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Young Pro Day

Lucky said:
Let's take this opportunity to make up. :grouphug:

BTW, there are other Horns that should be on the Texans' radar. Cedric Griffin can play CB or FS and would be a good pick in the 3rd round.
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Its all good in the hood. I have got my sights on Grif in the 3rd as well.
 
Lucky said:
Edit: This is my 2112th post & I'd like to pay tribute to Rush, one of my favorite arena rock bands.
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I knew my wife was different when I found out she was a rare woman who had Rush as their favorite band. I'm not as big on the new stuff but absolutely love their older work.
 
Just curious, but when was the last time a top QB had a bad workout on his pro-day. It's always Smith, Rodgers, Cutler impress at pro-day. Do these guys ever puke on themselves and hit a scout in back of the head on a 15 yard out?
 
I think he should do anything he can at this point to show that he is more spectacular than Jay Cutler...who at the moment is the player moving up most people boards...if he doesnt throw the ball great he doest have his supposed "4.3-4.4" time to say that if he works on his throwing he could be the leagues most dynamic... Running the ball is part of his game... its just a cop out in my opinion
 
Dunta_23 said:
I think he should do anything he can at this point to show that he is more spectacular than Jay Cutler...who at the moment is the player moving up most people boards...if he doesnt throw the ball great he doest have his supposed "4.3-4.4" time to say that if he works on his throwing he could be the leagues most dynamic... Running the ball is part of his game... its just a cop out in my opinion
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And are you suggesting that no one has seen him run within the confines of a live game or at least on video? Moreover, are you suggesting that the rules committee will be offering bonus points for QB's who can run 40 yards in a straight line under 4.5 before the game or half time?

People need to see more of Jay Cutler, because those that saw Cutler saw it against opponents that were not that good or he did not perform that well against the better SEC teams.

http://vanderbilt.rivals.com/schedule.asp?SID=1087&TEAM=VANDERBILT&Year=2005
 
He had a pretty good game against Florida. They lost 42-49, but look at his stats

28-42 361 yards 4 TDs 2 INTs
 
VY won't run the 40 because he is not that quick from a dead stop ~ Vince has long legs which take a bit longer to set into a full stride. When Vince is scrambling around - then breaks he is exceptionally fast, but of course this can't be recreated in a stop n' go 40 dash.

I would put Vince in the 13-18 rep range on the 225 test.



Today he will show off his arm.
 
TEXAS: MARCH 22
Texas' Pro Day got under way with 31 teams in attendance, including over 150 coaches, general managers and scouts. Among the team personnel in attendance were three key members of the Texans (owner Bob McNair, head coach Gary Kubiak and GM Charley Casserly), Green Bay head coach Mike McCarthy and GM Ted Thompson, Dolphins head coach Nick Saban and general manager Randy Mueller, Titans general manager Floyd Reese and offensive coordinator Norm Chow, Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, Ravens quarterbacks coach Rick Neuheisel, and Cowboys new quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer. Titans head coach Jeff Fisher will visit Texas tonight and Tennessee will have a private workout with Vince Young Thursday morning.
Player Position Gil's comments
Vince Young QB Young (6-4 5/8, 228) ran the 40 once in 4.57. He didn't do the vertical or long jumps.
Will Allen G Allen (6-4 7/8, 306) measured 26½ inches in the vertical jump.
Brian Carter WR Carter (5-10 5/8, 185) had a 38-inch vertical jump.
Larry Dibbles DT Dibbles (6-1 3/8, 290) had a 27½-inch vertical jump.
Cedric Griffin DB Griffin (6-0 3/8, 202) had a 35-inch vertical jump.
Ahmard Hall RB Hall (5-10¾, 232) was clocked at 4.56 and 4.49 in the 40 and had a 35-inch vertical jump.
Aaron Harris LB Harris (5-11 3/8, 225) had a 27½-inch vertical jump.
Michael Huff DB Huff (5-11 7/8, 198) stood on his Combine numbers.
Jonathan Scott OL Scott (6-6, 322) has an arm length of 33 7/8 inches and a hand size of 10 inches.
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http://nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts

Looks like he ran a 4.57 and did nothing else.
 
4.57 doesnt make me wet myself...I wonder how his throwing went

I think a 4.42 like he said he could run would have helped things out alot.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
So the VY has something to hide fan fare can calm down now?
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how about us "his management is minor league" crowd? he's not running, he's running, he runs a 4.57 .... is that what was expected? I thought he was in the 4.45 range?
 
chuckm said:
how about us "his management is minor league" crowd? he's not running, he's running, he runs a 4.57 .... is that what was expected? I thought he was in the 4.45 range?
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Why do you care? Do you want VY or not?

I do not want VY myself, but try to frame the debate from both sides. 4.57 is what I would have expected, but even if he ran a 4.3 it would not change my opinion of the kid nor my opinion that the Texans will be passing.
 
chuckm said:
how about us "his management is minor league" crowd? he's not running, he's running, he runs a 4.57 .... is that what was expected? I thought he was in the 4.45 range?
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A lot of kids have run slower than expected times on Texas' surface. In contrast, the Combine surface was ridiculously slick (from reports and measured times). So, I think that's understood by the NFL folk... however, if he was that concerned about the time, the logical thing would have been to run at the Combine, post a gaudy time and give 'em something to talk about, throw at the friendly confines of the pro-day. That's hindsight, however, and more than a few eyebrows would have been raised at a QB willing to run, but not throw. Along those lines, I imagine he abstained from the jumping exercises to not allow anyone to talk about him at WR... certainly nothing to hide there, just check out some old basketball highlights.

He is right about team's knowing what he could do with his legs, he was seldom caught from behind.
 
SnakeOilTanker said:
4.57 doesnt make me wet myself...I wonder how his throwing went
I think a 4.42 like he said he could run would have helped things out alot.
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I dunno.....forget about making it as a NFL Matt Jones type, because his time is turtle like compared to the former Razorback QB. VY had better keep
his day job, looks like QB is his only option unless he could beef up, learn how to block and play TE.
 
lol ... 4.57.

Hear that whistle? That's the sound of draft stock ... dropping.

Hopefully the guy can redeem this showing with throwing drills.

IMO, Vince's only real goal today was (or should have been) to "not screw up." Stand on the strength of the still impressive Rose Bowl performance, and don't do anything to tarnish it. Running a 4.57 doesn't dillute his Rose Bowl/collegiate career runs, but it does help to frame the relativity of his competition in completing those runs ... something I and others have been pointing to all along.

Then again I suppose we will hear soon enough how the timekeepers screwed up the score and Vince will run again and notch a 4.41.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Why do you care? Do you want VY or not?

I do not want VY myself, but try to frame the debate from both sides. 4.57 is what I would have expected, but even if he ran a 4.3 it would not change my opinion of the kid nor my opinion that the Texans will be passing.
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I've said this before (many times) and I'll say it again just for you ... here's my opinion in an easy to read format

1) Give Carr a chance with a real offense and a real offensive scheme
2) Draft Bush because IMO Kubiak's offensive scheme is tailor-made for his cutback ability and Kubiak is imaginative enough to use him correctly
3) Young is the second or third best QB in this draft almost everywhere except Southeast Texas


My disdain for the Young disciples is approached but not surpassed by the Carr apologists. The blame for last year's debacle should be spread around.

awaiting your witty reply ....
 
The most interesting part was who was in attendance, esp the key personnel:

"Texas' Pro Day got under way with 31 teams in attendance, including over 150 coaches, general managers and scouts. Among the team personnel in attendance were three key members of the Texans (owner Bob McNair, head coach Gary Kubiak and GM Charley Casserly), Green Bay head coach Mike McCarthy and GM Ted Thompson, Dolphins head coach Nick Saban and general manager Randy Mueller, Titans general manager Floyd Reese and offensive coordinator Norm Chow, Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, Ravens quarterbacks coach Rick Neuheisel, and Cowboys new quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer. Titans head coach Jeff Fisher will visit Texas tonight and Tennessee will have a private workout with Vince Young Thursday morning.

After the workout is over in the bubble, Vince Young will go into the main meeting room with Texas offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Greg Davis for a Chalkboard Session, where team representatives get the chance to ask Young questions about his on-field decision-making in different situations."
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Jerek, I remember several non-VY supporters saying that he would not run in the 4.4s that he was about as fast as Gaffney. Huh, weird how we knew, but that VY brand Koolaid makes things appear better than they are. Anyway, hope you enjoy collecting on those bets, eventhough I think most are going to welch on you.
 
tulexan said:
Didn't Carr run a 4.67 40? Not too much faster by Vince
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I've read VY was reported at 4.49 elsewhere. Everybody has their own watch. Carr really utilized that speed in the WAC... nope he was still sack prone and didn't run effectively.
 
Lance Z says it wasn't planned for him to run. He got sucked into the competition and wanted to run. No telling if he was training for the time like a lot of guys do. Sounds like he just went for it. Also said former players told him VY doesn't run a fast 40 because it "takes him a long time to warm up". That would indicate his game speed is better than his track speed. I don't know about all that, but his top gear seems pretty solid.
 
LanceZ couldn't give the exact number (some UT restriction) but said it was slower than 4.5 ... FWIW
 
Johnny Utah said:
Here we go, another Wonderlic fiasco. :)
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it's not that big a deal.

he ran once & there were what, like 40 people with stopwatches? obviously they got different times.

whomever reported to patrick times a 4.49.

whomever reported to nfl.com got a 4.57
 
They really should have electronically timed 40 times at all of these pro days, private workouts, and Combine. There is so much variation in the amount of time that it takes between the player crossing the finish line and the timer pressing stop.

All of these times could be uniform if they just timed them like they do for track events where the clock stops when the runner crosses the laser.
 
tulexan said:
They really should have electronically timed 40 times at all of these pro days, private workouts, and Combine. There is so much variation in the amount of time that it takes between the player crossing the finish line and the timer pressing stop.

All of these times could be uniform if they just timed them like they do for track events where the clock stops when the runner crosses the laser.
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Agreed. Then there's the question of uniform surface.
 
stevo3883 said:
i wouldn't hold much weight on that time..
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Why wouldn't you? It was timed at UT. If there is one place on the planet where timekeepers err on the side of VInce, it is there.

Or are you saying don't hold much weight because Vince didn't try? Wtf would he run it for if he wasn't going all out?

Or maybe it is just part of the ongoing conspiracy to discredit Vince? nfl.com is in on the action now? Vince ran this in front of a crew of scouts and personnel: it isn't a guy scoring it in a backroom somewhere.

Incredible the lengths people will go to. VY drinkers are ten times worse than the "Carr lovers" because it isn't even a case of questioning intangibles or things on which opinions can exist and differ, but you want to question a forty-time on the UT campus of all places.

Unbelievable. Or maybe I am just overreacting. Please clarify.
 
Dr. Toro said:
Agreed. Then there's the question of uniform surface.
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Honestly, this is why the combine is the fairest measure. They are all running under the same conditions.
 
jerek said:
Why wouldn't you? It was timed at UT. If there is one place on the planet where timekeepers err on the side of VInce, it is there.

Or are you saying don't hold much weight because Vince didn't try? Wtf would he run it for if he wasn't going all out?

Or maybe it is just part of the ongoing conspiracy to discredit Vince? nfl.com is in on the action now? Vince ran this in front of a crew of scouts and personnel: it isn't a guy scoring it in a backroom somewhere.

Incredible the lengths people will go to. VY drinkers are ten times worse than the "Carr lovers" because it isn't even a case of questioning intangibles or things on which opinions can exist and differ, but you want to question a forty-time on the UT campus of all places.

Unbelievable. Or maybe I am just overreacting. Please clarify.
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It's not a basketball game, it's a bunch of scouts with stopwatches. There is no homer timekeeper. Brandt was initially reporting the slower of two times at the combine, not even averaging the times (Jackson at 4.37 not 4.29, for example). He's been conservative with times in the past, and times varying by 8/100 of a second shouldn't be a surprise. It's not automated.

EDIT: Jackson times
 
What does it matter? A QUARTERBACK who is almost 6'5" and 228 lbs. who can run the 40 in a 4.57 seconds is cruising. Besides, track speed doesn't really matter. What his game films. You will see what kind of speed and quickness that he has. On top of that, he is strong.

This kind of stuff always gets blown out of porportion. I'm anxious to see how he throws.
 
According to Lance Z. he was perfect on the short stuff, slants, and deep balls. Adequate but not "muscling" the 20 yard digs. Footwork was really good. Arm slot a little better, and VY sounds out to prove people wrong.
 
tulexan said:
They really should have electronically timed 40 times at all of these pro days, private workouts, and Combine. There is so much variation in the amount of time that it takes between the player crossing the finish line and the timer pressing stop.

All of these times could be uniform if they just timed them like they do for track events where the clock stops when the runner crosses the laser.
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Definitely, makes no sense why they wouldn't. Human reaction time alone would provide variance in the tenths of second I believe. So from this standpoint, you have an excuse. Not much of one though. 4.49 is still well short of these 4.3+ to low 4.4 predictions I have been reading of for weeks now.
 
For the record I am a Longhorn fan and Vince will always hold a place in my heart for what he did in the Rose Bowl, but I did go back and watch some game film (specifically the USC Rose Bowl and the Michigan Rose Bowl).

In the USC Rose Bowl, Vince ran about 55 yards before being tackled and I reviewed it until I determined what his fastest 40 yard burst was and accounted for his running crossfield before going in a straight line, I timed him (using a track stopwatch) at 4.43.

In the Michigan game, I found his 60 yard run and started the stopwatch at the 40 yard line (when he crossed it) to the goal line (at this point he is running hard because 2 defenders are close and in chase) and after several times rewinding and retiming, I timed Vince in the range between 4.48 and 4.52 for an average of 4.50 (actually 4.4975) so the 4.56 could be legit.
 
Wild.Bill said:
What does it matter? A QUARTERBACK who is almost 6'5" and 228 lbs. who can run the 40 in a 4.57 seconds is cruising. Besides, track speed doesn't really matter. What his game films. You will see what kind of speed and quickness that he has. On top of that, he is strong.
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Don't forget leader. He has great leadership.

Besides, I heard he was tired from delivering babies all night at the county hospital, and that was right before he parted the Rio Grande so some nice families could make it across safely.

The guy is a great athlete, there is no dispute about that. I think what most people on this board are tired of is all the grandstanding and leg humping that make it sound like he is the greatest player ever and he will change the league, adding to that the idea that everytime he does something that isn't quite perfect you have people rushing to cover and make excuses.

The 40 was skewed because the grass was too long.
The Wonderlic was bad because they misgraded.
His passes are off because of this.
Blahzee-Blah-Blah.

I wish him all the luck in the world. He will play for someone, and play well. He will be awesome and amazing and you will see flash bulbs everytime he plays. I just don't want him playing for Houston.
 
I found this posted on UT football board. I thought it was a great article about VY. It was written by a local high coach who had to devise a plan to defend against VY. I hope the Texans are paying attention.

:fans:




"I have been coaching football for many years and I have never had to gameplan for a player like we did for VY as a senior at Madison. I coach at a "speed" school and we had never seen anyone like him. We had several guys run in the high 4.4's low 4.5's on the team (handheld watches) and we were still aghast at his speed.

I was actually at the Dome his senior year waiting for Madison to complete their practice so we could have ours (they were preparing for Katy and us for Northshore). All of the coaches, some of them had been coaching for 30+ years, all stared in amazement at him running around the field. We knew then that we would be in for the longest of long afternoons when we sat down to devise a plan to defend him.

I have never seen anyone with his speed and size on a football field and regardless of his 40 "time" he will never be caught from behind and he is so strong that any contact made while he is gaining momentum is normally shrugged off or has minimal effect on him gaining speed. Any coach/scout who concerns himself with his speed on a timing day need only get on field level during game time to fully undertand what he is capable of. "
 
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