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Young Pro Day

I think VY at least runs a 4.4 if not better. I wouldnt be suprised if he was in the low 4.4s maybe somewhere near a high 4.3
 
Texas has their pro day Wednesday March 22, so no one has run yet. I doubt Huff runs the 40 and such after his great run at the Combine, but he'll probably do position drills. I don't know if Vince will run the 40 or not. If he is going to run in the mid-4.4s, then if he's smart he'll run just in case he doesn't wow people with his throwing so they at least know he's fast. If he won't be able to run in the 4.4s and will be more like the 4.5s then I'm not sure he runs since "everyone knows what he can do with his legs" and he won't be proving any kind of amazing speed with those times. Bottom line Vince's draft stock comes entirely down to how well he throws the ball tomorrow, that will be the #1 remaining factor in where he goes in the draft since he's done nothing since January 4th to improve his stock. His 40 time is going to be just a little icing on the cake or a little consolation prize depending on how his arm looks.
 
MorKnolle said:
Texas has their pro day Wednesday March 22, so no one has run yet. I doubt Huff runs the 40 and such after his great run at the Combine, but he'll probably do position drills. I don't know if Vince will run the 40 or not. If he is going to run in the mid-4.4s, then if he's smart he'll run just in case he doesn't wow people with his throwing so they at least know he's fast. If he won't be able to run in the 4.4s and will be more like the 4.5s then I'm not sure he runs since "everyone knows what he can do with his legs" and he won't be proving any kind of amazing speed with those times. Bottom line Vince's draft stock comes entirely down to how well he throws the ball tomorrow, that will be the #1 remaining factor in where he goes in the draft since he's done nothing since January 4th to improve his stock. His 40 time is going to be just a little icing on the cake or a little consolation prize depending on how his arm looks.
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I agree completely. If he does run, it should be because he's been burning the track up lately. Hasn't Texas track been slow in recent years?
 
Seems like the only way Vince Young can stop his (very expensive) slide is to throw the bejesus out of the ball, make every throw, look great doing it, have perfect timing, have his release look reasonably like a regular QB, run a 4.3, and have other great drills. I don't expect half of this to happen.

Then I expect him to go 7-13 in the draft and sit for half a year before starting a career I think (and hope) will be exceptional. Look forward to watching him play at "the next level" and seeing just how much of the domination of the college game falls away in the pros.
 
I think he will have to sit for longer than half of a season. I would say a full season minimum, possibly two seasons.
 
tulexan said:
I think he will have to sit for longer than half of a season. I would say a full season minimum, possibly two seasons.
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Except for the Brees/Rivers situation, no top 10 draft pick should sit for more than 1 season. It just seems counterproductive. THe best learning is on the field during game time
 
Vince is a very raw player who will need a lot of work. He isn't the typical top 10 draft pick QB.
 
infantrycak said:
The guys on 610 am said Vince is not going to run or lift at his pro-day.
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What does this mean?

I haven't followed real close because i've never been a real draftnik, but he didn't run or lift at the combine, correct? Does this mean he won't ever have a timed 40 or lift before the draft? I find that unsettling for a guy who's list of strengths always include fast and strong.

Is this unusual for guys who already think they have guaranteed themselves a high draft slot?
 
Runner said:
What does this mean?

I haven't followed real close becuase i've never been a real draftnik, but he didn't run or lift at the combine, correct? Does this mean he won't ever have a timed 40 or lift before the draft? I find that unsettling for a guy who's list of strengths always include fast and strong.

Is this unusual for guys who already think they have guaranteed themselves a high draft slot?
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Yeah, if he is going to play WR. Nobody really cares about the top end speed of a QB in the NFL. They just want to see him throw the ball like an NFL QB.
 
Runner said:
What does this mean?

I haven't followed real close becuase i've never been a real draftnik, but he didn't run or lift at the combine, correct? Does this mean he won't ever have a timed 40 or lift before the draft? I find that unsettling for a guy who's list of strengths always include fast and strong.

Is this unusual for guys who already think they have guaranteed themselves a high draft slot?
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My impression is most guys even at the top do these tests at their pro-day although many skip doing them at the combine. Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Eli Manning all did strength and speed tests. It probably should be irrelevent because there is plenty of tape of him running and they can judge his arm strength from the passing. I wonder if this isn't a mistake by his handlers though--it never seems like a good idea IMO to stand out for not doing something.
 
In the end it'll be irrelevant .... but you can bet that if he (or his management) were confident that he could rip off a 4.4 40 or 25 reps on the bench that he'd be doing it ....
 
chuckm said:
In the end it'll be irrelevant .... but you can bet that if he (or his management) were confident that he could rip off a 4.4 40 or 25 reps on the bench that he'd be doing it ....
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Frankly, they just want everyone with the mindset that he is a QB and probably only want to showcase his arm. If people can't tell he is fast by watching him play, then they have issues. If Young is going to be a top 5 pick it will because he throws well, not because he runs a 4.43
 
OK, thanks for the answers. At the risk of being thrown into a variety of hater/lover camps, I'd like to make one point. If VY is truly a guy who can "redefine the position of quarterback" and is being evaluated that way, I would think that he'd start writing that definition now and do the workouts.

I am prepared to stop, draw, and roll. :)
 
Why is this a suprise to people, he has not worked out at all and all of a sudden he would not work out at his designated Pro day. What the hell people come on VY is not a god and he has to prove himself like every other prospect.
 
Runner said:
OK, thanks for the answers. At the risk of being thrown into a variety of hater/lover camps, I'd like to make one point. If VY is truly a guy who can "redefine the position of quarterback" and is being evaluated that way, I would think that he'd start writing that definition now and do the workouts.

I am prepared to stop, draw, and roll. :)
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You may want pull out the duck and cover move as well. ;)
 
Runner said:
OK, thanks for the answers. At the risk of being thrown into a variety of hater/lover camps, I'd like to make one point. If VY is truly a guy who can "redefine the position of quarterback" and is being evaluated that way, I would think that he'd start writing that definition now and do the workouts.

I am prepared to stop, draw, and roll. :)
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He's not out to "redefine the QB position today", hes protecting his draft stock. Let's say he runs a 4.2 and throws horribly. He drops like a rock. If he throws well and captures the imagination of cynics who don't think he can throw the deep out he stays a top-5 candidate. How much he benches and if he runs a 4.4 or 4.5 has nothing to do with what he is trying to accomplish today.
 
VY's work ethic is starting to come into question,

The debalce at the combine, not working there, not running or lifting today, it just doesn't seem like he understands what it will take at the next level.

Its not any one event but all of them combined that makes me hope he goes to Dallas or Tenn.
 
Coach C. said:
Why is this a suprise to people, he has not worked out at all and all of a sudden he would not work out at his designated Pro day. What the hell people come on VY is not a god and he has to prove himself like every other prospect.
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Some people think they know a good football player by watching games.
 
Vinny said:
He's not out to "redefine the QB position today", hes protecting his draft stock.
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and choosing to not run and lift "protects" his stock? Doesn't that foster a perception of "something to hide"? Jeeez you'd think his first reaction would be to run because that's his strength.
 
chuckm said:
and choosing to not run and lift "protects" his stock? Doesn't that foster a perception of "something to hide"? Jeeez you'd think his first reaction would be to run because that's his strength.
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If you scroll up I already gave you my answer. I know why I stay out of these kinds of threads all of a sudden. Carry on with your hate for Young...Sorry to interrupt.
 
This is what I don't like about Vince and what I like about Jay Cutler. Seems like there is always some mystery to Vince. He doesn't seem like he is willing to completely showcase the player that he is. Cutler on the other hand does everything that is asked to show the GMs, scouts, and owners exactly who he is. Could Cutler potentially hurt his stock by participating in all of these drills? Sure, but at least people know.
 
Vinny said:
If you scoll up I already gave you my answer.
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yea i read your take .... just not sure that choosing to skip drills is "advisable" at this point .... but he hasn't asked my opinion ..
 
Vinny said:
Frankly, they just want everyone with the mindset that he is a QB and probably only want to showcase his arm. If people can't tell he is fast by watching him play, then they have issues. If Young is going to be a top 5 pick it will because he throws well, not because he runs a 4.43
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Yea, this would seem to be a logical strategy at this point in time. Afterall, VYs running skill set, to include his sprinting speed, has probably already got too much exposure. I dunno....the whole run first, pass second label has been afixed on VY, rightly or wrongly. Concentrading on his passing skills would be the area to dwell on right now, even to the extend of ignoring his running skills.
 
Vinny said:
If you scroll up I already gave you my answer. I know why I stay out of these kinds of threads all of a sudden. Carry on with your hate for Young...Sorry to interrupt.
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Seems a little fast on the hate 6 shooter. Anyway, I agree that teams should be able to judge Young's speed from game tape. Of course the same thing could be said for his throwing--there is tape of hundreds of throws in real game conditions, what difference should 50 throws in non-game conditions make? In fact, you could chuck the whole pro-day thing out as silly.

My only comment was to question his management. Flip this around--how bad would VY have to run or lift to hurt his draft stock?--my guess would be 4.7 or above and under what 12 lifts. Why not go ahead and knock out a 4.5 and 18 lifts and have this all be a non-issue? I see where you are coming from on concentrating on the passer image, but JMO his management has to weight that goal against a predictable reaction to not participating in drills as well.
 
infantrycak said:
Why not go ahead and knock out a 4.5 and 18 lifts and have this all be a non-issue?
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But why is it an issue? Manufactured doubt is a powerful tool for nay sayers. I could care less, because I do not think we are drafting him, nor do I want us to draft him. However, I cannot wait to watch the guy play in the NFL. I just do not understand how people just want to tear down a guy that has zero impact on their fandom, unless they are aggies of course.
 
I'm thinking Bush should refuse to catch passes at his pro draft. He'll want to downplay the mindset that's he a good receiver.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
But why is it an issue? Manufactured doubt is a powerful tool for nay sayers. I could care less, because I do not think we are drafting him, nor do I want us to draft him. However, I cannot wait to watch the guy play in the NFL. I just do not understand how people just want to tear down a guy that has zero impact on their fandom, unless they are aggies of course.
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Don't forget about the Sooners.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
But why is it an issue? Manufactured doubt is a powerful tool for nay sayers. I could care less, because I do not think we are drafting him, nor do I want us to draft him. However, I cannot wait to watch the guy play in the NFL. I just do not understand how people just want to tear down a guy that has zero impact on their fandom, unless they are aggies of course.
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Holy madre de jezus--I am not naysaying him or tearing him down. It is an issue IMO only from a management perspective. Most players even at the top of the draft run a 40 at some point and lift. By not doing that VY is taking a less travelled path. Whenever you take a less travelled path the decision is going to be analyzed. Why not avoid the distraction and make it a non-issue? Vinny has given one reason, emphasis on his passing ability. I'm just not sure that outweighs having the issue predictably raised.
 
chuckm said:
I'm thinking Bush should refuse to catch passes at his pro draft. He'll want to downplay the mindset that's he a good receiver.
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I hope he does not as his value to us is as RB and WR. Moreover, I want to see him catch a Carr type ball more so than a Leinart ball.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I hope he does not as his value to us is as RB and WR. Moreover, I want to see him catch a Carr type ball more so than a Leinart ball.
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oh I am soooo there with you ... I'm just trying to point out the fallacy of Young not wanting to run because he wants to foster the mindset that he's a QB..... the guy has more physical gifts than 99.999999% of people ever to pull on pads .... For God's sake, SHOW THEM OFF
 
Vince Young doesn't need to run today. If a team interested in taking Vince needs a 40 time (he hasn't had an injury, why would they?), they can ask him to run at a private workout. This pro day, which will be scripted by Young's tutor Jerry Rhome, is not as important as the private workouts where teams can get a hands-on evaluation of Vince with their coaches.
 
infantrycak said:
Holy madre de jezus--I am not naysaying him or tearing him down. It is an issue IMO only from a management perspective. Most players even at the top of the draft run a 40 at some point and lift. By not doing that VY is taking a less travelled path. Whenever you take a less travelled path the decision is going to be analyzed. Why not avoid the distraction and make it a non-issue? Vinny has given one reason, emphasis on his passing ability. I'm just not sure that outweighs having the issue predictably raised.
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Simmer down, I was not saying you are a naysayer or tearing him down. We have talked about the management which has been a disaster to date from a PR standpoint. However, when one brings a player to market one does it with a bifurcated scheme - promotion and skill development. They have hired Jerry Rhome to work with VY. NFL personell will be speaking with Rhome about the football side of VY, count on it, they will not be speaking with VY's agent until there is a need to organize 1x1 meetings with VY and the teams. And then ultimatley Adams will be there to work VY's contract.
 
Lance and John say it doesn't matter that Young isn't running or lifting ... close this thread immediately
 
Lucky said:
Vince Young doesn't need to run today. If a team interested in taking Vince needs a 40 time (he hasn't had an injury, why would they?), they can ask him to run at a private workout. This pro day, which will be scripted by Young's tutor Jerry Rhome, is not as important as the private workouts where teams can get a hands-on evaluation of Vince with their coaches.
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Not to often are we in harmony, but my sentiments exactly.
 
To summarize the points I was interested in:

1) It is an unusual move, which invites scrutiny.
2) There is a logical reason behind the decision.
3) There is equal logic to why the decision may backfire and raise questions.
4) He may run these drills privately for teams that are interested in drafting him.

So it is basically a risk/reward decision based on protecting (but maybe not enhancing?), his draft stock.

Thanks for the discussion.
 
VY is a QB, QBs throw the ball, he is throwing the ball. Not much else for him to do. Nice if he ran and lifted, but not really part of the QB story.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Not to often are we in harmony, but my sentiments exactly.
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Let's take this opportunity to make up. :grouphug:

BTW, there are other Horns that should be on the Texans' radar. Cedric Griffin can play CB or FS and would be a good pick in the 3rd round.

Edit: This is my 2112th post & I'd like to pay tribute to Rush, one of my favorite arena rock bands.
 
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