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"Workout Warriors"-Home page article

Kaiser Toro said:
We can all agree that he is our QB next year, I think we can all agree that if Kubiak and Sherman can't get Carr on the right path then no one can, I think we can all agree that his contract has been the biggest cap hit on our team and may be slightly lower than AJ's this year.

We all want results. Some of us hypothesize on where this organization has gone wrong - Capers, Casserly, Boselli, Babin, PBuch, Joe Texan, Glenn and Sharper being released. Throw a rock in the bubble and you are going to hit a culpable person. Carr is the face of the franchise the first pick we have ever had. Some of our fans are more Carr fans than Texans fans or just like the guy whether it is the off the field or on the field persona. I look at Carr in one way, he makes to much money within the finite budget we have to put together the best team possible. That money is needed to invest into the weapons or resources to make him a more effective player. I have always said that if he was paid more for his output I would have no problem with us at the QB position.

I am not so much an anti Carr guy as I am a pro journeyman QB guy. QB's are a commodity more than ever within the salary cap era.

I totally agree with you KT.
I think Carr will be a better player and this team will be better with the coaching changes this year. More team excitement, more open offense, new ideas, new faces, etc.
I spend close to $1600.00 ever year with the Texans for season tickets and parking. I did renew my season tickets this year. Does this make me an expert, no. But please don't tell me that I can't critize, vent and speak my feelings about Texan players.
My wife will vouch for this, I came home hoarse every home game, from yelling for this team and will continue to.

Bobby 119C
 
Frills said:
Ray Ray is a superb leader, knows when to lie to cops and cover up murders...just the right sort of player we'd want...to compare DC to Prisoner 4023567 is a disgrace.

Wow, the double standard is alive and well.

I too can see the strong correlation between NFL success, watching film at home, and murder charges. What were we thinking about? It's been there all along.
 
Frills said:
to compare DC to Prisoner 4023567 is a disgrace.

It is a disgrace to compare him to fictional characters such as Prisoner 4023567, the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause and a top 10 QB in the NFL.
 
infantrycak said:
No there is zero difference for this issue. If it is a good work habit for a player then it is a good work habit. By your rule it is definitional--everything Carr does is wrong because he is mediocre. That doesn't work. You define what is good and apply it, not decide you want to criticize a person and say whatever they do is wrong.

Maybe I took this wrong and if so I do appolige!

Bobby 119C
 
Man...this is like politics. Nothing Carr does is right. Geez...in fantasy, stats show up like this, and then the reactions (just playing around...and didn't sleep much last night:

Carr - 300yds passing, 2 TDs, 30+ rush yds​

reaction

You suck Carr!!!

VY - 5yds passing, 2 INTs, 40+ rush yds w/ 2 fumbles

reaction

VY is God's gift to football....yeah​
 
Runner said:
Here is a question. We have many players who fly out after the last game of the season and don't return until they have to. Many of these work out just as hard or harder on their own. Miami players all seem to go back to the U and work out together, for instance.

What does everyone think of that? Especially if the player is in a skill position that requires precise timing and communication with others that are here working out with the team?

The U is known for having the most bad-*** workout rooms around, and obviously, competing with players of equal or greater talent is great for Dre. But, I think Dre and Edge should be in their respective training camps. This is not a BS year. New coach, new system, and we need to launch out of a cannon a couple of balls at Dre so that he can catch better. It seemed to work his second year, when he went to the Pro Bowl. Dre does not play with the University of Miami anymore. He plays with Houston and needs to practice in Houston.
 
bigTEXan8 said:
Man...this is like politics. Nothing Carr does is right. Geez...in fantasy, stats show up like this, and then the reactions (just playing around...and didn't sleep much last night:

Carr - 300yds passing, 2 TDs, 30+ rush yds​

reaction

You suck Carr!!!

VY - 5yds passing, 2 INTs, 40+ rush yds w/ 2 fumbles

reaction

VY is God's gift to football....yeah​


That is what I was looking for
 
jerek said:
Wow, the double standard is alive and well.

I too can see the strong correlation between NFL success, watching film at home, and murder charges. What were we thinking about? It's been there all along.

It's called "football psychology." Urban Dictionary describes it as:

To play a football player no matter how bad a criminal offense the player committed. This was a strategy started by Tom Osborne at the University of Nebraska. It has since caught on by other programs though and is a common way to work out social problems and a troubled past of football players.
 
oso said:
The U is known for having the most bad-*** workout rooms around, and obviously, competing with players of equal or greater talent is great for Dre. But, I think Dre and Edge should be in their respective training camps. This is not a BS year. New coach, new system, and we need to launch out of a cannon a couple of balls at Dre so that he can catch better. It seemed to work his second year, when he went to the Pro Bowl. Dre does not play with the University of Miami anymore. He plays with Houston and needs to practice in Houston.

Oops - I assume these players will be at all the required stuff: coaches sessions, training camps, next week's workouts, etc. I don't mean to imply they slack in that area.

I meant workouts as shown in the article where no one is required to be there. Carr is working with some of his receivers, but not all of them. If this is expected of Carr, what about everyone else, especially other high dollar players?

By the way, I didn't mention Dre did I? I just used the U as an example. :spy:
 
Runner said:
Oops - I assume these players will be at all the required stuff: coaches sessions, training camps, next week's workouts, etc. I don't mean to imply they slack in that area.

I meant workouts as shown in the article where no one is required to be there. Carr is working with some of his receivers, but not all of them. If this is expected of Carr, what about everyone else, especially other high dollar players?

By the way, I didn't mention Dre did I? I just used the U as an example. :spy:

I'm not trying to say that Dre isn't showing up at the required meetings. I'm sure he is. And you won't hear me calling him a slacker. But when it comes to Dre and Edge going to the "U" for winter workouts (He, Edge, and a few others are pretty infamous for that, so that's why I assumed you meant him), they need to be with their respective teams. Edge has a new team and new QB. Dre has a new coaching staff/system, and needs to work on catching some balls as well as perfect pick-up games of basketball with other skill players.
 
oso said:
I'm not trying to say that Dre isn't showing up at the required meetings. I'm sure he is. And you won't hear me calling him a slacker. But when it comes to Dre and Edge going to the "U" for winter workouts (He, Edge, and a few others are pretty infamous for that, so that's why I assumed you meant him), they need to be with their respective teams. Edge has a new team and new QB. Dre has a new coaching staff/system, and needs to work on catching some balls as well as perfect pick-up games of basketball with other skill players.

I've commented on this before and last year AJ and Carr spent some time together, but not that much. I also stated given the coaching staff I wasn't so certain that it wasn't a bad thing that he spent time at the U. He probably learned more there than he did in Houston.

However, for a vaunted relationship between receiver and qb, like manning-harrison, you have to spend a lot of time together in order to have the magic of that kind of relationship. Despite what some think it can not be done in TC. It requires a huge number of off time hourse dedicated to nothing more than throwing and throwing and throwing. You have to know what each other is thinking like the back of your hand. I have always been critical of that part of AJ's game. Now Carr, can't leave and go to the U, so it will be up to AJ to come to Carr. That's a reality of the new coaches and the new system.

In year 2 AJ made a lot of progress at the U, but last year he lost it. Of course so did the whole team. Just as Carr and DD and everyone else is going to be measured so is AJ. It looked like AJ did some pouting last year, but we will never know for certain. I hope that was not the case. I continue to say that AJ is not a number 1 go to receiver at this stage of his career and I don't know whether he will ever be because of his hands. He is a very good receiver with a lot of talent, but his hands remain a question. Rice dropped a lot of balls early in his career, but once he got over it it was Katty bar the door.

I have been wanting to hear from various sources on who was working out together and practicing when it wasn't necessary. Carr has always been a gym freek, so I wanted to hear that he was working with his receivers. The only way this team is going to get better in that area is for them to be on the same page. Carr throws a hard pass and it takes time for receivers to get use to it.

Recievers like Mathis need to work with Carr, because it requires a special timing when someone has that kind of speed. It requires leaning what they can handle and how to get the ball to them. You need to learn how far you can lead them. It's all about timing. Its all about how far in advance you can release the ball and let them go get it. When a receiver like Mathis knows where the ball is going to be thrown, he has a tremendous advantage over the defense.

Do not take lightly that BJ is also one of the receivers working out with Carr. I find that to be very encouraging. Many have pointed out that the TE has been one of the glaring weaknesses of our offense. Any signs of productivity out of BJ and that he will be healthy is a big plus.

Again, I simply remain positive at this point and like a lot of what I see. Of course their are things I don't like, but I'm waiting to see how they are solved. So far they have been solving problems rather than creating them.
 
texan279 said:
Flop of career? The last 2 seasons, Carr has completed more than 60% of his passes and thrown for more TD's than INT's. Considering the horrible coaching/playcalling, lack of offensive weapons, and a non existent offensive line, doesn't really seem that bad to me. Out of the QB's in the NFL last season who played in all 16 games, only 7 completed more than 60% of their passes and threw for more TD's than INT's, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Trent Green, Jake Plummer, and David Carr.

All of those quarterbacks have proven they can win football games!

Carr still hasn't dominated in one game in four years and hasn't pulled a come from behind victory.

Maybe he will start winning, but he is running out of time.
 
There are plenty of targets for practice. From the roster on the Texan home page:

Joppru, Bennie TE
Murphy, Matt TE
Rivers, Marcellus TE
Halterman, Aaron TE
Bruener, Mark TE
Armstrong, Derick WR
Johnson, Andre WR
Starling, Kendrick WR
Morgan, Donovan WR
Mathis, Jerome WR
 
Runner said:
There are plenty of targets for practice. From the roster on the Texan home page:

Joppru, Bennie TE
Murphy, Matt TE
Rivers, Marcellus TE
Halterman, Aaron TE
Bruener, Mark TE
Armstrong, Derick WR
Johnson, Andre WR
Starling, Kendrick WR
Morgan, Donovan WR
Mathis, Jerome WR

Yes, that's true, but I bet Kubiak would say its up to them to show up. I wonder if there was a little bit of a message in that article as well.....
 
Runner said:
I knew it was sarcasm. Just adding additional info.

True, but strangely enough there is a lot of truth in what you said. I would think there would be guys out there busting you know what knowing that there are openings. Doesn't seem to be happening right, now. Remember, what Kubiak has said? I would think guys are being evaluated on how interested they are........
 
hollywood_texan said:
All of those quarterbacks have proven they can win football games!

Carr still hasn't dominated in one game in four years and hasn't pulled a come from behind victory.

Maybe he will start winning, but he is running out of time.


So QB's win games by themelves now? I guess even though our defense was ranked dead last in the NFL last season and Carr was sacked for more than 400 yards, he should still be out there leading us to 9-10 wins a season...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
So are you saying that those are the only guys that are better than Carr....???

Did I say that? I just stated what Carr has done the last two seasons and posted the only other QB's who did the same to make a point that his career to this point has not been a flop...
 
texan279 said:
So QB's win games by themelves now? I guess even though our defense was ranked dead last in the NFL last season and Carr was sacked for more than 400 yards, he should still be out there leading us to 9-10 wins a season...

Such a circular arguement when you frame it that way. How will you measure Carr in the next two years? What are your expectations?
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Such a circular arguement when you frame it that way. How will you measure Carr in the next two years? What are your expectations?

I honestly have no idea how he'll perform in the next two seasons. I just think it's a little early to run the guy out of town based on our team's record alone especially with the team that has been built around him and the coaching he has had the last 4 seasons.
 
texan279 said:
especially with the team that has been built around him and the coaching he has had the last 4 seasons.

Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

Carr is an average QB in the NFL so he will make a good bit of money. Hell, Milford Brown is getting $2.5 million a year!!! A tight end(Robert Royal) who averages 7 catches a season is making $2 million a year. This is the NFL today.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

He gets up play after play when he gets pounded. I think that earns him a little respect around the locker room. The guy is tough and has had very little to work with. There are a few players who got freebies this past season b/c no one really excelled outside of Mathis.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

Exactly my point, the only one ripped on here is Carr, no one ripped on AJ for dropping all those passes last season or our defense with their God awful play. And is it his fault for what he is paid? And what exactly has AJ done to deserve to be the highest paid player on the team? Or Todd Wade to be the 3rd highest paid player on the team? Or Robaire Smith to be the 4th highest paid player on the team? Has any of these guys done anything to be worth what they are getting paid? I might be wrong but I thought the extension was still part of Carr's rookie contract, where the extension had to be either 2 or 3 seasons and the pay had to be whatever it is he is making now.
 
wags said:
Carr is an average QB in the NFL so he will make a good bit of money. Hell, Milford Brown is getting $2.5 million a year!!! A tight end(Robert Royal) who averages 7 catches a season is making $2 million a year. This is the NFL today.

I have no problem with us paying him average QB money, but not top dollar on this team.

If you could please elaborate on the correlation between what a TE and G make after the new CBA for different teams and how it effects extending our QB before the CBA it would be rather enlightening.
 
texan279 said:
Exactly my point, the only one ripped on here is Carr, no one ripped on AJ for dropping all those passes last season or our defense with their God awful play. And is it his fault for what he is paid? And what exactly has AJ done to deserve to be the highest paid player on the team? Or Todd Wade to be the 3rd highest paid player on the team? Or Robaire Smith to be the 4th highest paid player on the team? Has any of these guys done anything to be worth what they are getting paid? I might be wrong but I thought the extension was still part of Carr's rookie contract, where the extension had to be either 2 or 3 seasons and the pay had to be whatever it is he is making now.

If it were AJ's option last year, believe me, people would be talking about it.
 
Texans86 said:
He gets up play after play when he gets pounded. I think that earns him a little respect around the locker room. The guy is tough and has had very little to work with. There are a few players who got freebies this past season b/c no one really excelled outside of Mathis.

He gets up play after play. Great so over compensate him for something that comes with the job description. The guy had very little to work with? I would say that the coaches in the past and the other skill position players had little to work with in the QB.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I would say that the coaches in the past and the other skill position players had little to work with in the QB.
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If it were AJ's option last year, believe me, people would be talking about it.

So are you saying the Carr bashing didn't start until it was time for his contract option?
 
Lucky said:
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

Concur.
 
texan279 said:
So are you saying the Carr bashing didn't start until it was time for his contract option?

I can only speak for myself, but I did not want Carr in 2002. But he was our QB and I was willing to see how it unfolded. It was at the end of the 2004 season that my doubts were there and went full tilt last year knowing that it was his option year.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I can only speak for myself, but I did not want Carr in 2002. But he was our QB and I was willing to see how it unfolded. It was at the end of the 2004 season that my doubts were there and went full tilt last year knowing that it was his option year.

So do you think AJ is worth the "jack" he's being paid?
 
Lucky said:
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

...a bunch of them were his fault-could have been avoided-and would have put his #'s in line with other teams:brickwall
 
tsip said:
...a bunch of them were his fault-could have been avoided-and would have put his #'s in line with other teams:brickwall

Ummm, yes quite a few were his fault and even removing those it would have left the Texans with miserable pass coverage.

68 sacks - 20 for Carr gets 48 sacks (pssss, by the way other QB's take unnecessary sacks as well but we will ignore that) and you get 5th worst in the league--I guess you meant in line with other sucky OL teams not in line with even mediocre teams.
 
sprtsfanatic said:
saw the article on the homepage and found it intersting to say the least. Texans Chic has a good point about the reference to Carrs work ethic...so far that doesnt seem to be a problem or an issue...getting to work at 0645 4 times a week for lifting, conditioning, and some practice in the bubble sure doesnt seem like a work ethic issue to me...good things could be ahead for us!

Not bashing but like all of us that needed a kick in the @ss, maybe the rumors were actually true and he is finally deciding to step up. Just saying. I played in Texas H.S ball and we worked just as hard. If I got paid 8 million to talk about my hair I'd probably mix in some early sessions and work my @ss off. That is what happens when I have to go play lawyer every day.:)My problem always has and always will be paying a guy like a S.B. QB when he actually has done nothing. Incentive always works.
 
This is what i am talking about, he is taking heat from you for saying guys are excited for him to succed,finaly, you dont think guys are happy for him, grow up you need to find someone else to cry about.

Cant even have a nice article on someone without some people knocking it down


That is a fluff article to fluff up the fans that all is gravy in the Texans locker room. There are members of this team that have no respect for Carr and his ability to put himself (with FO help) on a pedistal.

Being A 1st Draft Pick with that picks money everyone is being to soft on him. He is top cap taker and plays like a rookie. 4 years to learn now it is crunch time.

If DC turns the corner and amazes me I will eat one of Prestons Hot Wings.
but it will have to be at the last of the games cause those things are brutal and I need positive proof.
 
Joe Texan said:
That is a fluff article to fluff up the fans that all is gravy in the Texans locker room. There are members of this team that have no respect for Carr and his ability to put himself (with FO help) on a pedistal.

Being A 1st Draft Pick with that picks money everyone is being to soft on him. He is top cap taker and plays like a rookie. 4 years to learn now it is crunch time.

If DC turns the corner and amazes me I will eat one of Prestons Hot Wings.
but it will have to be at the last of the games cause those things are brutal and I need positive proof.

AJ is the "top cap taker", and I don't see anyone here dogging on him for dropping all of those passes last season that hit him in the hands...
 
sprtsfanatic said:
saw the article on the homepage and found it intersting to say the least. Texans Chic has a good point about the reference to Carrs work ethic...so far that doesnt seem to be a problem or an issue...getting to work at 0645 4 times a week for lifting, conditioning, and some practice in the bubble sure doesnt seem like a work ethic issue to me...good things could be ahead for us!
This is good, though normal for him. I wanna see what kinda work he's putting into fim study.
 
Big B Texan Fan said:
This is good, though normal for him. I wanna see what kinda work he's putting into fim study.

Ah yes, as it has been "widely reported" that the guy doesn't study film according to the Message Board David Carr Critics' standard.

Can anybody tell me where this rumor of his bad film study practice even came from? "I heard it on the radio" or "someone told me" doesn't count.
 
texan279 said:
So do you think AJ is worth the "jack" he's being paid?

AJ at the very least has an all pro year under his belt after year three. Sure talk about his drop passes, but first please let me know how many there were and how many balls were thrown to him. Moreover, how does that compare to the league.
 
Lucky said:
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

Gaffney and Brown are gone and signed. Both drafted along wth Carr and represent 2 of 11 players on the field which represents 18% of the offensive unit. That is not a trivial percentage in the world of business.
 
jerek said:
Ah yes, as it has been "widely reported" that the guy doesn't study film according to the Message Board David Carr Critics' standard.

Can anybody tell me where this rumor of his bad film study practice even came from? "I heard it on the radio" or "someone told me" doesn't count.

I got it from a friend that works for the Texans...very reliable.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Gaffney and Brown are gone and signed. Both drafted along wth Carr and represent 2 of 11 players on the field which represents 18% of the offensive unit. That is not a trivial percentage in the world of business.
Don't forget that superstar wideout Corey Bradford, who was scooped up by the Lions GM Matt "I've never met a WR I didn't like" Millen. You're up to 27%, now.

Kaiser Toro said:
Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.
Kubiak likes Carr, but didn't care for Gaffney, Brown, or Bradford. You think David was holding them back. I guess will just have to wait till this season to see who was right.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
AJ at the very least has an all pro year under his belt after year three. Sure talk about his drop passes, but first please let me know how many there were and how many balls were thrown to him. Moreover, how does that compare to the league.

So we're paying players based on what they've done in the past now? That about equals the argument some here make about paying Carr based on potential. And I have no idea where to find AJ's dropped pass percentage but I do know he had a catch percentage of 55% last season, compared to Bradford at 52%, Gaffney at 61%, and Armstrong at 75%. Also Steve Smith had a catch percentage of 69% last season, Chad Johnson 63%, Santana Moss 63%, Eddie Kennison 63%, T.J. Houshmandzadeh 68%, Rod Smith 67%, E. Parker 71%, Reggie Wayne 68%, Troy Brown 66%, Eric Moulds 63%, Joe Jurevicius 65%, Derrick Mason 64%. And everyone listed had at least 50 passes thrown to them except for Derrick Armstrong.
 
I think Dre is worth the money. I expect him to look more like the 2004 model since they'll again be playing in a system that they believe in. The general malaise throughout the whole team last year makes it very difficult to judge anyone by their performance.
 
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