Why some people don't like Kevin Walter

[HoustonFrog]

a'davis' fumble in the endzone might be something i never let go. maybe i will, but i doubt it...holding the ball out like that makes it so unsecured that i'm sure i could strip him, or my sister, or baby infant jesus could...that's just...dumb.

getting the ball manhandled out of your grasp doesn't sit well with me either, although i thought he was clearly down as he had possession, a knee down, and contact from a defender. but, twas an interception.

I'm there with you. That is a tide-turner and pretty much changes the way the Jags had to play offense. They are on their heals to they really can play their own brand of ball. Its frustrating because from the one and a guy persuing you can wrap both arms around it and fall forward and make it. It was simply dumb.

 

[76Texan]

Don't kid yourself...he will keep making mistakes...they all do. The great ones make plays to overcome their mistakes.

Exactly!

Will MS be able to overcome not only his mistakes, but those of others on the team as well, that is the question.

As Kubiak said, with Matt, they are trying to work with him to become better than just an average QB.

IMO, MS is on schedule as far as the learning curve.
He's not ahead, he's not behind.

 

[Vinny]

Exactly!

Will MS be able to overcome not only his mistakes, but those of others on the team as well, that is the question.

As Kubiak said, with Matt, they are trying to work with him to become better than just an average QB.

IMO, MS is on schedule as far as the learning curve.
He's not ahead, he's not behind.

We would be 1-5 without Schaub. He lead us to a come from behind victory over the Panthers, he was moving the team between the 20's and giving us a shot to beat the Dolphins when we had zero skill guys healthy besides him. Without that last min drive from the 3 yard line in a critical situation we don't win that game. That was something Carr could not do...when we needed a big drive it was always 3 and out. When we needed a garbage time TD it was a 5 yard dinkfest against prevent defenses till we scored with Carr. Schaub avoided at least 4 drive killing sacks last Sunday with his pocket awareness and feel for the game.

 

[76Texan]

I do not understand your point in the last post, Vinny.

 

[Vinny]

I do not understand your point in the last post, Vinny.

I'm elaborating on your point...if he was not playing up to expectations we would be 1-5. I can't see victories in those two games with our old QB at the helm. I think most of us who are reasonable expect him to improve as he gains experience...but so far he has been a breath of fresh air.

 

[76Texan]

I'm elaborating on your point...if he was not playing up to expectations we would be 1-5. I can't see victories in those two games with our old QB at the helm. I think most of us who are reasonable expect him to improve as he gains experience...but so far he has been a breath of fresh air.

Agree! We can all use some fresh air!

But honestly, I don't know what record we would have if Carr is still here.
Probably best that I don't think about it, LOL!

 

[BigBull17]

We just went from one of the most awful QB's in the NFL with the least amount of pocket presence to a guy who is probably top 5 when it comes to getting that ball out of his hands...you guys really are nitpicking this way too much. Schaub really avoided several sacks Sunday and gets that ball out in a hurry...you just aren't going to be able to look good 100% of the time if your team can't run the ball. The Titans have nothing but praise for his pocket awareness.

Good point. Schaub wasnt the only QB to give up a fumble Sunday. Anyone know who it was?

 

[HOU-TEX]

Good point. Schaub wasnt the only QB to give up a fumble Sunday. Anyone know who it was?

Culpepper

 

[santo]

Good point. Schaub wasnt the only QB to give up a fumble Sunday. Anyone know who it was?

Brady

 

[Double Barrel]

Brady

Who was also sacked 3 times, too, IIRC.

 

[BigBull17]

Culpepper

Close, the guy Im thinking about has a little more Hardware.

 

[Specnatz]

Don't kid yourself...he will keep making mistakes...they all do. The great ones make plays to overcome their mistakes.

Was not my point. I know he will make mistakes but I was referring to that mistake in particular. Where he held the ball out in front and it was an easy strip.

 

[New_Texans]

Hes not a number 1, he can catch all the balls he want and eat up yards but he can't score touchdowns with is YAC ability. Hes a number 2-3...We really need to have Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones, and Walter out there. Two burners and two clutch receivers (including Daniels).

 

[Runner]

Who was also sacked 3 times, too, IIRC.

Brady, huh? Did they score any offensive touchdowns?

 

[Malloy]

Honestly I had no feelings about him as a player, neither good nor bad before last sunday. Kevin Walter did impress me and I hope he keeps doing that!

 

[BigBull17]

Brady, huh? Did they score any offensive touchdowns?

Yeah, but is their # 3 David Anderson?

 

[Texanmike02]

props to you KJ3, Walter's showing why Kubes was so high on him in the 1st place. I remember in previous threads folks were wondering why he wasn't doing more & he should be demoted to 3rd string b/c of it.

Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.

Schaub's deep ball has been less than impressive. He's missed several receivers deep. One of the reason I haven't given him an A when I reviewed the games.

You must be able to hit that deep ball especially when your receiver gets a step.

as far as KW... He has EXCELLENT hands. I think the best on the team. He's not the best athlete on the team but he runs very crisp routes and shields the ball with is body well when catching in traffic. He is a classic possession receiver. As Schaub works on his game... he will be a valuable part of this offense.

Mike

 

[BigBull17]

Schaub's deep ball has been less than impressive. He's missed several receivers deep. One of the reason I haven't given him an A when I reviewed the games.

You must be able to hit that deep ball especially when your receiver gets a step.

as far as KW... He has EXCELLENT hands. I think the best on the team. He's not the best athlete on the team but he runs very crisp routes and shields the ball with is body well when catching in traffic. He is a classic possession receiver. As Schaub works on his game... he will be a valuable part of this offense.

Mike

I agree he has had a few bad deep throws, but at least he freakin throws them. YKW was so scared of makeing mistakes he refused to throw them. You cant be that way. He will get his aim down and learn the placing he needs. But other than that, he has been having a great year.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I likes these Kevins Walters.

 

[Texanmike02]

I agree he has had a few bad deep throws, but at least he freakin throws them. YKW was so scared of makeing mistakes he refused to throw them. You cant be that way. He will get his aim down and learn the placing he needs. But other than that, he has been having a great year.

That may be true. But I'm pretty much done measuring players on our roster today by the standards set in the past. MS has to be judged on his own merit. That really goes for the whole team. Especially when talking about what their skill set is.

Mike

 

[Fox]

Do you guys think the short throws on deep routes are an issue with accuracy, arm strength, or timing? It's probably a little of each, but I've seen some posters and Lance Zierlein refer to it as an arm strength issue. On Andre's 70 some odd yard TD to start the season he didn't have to slow down for the ball, so we know Schaub has the ability to hit the deep ball on the money. I've also seen him overthrow receivers deep so I don't think it's all arm strength. I tend to think at this point he may be just throwing the ball too late and not throwing it too deep for fear of overthrowing his target.

It's not a horrible problem, a 30-40 yard reception is still a 30-40 yard reception, but if he can get the timing worked out to hit them in stride we're going to score more touchdowns and force teams to keep their safeties back.

 

[Texanmike02]

Do you guys think the short throws on deep routes are an issue with accuracy, arm strength, or timing? It's probably a little of each, but I've seen some posters and Lance Zierlein refer to it as an arm strength issue. On Andre's 70 some odd yard TD to start the season he didn't have to slow down for the ball, so we know Schaub has the ability to hit the deep ball on the money. I've also seen him overthrow receivers deep so I don't think it's all arm strength. I tend to think at this point he may be just throwing the ball too late and not throwing it too deep for fear of overthrowing his target.

It's not a horrible problem, a 30-40 yard reception is still a 30-40 yard reception, but if he can get the timing worked out to hit them in stride we're going to score more touchdowns and force teams to keep their safeties back.

I'm not sure. Judging from what I've seen its a timing/accuracy issue if you ask me. I've seen him make long throws... longer than some of the ones he misses on. It seems to be a placement issue if you ask me. Take for example the one to AD on the right sideline in the ATL game. It was thrown over the wrong shoulder (unless I suppose AD was supposed to leave more room on the sideline when he ran his route).... AD had to turn and contort his body and wasn't able to reel it in. That throw was about as deep as he's been asked to throw the ball, other than the one he under threw KW to in the Miami game on the left side.... maybe he's trying to lay it in there with too much touch... because KW did have his man beat when he got to that spot.. he just had to wait for the ball If its thrown at a lower trajectory its prob 6.

Mike

 

[BigBull17]

That may be true. But I'm pretty much done measuring players on our roster today by the standards set in the past. MS has to be judged on his own merit. That really goes for the whole team. Especially when talking about what their skill set is.

Mike

That wasnt really my goal to compair the two. I just said that to win in this leauge, you have to take that chance. If you dont, then D's can just take the away the shallow/intermediate and you're dead in the water. It happened to use repeatedly in the past, and to Tampa with Brad Johnson. If there is no threat deep, its harder to play offense. Thus, even if he hasnt had sucess that he wants, he still has shown the ballz to let it rip. So, as a defense, you cant shorten your coverage against us. I guess I should have been more clear.

I know it sounds like rambling, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Texanmike02]

That wasnt really my goal to compair the two. I just said that to win in this leauge, you have to take that chance. If you dont, then D's can just take the away the shallow/intermediate and you're dead in the water. It happened to use repeatedly in the past, and to Tampa with Brad Johnson. If there is no threat deep, its harder to play offense. Thus, even if he hasnt had sucess that he wants, he still has shown the ballz to let it rip. So, as a defense, you cant shorten your coverage against us. I guess I should have been more clear.

I know it sounds like rambling, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

 

[BigBull17]

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

Yeah, he had a better touch early. I know people dont want to hear psyco babble, but I think he was so worried about throwing a pick, he let it get to him. Of corse, he started throwing them and then became scared to even think about it.

On a side note, Im completly not on topic. So, I have no idea why poeple get wierd on Walter. I guess its because he is nothing like you would expect your #2 to look like. He isnt fast. He isnt a huge guy. He isnt a fantastic leaper. He just does all the blue collor things that make you successful. Hes not gonna get you 150 every game. Hes not a 2 TD a game guy. Hes not a YAC guy. He will just catch 5 balls for around 50-70 yards, and 4 of them will be first downs.

I will admit, I think Davis gives us our best threat opposite Dre, but Walter should be on this team for a while as a #3. When Jacoby is ready, he will still be there and thats not a bad thing. You could do worse at the spot than Walter. Remember Corey Bradford?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

I've always thought he injured something in his rotator cuff and lost the strength necessary to make those throws. I've said that before and been told that I was wrong. But something happened to make him stop throwing the deep ball.

 

[Texanmike02]

I've always thought he injured something in his rotator cuff and lost the strength necessary to make those throws. I've said that before and been told that I was wrong. But something happened to make him stop throwing the deep ball.

didn't he separate it or something at one point? Because I know the last two or 3 years he just couldn't throw it... the few times he tried they weren't the same.

Mike

 

[Mr teX]

didn't he separate it or something at one point? Because I know the last two or 3 years he just couldn't throw it... the few times he tried they weren't the same.

Mike

Eh, i know in 1 of our buffalo games something happened to his throwing shoulder, but i don't think arm strengh was the issue with his deep ball towards the end of his tenure here. he just got so paranoid of throwing a pick that he often times just tried to throw it where no one, not even his WR, could catch it.

 

[infantrycak]

I'm not sure. Judging from what I've seen its a timing/accuracy issue if you ask me. I've seen him make long throws... longer than some of the ones he misses on. It seems to be a placement issue if you ask me. Take for example the one to AD on the right sideline in the ATL game. It was thrown over the wrong shoulder (unless I suppose AD was supposed to leave more room on the sideline when he ran his route).... AD had to turn and contort his body and wasn't able to reel it in. That throw was about as deep as he's been asked to throw the ball, other than the one he under threw KW to in the Miami game on the left side.... maybe he's trying to lay it in there with too much touch... because KW did have his man beat when he got to that spot.. he just had to wait for the ball If its thrown at a lower trajectory its prob 6.

Mike

It is timing and accuracy, but it may not all be on the QB. Classic counter example from Brady last week. Watson down the middle with the DB tight on his left shoulder. Brady throws the ball to the left of the DB and then Watson breaks across the front of the DB and gets the ball. Watson isn't on the same page with Brady on that play and the ball looks horribly mis-thrown. A lot of stuff happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand--receivers changing pace, direction, looking over a different shoulder than anticipated, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all that a new QB operating with backup receivers is going to have some miscommunication/timing for a while.

For comparison sake:

Matt Schaub 31-40 yards in the air--71.4% 40+ yards--50%
HWWNBN (career) 31-40 yards--39% 40+ yards--23%
Manning (the good one--last three years) 31-40 yards--65% 40+ yards--50%

 

[Texans_Chick]

It is timing and accuracy, but it may not all be on the QB. Classic counter example from Brady last week. Watson down the middle with the DB tight on his left shoulder. Brady throws the ball to the left of the DB and then Watson breaks across the front of the DB and gets the ball. Watson isn't on the same page with Brady on that play and the ball looks horribly mis-thrown. A lot of stuff happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand--receivers changing pace, direction, looking over a different shoulder than anticipated, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all that a new QB operating with backup receivers is going to have some miscommunication/timing for a while.

True. Also, it is hard to say how Schaub's thigh bruise suffered a couple of weeks ago has affected his throwing. I've seen some wicked thigh bruises, and it's not like you just ran into the side of your desk or something. If they are bad enough, you can get a divot in your muscle and it kills you to walk

 

[infantrycak]

True. Also, it is hard to say how Schaub's thigh bruise suffered a couple of weeks ago has affected his throwing. I've seen some wicked thigh bruises, and it's not like you just ran into the side of your desk or something. If they are bad enough, you can get a divot in your muscle and it kills you to walk

Kubiak said the bruise on his thigh was so bad blood had pooled down into his calf. Ouch.

 

[76Texan]

Due to various reasons, and with the sample being so small, I think it's to early to really gauge Matt's long ball efficiency.

 

[A Texan]

6'3" 215 is pretty nice size for a reciever. he's not fast, but he's not slow either. i can't find his 40 time anywhere but i'll bet it's not that much different from anyone else...i still think johnson, walter, jones give us the best mix of everything you want to see recievers doing. davis coughing up the ball twice at jacksonville is something i'll take my time in getting over.

Walter's 40 time is usually quoted as being in the mid 4.5's