Will someone explain why people hate T.O.???

[jgl35]

This past summer I made a trip to the Eagles training camp at Lehigh Univ. After practice was over and most of the Ealges were going back to the gym, who do you think stayed out and came over to the fence,stood and talked to the fans. Terrell Owens is who. He stayed out there for a good half hour, joking around and answered every question asked of him in 90 deg. heat.
Hearing him talk to people that day, I got the sense that he says what he feels, and those answers are honest. We aren't use to honest anymore.
You know, all the bad things that TO was suppose to cause with the Eagles this year never happened. I wish he was here in Philly from the beginning.

 

[texasguy346]

Yeah. T.O talks. Favre gets addicted to pain killers.

Americans are willing, often eager, to forgive someone, especially atheletes, when they admit the made a mistake, and we give them a chance to change. Favre was addicted to painkillers and he had his struggles with alcohol abuse. He changed and apologized for the way he was to his family and friends. You got lots of other examples of this across sports. Pete Rose, Babe Ruth, LT, Irvin, etc. Irvin is probably the closest to TO. Irvin had a similiar negative clout surrounding him back in his playing days. When his drug addiction was revealed and he eventually overcame it he became a much more sympathetic figure among most fans. TO on the other hand is addicted to the spotlight, but he won't ever apologize for it. I don't think he has a responsibility to apologize for thriving on the media spotlight, but it also won't help to make him a sympathetic figure. I don't think it's entirely TO's fault since I'm sure the media flocks to him for quotes now that he's a NFL icon. They know he'll be good for a quote that might stir up controversy or at least grab a few headlines. I really don't think TO even minds the negative press as long as he gets some press. Sure he'd like more positive press, but if he really wanted it I think he's saavy enough to know how to manipulate the media.

 

[Boxscore]

And if someone like Brett Favre came out and called teammates gay, and threw around accusations about murder cases, the public perception wouldn't be so grand. TO is a great player and an egomaniac. Brett is just a great player. That's why the media is being so evil when it comes to a guy who constantly bashed Jeff Garcia for absolutely no reason.

I'm tired of hearing that comparison. TO heard that from an ESPN personality and then decided to use it like he thought it up himself.

Why does it matter why TO went off talking about how no one believed in him? The team lost and he still made it about him, and still wanted to rub it in that he did good. He's a great teammate until things go wrong, then all of a sudden you have a supposedly gay quarterback.

OK Youngstown Colt you have had your say. Has Terrell Owens had to go through Drug rehabilation? The answer is No. Has Bret Favre had to go through Drug rehabilation? The answer is yes. What did that do for the Green Bay youth? Your obversations about TO were biased as you think your superhero is unflawed!

Is there another factor that no one seems willing to talk about regarding this subject?

Another positive thing about TO is his openly expression of his faith in God, and that is what he truly believed healed his injuries faster than his doctors advised. You politically correct people please correct me if he did not actually say "God".

 

[Boxscore]

Favre also had alcohol addiction that he had to tackle.

Is there another factor that no one seems willing to talk about regarding this subject?

 

[Wolf]

I got tired of the cockiness of the patriots... seemed like every big play they were flapping their arms. one or two times is enough but seemed like all game I had to see that... and I was pulling for them earlier in the game

I think it is the type of individual that I cling too as good or bad.. I for one perfer the Earl Campbell "flip the ball to the referee as I have been there before" TD celebration and I also like the Billy "shake my legs dance" celebration when he ran a TD back... Maybe it is one person scores so much it doesn't matter (i.e. Earl) and one when they do score it is a momentum changer and do act like it is a big deal (i.e. Billy Johnson)

 

[Wolf]

Favre also had alcohol addiction that he had to tackle.

Is there another factor that no one seems willing to talk about regarding this subject?

I respect Favre more for overcoming that than anything else..not many people in the world overcome that... To me with so much people drinking and getting addicted.. Favre overcoming that says volumes compared to anyone that hasn't gone through what Favre did and speaks their mind.. one is that they haven't been in the shoes that say Favre has walked

 

[Boxscore]

I want to make sure that I have not turned this into a Favre versus TO issue. It is not.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002173687_les08.html

 

[Wolf]

on that subject.. and not taking anything away from T.O.. if I recall the Patriots had 2 rookies playing cornerback? was that what the T.V. announcers said? I know Ty law wasn't there and can't remember who was the other injured player.. but if that is the case, why couldn't the Eagles exploit that? Those CB's couldn't be THAT good. or was it the game plan?

 

[Rosusu]

Ok I just got into this thread so here is a few of my takes..

If Ray Lewis is doing his dance to get pumped up why does he have to do it infront of the camera? Why cant he do it by himself in the locker room? Because he wants the attention.

I LOVE T.O. Football is supposed to be fun. Yes you have an obligation to your team to try your hardest which he does. You are also playing a game and he makes it fun. I want to watch to see what he does next. The NFL loves him because of all the attention he gets and the draw he has on their consumers.

YES some of the stuff he does is stupid (jeff garcia) but other than that I have no problem with anything he has done. He is probably the best athlete in the NFL and he tries harder than anyone. He is the best reciever in football and any team would love to have him. I think he is great for NFL and my viewing pleasure.

 

[SheTexan]

Another positive thing about TO is his openly expression of his faith in God, and that is what he truly believed healed his injuries faster than his doctors advised. You politically correct people please correct me if he did not actually say "God".

Funny how I never heard him talk about "GOD" when he was with SF!!

TO want, needs, and expects instant gradification, he gets that via the media. He will say and do whatever it takes to get it. NOT his fault they give it to him!

For those of you who would love to have him on our TEXANS, it would NEVER happen. His ego is much to big to play for a lowly 3 y/o expansion team! He would pitch a kiddy fit and threaten to quit before he would stoop that low. The only reason he was so insistant on going to the Eagles is because he thought they were one step away from WINNING a SB. To hell with working his way up with the team and helping them get there. They did just fine in the playoffs without him!! MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, they would have done just fine in the SB without him.

 

[StarStruck]

Tell us how you really feel, SheTexan,

 

[SheTexan]

Tell us how you really feel, SheTexan,

You really don't want to know what I truly think about that jerk! lol

Just remember, I am a long time NINER fan. They dumped THE BEST WR in the NFL, Jerry Rice, for that low life piece of ****. TO was never the team player that JR was for the Niners. TO can dance all the jigs he wants, tell all the lies he cares to tell, BUT, he will NEVER be the WR that JR was, and still is! JMHO!!

For all you "stat" freaks, don't even bother. You can't put numbers to the heart and passion a player brings to a team. You combine that with talent, and you have an elite player. Such is Jerry Rice, and our Andre Johnson. TO doesn't even come close.

 

[Wolf]

freddie mitchell is making T.O. seem like a saint

 

[Youngstown Colt]

Yeah. T.O talks. Favre gets addicted to pain killers.

(so there is no misconception, I do like Favre)

wow, fault a man for something that was beyond his control. And ignore that he apologized an fixed it. Tell me when TO apologized for slandering someones good name? And you don't get off the hook for being ignorant because you put in the "but I like him" line.

 

[Fiddy]

wow, fault a man for something that was beyond his control. And ignore that he apologized an fixed it. Tell me when TO apologized for slandering someones good name? And you don't get off the hook for being ignorant because you put in the "but I like him" line.

How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions.

Why should T.O. apologize for something he believes??? He believes that Garcia is homosexual and stinks as a QB. Now do I wish he would of kept those comments to himself??? Yes, I do but it's called the first amendment. He has the right to say what he wants to.

 

[blockhead83]

"How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions." - Fiddy

ad·dic·tion (-dkshn)
n.
Habitual psychological and physiological dependence on a substance or practice beyond one's voluntary control.

el oh el.

 

[WWJD]

Irregardless of whether a teammate "stinks" or not isn't there sort of an unwritten rule that you keep all that in house? It's called being a good teammate I think.

I'm not so sure Terrell would like it if say...oh he had pimples on his butt....and one of his teammates came out and said so. That'd be in pretty bad taste I think and uncalled for. Same for his comments about Jeff Garcia who, by the way, DENIES being gay and said Terrell is lying.

 

[infantrycak]

If dating this:

makes you a homosexual male, I think the presidential election would have gone far different last year.

TO is a great but tacky player.

 

[Youngstown Colt]

How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions.

Have control of an addiction?!?! Are you kidding me? Those cigarrette smokers who tell you they can quit whenever they want, but don't; Here's a special tip, IT'S BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!

 

[MarleyFan]

If dating this:

makes you a homosexual male, I think the presidential election would have gone far different last year.

TO is a great but tacky player.

Wow, good for Garcia!

 

[StarStruck]

If dating this:

makes you a homosexual male, I think the presidential election would have gone far different last year.

TO is a great but tacky player.

Sounds good in theory, but if a gay individual chooses not to reveal his/her preference or go public with that preference, then who he/she dates isn't a strong argument.

 

[texasguy346]

Why should T.O. apologize for something he believes??? He believes that Garcia is homosexual and stinks as a QB. Now do I wish he would of kept those comments to himself??? Yes, I do but it's called the first amendment. He has the right to say what he wants to.

Now I'm not saying what TO said constitutes slander, but if he had said "Jeff Garcia IS a homosexual" instead of alluding to the fact that he thought he might be one then it could constitute slander if Garcia were then let go by the Browns for that reason. However, that wouldn't happen since there are laws in place to protect people from that sort of discrimination. The point being that although what TO said didn't impose upon Jeff Garcia's rights it certainly had an effect on him due to the media spotlight that surrounded him after TO's comments. So even though saying it wasn't slanderous, it most certainly didn't help improve his public image. TO is entertaining, but his and my freedom of speech ends when it imposes upon someone else's rights.

 

[Fiddy]

You are getting ridiculous now. The entire nature of an "addiction" means that they have lost some sort of control....or they wouldn't be addicted.

Also, I think it is weak you attack someone like Farve (who is clearly a decent hard working guy) to make your point with Owens. You lose credibility in your argument with this tactic.

I should of reworded my previous comment better. People addicted to say drugs do have control, its called help which Favre eventually got. That's why I brought up people addicted to cigarettes. Cigarettes users say they are going to quit but dont get any help. They think that just by throwing away a pack they will stop. No matter what a person is doing, the person has some control. And did Favre go through alcohol rebab (I honestly dont know) cause I know if he did, he didnt start using alcohol to relieve the pain of football.

I didn't bring up Favre, Youngstown Colt brought him up and protrayed him as the perfect guy. But Favre is far from perfect. You have never seen T.O. in any kind of rehab, in a murder trail (Ray Lewis), busted for dealing drugs (Jamal Lewis) or doing drugs (Lawerence Taylor). T.O. likes to talk and speaks his mind and people make him out to be a bad guy. He works just as had as Favre, plays through pain like Favre, has great games when playing through pain like Favre but he is protrayed as a bad guy, the exact opposite of Favre.


And Vinny, its FaVRe not FaRVe

 

[Marcus]

You wanna know why I hate him, huh?

How about slamming your fellow teammate while crying for more money?

"There are a lot of people who said that me playing in that game was an inspiration to them," Owens said. "Hey, the only person I was trying to inspire was myself. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. But why did I want to do it? To win a Super Bowl for the team, for the fans, for the city. I did everything they asked me to do. I played every snap they allowed me to play. I wasn't even running until, like, two weeks before the game. But I made sure I was in the best shape possible. I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl."

What a bud!

 

[TheOgre]

The only reason he was so insistant on going to the Eagles is because he thought they were one step away from WINNING a SB. To hell with working his way up with the team and helping them get there. They did just fine in the playoffs without him!! MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, they would have done just fine in the SB without him.

The team's weakest area was WR, and yet they continually finished a game short of the Super Bowl. T.O. joined them to put them over the hump, and sure he wanted to win one for himself. It is a win-win situation the way I look at it.

He was one of the good stories for the Eagles at the SB. He clearly wasn't 100%, yet he put in a performance that would have been remembered for the ages if the Eagles had won. The reasons they lost had more to do with a combination of McNabb's nerves and Reed's coaching. The 4th quarter TD drive was the ugliest sustained drive I have seen in all of my football viewership. McNabb and Reed are the ones that should be embarrassed, not T.O.

 

[Youngstown Colt]

And TO continues to finger point when things don't go right...

"There are a lot of people who said that me playing in that game was an inspiration to them," Owens said. "Hey, the only person I was trying to inspire was myself. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. I played every snap they allowed me to play. I wasn't even running until, like, two weeks before the game. But I made sure I was in the best shape possible. I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl."

What a classy guy!

 

[Youngstown Colt]

I didn't bring up Favre, Youngstown Colt brought him up and protrayed him as the perfect guy. But Favre is far from perfect.

Wow, good thing somone bumped this thread so I could see this guy throwing around false accusations.

Go back to my posts and notice that I didn't bring up Favre, and I CERTAINLY didn't say he was a perfect man.

Funny, like I stated in my earlier post "TO is a great teammate when you're winning/"

 

[Corrosion]

You can come closer to comparing Ray Lweis to Ray Caruth than you can comparing him to TO .

 

[canadiantexan]

Class is something T.O. has'nt seen since school and I'm not sure how much of it he saw when he was there. Just remember because someone is a great player does not make them a great person. Makes you glad we got a guy like A.J.

 

[Huge]

How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions.

Why should T.O. apologize for something he believes??? He believes that Garcia is homosexual and stinks as a QB. Now do I wish he would of kept those comments to himself??? Yes, I do but it's called the first amendment. He has the right to say what he wants to.

So you believe that it's okay for Owens to express his opinions because he's backed by the First Amendment and those are his beliefs.

But you can't understand why people continue to bash Owens? How is this?

 

[Fiddy]

Dang, I totally forgot about this thread...

Wow, good thing somone bumped this thread so I could see this guy throwing around false accusations.

Go back to my posts and notice that I didn't bring up Favre, and I CERTAINLY didn't say he was a perfect man.

Funny, like I stated in my earlier post "TO is a great teammate when you're winning/"

ok, http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=81411&postcount=49

Favre mentioned in that post and you said that T.O. was an egomaniac and "Favre is just a great player." When in reality, Favre has had problems, too. The way I read it, you made it sound like Favre was perfect.

So you believe that it's okay for Owens to express his opinions because he's backed by the First Amendment and those are his beliefs.

But you can't understand why people continue to bash Owens? How is this?

But why do you have those beliefs??? I know you have the right to hate him and everything, but why do you hate him. That's what I cant understand.

You wanna know why I hate him, huh?

How about slamming your fellow teammate while crying for more money?

"There are a lot of people who said that me playing in that game was an inspiration to them," Owens said. "Hey, the only person I was trying to inspire was myself. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. But why did I want to do it? To win a Super Bowl for the team, for the fans, for the city. I did everything they asked me to do. I played every snap they allowed me to play. I wasn't even running until, like, two weeks before the game. But I made sure I was in the best shape possible. I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl."

What a bud!

And did you read the rest???

Asked to whom he was referring, Owens laughed, then changed the subject. It has been widely reported that McNabb was either ill or fatigued late in Super Bowl XXXIX. The star quarterback has denied either was the case.

T.O. said it jokingly and McNabb didnt get tired in the Super Bowl so how is he going after him???

 

[Huge]

But why do you have those beliefs??? I know you have the right to hate him and everything, but why do you hate him. That's what I cant understand.

And yet you're so quick to accept Owens' logic as to why he believes that Jeff Garcia is a homosexual and a bad QB?

Jeff Garcia is married to a gorgeous woman (although that doesn't mean he's not gay) and has been to 3 Pro Bowls during his 6 years on the league.

What about those two facts scream "homosexual" and "bad QB"?

So far, Owens has just been quoted as saying he believes Garcia is gay and is a bad QB. He hasn't provided anything to support these "beliefs", he's just been quoted as saying such. And we're required to provide more? Why is that?

 

[Youngstown Colt]

If you believe TO was joking, you are an Owens apologist at its worst.

That's a great way to joke, you know? Bring up your buddies worst professional sports moment and remind him of how he cost his team.

I just wish I had friends that would always joke about the worst moment in my life, and remind me of how they are better than me.

 

[Fiddy]

And yet you're so quick to accept Owens' logic as to why he believes that Jeff Garcia is a homosexual and a bad QB?

Jeff Garcia is married to a gorgeous woman (although that doesn't mean he's not gay) and has been to 3 Pro Bowls during his 6 years on the league.

What about those two facts scream "homosexual" and "bad QB"?

So far, Owens has just been quoted as saying he believes Garcia is gay and is a bad QB. He hasn't provided anything to support these "beliefs", he's just been quoted as saying such. And we're required to provide more? Why is that?

Ok, you made your point but maybe T.O. saw Jeff looking at his butt in the locker room one day or something to that nature.

And Garcia was cut this offseason after being signed to a 4 year contract, so the Browns must think that Garcia isnt that good either.

If you believe TO was joking, you are an Owens apologist at its worst.

That's a great way to joke, you know? Bring up your buddies worst professional sports moment and remind him of how he cost his team.

I just wish I had friends that would always joke about the worst moment in my life, and remind me of how they are better than me.

It wasnt his buddies worst moment because according to McNabb, him getting tired never happened.

 

[Huge]

And Garcia was cut this offseason after being signed to a 4 year contract, so the Browns must think that Garcia isnt that good either.

Yes, because the Browns are the team you really want to take advice from when evaluating talent. Or have you not been paying attention to their draft picks and free agent aquisitions since they came back in the league?

Garcia's problem is he has Doug Flutitis. Too short and limited upside so teams will continue to shy away from him. Not to say I blame them. He's not somebody I'd want to build a team around given his age (35).


Here's the bottom line: Those that don't like Owens are the ones that are tired of his act. Wanna act like you're the best in the league? Do so by making your teammates better. Win a Super Bowl. Has he done that...anywhere? The Eagles made the NFC Championship game three times without Owens and failed in the Super Bowl with him (not to say this was Owens' fault but with or without him...they still lose). Until you accomplish something, STFU.

See...Ray Lewis can do his dance. He's got his ring. He's the leader of the best defense in the NFL. He can dance. Thinks Owens has ever been considered a leader? No...because he doesn't know a thing about leading.

Still confused as to why people bash Owens or are you going to continue to bury your head in the sand and believe it's just people's imagination that he's an assclown?

 

[Youngstown Colt]

And Garcia was cut this offseason after being signed to a 4 year contract, so the Browns must think that Garcia isnt that good either.

Jeff was a square peg in a round hole. He didn't work in the browns traditional offense, and that wasn't his fault. There was no O-line, he was set up for failure.

It wasnt his buddies worst moment because according to McNabb, him getting tired never happened.

What he didn't have a horrible superbowl? I believe he did. He's rubbing a bad performance in McNabb's face.

Bottom line is, TO didn't get the team to the superbowl, Donovan did. TO just played in the game for his own personal glory. He made that perfectly clear after the game when he talked about himself for about 10 minutes, and how he shocked the world. Watch any TO press conference, and you're sure to get your fill of the word "I"

 

[Fiddy]

Here's the bottom line: Those that don't like Owens are the ones that are tired of his act. Wanna act like you're the best in the league? Do so by making your teammates better. Win a Super Bowl. Has he done that...anywhere? The Eagles made the NFC Championship game three times without Owens and failed in the Super Bowl with him (not to say this was Owens' fault but with or without him...they still lose). Until you accomplish something, STFU.

See...Ray Lewis can do his dance. He's got his ring. He's the leader of the best defense in the NFL. He can dance. Thinks Owens has ever been considered a leader? No...because he doesn't know a thing about leading.

Still confused as to why people bash Owens or are you going to continue to bury your head in the sand and believe it's just people's imagination that he's an assclown?

I'm sorry T.O. couldnt do better then 120 yards recieving on one ankle. And I guess 3 McNabb INTs and an LJ Smith fumble had nothing to do with the Super Bowl lost.

So when T.O wins a Super Bowl, he can do whatever he likes...right???

And some people arent great leaders, not everyone is blessed with that characteristic, but there are roughly 160 NFL WRs and only about 5 can make a case they are better then T.O.

And the Ravens had the 6th best defense in the league, not the first...

 

[Fiddy]

What he didn't have a horrible superbowl? I believe he did. He's rubbing a bad performance in McNabb's face.

Bottom line is, TO didn't get the team to the superbowl, Donovan did. TO just played in the game for his own personal glory. He made that perfectly clear after the game when he talked about himself for about 10 minutes, and how he shocked the world. Watch any TO press conference, and you're sure to get your fill of the word "I"

Maybe I missed a quote of T.O but from what I read T.O. said "I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl." (which McNabb says he didnt get tired) Where did T.O. bring up the three INTs.


So, T.O. risked further injury to his ankle for personal glory??? Yeah, right. T.O. does everything in his power to win, he may want people to look at him but at the end of the day, he just wants the 'W'

 

[Huge]

I'm sorry T.O. couldnt do better then 120 yards recieving on one ankle. And I guess 3 McNabb INTs and an LJ Smith fumble had nothing to do with the Super Bowl lost.

Did his team win? No. Want to know what was a big factor? Because Owens doesn't have what it takes to make his teammates better. Do you want to know why the Lakers won't make the playoffs this season despite Kobe Bryant being 2nd in the league in scoring? Because Kobe lacks the same characteristics of Terrell Owens.

So when T.O wins a Super Bowl, he can do whatever he likes...right???

Yep.

And some people arent great leaders, not everyone is blessed with that characteristic, but there are roughly 160 NFL WRs and only about 5 can make a case they are better then T.O.

And if those same five acted in the same manner in which Owens does, they'd get blasted just the same (just as Randy Moss does).

And the Ravens had the 6th best defense in the league, not the first...

Do you really belive that yards allowed per game decides who has the best defense?

As an example: Tennessee finished ahead of Baltimore in yardage allowed in 2002...the year the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Now, do you think the Titans had the better defense that year?

Maybe I missed a quote of T.O but from what I read T.O. said "I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl." (which McNabb says he didnt get tired) Where did T.O. bring up the three INTs.

I don't remember McNabb admitting as such either. 'Course, McNabb's not a total moron and wouldn't admit anything like that even if it was painfully obvious.

But when your starting Center and one of the starting WRs admits that somebody else was calling the plays in the huddle at the end of the game, do you think this was because McNabb thought it'd be really cool or because he was unable to?

So, T.O. risked further injury to his ankle for personal glory??? Yeah, right. T.O. does everything in his power to win, he may want people to look at him but at the end of the day, he just wants the 'W'

I agree he does everything in his power to win. And in a sense, that's what seperates him from the really great players. The really great players have the power to make their teammates better by sheer will at times. I'm sure Owens would use this power if he could but he can't. He's too caught up in his self to understand how. Simple fact.

 

[Fiddy]

Did his team win? No. Want to know what was a big factor? Because Owens doesn't have what it takes to make his teammates better. Do you want to know why the Lakers won't make the playoffs this season despite Kobe Bryant being 2nd in the league in scoring? Because Kobe lacks the same characteristics of Terrell Owens.

It's harder to make players around you better in football than it is basketball. There are 11 guys on the field for a team in football, only 5 for basketball. I dont understand how you can say that was a big factor. It's not his fault that he has a first round bust and a guy afraid to go over the middle as his supporting WRs. And it's not like he is a QB and has the ball in his hands every play or a RB that touches it 30 times a game. On a good day, T.O. would see the ball around 8-9 times.

Do you really belive that yards allowed per game decides who has the best defense?

As an example: Tennessee finished ahead of Baltimore in yardage allowed in 2002...the year the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Now, do you think the Titans had the better defense that year?

Well, ok lets not go by YPG then. I'd still would of taken the Pats, 'Skins, Eagles and Steelers defense over the Ravens defense.

 

[Huge]

It's harder to make players around you better in football than it is basketball. There are 11 guys on the field for a team in football, only 5 for basketball. I dont understand how you can say that was a big factor. It's not his fault that he has a first round bust and a guy afraid to go over the middle as his supporting WRs. And it's not like he is a QB and has the ball in his hands every play or a RB that touches it 30 times a game. On a good day, T.O. would see the ball around 8-9 times.

So would it be fair to say that a player that might only touch the ball 8 to9 times a game doesn't have the impact on the game that he thinks he does? Which in turn would mean he needs to keep his mouth shut. Agreed?

Well, ok lets not go by YPG then. I'd still would of taken the Pats, 'Skins, Eagles and Steelers defense over the Ravens defense.

Yeah, and you also used the Browns as a measuring stick for evaluating talent earlier.

 

[Fiddy]

So would it be fair to say that a player that might only touch the ball 8 to9 times a game doesn't have the impact on the game that he thinks he does? Which in turn would mean he needs to keep his mouth shut. Agreed?

I didnt say he couldnt impact a game, I said it was harder for him to make his teammates better. He constantly drew double coverage but Mitchell still couldnt get open and Pinkston would pull up every thime he saw a safety. Kickers can play a total of 8 plays and have an impact on the game. Explain to me how a WR is suppose to make the guys around him better. He could make a QB better but a WR has little effect on the other 9 players on the field. And with Owens on the field, McNabb put together his best season in the pros so Owens did make his QB better.

Yeah, and you also used the Browns as a measuring stick for evaluating talent earlier.

So you would take the Ravens defense over the Patriots defense??? And as much as the Browns do stink, they are still a NFL team and NFL teams have to have some talent. That's why I didnt think the Texans choked against them at the end of last season. The Browns, along with the other 31 teams in the league, get paid to play. And Jeff Garcia must of sucked more than Owens because he couldnt make his teammates better so I'm led to believe that Owens made Garica better.

 

[Huge]

I didnt say he couldnt impact a game, I said it was harder for him to make his teammates better. He constantly drew double coverage but Mitchell still couldnt get open and Pinkston would pull up every thime he saw a safety. Kickers can play a total of 8 plays and have an impact on the game. Explain to me how a WR is suppose to make the guys around him better. He could make a QB better but a WR has little effect on the other 9 players on the field. And with Owens on the field, McNabb put together his best season in the pros so Owens did make his QB better.

Can he spend more time in the film room with the other WRs to help show them tendencies of DBs? Yes. Can he help them with their run blocking technique by offering tips? Yes. Can he make the CBs on his team better by staying after practice? Yes. Does he do any of this? No. Why? Because he's not a team player.

Seriously, how are you not getting this?

So you would take the Ravens defense over the Patriots defense???

Absolutely. But I'd take the (former) Patriots defensive co-ordinator over Baltimore's.

And as much as the Browns do stink, they are still a NFL team and NFL teams have to have some talent. That's why I didnt think the Texans choked against them at the end of last season. The Browns, along with the other 31 teams in the league, get paid to play.

Then I guess it's a wonder every team doesn't finish 8-8 every year.

And Jeff Garcia must of sucked more than Owens because he couldnt make his teammates better so I'm led to believe that Owens made Garica better.

Again...you're back to the (lack of) talent in Cleveland. Jeff Garcia couldn't make the Browns winners so he sucks? Peyton Manning has yet to put the Colts in the Super Bowl. Does he suck?

I'm not saying he's a great QB. I'm not even saying he's a good QB. I'd just like to see Owens evidence as to why Garcia is a bad QB.

 

[Fiddy]

Can he spend more time in the film room with the other WRs to help show them tendencies of DBs? Yes. Can he help them with their run blocking technique by offering tips? Yes. Can he make the CBs on his team better by staying after practice? Yes. Does he do any of this? No. Why? Because he's not a team player.

Did you read an article that said he didnt??? T.O. maybe the only NFL star to go 100% in practice and that is widely known. And tell me which WR does all those things, please do tell me.

Seriously, how are you not getting this?

I'm not getting this because all his teammates have said he is a team player with some off field issues. Not one of his teammates have complained about him as the football player.

Absolutely. But I'd take the (former) Patriots defensive co-ordinator over Baltimore's.

I can respect that opinion, I dont agree with it though. And if your going to judge players by if they win the big game that season, the Ravens didnt even make the playoffs. Shouldnt of Ray Lewis sat with Boller to show him his tendinces or sit with the WRs to teach them to read zone coverages better.

Then I guess it's a wonder every team doesn't finish 8-8 every year.

Well, naturaly, some teams have more talent than others but everyone is a professional for a reason.

Again...you're back to the (lack of) talent in Cleveland. Jeff Garcia couldn't make the Browns winners so he sucks? Peyton Manning has yet to put the Colts in the Super Bowl. Does he suck?

I'm not saying he's a great QB. I'm not even saying he's a good QB. I'd just like to see Owens evidence as to why Garcia is a bad QB.

With T.O., Garcia was a Pro Bowler, without T.O. Garcia was released. With T.O., Donovan McNabb had a QB rating of 104.7, without T.O., McNabb never posted one better than 86. With T.O., McNabb also completed 64 percent of his passes, without T.O., McNabb never completed more than 58.4 percent of his passes. Garcia looked good with the Niners cause he had T.O. to throw to. McNabb had a great season last year because T.O. was on the field.

 

[TexansTrueFan]

personally ya ever just not like some one and have no reason,,,thats the way i feel about T.O, he has never done anything to make me not like him,,,he just dont seem like a very likable person,,,and there for i dont like him simple enough ????

 

[WWJD]

1. It's probably not a good idea if you are a receiver to put down your QB in the press. You might just get a ball thrown at places you don't want it to be thrown at. By accident of course.

2. I can't stand the Eagles but to me McNabb is the cog in that machine that they can't do without. Terrell is a big time playmaker but McNabb is the key to that team.

3. Terrell would be tolerable if he'd learn the NFL doesn't revolve around him. Or the Eagles for that matter.

4. One way for any team to self destruct is to have this little in-fighting amongst guys. Reid better defuse this at their first practice or we'll be reading little snippets from them all year.

 

[NorthAmericanElephant]

Hello one and all...This is my first time on this board.

In truth, I'm a Bears fan... ...but I love football and all the talk of...I'm not a "troll" and not here to cause trouble (I'll leave that to cowboy fans...) Just here to talk 'ball.

T.O.

Because of the way the NFL contract system works, I say let him fly. Let him ask for more money. I don't think that the Eagles should just bow to his wants, but he can ask for more money.

Since the money in the NFL is not garunteed, its a what have you done for me latley league on both side (players and management). You dont play well...your cut, and goodbye big money. You play great...you want to be paid as such.

I'm not justifing anyone...just observing.

 

[NorthAmericanElephant]

I 100% agree!!!!

You DO NOT call out a team member to the press.

Directally or indirect as T.O. did.

 

[Huge]

Did you read an article that said he didnt??? T.O. maybe the only NFL star to go 100% in practice and that is widely known. And tell me which WR does all those things, please do tell me.

For one, Marvin Harrison. Do you think Reggie Wayne's and Brandon Stoakley's emergence has had nothing to do with Harrison help? THAT is an example of a player making his teammates better.

I'm not getting this because all his teammates have said he is a team player with some off field issues. Not one of his teammates have complained about him as the football player.

Yeah, and McNabb said he wasn't tired in the Super Bowl. Do you honestly believe everything that comes out of these players' mouths?

I can respect that opinion, I dont agree with it though. And if your going to judge players by if they win the big game that season, the Ravens didnt even make the playoffs. Shouldnt of Ray Lewis sat with Boller to show him his tendinces or sit with the WRs to teach them to read zone coverages better.

Who said anything about judging players based on "that season"? Ray Lewis has a ring...Owens doesn't. Is it that difficult?

Your second comment isn't worth replying to but I'm beginning to believe you really don't know what you're talking about. Ever heard of guys like Jamie Sharper, Terrell Suggs, Peter Boulware, Ed Reed, Chris McCalister? All have said Lewis has been a major factor for their success because he takes the time to help them. Do you see him standing on the sidelines bitching out the D-Coordinator for not lining him up in certain positions so he can make more tackles? I haven't. Have we seen Owens do this?

Well, naturaly, some teams have more talent than others but everyone is a professional for a reason.

Same reason Jeff Garcia is a professional?

With T.O., Garcia was a Pro Bowler, without T.O. Garcia was released. With T.O., Donovan McNabb had a QB rating of 104.7, without T.O., McNabb never posted one better than 86. With T.O., McNabb also completed 64 percent of his passes, without T.O., McNabb never completed more than 58.4 percent of his passes. Garcia looked good with the Niners cause he had T.O. to throw to. McNabb had a great season last year because T.O. was on the field.

Or was McNabb just having a better season and would have upped his QB rating w/o Owens...

McNabb's QB rating after Owens' injury:

Week 14 - 156.3 (only 3 attempts)
Week 15 - Did not play
Week 16 - 111.4
Week 17 - 111.1

McNabb's rating in the playoffs - 94.6 And you better believe that took a nosedive after Owens came back for the Super Bowl and McNabb tossed 3 INTs. So you can imagine what is was in the two games before the Super Bowl (when he didn't have Owens).

 

[Youngstown Colt]

And if your going to judge players by if they win the big game that season, the Ravens didnt even make the playoffs. Shouldnt of Ray Lewis sat with Boller to show him his tendinces or sit with the WRs to teach them to read zone coverages better.

Ray Lewis is one of the best leaders in sports. Everytime I get my sports illustrated, there's another story about ray lewis teaching these defensive players how to handle themselves. Teaching Ed Reed how to watch film, and how to conduct himself outside of football. How he teaches Suggs to get the most out of his potential. I heard Gary Baxter talk about his influence for damn near 5 minutes in his press conference after signing with the browns.

You got to pick a better example than that. There are a lot of players that make their teammates better, Owens isn't one of em.