Williams first practice, "good job"

[Runner]

I know this isn't about Mario, but what did our O-line look like today?

I think it is pretty early to make real value judgements yet, seeing as they weren't in pads and each unit is learning their new system and each player his specific responsibilities.

I talked to a player very briefly this evening, and he said this first practice was much better than last year's practices, which confirms what most people suspected.

Mario saw a TE on the RDE side as well. Get used to seeing TE's and fullbacks involved more than ever.

This is the type of stuff I think will be interesting the next few weeks. I think these workouts will give us some strong indications what our revamped offensive and defensive playbooks will look like, even though the plays will be limited as they learn.

 

[mexican_texan]

Also a Terrence Murphy sighting today on the sideline. Expect a signing soon.

So he's been cleared to play? I thought he broke his neck or some part of his vertabrae last season.

 

[aj.]

what did our O-line look like today

L to R same as previously reported

Wand - Pitts - Flanagan - McKinney - Wiegert

Flanagan has some well worn knees... to put it nicely...

Hodgdon was missing counts all day long. Lots of miscommunication on snaps. It was the first day of practice - I would expect mass confusion.

 

[aj.]

So he's been cleared to play? I thought he broke his neck or some part of his vertabrae last season.

He has that spinal stenosis thing going on. Narrowing of the spinal canal in the neck - like Frank Bush of the old Oilers who almost became our co defensive coordinator. I think he has medical clearance (not sure) but he has increased risk for serious injury.

 

[ledzeppelin229]

The problem with trying to judge our OL right now is the common prediction that we'll have one of the strongest and deepest DLs in the league (or should). So which way is it gonna be? It's pretty hard to jump for joy at either one being dominated, but I don't really want to see mediocre reports of play either as a way of "balancing out" domination from both sides.

So can the DL be slowed down and make us feel better about the OL? Can the OL be beaten like the redheaded stepchild and just attribute it to the new 4 man DL?

 

[Runner]

It was the first day of practice - I would expect mass confusion.

Thanks for that - we are so thirsty for knowledge around here we need to heed this note of caution.

 

[Runner]

I didn't mean to pour water on a hopping thread...

 

[aj.]

Not to prolong this anymore, but they aren't going to play Mario at weakside and Peek at strongside.

Good lord - how about a shred of cred. First you have me mistaking Mario for Peek and now this. I was simply clarifying that the Chronicle didn't specify where Peek was going to play (just defensive end). He can barely play weakside LB against the run so I doubt we see him at strongside DE any time soon. I assume we'll see Peek on the weakside on passing downs - periodically and depending on the situation - and Mario can and will be moved around. otw Weaver at LDE and Mario at RDE will be common on 1-2 downs just like it was during crunch time today. As was stated before, Weaver is also flexible inside and out. I like our DL this year. It will be a strength of the team. I don't see TJ getting lost in this system. I see him thriving.

 

[mexican_texan]

The Chronicle was already proved wrong today, saying Wong wasn't there.

 

[aj.]

Wong was jogging early on. Then went in for a wrap and came back out to watch. Or maybe that was Kris Brown.

DD worries me. I hawked him as he was being interviewed by Mark Berman and he was very cautious with his answers. He's definitley not participating in any of the OTA or mini-camp activity.

 

[Runner]

Good lord - how about a shred of cred. First you have me mistaking Mario for Peek and now this. I was simply clarifying that the Chronicle didn't specify where Peek was going to play (just defensive end). He can barely play weakside against the run so I doubt we see him on the strongside any time soon. I assume we'll see Peek on the weakside on passing downs - periodically and depending on the situation - and Mario can and will be moved around. otw Weaver at LDE and Mario at RDE will be common on 1-2 downs just like it was during crunch time today.

I may regret adding to this, but to quote a certain basketball player "it was practice".

At one time, they may have run a series of plays of a specific situation (i.e. 5 plays in a row simulationg 3rd and long). At another time a series simulating something else. They might switch the TE from the right side to the left side. Depending on what they were practicing when someone was watching, different conclusions could be reached.



For the record, I think that aj (and most people) can tell the difference between Williams and Peak.

 

[Runner]

a) Wong was jogging early on. Then went in for a wrap and came back out to watch. Or maybe that was Kris Brown.

b) DD worries me. I hawked him as he was being interviewed by Mark Berman and he was very cautious with his answers. He's definitley not participating in any of the OTA or mini-camp activity.

a) good one. lol

b) wow - minicamp is still a little bit away too. Hopefully he's ready for training camp.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I may regret adding to this, but to quote a certain basketball player "it was practice".

Iverson: "If I can't practice, I can't practice. It is as simple as that. It ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about practice. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're talking about practice. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it's my last but we're talking about practice man. How silly is that?

Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're talking about practice man. (laughter from the media crowd) We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you've seen me play right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about practice right now. (more laughter)

 

[aj.]

DD made it sound like they were going to bring him along real slow. I got the impression that he wouldn't be allowed to go full speed until training camp, i.e., late July (only two months and change away - and he just had the scope in January.

 

[Texansbacker]

A picture of Dominick Davis too I think.

 

[Runner]

Iverson: ...

Darn - it seems I misquoted him. Talk about a lazy post - I could have looked that up! I should change my post to "we're talking about practice".

Or maybe I should have said paraphrase rather than quote.

Opinions?

 

[Runner]

DD made it sound like they were going to bring him along real slow. I got the impression that he wouldn't be allowed to go full speed until training camp, i.e., late July (only two months and change away - and he just had the scope in January.

I guess it just seems like forever since January.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Darn - it seems I misquoted him. Talk about a lazy post - I could have looked that up! I should change my post to "we're talking about practice".

Or maybe I should have said paraphrase rather than quote.

Opinions?

Don't be hard on yourself, we're just talking about practice.

 

[aj.]

One of my earlier comments was related to a fairly nasty fight today between Flanagan and Robiare. Lot's of mofos flying as both rolled on the ground. Kubiak was not pleased.

 

[mexican_texan]

Don't be hard on yourself, we're just talking about practice.

Practice? You want to talk about practice? It's just practice.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

One of my earlier comments was related to a fairly nasty fight today between Flanagan and Robiare. Lot's of mofos flying as both rolled on the ground. Kubiak was not pleased.

Why are Aggies always in the mix when it comes to mofos?

That is my last grasp at high brow humor tonight. The crickets have been heard.

 

[F-minus67]

Does it really matter where Mario plays, just as long as he is good where it is?

 

[Davis37]

That artical has some good news and bad news at the same time IMO. Good news is that Mario looked good, as he was stopping alot of plays... On the other hand that is horrible news because he was going up against our 1st string OL. If a rookie DE can stop our plays, think of what is going to happen to Carr when the real season begins. As I said before, good news and bad news. Hopefully Mike Sherman can make us a decent OL this year.

 

[kfranco_utexas]

That artical has some good news and bad news at the same time IMO. Good news is that Mario looked good, as he was stopping alot of plays... On the other hand that is horrible news because he was going up against our 1st string OL. If a rookie DE can stop our plays, think of what is going to happen to Carr when the real season begins. As I said before, good news and bad news. Hopefully Mike Sherman can make us a decent OL this year.

It's Ok...Remember he is a freak.. The Texans wont face many of those 6'7 290 plus DE.

 

[bckey]

AJ. I appreciate the information.

 

[Runner]

That artical has some good news and bad news at the same time IMO. Good news is that Mario looked good, as he was stopping alot of plays... On the other hand that is horrible news because he was going up against our 1st string OL. If a rookie DE can stop our plays, think of what is going to happen to Carr when the real season begins. As I said before, good news and bad news. Hopefully Mike Sherman can make us a decent OL this year.

I think it is pretty early to make real value judgements yet, seeing as they weren't in pads and each unit is learning their new system and each player his specific responsibilities.

The offense takes longer to get going then the defensive line too. The individual D-lineman can just be aggressive, the OL has to coordinate more with each other.

 

[Cjeremy635]

I have read the discussion about who M. Williams lined up against in practice and there seems to be some confusion. I wasn't there but on the news last night it showed him going up agaisnt Weigert (sp?). Williams was taken to the ground and looks like he got handled pretty good. I know that it was only one clip and probably didn't give a good indication of how he did in the whole practice. I think it's good for him to not dominate our O-line right off the bat. That would be an ego boost for him and a negative one for our O-line. I think that it's a good sign that he knows he has a lot to learn and is willing to put in the extra work to be a superb player. I can't wait till September...

 

[BigBull17]

Sounds like our DLine gave them some decent hassles but they still looked ok. I'm sure it will be pretty hard to get much of a good reading on them until later into mini camps/training camp when they go full pads etc. and the players can really go out and hit each other.



I don't plan on TJ starting, although he should be a regular part of the rotation. I'm not sure how much value should be placed in being named a "starter" as our defense can and should use a bunch of different looks. A lot of his PT will depend on whether they primarily use Weaver as a DT with Mario and Peek at DEs (TJ won't play over both Payne and Robaire in that instance) vs. Weaver and Mario playing DEs, leaving Payne, Robaire, and TJ to rotate at the two DTs. Either way, I don't think TJ will be on the field for more than 35-40% of the plays, I don't think he's good enough yet or shown enough talent/work ethic to earn that kind of PT, and I'm not sure it will happen with Payne, Robaire, and somewhat Weaver in front of him for now.



Not to prolong this anymore, but they aren't going to play Mario at weakside and Peek at strongside. Today Mario and Peek were both on the field together the majority of the time with Mario at strongside and Peek at weakside, but I'm sure Mario will see a lot of time at weakside with Weaver at strongside throughout the year.

They are gonna have alot of versatility with our front seven. Wih them putting in a 5-2 that just adds to it. You could put Mario out at the LB position up on the LOS and have Weaver and maybe TJ at DE in a run stuffing set up. On 3rd and longs, TJ will probubly sub in for Payne to rush the passer. I just love the versatility I am hearing about.

 

[dalemurphy]

They are gonna have alot of versatility with our front seven. Wih them putting in a 5-2 that just adds to it. You could put Mario out at the LB position up on the LOS and have Weaver and maybe TJ at DE in a run stuffing set up. On 3rd and longs, TJ will probubly sub in for Payne to rush the passer. I just love the versatility I am hearing about.

3rd and longs could see a five man line with TJ, Weaver, Mario inside the tackles and two of Peek, Babin, Kalu on the outside. It is difficult to imagine the defense not getting pressure on the QB in a scenario like that. It will be a welcome sight after suffering through so many failure on 3rd and long the past two seasons.

 

[titan hater]

So whats the timeframe we should anticipate Mario really starting to take hold in the NFL?? I am sure we all are hoping that he gets a real quick start in this league. I know DE's typically take a year or two before they really start to produce (hopefully the case for TJ).

Peppers had 12 sacks his rookie year, and Freeny had 13.

So I guess I can go ahead and expect quite a bit out of Mario his first year?? That would be just fine with me!

Frankly, I would take 0 sacks from him as long as it takes a OT, TE, and a RB to block him...and someone else gets the sack. I just want to see some wins this year...I want to see teams game plan against him...That is the mark of great D-Lineman...

 

[TexanAddict]

Dunta on Mario:
“He’s a big dude,” Robinson said. “I didn’t want to stand too close beside him because I am already a small dude. He makes me look like Chris McKenzie.”
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2592

Probably the funniest quote I've read from practice yet! Wonder what McKenzie feels like standing next to him?

 

[Bullpen Drew]

sounds like this pick is going to work out!

 

[Runner]

Not that is was really a mystery, but...

During practice, they've been using the tight end more evenly on both sides of the formation, rather than predominately on the offensive right side. Therefore, Williams has been getting action against both the right and left tackles as he keeps to the strong side.

 

[aj.]

I almost threw that out there last night -- the post was in the queue and ready to submit, but for some reason I said screw it.

 

[Runner]

I almost threw that out there last night -- the post was in the queue and ready to submit, but for some reason I said screw it.

The strong side not be fixed in space seemed the obvious answer to the dilemna last night, but I didn't want to say anything because I didn't know for sure then.

It's funny how some of the little things blow up way out of proportion sometimes.

 

[aj.]

The strong side not fixed in space

I had recalled seeing Putz coming off Wand's left shoulder during the conversation. He would chip and seek a zone where the LB had vacated - and was a frequent target.

What some people were missing is that strong sde is not always the right side of the offense - at least in Kubiak's offense - hence Mario lining up 'strongside' at RDE against LT Seth Wand and a TE. If one day of practice against his own offense is a clue, where Mario lines up will ultimately be driven by the opponent's offensive set.

I figured it was too much trouble to continue.....None of this is all that important on May 16.

 

[Runner]

I had recalled seeing Putz coming off Wand's left shoulder but all he would do is chip and run to a zone where the LB had vacated. None of this is all that important on May 16.

Very true. Some posters have already noted concern that Mario is "handling" the offensive line.

a) It's May 16
b) They are wearing helmets, jerseys, and shorts
c) They aren't going full speed; they are working technique, balance, and stuff as well as learning the system

I do like watching the process as they bring everything together though.

 

[slamdunc]

Mario on strong side makes perfect sense. I feel Babin/Peek would just get crushed against the run with a tackle TE combo (if they play on a non-pass situation). The only problem with this is it will somewhat difficult for the casual fan to judge Mario's performance accurately. If he has, let's say less than 10 sacks, some casual fans will freak out. In reality, if he gets 9 for example and the other side goes off or the run game is minimized, it will be due to his presence in large part. Nothing you will see in the box score though.

I would expect Greenwood to make plays in space at weakside backer. He had very productive numbers as a WIL in Miami.

 

[slamdunc]

AJ you know I am a decent fan of your column and most of your views, but on this one Mork is all over it. I was at the practice and eventhough Mario did line up as you say for several plays he played LDE most of the time. They set up several times in a 5-2 or 4-3under set with Orr coming down which caused serious problems for our line and they switched Orr and Greenwood depending on some coverage situations.

Peek did use Wand repeatedly though and he is yoked from an offseason of working out, but I doubt you would mix up a 6-2.5 guy and a 6-7 guy. Eventhough some uneducated white folk would say we all look alike. hahaha that is a joke people so dont get your panties in a bunch.

Coach --
Can you elaborate on a 4-3 over or 4-3 under set as opposed to a base 4-3? I am unfamiliar with those. Assumption is that it has to do with gaps on the DL though.
THANKS!

 

[hollywood_texan]

Who cares if he gets the sack or bunch of sacks? What matters is stopping drives, sacking the QB, and creating turnovers. Defense is a team thing with important schemes.

As long as he is the important factor in creating that for our defense and the defense is top 8 or so, he should be worth the money.

Great example is Ray Lewis, he was such a monster because of his down lineman during that Super Bowl, which freed him up.

 

[aj.]

Not to answer for Coach, but over and under basically describes the line shift. Over is a shift to the strong side and under is a shift to the weak side. There are other details like gap assignments and techniques and how/where the LB fills in to complement the shift but that's the basic meaning of over/under.

 

[MorKnolle]

Not that is was really a mystery, but...

During practice, they've been using the tight end more evenly on both sides of the formation, rather than predominately on the offensive right side. Therefore, Williams has been getting action against both the right and left tackles as he keeps to the strong side.

Yes you are correct on that, Mario stayed on the strongside of the formations at all times, not necessarily always at LE, and he and Peek were still in together on all of the 1st team plays. They also switched the LBers around too depending on which side the TE lined up on, as they always kept Orr on ths strongside with Mario and Greenwood on the weakside, and Orr more often than not was brought up along the LOS outside of Mario to form a 5-2 formation to look something like this if the TE is on the right side of the OLine:

....TE....RT....RG....C....LG....LT
SLB....SDE.....DT1...DT2........WDE
.............MLB.....WLB

or like this if the TE is on the left side of the OLine:

....RT....RG....C....LG....LT....TE
..WDE......DT2...DT1....SDE....SLB
.................WLB....MLB

1st team positions for the majority of the time:
WDE: Antwan Peek
DT1: Anthony Weaver
DT2: Seth Payne/Robaire Smith (usually lined up basically right on the center)
SDE: Mario Williams
SLB: Shantee Orr (will pass rush sometimes or else go one-on-one with TE against pass, adds another player on the line to help contain runs)
MLB: Wali Rainer (seems as though Cowart is injured becuase he hasn't practiced yet)
WLB: Morlon Greenwood

2nd team positions:
WDE: Jason Babin
DT: Robaire Smith/Seth Payne
DT: Travis Johnson
SDE: N.D. Kalu
SLB: Charlie Anderson
MLB: Terry Pierce
WLB: DeMeco Ryans

Coach --
Can you elaborate on a 4-3 over or 4-3 under set as opposed to a base 4-3? I am unfamiliar with those. Assumption is that it has to do with gaps on the DL though.
THANKS!

See my above rough diagrams of what a 4-3 over/under is vs. a base 4-3

On a side note that was previously asked, the OLine has looked pretty solid thusfar and it sounds like they have a pretty good group for Kubiak's scheme that should be solid once everyone has the system/playbook down, and it sounds like both Winston and Spencer have looked pretty good so far and should be ready to start in 07 if not later this year. It also sounds like our DLine has looked real nice so far, has disrupted many offensive plays and definitely looks like the strength of our defense, granted they aren't in full pads yet so that changes things a little. Sounds like Petey hasn't done overly well against Johnson/Moulds, hopefully he or Buchanon will step up or else they will be able to find a more capable replacement either already on the team or still out there in free agency (maybe Ty Law if he's cheap or grab someone after June 1 cuts or after final roster cuts). The front 7 will help the DBs look a lot better than last year, but if you have a consistently weak link back there and the QB has an easy out when he gets pressured then the defense will suffer for it.

 

[Texans_Chick]

This is a fabu thread. Best in a long time.

So, for you eyewitnessers. What the heck were Jason Babin and Travis Johnson doing?

And what is the most obscure thing that you haven't mentioned on the MB yet, but those of us who are wanting table scraps would want to hear about.

 

[MorKnolle]

This is a fabu thread. Best in a long time.

So, for you eyewitnessers. What the heck were Jason Babin and Travis Johnson doing?

And what is the most obscure thing that you haven't mentioned on the MB yet, but those of us who are wanting table scraps would want to hear about.

Babin and TJ have both been in on the 2nd string defense, Babin mainly as strongside DE (I doubt he sees much PT during the season with Mario and Weaver ahead of him at this position and Peek/Mario ahead of him at weakside), and I'm not sure how much TJ will see the field with Payne and Robaire ahead of him (both playing well so far) and Weaver apparently getting a decent amount of time at DT as well.

A couple players I don't expect to make the final roster:
Todd Wade (likely a June 1 cut)
Dave Ragone (I think Quinton Porter will be our 3rd QB over him)
DaShon Polk (been getting limited action with 3rd string defense and Wong isn't back yet either)

Sounds like there are a lot of WRs and TEs that have looked decent so far and there should be some nice competitions throughout training camp for who makes the final roster, and RB is another pretty solid position.

The DLine has looked great so far, hopefully that will keep up and improve, and it seems like our defensive system will be able to feature a great variety of looks both in formations (base 4-3, 4-3 over/under, maybe bringing back some 3-4 plays) and personnel (Mario, Weaver, Peek all starting-quality DEs and Babin is also pretty solid there, Payne, Robaire, Weaver all starting-quality DTs and TJ is also pretty solid, decent talent at LB now with Orr/Anderson/Wong at SLB, Wong/Cowart/Rainer at MLB, and Greenwood/Ryans at WLB).

 

[slamdunc]

Thanks for the clear up Mork and AJ...preciate it

 

[Texan in Japan]

Good info, nice to hear from this kind of discussion. Curious about Babin at SDE, has he added the 20 lbs he dropped to be OLB? If he hasn't I'm surprised he's being tried there.

Ragone gone? If so, I'd wish we get a pick for our investment. Same with Wade, a late round pick next year would be better than nothing.

 

[Runner]

Good info, nice to hear from this kind of discussion. Curious about Babin at SDE, has he added the 20 lbs he dropped to be OLB? If he hasn't I'm surprised he's being tried there.

Ragone gone? If so, I'd wish we get a pick for our investment. Same with Wade, a late round pick next year would be better than nothing.

I'm concerned that with the combination of Weaver playing tackle & end and Peak being the choice on the weakside, that Babin may end up the odd man out. The usual caveat - it is early right now and things may change, but Babin may end up being some expensive depth that doesn't see the field much barring injury. Or worse. Pretty much the same goes for TJ with Weaver, Payne, and Smith rotating in the middle.

I think Ragone will be here for the season.

 

[aj.]

There's not a lot you can tell from one practice but Babin could be a misfit in this defense. A 3-4 tweener relic that will be a specialist at best, if they can afford the roster space. I saw him close-up and I don't see that he's bulked up much at all.

 

[Erratic Assassin]

DD worries me. I hawked him as he was being interviewed by Mark Berman and he was very cautious with his answers. He's definitley not participating in any of the OTA or mini-camp activity.

I wonder what that's about. DD is the same guy who publically stated that his goal was to rush for 2,000 yards one year. He's not the type to give cautious answers.

 

[keyfro]

i think everyone was worried about this pick...but whenever people talk about him they say that he is a cross between julius peppers and lawrence taylor...i'm sorry but the only feeling i have when i hear that is glee...the super beast is gonna run wild on payton and bryon...and whoever the titans qb is