bah007
Hall of Fame
My projections:
Pettigrew - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Coffman - late 2nd/early 3rd
Nelson - 3rd
Casey - 3rd
Beckum - late 3rd/early 4th
Ingram - 4th
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With DE-Smith signed, who @ 15?
- Thread starter PhilpW
- Start date
My projections:
Pettigrew - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Coffman - late 2nd/early 3rd
Nelson - 3rd
Casey - 3rd
Beckum - late 3rd/early 4th
Ingram - 4th
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
My gut tells me Pettigrew will be off the board first of all the TEs in either the 20's range or early 2nd just because of how the boards fall for teams. What's the deal with Kansas City and Anthony Gonsalez? I ask because I know not.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I don't think Pettigrew will get out of the first round. He has one really interesting thing going for him and that is blocking. He is a great blocker on the edge, and for a playoff team he provides too much value to pass up in the late first round. He almost becomes another tackle out there blocking on the edge. Any team that runs a stretch play, like the Colts, will value Pettigrew.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Pettigrew shouldn't get out of the first.... Jared Cook would be a very good pick for the cowboys...you would figure a Free Saftey for them ....but 4.5 tight ends don't come down the pike very often.
Ingram has everyting except game film in '08. So it will come down to which group of baracudas like him the most....and who's goint to gamble a third first after they've hit two needs.
MHO. Another guy not on your list...Team like the chiefs...So. Miss TE, Sean Nelson, has the same tools Owen had when he came out....the pancaking of Rey in the senoir bowl practice has him on everyones radar. Long lean guy...going to be a couple of years before he really lights it up ...very high celing though. willing blocker with very soft hands.
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BattleRedToro
Thread Killer
I think there is a good possibility that Ingram is the 3rd or 4th TE picked.
I could also see Cook maybe slipping into the 1st Rd, and possibly even past Pettigrew, whom I'm sure is a 1st Rd pick.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans pick another TE in this draft, perhaps in the 3rd Rd, especially if the Texans trade down and pick up another 3rd Rd pick.
I know everyone says the Texans are set at TE with Daniels, but they forget that when he was in Denver, Kubiak liked to run alot of 2 TE packages, and therefore if the Texans are able to acquire a TE that they feel would fit those packages better than Joel Dreessen, then I think they will.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Earlier this year I had Ayers mocked with him continuously moving up. Now here is my question and why I no longer have him or any DE on my board. We just gave whole bunch of money to start Smith opposite Mario. Is this team strong enough that we can begin to put first round picks at back up? You did not say you would select him in 1st but that is what I read. He would be great value in 2nd but again do we need a back up this high? I am a big fan but if we trade down significantly, is DE backup or FS or LB or CB or Offensive line back up the choice? With last 4 one could argue a #1 draft pick might beat out the incumbant, especially at LB. If Robert Ayers is on our team, I will be pleased. Who knows? Ayers might beat out the projected new starter and then we can start 2nd guessing management again.I hope they don't get involved with Michael Johnson.
If you take any D-line, TRADE DOWN and take Ayers. He's proven that not only is he an end, he can move inside and REALLY cause havoc. He also proved he could pick balls at the combine.
Who else showed something like this? Forget Michael Johnson's 40 time, I think we should pick a beast like this man and allow him to do his thing. Allow him to congregate with the boys we have like demeco, bulman, and really get the gang goin.
You really can't beat a big, pissed off D-lineman especially if he has hands in a division with Peyton? I REALLY HOPE, they trade down.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
So just out of curiosity.....How much does the signing of AS move up the Sack total from 32.....or whatever the int. bar was in 08 how much do they go up in '09 ? Both should go up shouldn't they under your thoughts....We've got AS, we're canging schemes, therefore...we shouldn't take either a linebacker nor a DE until later ? Is that it ? In As you trust...there is no need to bring in any more talent?
Got guys like Elerby and McRath on the board....probably go late. But do you want either of thses two guys starting for you come September ? There are only so many of these guys on the board who can bring some pass rush....and be creditable contributors for '09. Blink and they are gone.
Got guys like Elerby and McRath on the board....probably go late. But do you want either of thses two guys starting for you come September ? There are only so many of these guys on the board who can bring some pass rush....and be creditable contributors for '09. Blink and they are gone.
ThruThick&Thin
learning2forum
I suppose he would appear as a backup on paper, However I propose taking a man like Ayers due to the fact that we can take out Akoye or Johnson or even Bulman. Not only can we keep our DT's fresh, we can stunt much like Tennessee and other teams do by swapping our big hogs up front into different spots.
I really like Ayers because of his Diversity, and I think we shouldn't feel as if we have to have this guy be a dedicated DE. By adding him, we add a stout kid who can stuff the run and even slip back and hide in some shallow coverage.
A LB would make sense to most madden players because they have to have 4 Dline and 3 LB make up their front 7, but I really think we should trade down.
Maybe not go Ayers, but trade down~~~
I really like Ayers because of his Diversity, and I think we shouldn't feel as if we have to have this guy be a dedicated DE. By adding him, we add a stout kid who can stuff the run and even slip back and hide in some shallow coverage.
A LB would make sense to most madden players because they have to have 4 Dline and 3 LB make up their front 7, but I really think we should trade down.
Maybe not go Ayers, but trade down~~~
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
The more I think about players worthy of the 15th pick the more I pray Raji slips to us.
QB - No way
WR - No way
RB - No way
TE - No way
OT - Highly doubtful
DE - Highly doubtful
MLB - No way
OLB - Good chance, but at 15? Cushing scares the crap out of me. Too early for Mathews.
SS - Possibility, but who?
CB - Good chance, but again, who?
DT - Possibility, but is anyone other than Raji worth the 15th? Perry? Brace?
I think this might be the 1st draft that I haven't a clue of who we might target in the 1st round. IMO, if we end up stuck with the 15th we're going to end up reaching.
QB - No way
WR - No way
RB - No way
TE - No way
OT - Highly doubtful
DE - Highly doubtful
MLB - No way
OLB - Good chance, but at 15? Cushing scares the crap out of me. Too early for Mathews.
SS - Possibility, but who?
CB - Good chance, but again, who?
DT - Possibility, but is anyone other than Raji worth the 15th? Perry? Brace?
I think this might be the 1st draft that I haven't a clue of who we might target in the 1st round. IMO, if we end up stuck with the 15th we're going to end up reaching.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I'll respond 'though I am unsure you addressed this to me. We can use a great player in draft @ every position including QB, but is that what we should do? Each of us have opinions on what we see as strengths & weaknesses. For me, I try to listen to what team officials have said and how that lines up with what I see. This helps to rule out smoke screens thrown up by team on what they will do.
The need for another DE across from Mario was not about the new DE getting huge sack numbers, rather to put pressure on QB and take pressure off Williams. If SMith gets 8 sacks and Mario gets his, fantastic. If Smith gets 4 sacks but pressures the QB into mistakes or allows Mario to drastically increase his total, SMith earns his $. I do not see LB, DE or CB as a need position in 1st round. If you or others do, cool.
On my new mock (after Smith), I want Raji in 1st with Daniel Holtzman LB with the Sage 4th. If no Raji and we get a trade down, I am open to a LB depending on who else is available.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I really like Ayers but only as a DE not Dt to replace any of our guys. He is only 272 and can add a few but i do not see him beating out either TJ or Okoye. His speed and strength as a DE can get him to QB but not serve him well @ tackle.I suppose he would appear as a backup on paper, However I propose taking a man like Ayers due to the fact that we can take out Akoye or Johnson or even Bulman. Not only can we keep our DT's fresh, we can stunt much like Tennessee and other teams do by swapping our big hogs up front into different spots.
I really like Ayers because of his Diversity, and I think we shouldn't feel as if we have to have this guy be a dedicated DE. By adding him, we add a stout kid who can stuff the run and even slip back and hide in some shallow coverage.
A LB would make sense to most madden players because they have to have 4 Dline and 3 LB make up their front 7, but I really think we should trade down.
Maybe not go Ayers, but trade down~~~
badboy
Hall of Fame
Well said and has been my stance for long time. Jenkins, Orakpo and Raji have all been mentioned as possibly falling and if there, we grab either. IMO Raji, Jenkins and then Orakpo. I am concerned we may be forced to over draft or get stuck with a trade down that is not equitable to the Duane Brown trade.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
So which DT do you cut come September ?
If they are fortunate enough to have a chance at Orakpo....whether he fits or not....I'll be surprised if they pass on the guy. The Signing of AS was a beginning in my book. Not the end. between the two....eleven sacks ? That's champioship range. 'Course you could be correct and they're slumming for 9-7 and saving thier contracts..?
I will be very interesting watching Jenkins...at his speed, covering Reggie Wayne from the corner back position twice a year . all the bitching about Faggins the last four years and you guys want to go out pell mell and draft another one ?
bah007
Hall of Fame
So Jenkins runs a 4.53 and he goes from being the undisputed #1 CB to being as bad as Faggins?
Looks like someone is placing just a little bit too much stock in the 40 yd dash. You've probably seen some tape of him. I have to. That's what I'm going by.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1134748&postcount=7
they call that there thingy reaching...4.53 is pretty good....for a safety. Faster in the back seven, not slower.
bah007
Hall of Fame
So Jenkins looks great on tape and runs a 4.53 and he is Faggins?
Davis looks poor on tape and runs a 4.49. He must not even be NFL material right?
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Easy solution there bah....don't take one in the first round..... You can always coach up a knuckle head.....they don't put speed pills in bottles yet. You're drafting a guy who on the next level is already at his ceiling and has no where to go but down. do I think he was a great college player sure...do I think he is going to get killed locked one on one with Reggi Wayne or Hines Ward for that matter....absloutely.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Wow ! Where to begin?" Let's start with Jenkins
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=87746&SPID=10408&DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLID=1059260&Q_SEASON=2008TIMED AT 4.35.
Everyone at all positions ran slower than expected. For two years at the end of the college season, Jenkins was consider the leading CB. Sure some receivers may blow by him as they did Dunta and Reeves. How do our current CBs match up with Wayne? I think you are the only one that will call Jenkins another Faggins.
If we get Raji or Brace, Zgonina is gone and we can put the least perfomring DT in TC on IR such as DelJuan Robinson. I have lost faith in TJ and young or not Okoye needs to step it up as is his 3rd year. I think he will if he remains healthy. Raji or Brace, Okoye, TJ, Okam are the 4 DTs.
I am ok with another DE on day one such as Orakpo or Ayers, I just have my board set up differently. If we got Raji @ 15 or even Brace later in 1st and picked Ayers in 2nd, I am ok as lon as we get a RB and ILB day 2.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I don't think Zgonina has been retained. No need to cut any DTs.
Personally, the way things are going with the pro days and from what I've read about the Combine 40 times, I'm about ready to discard the Combine results.
Here are a few notable players that have had their pro days. Has anyone ever seen such a large difference between the 2? I do understand players will be faster and more comfortable on their own turf, but damn.
Matt Shaughnessy DE - Combine = 4.91 Pro day = 4.86
William Moore S - Combine = 4.53 Pro day = 4.4
Rashad Jennings RB - Combine = 4.61 Pro day = 4.52
Michael Bennett DE - Combine = 5.02 Pro day = 4.86
Mike Goodson RB - Combine = 4.54 Pro day = 4.43
Screw the Combine 40
My concern as well, but after 15 the following teams don't really have a QB to speak of:Jets(17), Bears(18), Bucs(19), Lions(20). If either Matthews or Sanchez is available at 15, we may get some interesting offers for that spot.
ubecool454
Veteran
I personally think that Matthews is a reach. He won't beat out Adibi or a healthy Diles. I just hope we don't even go the LB route in the first because, I still feel we need another young athletic speedy pass rusher. I like Maybin and Everette Brown and Orakpo but I think Orakpo and Brown will be gone by the time we pick.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I'm thinking the same but better would be to rotatate him out on third and longs and slip the back up guys in and let them earn their oats. Keep those twenty seven year old legs fresh all the way till the end of December.
Orakpo is a consensus top five by all the gurus. Seen him fall close to us once. Not good for the home town guy. Would love to have him on the squad.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Hmmm, so just how fast would that make the wide receivers and the linebackers ? Inquiring minds wish to know....
NFL is going to love that. Their equipment was shot at the combine...ut ooh.
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threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
well in that case just take Lumas or Jenkins and be done with it. safe picks....give you some production.
so, since the clocks were broken at the combine, and we can now throw out those numbers, do you like Maybin better at 235 or 250 ? inquiring minds wish to know.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I don't really like Maybin for our team. He just doesn't fit anywhere IMO. I'd rather have Brown if I am going for an undersized DE. I don't really consider Orakpo to be undersized but if he is there I am interested in him as well.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I agree 100%. Don't really see an OLB worth the #15 pick and I am not a fan of Clay Matthews or Brian Cushing.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I'm kind of confused here pete. So you're suggesting we take Brown or Orakpo, if available, play them on the DL and then rotate them OUT in passing situations? So what back ups do you want in there on 3rd and longs? I'm not so sure their strong points are defending against the run. So you want to take their primary strength (pass rushing) and not use it by keeping them on the sidelines? Inquiring minds wish to know.
badboy
Hall of Fame
We will just trade Sage to them for a 2nd round pick.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I heard on some report that it was the new field they were running on.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
hes talking about taking antonio smith out on 3rd and long for bulman etc ('27 yr old legs').. apparently you need to be rested if you're over 25
JayCee
Waterboy
this guy has us taking Wells....
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f11fb9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
although this has 0% of happening, i'll be pretty disappointed if we did this.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f11fb9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
although this has 0% of happening, i'll be pretty disappointed if we did this.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
the wrs ran on the same field the cbs did
I was thinking one of those teams may want to trade up to our spot at 15.
If we had to choose between DE-Aaron Maybin, OLB-Brian Cushing & CB-Malcolm Jenkins at #15 who would be the best value choice? I think if CB-Malcolm Jenkins fell to #15 I think that we have to solidify our secondary because Jacques Reeves is horrible and Dunta Robinson is still angry about being franchised.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
its apparently going to be next to impossible to agree on just one player who will- one, be available? two fill our most pressing need? three, bpa?
Well if it makes you feel any better, it's really only two things, since if they qualify on the third thing, it's a pretty good bet they'll qualify on the first thing.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I don't think Maybin is even in the conversation.
I don't care about Dunta being angry. That's just bidness.
I think it would be a tough call between Jenkins and Cushing but I think I'd go Jenkins. I think he has a higher value.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I have Jenkins #9 on my board and Cushing is #13.
I agree Maybin wouldn't even be in the picture. I have him at #24. I like him, but his bust potential is through the roof I think.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
He asked specifically about Orkapo and Brown. and what I was trying to post: the only way we get Orakpo is by spending a whole lot of draft capitol....Highly unlikely
If it is Brown....I would think that for what they paid for Antoinio Smith...Antionio is your starter. Having Brown rotating with Smith wouldn't be a bad thing. Neither would Sidbury......or Corner Barwin....Or English... or Maybin....at 235 to 240. Film says Maybin still has the best first step in the class.
You can always drop Antonio inside on third and long. My thought on that is the back ups, like Bulman, made enough of a jump last year....you wouldn't be losing a lot by taking Smith out for a blow on third and long situations. Bringing in Everett Brown (or who ever) with Bulman playing inside on the long situations.
All of this assumes that Brown will fall, which he won't....and we get an offer for the fifteen so we can move back for the others. Which would make the gamble on any of the others more palatable. Just going on what they did with Duane last year....they monkeyed with it for seven years and then finally bang the hole last year.
I haven't given up hope on one of the first step guys...stuborn I guess. Gotta find eight more sacks from some where.
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I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. And it was cogent enough to give you rep. Despite your relentless phrase, "bang the hole".
I do not believe that Antonio Smith is an Anthony Weaver clone. Because I think Smith can play, and Weaver cannot. But, Smith isn't going to give the Texans a pass rush off the edge. The Texans still need that.
Fortunately, this draft has a plethora of DE/OLB hybrids that can be found in practically every round. I wouldn't mind seeing the Texans take 2 in this draft. Like the "Wildcat" was to NFL offenses in '08, I see the blurring of traditional defensive fronts with the use of multiple hybrid defenders to be the big trend in '09.
And you will see teams go to no huddle to keep these guys on the sidelines rendering them useless.
If the offense makes substitutions in a no huddle, the defense must be allowed the time to make their changes. That was from a rule interpretation by the head of officiating, a couple of seasons ago. If an offense wants to stay in a base package, the defense will likely do the same.
I thought you were speaking of teams bringing in special packages in certain situations, like a DL of speedy hybrids to rush the passer in passing situations. I was just saying that teams would counter succesfull schemes like that by going no huddle to keep them off the feild. Not sure I understand what you are saying.
If offenses wish to go no huddle to hinder defensive substitutions, they will have to go with the 11 they have on the field. Going no huddle will curtail special defensive packages, but at the cost of limiting the offense's flexibility.
rollinstone18
let it bleed
I'm hoping Jenkins falls to us. He'd be a great value pick, whether he plays CB or FS.
Best case senario is a trade down from 15 to 25. Last year we did this & got a 3rd & a 6th
Rd1 Barwin
Rd2 Sidbury
Rd3 Baker
Rd3 Wood
Rd4 Hamlin
Rd4 A. Brown
Rd1 Barwin
Rd2 Sidbury
Rd3 Baker
Rd3 Wood
Rd4 Hamlin
Rd4 A. Brown
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Could Larry English play in a 4-3?
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I'm thinking here of what ships carpenters do when the boat springs a leak....now as to what inference you take from it.... will say I've been married to the same woman since 1984.