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Will the Texans be as bad as we think?

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm for tanking 1 yr.

Otherwise you will be stuck in mediocrity again.
Sad part is they weren't tanking. They just had a terrible run of GM"s before the Haslams did something smart and hired a proven guy like Dorsey. You know the guy that we wanted Cal to hire.
I truly believe if the people involved would just do their jobs well, there’s no need to tank.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
You think Caserio wants this to take forever? He needs this to be succesful as quickly as possible. That isn't happening if they're getting 6, 7, 9 wins every year.

All of these 1 year contracts come off next year. Maybe they find a couple of guys who can play and re-sign them. Regardless, they'll be able to make moves that really have an impact next year and not just a bunch of special teamers hoping you find a diamond in the rough. They're also going to have freaking draft picks for a change. The higher the better because if you don't use it to get a top of the draft player, you can turn that high draft pick into multiple picks to help the process along even more. Hell, look what the Dolphins have done with their Texans picks. And seeing how they'll be in the market again for a franchise QB, they're going to need all the resources they can get.

This thing isn't going to really start to get rolling until next year. This year is just setting it up for that. Otherwise, he'll spend the length of his contract trying to dig out of this mess, and that's going to be a lot worse in the long run.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If we were talking about the NBA draft, where there are 6 good players available every once in a blue moon. I could see what you all are saying.

But in the NFL there a dozen good players in each of the first three rounds every year & another dozen on the last day.
 
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banned1976

All Pro
If we were talking about the NBA draft, where there are 6 good players available every once in a blue moon. I could see what you all are saying.

But in the NFL there a dozen good players in each of the first three rounds every year & another dozen on the last day.
The team still has to be run by competent people at the top of the organization.

As long as Cal “HeeHaw” McNair is running things I’m going to be at least slightly skeptical.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You think Caserio wants this to take forever? He needs this to be succesful as quickly as possible. That isn't happening if they're getting 6, 7, 9 wins every year.

All of these 1 year contracts come off next year. Maybe they find a couple of guys who can play and re-sign them. Regardless, they'll be able to make moves that really have an impact next year and not just a bunch of special teamers hoping you find a diamond in the rough. They're also going to have freaking draft picks for a change. The higher the better because if you don't use it to get a top of the draft player, you can turn that high draft pick into multiple picks to help the process along even more. Hell, look what the Dolphins have done with their Texans picks. And seeing how they'll be in the market again for a franchise QB, they're going to need all the resources they can get.

This thing isn't going to really start to get rolling until next year. This year is just setting it up for that. Otherwise, he'll spend the length of his contract trying to dig out of this mess, and that's going to be a lot worse in the long run.
I know I'm on ignore because of our DW4 disagreement.

But this is a great post.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If we were talking about the NBA draft, where there are 6 good players available every once in a blue moon. I could see what you all are saying.

But in the NFL there a dozen good players in each of the first three rounds every year & another dozen on the last day.
Agreed, but when you're in the franchise QB market the higher the pick the better.
 

Dejaview

Veteran
You think Caserio wants this to take forever? He needs this to be succesful as quickly as possible. That isn't happening if they're getting 6, 7, 9 wins every year.

All of these 1 year contracts come off next year. Maybe they find a couple of guys who can play and re-sign them. Regardless, they'll be able to make moves that really have an impact next year and not just a bunch of special teamers hoping you find a diamond in the rough. They're also going to have freaking draft picks for a change. The higher the better because if you don't use it to get a top of the draft player, you can turn that high draft pick into multiple picks to help the process along even more. Hell, look what the Dolphins have done with their Texans picks. And seeing how they'll be in the market again for a franchise QB, they're going to need all the resources they can get.

This thing isn't going to really start to get rolling until next year. This year is just setting it up for that. Otherwise, he'll spend the length of his contract trying to dig out of this mess, and that's going to be a lot worse in the long run.
 

Dejaview

Veteran
What Speedy says plus I believe there was a little house cleaning being performed to rid this team of the old mindset. I don’t believe NC released any player he couldn’t find an equivalent for that would also come with a fresh and hungrier perspective. His mantra is competition and I’m pretty sure even by now everyone still on the team knows what he’s about.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Anything is possible but it won’t be for the lack of this new FO and seemingly good coaching staff working their butts off to turn this ship around. I applaud, not condemn them for their efforts with what they have inherited. Go Texans, don’t ever quit.
I'm puzzled by the portion I bolded. Tim Kelly is an O'Brien holdover. Culley is a 65 year old rookie HC, having never served as a coordinator even. In his last two years in the NFL, Lovie Smith amassed a 8-24 record. His record at the University of Illinois was 10-33. To me, the coaching staff is as big of a question mark as any position group on the team.

I hope the coaching staff is up to the task. They've got their work cut out for them. And TBH, maybe I'm just not that informed but I did not see this coaching staff coming. I had not even heard the name David Culley until word went out that the Texans had interviewed him for the HC gig. I thought Tim Kelly was as good as gone as soon as the season ended. I knew Lovie Smith was coaching in the NCAA but I assumed (I know I shouldn't do that) it was as a positional coach.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
I've seen that predicted here
I just don't see them losing every game, they'll get one or two even if by accident. I'm sticking with my prediction of 3 to 5 wins this season.

But it sure would be nice if they did better than that. Don't see how though.
 

Dejaview

Veteran
I'm puzzled by the portion I bolded. Tim Kelly is an O'Brien holdover. Culley is a 65 year old rookie HC, having never served as a coordinator even. In his last two years in the NFL, Lovie Smith amassed a 8-24 record. His record at the University of Illinois was 10-33. To me, the coaching staff is as big of a question mark as any position group on the team.

I hope the coaching staff is up to the task. They've got their work cut out for them. And TBH, maybe I'm just not that informed but I did not see this coaching staff coming. I had not even heard the name David Culley until word went out that the Texans had interviewed him for the HC gig. I thought Tim Kelly was as good as gone as soon as the season ended. I knew Lovie Smith was coaching in the NCAA but I assumed (I know I shouldn't do that) it was as a positional coach.
It’s the position coaches, technique, that matter. The other guys are the scheme. Obviously they matter but every team has basically the same plays in their playbook. What makes the difference, IMO, is the execution. Like NC stated, he wants competitive players who can adjust and make corrections when necessary or they are replaced. NE didn’t have the best players but they did their jobs. Kelly with zero experience didn’t do so bad for his first year. He will have input from Hamilton now. Better OL coach now. But getting back to your points. OK they all suck. So why waste time complaining about a bunch of losers? NC will damn sure change coaches as well as players. But for me these are good times. I’m finally happy this team has a direction and are trying to execute it. watching these moves and wanting to see this team in TC will be interesting. But look at this from our perspectives. We lose, you are happy because you can say you were right. Me, I don’t give a rats ass if I’m wrong. Right now, this is what football is all about.
 

banned1976

All Pro
It’s the position coaches, technique, that matter. The other guys are the scheme. Obviously they matter but every team has basically the same plays in their playbook. What makes the difference, IMO, is the execution. Like NC stated, he wants competitive players who can adjust and make corrections when necessary or they are replaced. NE didn’t have the best players but they did their jobs. Kelly with zero experience didn’t do so bad for his first year. He will have input from Hamilton now. Better OL coach now. But getting back to your points. OK they all suck. So why waste time complaining about a bunch of losers? NC will damn sure change coaches as well as players. But for me these are good times. I’m finally happy this team has a direction and are trying to execute it. watching these moves and wanting to see this team in TC will be interesting. But look at this from our perspectives. We lose, you are happy because you can say you were right. Me, I don’t give a rats ass if I’m wrong. Right now, this is what football is all about.
I didn’t say they all suck. I said the staff, as a whole, is a question mark. To me. And I merely detailed why I feel that way. Why are people so sensitive towards any skepticism thrown at the Texans? Especially in a thread titled in such a way that it practically begs for the criticism?

Edit: I do agree with you on the OL coaching change. Greatly welcomed and should equate to better line play instantly.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Among centers Landon Dickerson was #1 in the nation in run blocking, 2nd overall offensive ranking. He was tied for 4th in quarterback hurries with only 2, and tied for 10th in quarterback pressures allowed with 5. You're right, if he's there at #67 you have to give serious thought in drafting him but I'm concerned about his knee. I'd defer to the medical team to help me make a final decision.
You also have to wonder if a 2nd round QB is there do they let him go or pick him? I have seen a few mocks and in this situation it's near 50-50 on letting a QB slide past.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm puzzled by the portion I bolded. Tim Kelly is an O'Brien holdover. Culley is a 65 year old rookie HC, having never served as a coordinator even. In his last two years in the NFL, Lovie Smith amassed a 8-24 record. His record at the University of Illinois was 10-33. To me, the coaching staff is as big of a question mark as any position group on the team.

I hope the coaching staff is up to the task. They've got their work cut out for them. And TBH, maybe I'm just not that informed but I did not see this coaching staff coming. I had not even heard the name David Culley until word went out that the Texans had interviewed him for the HC gig. I thought Tim Kelly was as good as gone as soon as the season ended. I knew Lovie Smith was coaching in the NCAA but I assumed (I know I shouldn't do that) it was as a positional coach.
I'm thinking this coaching staff is a placeholder staff during the rebuild.
 
While hockey and football are two different sports I still think the example I am fixing to point out gives us hope that we can be better than many expect. In the NHL the expansion Las Vegas Golden Knights were winners right from the start and that was three seasons ago and they are still among the best teams in the league. I know our sport is football but still, if a pro team built through expansion can win a lot of games than the possibility of our team being at least competive and maybe even winning more than most people think is very real. It is not likely but the precedent is set and anything is possible.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
You think Caserio wants this to take forever? He needs this to be succesful as quickly as possible. That isn't happening if they're getting 6, 7, 9 wins every year.

All of these 1 year contracts come off next year. Maybe they find a couple of guys who can play and re-sign them. Regardless, they'll be able to make moves that really have an impact next year and not just a bunch of special teamers hoping you find a diamond in the rough. They're also going to have freaking draft picks for a change. The higher the better because if you don't use it to get a top of the draft player, you can turn that high draft pick into multiple picks to help the process along even more. Hell, look what the Dolphins have done with their Texans picks. And seeing how they'll be in the market again for a franchise QB, they're going to need all the resources they can get.

This thing isn't going to really start to get rolling until next year. This year is just setting it up for that. Otherwise, he'll spend the length of his contract trying to dig out of this mess, and that's going to be a lot worse in the long run.
Overthecap.com shows 2022 cap space of less than 3.5; seems like those one year contracts may not assist much? There will be many contracts that can be eliminated.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
While hockey and football are two different sports I still think the example I am fixing to point out gives us hope that we can be better than many expect. In the NHL the expansion Las Vegas Golden Knights were winners right from the start and that was three seasons ago and they are still among the best teams in the league. I know our sport is football but still, if a pro team built through expansion can win a lot of games than the possibility of our team being at least competive and maybe even winning more than most people think is very real. It is not likely but the precedent is set and anything is possible.
I think that comparison is apples and oranges. Not because of the different sports, but because Vegas had very favorable rules to get started, much like the Jaguars and Panthers did with both of those teams having early success. The last time the NHL had an expansion draft, teams could protect up to 15 players on their rosters. And depending on which option teams chose, they could protect 2 goalies. For the Vegas expansion draft, as few as 9 to a max of 11, with only 1 goalie, were protected.

That’s not what’s happening with the Texans. They’re not getting to go through every team's roster and pick up impact players like Vegas was able to do. They're grabbing guys who saw most of their snaps on ST or were rotational guys/marginal starters at best. And let's not forget that the QB play is not going to be what it was. Even if the team is marginally better overall with what they've added, than the team that won 4 games with a really good QB, that drop off will be noticeable and will matter.
 

Dejaview

Veteran
I didn’t say they all suck. I said the staff, as a whole, is a question mark. To me. And I merely detailed why I feel that way. Why are people so sensitive towards any skepticism thrown at the Texans? Especially in a thread titled in such a way that it practically begs for the criticism?

Edit: I do agree with you on the OL coaching change. Greatly welcomed and should equate to better line play instantly.
To be honest skepticism rules this board and the general trend is to denigrate “koolaid sippers” and everything else that moves. I’ve received PM’s from some that have quit posting here For those reasons. Fine. Only an idiot wouldn’t understand the history of this team. But take it easy on me. It’s hard to live with so many experts in the world. I guess it’s just a perspective thing. most dwell on the past, a few look to the future. Past dwellers take their smugness because they work from facts. for The rest of us our facts are in the future. So it’s not so much sensitivity as it is having to reread history constantly, lol. When you lose hope you may as well be dead.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
As good as the QB play was last season, can we agree it was not conducive to winning football games?
Sure, as long you can understand that that’s how bad the rest of the team really was. Watson led the NFL in yards, yards per attempt, yards per completion, had a 33/7 TD/INT ratio and a 112.4 passer rating. That's a pretty wicked season for a QB. I don't know what else anyone could expect him to do. No run game, poor protection, receivers that featured Coutee and Hanson for several games, and absolutely no defense. Normally great QB play can fade other deficiencies on a team. The Texans were so bad that great QB play had no impact, other than they won 4 games instead of maybe just winning 2 or fewer.

If any of that improves this year, how much of an improvement do you expect that to be? A run game that goes from 31 to 21? A defense that ranks in the low 20's? Better? They go from 31st in rushing to say 18th, but their passing goes from 4th to 18th, what does that do?

This team last year was bad. Tom Brady wrapped in Joe Montana wouldn't have made a difference.
 

banned1976

All Pro
To be honest skepticism rules this board and the general trend is to denigrate “koolaid sippers” and everything else that moves. I’ve received PM’s from some that have quit posting here For those reasons. Fine. Only an idiot wouldn’t understand the history of this team. But take it easy on me. It’s hard to live with so many experts in the world. I guess it’s just a perspective thing. most dwell on the past, a few look to the future. Past dwellers take their smugness because they work from facts. for The rest of us our facts are in the future. So it’s not so much sensitivity as it is having to reread history constantly, lol. When you lose hope you may as well be dead.
I try not to beat up anyone regardless of which side of the aisle they're on. I believe most people on this board are cautious with their outlook for this team because there are so many unknowns. Granted, between 0 and 9 wins is a pretty wide spread, but even though I'm in the 0-4 win category that doesn't mean I've lost all hope for the future. As the saying goes, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet and I feel the Texans are just in the process of egg breaking. It's going to take more than one offseason before I expect to see improvement. I wrote (and others did as well) shortly after the 2019 season ended for the Texans that they were headed towards some lean years in the win department. O'Brien and company had mortgaged the Texans future to try and cover up earlier mistakes. 2021 was always going to be the toughest year. Now it's much tougher than I could have imagined with the Watson saga.

Hopefully the omelet will be worth the wait.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Sure, as long you can understand that that’s how bad the rest of the team really was. Watson led the NFL in yards, yards per attempt, yards per completion, had a 33/7 TD/INT ratio and a 112.4 passer rating. That's a pretty wicked season for a QB. I don't know what else anyone could expect him to do. No run game, poor protection, receivers that featured Coutee and Hanson for several games, and absolutely no defense. Normally great QB play can fade other deficiencies on a team. The Texans were so bad that great QB play had no impact, other than they won 4 games instead of maybe just winning 2 or fewer.

If any of that improves this year, how much of an improvement do you expect that to be? A run game that goes from 31 to 21? A defense that ranks in the low 20's? Better? They go from 31st in rushing to say 18th, but their passing goes from 4th to 18th, what does that do?

This team last year was bad. Tom Brady wrapped in Joe Montana wouldn't have made a difference.
Watson isn't without flaws but he did a helleva lot more to help the team then hurt it. Love this post. It's going to be a rough next couple of years I think.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
To be honest skepticism rules this board and the general trend is to denigrate “koolaid sippers” and everything else that moves. I’ve received PM’s from some that have quit posting here For those reasons. Fine. Only an idiot wouldn’t understand the history of this team. But take it easy on me. It’s hard to live with so many experts in the world. I guess it’s just a perspective thing. most dwell on the past, a few look to the future. Past dwellers take their smugness because they work from facts. for The rest of us our facts are in the future. So it’s not so much sensitivity as it is having to reread history constantly, lol. When you lose hope you may as well be dead.
[/QUOT
Those who choose to ignore history contribute to history repeating itself.





Sure, as long you can understand that that’s how bad the rest of the team really was. Watson led the NFL in yards, yards per attempt, yards per completion, had a 33/7 TD/INT ratio and a 112.4 passer rating. That's a pretty wicked season for a QB. I don't know what else anyone could expect him to do. No run game, poor protection, receivers that featured Coutee and Hanson for several games, and absolutely no defense. Normally great QB play can fade other deficiencies on a team. The Texans were so bad that great QB play had no impact, other than they won 4 games instead of maybe just winning 2 or fewer.

If any of that improves this year, how much of an improvement do you expect that to be? A run game that goes from 31 to 21? A defense that ranks in the low 20's? Better? They go from 31st in rushing to say 18th, but their passing goes from 4th to 18th, what does that do?

This team last year was bad. Tom Brady wrapped in Joe Montana wouldn't have made a difference.
You must be pretty upset with your guy

Hollow numbers,

I will admit the defense sucked too, but DW4 was part of the problem.

I will be glad when DW4's gone, then maybe you will take me off of ignore and things will return back to normal. You might be surprised to see that we agree on alot of things when it comes to the Texans/sports in general.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
I’d be more than happy to agree with this post.....if it mentioned that the offense put this team in a position to win more games but the defense and Fairbairn failed miserably at their jobs in crucial moments.

Especially if it mentioned the pass pro sucked, the run game was near the bottom of the league, and our coaching/game management was mediocre at best (or more likely a dumpster fire.)

Outside of that, we're good.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Especially if it mentioned the pass pro sucked, the run game was near the bottom of the league, and our coaching/game management was mediocre at best (or more likely a dumpster fire.)

Outside of that, we're good.
Everybody sucked besides DW4. Seems to be the theme. Add coaching and play calling to the list

Yet he set records despite everyone sucking around him. He must be a god like pervert in some posters minds.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Everybody sucked besides DW4. Seems to be the theme. Add coaching and play calling to the list

Yet he set records despite everyone sucking around him. He must be a god like pervert in some posters minds.
I think he's somewhere near the middle of the spectrum but your agenda doesn't allow for that. Evaluate last years team minus dw and tell me where I'm wrong. The Texans were not good in any meaningful way.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think he's somewhere near the middle of the spectrum but your agenda doesn't allow for that. Evaluate last years team minus dw and tell me where I'm wrong. The Texans were not good in any meaningful way.
I've always said he's a middle of the pack guy. No agendas. I still believe this.

They weren't good with him and I suspect they will have about the same record this year without him
 
I've always said he's a middle of the pack guy. No agendas. I still believe this.

They weren't good with him and I suspect they will have about the same record this year without him
DW4 is not a middle of the pack QB, he is upper echelon. He is in the middle of the spectrum as it applies to the team last year in wins/losses which I believe would have yielded the same results with anyone you would consider to be a great QB.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
As good as the QB play was last season, can we agree it was not conducive to winning football games?
It was conducive to winning games. That sorry defense cost us what should’ve been wins in at least 8 games. The quarterback and that offense were able to take leads in crunch time only for the defense to squander it away.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I didn’t say they all suck. I said the staff, as a whole, is a question mark. To me. And I merely detailed why I feel that way. Why are people so sensitive towards any skepticism thrown at the Texans? Especially in a thread titled in such a way that it practically begs for the criticism?

Edit: I do agree with you on the OL coaching change. Greatly welcomed and should equate to better line play instantly.
If someone is not skeptical of this organization, they are just not paying attention to the history of how it's been run for the past several years.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This team last year was bad. Tom Brady wrapped in Joe Montana wouldn't have made a difference.
Well, yeah. We’re saying the same thing here as far as the QB goes.

If we run the ball better than last year & play better defense I believe we’ll win more games.

I agree, there’s a big drop off from DW4 to Taylor.I don’t believe it will be so big a drop off that we won’t win 4 games.

We’ll win more games in 2021 if Watson plays in 2021 even if ihe were statistically worse.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Watson isn't without flaws but he did a helleva lot more to help the team then hurt it. Love this post. It's going to be a rough next couple of years I think.
Brock Osweiler was under Center for a Div playoff game. Bad QBs ain’t nothing new here. Y’all act like we’ve had HOFers taking snaps since 2002.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I’d be more than happy to agree with this post.....if it mentioned that the offense put this team in a position to win more games but the defense and Fairbairn failed miserably at their jobs in crucial moments.
Proving my point. I think. I’m a Watson fan. I’m not blaming him. I’m not saying he played so well we won 4 games either.

Still I think we’ll win more games in 2021 with or without Watson
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Well, yeah. We’re saying the same thing here as far as the QB goes.

If we run the ball better than last year & play better defense I believe we’ll win more games.

I agree, there’s a big drop off from DW4 to Taylor.I don’t believe it will be so big a drop off that we won’t win 4 games.

We’ll win more games in 2021 if Watson plays in 2021 even if ihe were statistically worse.
Proving my point. I think. I’m a Watson fan. I’m not blaming him. I’m not saying he played so well we won 4 games either.

Still I think we’ll win more games in 2021 with or without Watson
Well, I don't know how you think that. I mean, they could I guess, if the ball bounces right, but I think too much of that has to happen for them to win games as opposed to having play makers getting it done. They have no play makers on either side of the ball.

And again, when you say running the ball better than last year, what does that mean? If they're 20th, yeah, that's much better, but that's not going to translate to wins. Especially if the pass game falls from top 5 to middle of the pack or so. They're not going to be a top 5 rushing team like Culley had in Baltimore or Taylor had in Buffalo. If they did, I'd agree it could make a difference in W's and L's.

If you're going to have tier 3 type QB, and I may be a bit generous there, you have to have a solid team built around you that dominates something. A dominate defense or a dominant run game. I don't see where the Texans can put that on the field in 2021. Yeah, they can have improvement in those areas, which again, wouldn't take much, but unless it reaches dominant status, there's not going to be enough to overcome the average at best play under center.

We went to the playoffs with Osweiler, yes. We also had the #1 defense in the NFL that year. Went to the playoffs with Hoyer. Again, the defense was one of the best (#3). So yeah, you can win games with subpar play at QB, but you have to have some aspect of your team that dominates. The 2021 Texans do not have that.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
I can see that happening too. I just think we have enough offensive weapons to remain In the 13-18 passing game and similar for rushing. Really to me, the questions remain on defense. If we can be average on defense, we have a shot to be an average team, near .500. If the defense fails, we will suck.
The defense will also take time to gel as will the O.
We should get a weaker schedule.
I think we can be .500 in the second half of the season. I'm thinking 5-6 wins total.
I still think we need secondary, Dline and pass rush help - as well as a WR and running game boost.
I am looking forward to see if Caserio addresses them all this season.
 


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