytime I could but VY has proven to be a LEADER and this team needs a leader. Bob McNair has also said that the team expected more from David in the leader postion and he has yet to step up in that field.
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I would take out of Carr's stat parade " Competent QB" on a decent team, Vince was just a good on a better Team. Ask his D. if he was that 30-2 without them. Carr's COLLEGE team was probably not as talented on D. hince 18-8. He came into a situation with little talent around him also. Vince hasn't had to deal with them apples yet. Leader of a team with a GOOD O-line and Defense is a lot easier than the situation he will find himself in at the NFL cellars.
 
texplayer2 said:
I would take out of Carr's stat parade " Competent QB" on a decent team, Vince was just a good on a better Team. Ask his D. if he was that 30-2 without them. Carr's COLLEGE team was probably not as talented on D. hince 18-8. He came into a situation with little talent around him also. Vince hasn't had to deal with them apples yet. Leader of a team with a GOOD O-line and Defense is a lot easier than the situation he will find himself in at the NFL cellars.
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VY's D didn't do him little favors vs USC, Oklahoma St..twice.. and a few other times in his career. He had to take over most of those games. Not bashing but I don't think Carr in college would have done the same.
 
texplayer2 said:
I would take out of Carr's stat parade " Competent QB" on a decent team, Vince was just a good on a better Team. Ask his D. if he was that 30-2 without them. Carr's COLLEGE team was probably not as talented on D. hince 18-8. He came into a situation with little talent around him also. Vince hasn't had to deal with them apples yet. Leader of a team with a GOOD O-line and Defense is a lot easier than the situation he will find himself in at the NFL cellars.
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VY lead his team in 6 come from behind wins, how many did Carr?? You say that Carr's team were not as good as as VY, so then my question to you is why did it take until Carr's junior season to start?? While on a better team, against better teams VY started 32 games in 2 seasons compared to Carr's 26. If Carr is so great why didn't he start sooner??? Please tell me.
 
texanfan2002114 said:
VY lead his team in 6 come from behind wins, how many did Carr?? You say that Carr's team were not as good as as VY, so then my question to you is why did it take until Carr's junior season to start?? While on a better team, against better teams VY started 32 games in 2 seasons compared to Carr's 26. If Carr is so great why didn't he start sooner??? Please tell me.
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all I know is he struggled and was redshirted.. then came back and played well..
 
HoustonFrog said:
VY's D didn't do him little favors vs USC, Oklahoma St..twice.. and a few other times in his career. He had to take over most of those games. Not bashing but I don't think Carr in college would have done the same.
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That why I added his O-line in the discussion. I only saw 3-4 plays where SC's defense got to Young behind his line and those were on Blitzes. He won't have that kind of time or talent in front of him. Texas recruiting class probably far outclassed Carr's during his tenure at Fresno St. He is fast and has skills, but he DID NOT win any games by himself. He had a good team built around him. Carr's numbers were without that quality.
 
If Carr is so great why didn't he start sooner??? Please tell me.
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Not to butt in, but the answer to that question is because he couldn't beat out Billy Volek. Volek is at least two years older though...
 
I never thought I would say that Trent Dilfer is the best QB out of Fresneck State...Trint Dilfer is the best QB out of Fresneck State. There, I said it.
 
aj. said:
Not to butt in, but the answer to that question is because he couldn't beat out Billy Volek. Volek is at least two years older though...
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The Stats discussed at the beginning of this thread were for his Senior season and had nothing to do with Volek that I was aware of.
 
Long-Spurs-Texan said:
I never thought I would say that Trent Dilfer is the best QB out of Fresneck State...Trint Dilfer is the best QB out of Fresneck State. There, I said it.
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Why are Fresno St. Qb's important to Carrs stats and the talent around him :rolleyes: when he was in college vs. Vince's stats and the talent around him?
 
I didn't read the whole thread - only caught that question. But one of the reasons Carr had the odd redshirt year was that he couldn't beat out Volek after coming out of HS as a five star prospect.
 
aj. said:
I didn't read the whole thread - only caught that question. But one of the reasons Carr had the odd redshirt year was that he couldn't beat out Volek after coming out of HS as a five star prospect.
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He couldn't beat out Volek, who is now a back up for the last 5 years. What does that say about David??
 
texanfan2002114 said:
He couldn't beat out Volek, who is now a back up for the last 5 years. What does that say about David??
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Yeah, lets hold the fact that 8 years ago David couldnt beat out Volek as ammo against him....
 
Say what you want about VY, but if he comes to the Texans and stinks it up, you will be arguing about what a stupid freakin choice it was to not get Bush. Give me a break!
 
HoustonFrog said:
I agree and said the same thing the other day about the VY bashers. These are good kids. Hate the hype but not the player. Just for the record the original post is completely wrong. Take away what USC's defense did against Fresno and see what they did against UCLA. So they aren't horrible. Add the fact that it is the National Championship game that had 5 weeks of hype and the whole nation watching. The kid took on a team that was being mentioned in the same breath as the greatest teams ever, his coach never winning a thing, a program in a 25 year drought and with 1 minute left he made it look like a walk in the park. You are the only person I have ever heard call that overrated. Jack Pardee was on the radio because of his awards banquet and he called it one of the best games and games by a player he has ever seen. I'll leave it in the pros hands.
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VY is overrated, and he will be another andre ware, health shuler etc Carr is the real QB, VY will be a bust!!!!!!!!!
 
wrestler4life said:
Say what you want about VY, but if he comes to the Texans and stinks it up, you will be arguing about what a stupid freakin choice it was to not get Bush. Give me a break!
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It's stinking pretty bad over here now.

I only hope you give Vince 4 years, before you call him a bust.
 
Wolf said:
check this thread out.. mainly the article

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16903
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Puh-lease......... we all agree, Reggie is a ball player. He's going to do great, where ever he goes. But he won't help us win anymore games than he helped USC win the Rose Bowl.

IF Reggie Bush is a future NFL Star by consensus, the Pete Carroll is a freeking Genius by those same standards. You can't go insulting the man because he didn't think Bush was going to get him two yards.

Now, Reggie won't help us win anymore games than we did last year.... what is he going to add 600 yards to our running game?? and 1000 yards to the passing game?? and we think he will, because of what he did in College?? But we don't think Vince will be able to do what he did in college??

Vince is the one player who can improve our running game, and our passing game, at the same time. We can leave things as is on offense, and if Vince does only a quarter of what he has in college, we will win more games. Use the rest of our picks on Defense, we will win more games.

Bush will only be able to help us, if Carr can get him the ball. Carr is having a hard time with that right now.
 
so Carr would have a hard time getting him the ball (bush)? and VY wouldn't?


To me the article is saying both players are going to do well and whichever one we don't pick.. the critics are going to jump out at the Texans now matter what
which is true.
 
This is a quote loosley translated from the New Orleans Boards.
I happen to agree with it..

I don't know what the "VY" hype is all about.
First off, in the Rose Bowl, Texas was playing a USC defense Not a NFL caliber defense by any means and not that great. USC LB's played very poorly in my opinion. The TE for Texas was wide open all the time and most of VY's receptions were high percentage passes. In the second half of the game he didn't fair as well against USC's defense passing-wise. He had to do alot more running as was apparent with his 200 yards rushing and 3 TD's. VY isn't that fast really, and in the NFL, everyone runs as fast as him. He also won't have" 5-6 seconds" in the pocket to look over a defense before he decides to run the ball, he'll have more like 2 seconds tops before he's sacked, throws an INT, tries to run for his life, etc. AND in the NFL, you have the cream of former college crop playing against you, not USC's defense. Though his passing has become better over the last two years, and from the beginning of this season to the end, he's still no where near that great of a passer. To succeed at the NFL level as many of you think he is capable. Hyping him up as if he was a NFL caliber QB. He has more to learn. VY is more of an athlete than a passer, and not nearly as good an athlete as Michael Vick is, and we've seen how many Championships Vick has won so far. I think Leinert is more of a NFL ready QB ML has come from USc playing in an NFL style offense. but I'm still for trading VY for more draft picks.
Re: Vince Young, no thanks

:homer:
 
Can any VY supporters tell me what makes him an assured NFL star? I do not accept he is a proven winner because David Green has the best QB winning percentage in NCAA history and was a third round pick, and will not likely ever start for an NFL team. Eric Crouch single handedly led his team to a national champtionship game his senior year (with far less talent than VY has around him) and he isnt even in the league. There are many many more stories just like those two. His running will be essentially negated at the NFL level. He'll have good scrambling abilities when he finds an opportunity, but there are linebackers in the league who run the 40 as fast as he does. There will be no effective QB draws. Mike Vick's running cannot be used as an example because he is much faster than VY (and has a stronger more accurate arm). I would classify his passing abilities as untested. His situation reminds me a lot of Ken Dorsey did at Miami. The guy has ages to throw the ball to wide open receivers, and an extremely good Defense takes care of a lot of those wins for him. He's a great college player and I was infinitely impressed by what he did in Pasadena, but absolutely not worth the risk. In my opinion you trade down and get a lot of players because this team needs a lot of help.
 
zeplin said:
I don't know what the "VY" hype is all about.
First off, in the Rose Bowl, Texas was playing a USC defense Not a NFL caliber defense by any means and not that great. USC LB's played very poorly in my opinion. The TE for Texas was wide open all the time and most of VY's receptions were high percentage passes. In the second half of the game he didn't fair as well against USC's defense passing-wise. He had to do alot more running as was apparent with his 200 yards rushing and 3 TD's. VY isn't that fast really, and in the NFL, everyone runs as fast as him. He also won't have" 5-6 seconds" in the pocket to look over a defense before he decides to run the ball, he'll have more like 2 seconds tops before he's sacked, throws an INT, tries to run for his life, etc. AND in the NFL, you have the cream of former college crop playing against you, not USC's defense. Though his passing has become better over the last two years, and from the beginning of this season to the end, he's still no where near that great of a passer. To succeed at the NFL level as many of you think he is capable. Hyping him up as if he was a NFL caliber QB. He has more to learn. VY is more of an athlete than a passer, and not nearly as good an athlete as Michael Vick is, and we've seen how many Championships Vick has won so far. I think Leinert is more of a NFL ready QB ML has come from USc playing in an NFL style offense. but I'm still for trading VY for more draft picks. hopefully Jay Cutler with our second.
Re: Vince Young, no thanks

:homer:
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Insert Reggie Bush's name into where VY's name is
 
what i don't understand is everyone is so quick to say VY isn't good because of USC's defense... It wasn't one game that VY had amazing stats..

Bush .. why don't we take away is "heisman game" away from him against fresno state because fresno doesn't have a good enough defense..


I am for the Texans to trade down if the offer is right.. I just don't understand why it is so easy for everyone to find faults with these 2 great college players games..

Bush is one hit away from having his "great" speed to average speed and then where is he?
VY also

for the record if P-buc could tackle .. he runs a sub 4.3 so Bush can't run much faster than that.. and D-rob is pretty close to that also.
 
thunderkyss said:
Now, Reggie won't help us win anymore games than we did last year.... what is he going to add 600 yards to our running game?? and 1000 yards to the passing game?? and we think he will, because of what he did in College?? But we don't think Vince will be able to do what he did in college??

Vince is the one player who can improve our running game, and our passing game, at the same time. We can leave things as is on offense, and if Vince does only a quarter of what he has in college, we will win more games. Use the rest of our picks on Defense, we will win more games.

Bush will only be able to help us, if Carr can get him the ball. Carr is having a hard time with that right now.
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I agree. To hit on your reference that Bush will have more reception yards than rushing yards: I've heard Bush fans say that in the NFL, he will be a lot like Westbrook in the Eagles offense.

While that is great and everything, and he's a great player, they utilize him like that so much b/c they don't have a running game. And how is that supposed to alleviate the pressure off of our O-line and Carr. Carr doesn't have time to throw the ball anyway, just b/c he has one more option doesn't mean that he will all of a sudden have time to throw. I thought one of the main complaints about the few pass plays that we did have this past year, was that they were just dump-offs to DD??!!

Also, while Westbrook is a good player, does anyone think he is worthy of a #1 pick? I sure don't.
 
Sudds said:
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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What you have to realize is Bob Mcnair has done his part and the Texans have been a profitable franchise as a business, but every other part of this organization from top to bottom has been an absolute failure!!! Sure there are bright spots. For instance Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson are very good players. Domanick Davis and Jerome Mathis were steals. But with those 4 pickups, I can name about 20 bad moves the organization has made to put them in a deep hole (flipping Aaaron Glenn for Philip Buchanon, flipping Jamie Sharper for Morlon Greenwood, trading to get Jason Babin, Tony Boselli, not being able to get Orlando Pace, Todd Wade, passing on Derrick Johnson, passing on Jason Witten for that Michigan tight end that's broken and never played a down, multiple wasted picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds over the first 4 years, and on and on and on (Casserly has an excuse for all of this garbage). I for one also came to the conclusion David Carr is not a leader or a winner a long time ago, regardless of the mitigating circumstances. I am a huge football fan, but I will not give them the benefit of the doubt forever. And yes, me, my 600,000 UT alumni and all of the Houstonians that enjoyed cheering for him at Madison and Texas demand they pick him or we won't ever cheer for this franchise. The last thing they gave us to cheer for was the friggin' Cowboys game 4 years ago. This is coming from a season ticket holder. Bottom Line, you don't draft Vince Young, I will not cheer for this team! If you want to call it holding the franchise hostage, fine, whatever it takes. In the end, drafting him is the only smart business decision, as if somebody like me, who has been extremely loyal to every team I've ever been a fan of is willing to walk away, there are 100s of 1000s of others just like me. They don't get to choose. They lost their privileges by making bad decisions for 4 years. Bob Mcnair save the franchise, take Young, and create another potential America's team or lose me/us forever!!!
 
Wolf said:
Bush .. why don't we take away is "heisman game" away from him against fresno state because fresno doesn't have a good enough defense..
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I couldn't agree more. I was planning on presenting this point myself. Glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way. I've always thought RB was a lot of hype just like all the VY haters on this board think about VY. IMO, if we don't take Vince, we DEFINITELY need to trade down. We don't need RB anymore than we don't need VY.
 
AustinJB said:
I agree. To hit on your reference that Bush will have more reception yards than rushing yards: I've heard Bush fans say that in the NFL, he will be a lot like Westbrook in the Eagles offense.

While that is great and everything, and he's a great player, they utilize him like that so much b/c they don't have a running game. And how is that supposed to alleviate the pressure off of our O-line and Carr. Carr doesn't have time to throw the ball anyway, just b/c he has one more option doesn't mean that he will all of a sudden have time to throw. I thought one of the main complaints about the few pass plays that we did have this past year, was that they were just dump-offs to DD??!!

Also, while Westbrook is a good player, does anyone think he is worthy of a #1 pick? I sure don't.
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The only time I remember our offense even being successful was when he had more Options. The first two years, he had a TE Billy Miller, who was fairly successful and helped keep some pressure off Carr. The second year we got AJ and the sack totals went down. Since we have gotten back to AJ being our only threat the sack totals are arising again. A+B =C ergo we need more threats. The more a defense has to take care of the less effective they will be overall. Could get Carr a second or two more a few more times a game to make the plays and the passes we need.
 
E-Dawg said:
This is coming from a season ticket holder. Bottom Line, you don't draft Vince Young, I will not cheer for this team! If you want to call it holding the franchise hostage, fine, whatever it takes. In the end, drafting him is the only smart business decision, as if somebody like me, who has been extremely loyal to every team I've ever been a fan of is willing to walk away, there are 100s of 1000s of others just like me. /quote]


GOOD. Best thing that could happen is for fans like you to leave. Don't let the door hit ya in the backside! Go worship Vince where ever he winds up at.
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