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Why is everyone calling for a LB?

The bigger question, that seems to have been ignored in this discussion, is what kind of defensive scheme will Frank Bush implement?
I've heard that he wants to bring pressure. Cool. It would be great if our D dictated the action rather than the read & react

But what does that really mean? Does that mean we draft a speed rushing DE that only plays one down out of three? If so, that's NOT the way to spend a 1st rd pick IMO.

Orrrr does that mean we draft a OLB that is a blitzing maniac? Is there a OLB out there that can blitz AND cover? DeMeco can blitz with the best of them but coverage isn't the strongest part of his game. We don't have enough info on Diles/Adibi to know if one of them is that guy. Not yet.

You guys who track college ball should know. what say you?

Me, if Oher was available I get him and move one of our tackles inside to RG.
 
Okay, I do agree with you why are we picking a linebacker in the first round. My take is that we should go after a defensive back either a hard hitting safety or cornerback. Which, in this draft doesn't seem to have good ones coming out that I have seen. but, if the Texans could move up in the draft and get in the top ten to get either a good offensive lineman, or a defensive tackle then we could be in business. I just do not like Travis Johnson, I don't think he plays to his potential. I think we need a big DT to help out with the run. but, i do believe we have enough depth in the linebacker position.

Go Frank Bush, Smash them in the mouth!!! This is your defense now, take us to the championship!!!
 
Texans#1Fan said:
Okay, I do agree with you why are we picking a linebacker in the first round. My take is that we should go after a defensive back either a hard hitting safety or cornerback. Which, in this draft doesn't seem to have good ones coming out that I have seen. but, if the Texans could move up in the draft and get in the top ten to get either a good offensive lineman, or a defensive tackle then we could be in business. I just do not like Travis Johnson, I don't think he plays to his potential. I think we need a big DT to help out with the run. but, i do believe we have enough depth in the linebacker position.

Go Frank Bush, Smash them in the mouth!!! This is your defense now, take us to the championship!!!
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We don't even have 3 good starters, let alone any depth.
 
DBCooper said:
We don't even have 3 good starters, let alone any depth.
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Demeco, Diles, Adibi... Bentley, CThompson, Coley.

Why are you so sure that Diles and Adibi aren't good starters? And, if you don't consider Bentley to be a very good backup then you've been staring at Probowl lineups for too long. And, just because CThompson was injured last year doesn't mean he isn't a quality player. He can do a lot of things, including rush the passer and has had success in the NFL with a pretty bad team (Cleveland).
 
dalemurphy said:
Demeco, Diles, Adibi... Bentley, CThompson, Coley.

Why are you so sure that Diles and Adibi aren't good starters? And, if you don't consider Bentley to be a very good backup then you've been staring at Probowl lineups for too long. And, just because CThompson was injured last year doesn't mean he isn't a quality player. He can do a lot of things, including rush the passer and has had success in the NFL with a pretty bad team (Cleveland).
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You make Diles and Adibi the backups and get 2 better LB's and we'll be talking depth.

Diles played well. Will he continue?

Adibi showed some promise. Is he the blitzing threat we need?

I've been watching our LB's and I don't know if it was Richard Smith and his "Lack of" scheme, or if it was the talent of the LB's, but our interior is a major weakness, against the TE, the run, WR through the middle, or just plain slowness to the ball.
 
dalemurphy said:
Nobody is arguing about Diles' career. Simply, that his body of work last year gives reason to believe he can/will be a good LB going forward.
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Bennett showed as much as Diles did. Reeves is being proclaimed the best DB on the team last year. Molden is still a ? floating around in the background. There's little doubt IMO that another CB and probably DB/S will be picked too so I guess I see as many answers and questions at LB as I do at DB. There's one guy and a few around him who have shown a little bit. I guess I'd rather improve the front 7/controlling the run than the pass coverage in the first, especially when getting a good DB value at 15 looks slim.
 
TimeKiller said:
Bennett showed as much as Diles did. Reeves is being proclaimed the best DB on the team last year. Molden is still a ? floating around in the background. There's little doubt IMO that another CB and probably DB/S will be picked too so I guess I see as many answers and questions at LB as I do at DB. There's one guy and a few around him who have shown a little bit. I guess I'd rather improve the front 7/controlling the run than the pass coverage in the first, especially when getting a good DB value at 15 looks slim.
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I'm not opposed to improving the LB position and I agree that there are question marks with Adibi and Diles. My point is that there will be question marks with rookies that we bring in as well. And, since we have good depth and young, talented players who have displayed some promise on the NFL field, I would be hesitant to spend our premium resources in the draft on a LB unless he was clearly the best player on the board.

I'll freely admit it's possible Diles will flatline and/or Adibi won't be able to stay on the field. However, with Bentley, Thompson, and Coley behind them, I feel good about giving those guys and opportunity. Meanwhile, behind Slaton we have Chris Brown and Ryan Moats. Behind Myers, Briesel, and Pitts we have Kasey bleeping Studdard and Chris White. We know for a fact that we need to improve our talent level at those positions. LB could be a strength, as is.
 
Historyhorn said:
Here is a possibility to improve the LB position:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/032309dnspocowlede.3e5cc0f.html

He can play OLB in the 4-3 and the article indicates he has good coverage skills on TE and slot situations.

Give up a third this year and address other needs.

Go Texans
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He has barely seen the field in three year, probably 6th or 7th would get it done. Has not even been a consistent, quality special teamer. May not even be worth the trouble.
 
At USC Pro Day today (Clay Mathews-40 yd-4.57), 30 of the 32 teams were represented. Besides Denver, it was only our own Texans which were notably absent. Does this tell us something, or are we just seeing a deflection "smoke screen?"
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
At USC Pro Day today (Clay Mathews-40 yd-4.57), 30 of the 32 teams were represented. Besides Denver, it was only our own Texans which were notably absent. Does this tell us something, or are we just seeing a deflection "smoke screen?"
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-Got all we needed to see at the Combine?
-"Oh Clay, guess who? That's right, Uncle Bruiser, can I fly you down to meet a few friends of mine?"
-We need an OLB around where he'll be picked. What's debatable is whether or not that trigger gets pulled, not that we don't need him. I don't think the Texans would go through any trouble trying to smoke screen for him. Everybody already knows he's a target for us.
 
TimeKiller said:
-Got all we needed to see at the Combine?
-"Oh Clay, guess who? That's right, Uncle Bruiser, can I fly you down to meet a few friends of mine?"
-We need an OLB around where he'll be picked. What's debatable is whether or not that trigger gets pulled, not that we don't need him. I don't think the Texans would go through any trouble trying to smoke screen for him. Everybody already knows he's a target for us.
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Funny, he had faster times that the WRs.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
At USC Pro Day today (Clay Mathews-40 yd-4.57), 30 of the 32 teams were represented. Besides Denver, it was only our own Texans which were notably absent. Does this tell us something, or are we just seeing a deflection "smoke screen?"
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I cant beleive we werent there. I just dont get it.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
At USC Pro Day today (Clay Mathews-40 yd-4.57), 30 of the 32 teams were represented. Besides Denver, it was only our own Texans which were notably absent. Does this tell us something, or are we just seeing a deflection "smoke screen?"
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http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f8ecee

Further, I believe Clay Mathews is the closest thing I've seen to Derick Brooks since Derick Brooks. Which leads me to believe....he has not only passed Cushing, Rey, he might be the best value at the LB at the fifteen....including Aaron Curry. I also believe his body of work and his high level athleticism he has shown this off season will make it virtually impossible for him to fall to us at the fifteen. While you guys were worrying about whether or not we should draft the guy....I think clubs with more draft ammo have already decided to move up ahead of us to take the guy. He 's too good a talent for this team. He's a rare talent.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
At USC Pro Day today (Clay Mathews-40 yd-4.57), 30 of the 32 teams were represented. Besides Denver, it was only our own Texans which were notably absent. Does this tell us something, or are we just seeing a deflection "smoke screen?"
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Like mussop, this makes no sense to me. Even ignoring Matthews, there are several USC players (including two other probable first round LBs) that are going to be drafted - it seems like it would be an awfully good return on investment to send someone there... A "smoke screen" makes no sense to me, as it doesn't give anything away to go see the pro-day.

Come to think of it, I don't remember reading about the Texans showing up at other pro days (but I might just not be remembering). Maybe this is something that the scouting department doesn't value?
 
keyser said:
Like mussop, this makes no sense to me. Even ignoring Matthews, there are several USC players (including two other probable first round LBs) that are going to be drafted - it seems like it would be an awfully good return on investment to send someone there... A "smoke screen" makes no sense to me, as it doesn't give anything away to go see the pro-day.

Come to think of it, I don't remember reading about the Texans showing up at other pro days (but I might just not be remembering). Maybe this is something that the scouting department doesn't value?
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There's no reason for the Texans to be at the pro day. If they're interested in these LBs, they've already watched all the game tape they needed to see and even went to the combine, why do they need to watch them run around in shorts again?

Pro days are completely overrated and some of y'all are putting way too much stock into them. If Houston is already sold on Matthews or Cushing, there's no reason to go to the pro day.
 
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Carr Bombed said:
There's no reason for the Texans to be at the pro day. If they're interested in these LBs, they've already watched all the game tape they needed to see and even went to the combine, why do they need to watch them run around in shorts again?

Pro days are completely overrated and some of y'all are putting way too much stock into them. If Houston is already sold on Matthews or Cushing, there's no reason to go to the pro day.
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I understand what you're saying, but still, 30 out of the 32 teams felt there was some value in attending. There must be some benefit in going, or teams wouldn't do it. You could make that argument about every team/player (except the players who skipped the combine).

Besides, there were more players there than just Matthews and Cushing (and Sanchez and Maualauga (sp?)). It's odd to me that the Texans would skip out on a pro day for such a major "powerhouse" as USC - not only are there potential players they could target with their first round pick, but there are several lower-ranked players who might still be strong candidates for later round picks, and you get a better chance to see them up close.

It makes me wonder if the Texans just don't value pro days, period. Actually, I think there's a lot to be said for relying on game tape more than pro day (or combine) performances, but it still seems weird for them to skip this pro day in particular.
 
It has to do with Clay Matthews more than anything else - everybody is
in love with him and have fallen deep into group-think (aka as following the sheep heard, conformity, etc.) because of the family connection with
HOF/new Texans coach uncle Bruce.
What we really need is a SAM and Matthews is a 4-3 WIL. Besides even if he could play SAM, people don't use a top-half first round pick on SAMs.
 
nunusguy said:
What we really need is a SAM and Matthews is a 4-3 WIL. Besides even if he could play SAM, people don't use a top-half first round pick on SAMs.
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So are you saying our LBs are as good as the best in the league in pass coverage?

Because I'm not buying that. I think we need upgrades at both SAM & Will. We don't stop the run very well, as a unit, and we don't defend against the pass very well as a unit.
 
nunusguy said:
It has to do with Clay Matthews more than anything else - everybody is
in love with him and have fallen deep into group-think (aka as following the sheep heard, conformity, etc.) because of the family connection with
HOF/new Texans coach uncle Bruce.
What we really need is a SAM and Matthews is a 4-3 WIL. Besides even if he could play SAM, people don't use a top-half first round pick on SAMs.
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The connection is only one reason I like him at 15. I guess I just don't understand the finer points of LB classification but Matthews isn't lacking in size, isn't too slow, isn't too weak......what exactly makes him a WLB to you?

What position do you think Aaron Curry is?
 
nunusguy said:
It has to do with Clay Matthews more than anything else - everybody is
in love with him and have fallen deep into group-think (aka as following the sheep heard, conformity, etc.) because of the family connection with
HOF/new Texans coach uncle Bruce.
What we really need is a SAM and Matthews is a 4-3 WIL. Besides even if he could play SAM, people don't use a top-half first round pick on SAMs.[/QUOTE]

Nuns none of them come with a garuantee stamped on their heel. He could slip out of the shower tomorrow break an ankle and never be the athlete he was yesterday.

What I wanna know from you is exactly what does a guy have to do to win you over? From my tree his stock is so high now....there's not a chance in
he77 he'll be on the board at fifteen.

They'd have to move up to get him...which they won't. He's got the total package...heart...speed ...athletism...production..upside....

I'd just like to know...since you just called me a mindless sheep....exactly who has had a better off season than this guy in your book ? Inquiring minds wish to know ? What does a guy have to do to win you over ?

Let's see....He's faster, quicker......than cushing. He's lighter....by six pounds. He runs like a WR.....catches the ball like a TE. The only thing I see Cushing has over Mathews.....is Cushings body grew quicker and got more starts than this guy. that's it. Every other check mark goes to Mathews.

Cushing safer....maybe......but there should be no question now who has the potential to be the best LB on the board in the entire class. Only man love would make a fella fail to see this. Sam ? I'll see you a broke leg and raise you how many missed starts ?
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One last thing...yeah you don't over pay for LBs....but you get a chance at a guy who has the numbers to indicate he could be the next Lawerance Taylor....or Wilbur marshal...or Derick brooks.....a true defensive play maker behind Mario, and your team is comitted to going with 3-4 DE oposite Marrio.....and features the twenty second defense in the league.....how can you sit there and call us mindless sheep ? When by the numbers.....this guy at the linebacker slot could raise the defenses production enough to jump ten spots in the rankings.....win the division out right....take you to the play offs....No you don't pass that up. You draft it. If he's there....which after his show yesterday...he won't be.
 
threetoedpete said:
One last thing...yeah you don't over pay for LBs....but you get a chance at a guy who has the numbers to indicate he could be the next Lawerance Taylor....or Wilbur marshal...or Derick brooks.....a true defensive play maker behind Mario, and your team is comitted to going with 3-4 DE oposite Marrio.....and features the twenty second defense in the league.....how can you sit there and call us mindless sheep ? When by the numbers.....this guy at the linebacker slot could raise the defenses production enough to jump ten spots in the rankings.....win the division out right....take you to the play offs....No you don't pass that up. You draft it. If he's there....which after his show yesterday...he won't be.
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I think everybody is getting a little carried away.

College Production:

Lawrence Taylor
In his junior season he recorded 80 solo tackles, five sacks, and recovered seven fumbles in just an 11-game span. The following season, even though he was already drawing double- and even triple-team coverage, he logged 69 unassisted tackles. Twenty-two of those tackles were losses behind the line of scrimmage and 16 were quarterback sacks. He also recovered three fumbles. His outstanding play earned him All-America honors and was named the Atlantic Coast Conference Player of the Year.
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Link

Wilber Marshall
He was All-American and a finalist for the Lombardi Award in both 1982 and 1983. He made the College Football All-America Team twice (1982, 1983) and left Florida with 343 tackles and school record 23 sacks.
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Link

Derrick Brooks
Awards and honors

* 3x First-team All-ACC (1992–1994)
* 3x All-American (1992–1994)
* ACC Defensive Player of the Year (1993)
* 2x Vince Lombardi Award finalist (1993–1994)
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Link
Career statistics included 274 tackles (153, 121), five interceptions, 8.5 sacks, 13 passes defensed, four forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries. Senior honors included First Team All-America by American Football Coaches, UPI and Walter Camp. Was also a GTE Academic All-America choice. Was First Team All-Atlantic Coast Conference and was selected for Senior Bowl. For second straight year, was a finalist for Vince Lombardi Award, symbolic of nation`s top lineman/linebacker.
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Link

Clay Matthews
Career Stats: 96 tackles, 13.5 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 4 PBU
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Link
Awards
2008 Pro Football Weekly All-American Honorable Mention
2008 All-Pac-10 Second-Team
2008 Rivals.com Second-Team All-American
2006,2007,2008 USC Special Teams Player of the Year
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Link

I would say that coming out of college, Matthews is a far cry from those you previously mentioned. There is potential with Matthews, but a lot more hype than actual production.
 
Well, he couldn't dictate when his body chose to developer. Now could he ? I see what I see....he's the round peg in our round hole....& he's not going to be there at the fifteen....so it's moot.
 
You know a prime candidate to move up would be Tennessee. Bud loves sticking the dagger to us....swithces with New Orleans....Takes Mathews and as a replacement for Bullocks.....we get to see for the next several seasons where he goes. New Orleans gets one of the CB's at a cheaper price....gains some picks. Bud's got egg all over his face over Vincent....might motivate him.
 
TexanAddict said:
:spit:

Yikes
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Well they say he who laughs last ....... What I find amussing is how many people would take a Micheal Johnson based on sheer numbers & body style , and laugh at the suggestion that Clay III has the athleitism at will to make the defense not just good but feared. You know safe is good when you're building.....but there is no question now....that he can play standing up. He is smooth in his back peddle......he has great hands.....he can defeat bigger lineman at the POA....not a reach any more in my book....Just the next guy in line who redefines the LB position. Runs like a WR.....feet like a RB....catches the ball like a TE....a playmaker on both levels of the defense.

I would still move up and take Orakpo....but I believe this guy will mean more to a team in the long run than Orakpo.
 
threetoedpete said:
nunusguy said:
It has to do with Clay Matthews more than anything else - everybody is
in love with him and have fallen deep into group-think (aka as following the sheep heard, conformity, etc.) because of the family connection with
HOF/new Texans coach uncle Bruce.
What we really need is a SAM and Matthews is a 4-3 WIL. Besides even if he could play SAM, people don't use a top-half first round pick on SAMs.[/QUOTE]

Nuns none of them come with a garuantee stamped on their heel. He could slip out of the shower tomorrow break an ankle and never be the athlete he was yesterday.

What I wanna know from you is exactly what does a guy have to do to win you over? From my tree his stock is so high now....there's not a chance in
he77 he'll be on the board at fifteen.

They'd have to move up to get him...which they won't. He's got the total package...heart...speed ...athletism...production..upside....

I'd just like to know...since you just called me a mindless sheep....exactly who has had a better off season than this guy in your book ? Inquiring minds wish to know ? What does a guy have to do to win you over ?

Let's see....He's faster, quicker......than cushing. He's lighter....by six pounds. He runs like a WR.....catches the ball like a TE. The only thing I see Cushing has over Mathews.....is Cushings body grew quicker and got more starts than this guy. that's it. Every other check mark goes to Mathews.

Cushing safer....maybe......but there should be no question now who has the potential to be the best LB on the board in the entire class. Only man love would make a fella fail to see this. Sam ? I'll see you a broke leg and raise you how many missed starts ?
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So now you're telling me that Matthews is No. 1 overall, and not Curry?

And Cushing is maybe safer than Matthews, so what does that make him?
Safer than Curry?

I just want to know the thought process!:cool:
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threetoedpete said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f8ecee

Further, I believe Clay Mathews is the closest thing I've seen to Derick Brooks since Derick Brooks. Which leads me to believe....he has not only passed Cushing, Rey, he might be the best value at the LB at the fifteen....including Aaron Curry. I also believe his body of work and his high level athleticism he has shown this off season will make it virtually impossible for him to fall to us at the fifteen. While you guys were worrying about whether or not we should draft the guy....I think clubs with more draft ammo have already decided to move up ahead of us to take the guy. He 's too good a talent for this team. He's a rare talent.
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Are you really ready to say this guy is the next Derrick Brooks after one season of starting on a USC defense that has a TON of good players on it.

Derrick Brooks college stats: 274 tackles, 13 pass deflections, 8.5 sacks, five interceptions, four forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries

Clay Mathews: 88 tackles, 3 pass deflections, 5.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, four forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries.

Derrick Brooks in college>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Clay Matthews in college.

JMO but it seems pretty apparent.

Let's not get too ga ga over a 40 time, or a catch in a drill.

Let's go back to the game tape and stats before we start calling the guy the next Derrick Brooks.

nunusguy said:
It has to do with Clay Matthews more than anything else - everybody is
in love with him and have fallen deep into group-think (aka as following the sheep heard, conformity, etc.) because of the family connection with
HOF/new Texans coach uncle Bruce.
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I think that is exactly what it is. Then the guy has a great workout and people are ready to say he is the next Derrick Brooks or Lawrence Taylor.
 
I'm saying Clay III's upside of production.....trumps curry's versitillity...

Yes I am.

Laugh away. I know what I saw yesterday. And what I saw was a guy with all the skill sets to become a HOFer. And the odds are...every DC who was there saw it to. Kiper and the rest will criticize because they had him rated so low because of college production. Ridicule anyone who takes him over where they have him ranked.....but this off season, if the process means anything at all....Clay III should be the bell of the ball for anyone looking for a difference maker on defense.....the numbers and work outs say he's a lock.
 
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threetoedpete said:
the numbers and work outs say he's a lock.
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The workouts don't mean anything really. It is just a measure of athleticism.

It's like Vernon Davis, he had a fantastic workout and his numbers were great, but look at him now.

There are many, many examples of this. Vernon Davis is just one example.

ThreeToed, explain how you came up with the "the next Derrick Brooks or Lawrence Taylor" bit. The numbers are nowhere close. The playing time is not even close. The awards aren't even close.

Nothing is close. I really don't see how you came up with that at all.

Did you come up with that simply because he ran a good 40 and caught the ball well in DRILLS?
 
threetoedpete said:
I'm saying Clay III's upside of production.....trumps curry's versitillity...

Yes I am.

Laugh away. I know what I saw yesterday. And what I saw was a guy with all the skill sets to become a HOFer. And the odds are...every DC who was there saw it to. Kiper and the rest will criticize because they had him rated so low because of college production. Ridicule anyone who takes him over where they have him ranked.....but this off season, if the process means anything at all....Clay III should be the bell of the ball for anyone looking for a difference maker on defense.....the numbers and work outs say he's a lock.
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I only wonder because you were so high on Curry before. When I questioned Mayock's putting his value at number one, saying that he's the safest pick in the draft, you agreed with him and went on telling me that Curry can play all 3 spots.

So, I wonder if you can explain to me where you see Curry's floor isand where his ceiling might be?
Same for Cushing and Matthews!
Inquiring mind would like to know, thank you!
 
TexansSeminole said:
Are you really ready to say this guy is the next Derrick Brooks after one season of starting on a USC defense that has a TON of good players on it.

Derrick Brooks college stats: 274 tackles, 13 pass deflections, 8.5 sacks, five interceptions, four forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries

Clay Mathews: 88 tackles, 3 pass deflections, 5.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, four forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries.

Derrick Brooks in college>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Clay Matthews in college.

JMO but it seems pretty apparent.

Let's not get too ga ga over a 40 time, or a catch in a drill.

Let's go back to the game tape and stats before we start calling the guy the next Derrick Brooks.



I think that is exactly what it is. Then the guy has a great workout and people are ready to say he is the next Derrick Brooks or Lawrence Taylor.
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It's not "a" great work out...it's dominating people...tackles, power rushing at the Sr. Bowl.....It's running a faster ten yard split than most WR's at the combine....It's running through the dummies with the feet of a running back...It's standing up and back peddling smoother than all of the safeties on the board.....It' s catching the ball, with his hands, better than most of the tight ends on the board....Not just "the" or "a" work out....

What y'alls problem is....you Kiper and Mcshays' can't get over the "Walk on" tag.

I don't care you guys draft safe....we'll see. Safe guy makes us better....I believe Clay would give us the division out right. Why wouldn't I be excited about that ?

....whatever. I'm going to enjoy watching his career where ever he goes.
 
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threetoedpete said:
It's not "a" great work out...it's dominating peple power rushing at the Sr. Bowl.....It's running a faste ten yard split than most WR's at the combine....It's running through the dummies with the feet of a running back...It's standingup and back peddeling smoother than all of the safteis on the board.....It' s catching the ball, with his hands better than most of the tight ends on the board....Not just the or a work out....

What y'alls problem is....you kiper and Mcshays' can't get over the "Walk on" Tag. I don't care you guys draft safe....we'll see. Safe guy makes us better....I believe Clay would give us the division out right. why wouldn't I be excited about that....whatever.
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You are exaggerating

If Clay was all of those things then he should have shown up more on the actual playing field. Not only that, but if he is all of what you say he is, then he should be a top 10 pick and gone long before we even have a chance to get him.
 
TexansSeminole said:
ThreeToed, explain how you came up with the "the next Derrick Brooks or Lawrence Taylor" bit. The numbers are nowhere close. The playing time is not even close. The awards aren't even close.

Nothing is close. I really don't see how you came up with that at all.
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How do only their last year's compare?

I think TTP has been clear he thinks Matthews developed physically late and therefore is looking more at the recent performance.
 
threetoedpete said:
It's not "a" great work out...it's dominating peple power rushing at the Sr. Bowl.....It's running a faste ten yard split than most WR's at the combine....It's running through the dummies with the feet of a running back...It's standingup and back peddeling smoother than all of the safteis on the board.....It' s catching the ball, with his hands better than most of the tight ends on the board....Not just the or a work out....

What y'alls problem is....you kiper and Mcshays' can't get over the "Walk on" Tag. I don't care you guys draft safe....we'll see. Safe guy makes us better....I believe Clay would give us the division out right. why wouldn't I be excited about that....whatever.
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I was not even aware that he was a walk on so your obviously wrong there.

Everything you just said here is about the workout. Backpeddling in the drill, running through dummies, running a fast ten yard split.

Am I wrong to think you want to make those comparisons based off a workout?

I just think it's a bit much when the guy has played one year of football at the college level. He had a good offseason, having great workouts (happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR with multiple players).

That's his body of work. And from that you are saying:

Next Derrick Brooks
Next Lawrence Taylor
Wins the division out right for us
Puts us into the playoffs
 
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infantrycak said:
How do only their last year's compare?

I think TTP has been clear he thinks Matthews developed physically late and therefore is looking more at the recent performance.
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Derrick Brooks: In nine starts, finished second on team with 77 tackles (41, 36) to go with three interceptions, three sacks, six passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery.

Clay Matthews: In 13 games played (not sure how many starts) finished with 56 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries.

This after Brooks was a first team All-American and ACC Defensive Player of the Year in his junior year and was most certainly keyed on by offensive coordinators in every single game that he played.

Matthews had his first year starting, so offenses aren't focusing on him, they barely know who he is at the beginning of the season. Not to mention this USC defense was better than the FSU defense Brooks played on IMO, by a pretty good margin too.

This is what Derrick Brooks did in his first year starting as a SOPHOMORE:

Earned sophomore All-America honors from Football News and was also a First Team All-ACC choice. Started all 11 games at OLB and produced career-best 98 tackles (55, 43), 3.5 sacks and a fumble recovery.
 
Polo said:
You are exaggerating

If Clay was all of those things then he should have shown up more on the actual playing field. Not only that, but if he is all of what you say he is, then he should be a top 10 pick and gone long before we even have a chance to get him.
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well Pete Carrol just called himself a fool by not playing him more earler. So I guess he agrees with you. He said if he played him earlier....they wouldn't have lost the Oregon game......for what that is worth. Hey I called my shot....we'll see.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I was not even aware that he was a walk on so your obviously wrong there.

Everything you just said here is about the workout. Backpeddling in the drill, running through dummies, running a fast ten yard split.

Am I wrong to think you want to make those comparisons based off a workout?

I just think it's a bit much when the guy has played one year of football at the college level. He had a good offseason, having great workouts (happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR with multiple players).

That's his body of work. And from that you are saying:

Next Derrick Brooks
Next Lawrence Taylor
Wins the division out right for us
Puts us into the playoffs
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Well fine siminole....Draft Everette or Laurenitus and we'll see how it all works out. Why wouldn't I post that if that is what I believe. Play maker at both levels of the defense.... Numbers say he's fast enough to run with Chris Johson....big enough to solidly tackle MJD. Puts pressure on the edge with Mario.....covers....all TEs we will face....Just me but how do you pass that up?

Ah I get it...he was a walk on. Look the guys body chose this time to bloom....you're correct I don't know.....but I gamble on the numbers....and guess what? You basicaly do that with all of them. Look I also said...he's not going to make it to fifteen now...unless we move up...which we won't we won't have a shot at him. I have him ranked top ten....he's answered all of the questions. I don't understand what it is about that...you don't get.
 
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threetoedpete said:
well Pete Carrol just called himself a fool by not playing him more earler. So I guess he agrees with you. He said if he played him earlier....they wouldn't have lost the Oregon game......for what that is worth. Hey I called my shot....we'll see.
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Well yeah, Pete Carrol may have been a fool for not playing him enough the year before when they lost to the Ducks (lost), but he did play plenty this year against both Oregon (won) and Oregon St (lost). Put on those two game tapes and find out!
 
threetoedpete said:
Nuns none of them come with a garuantee stamped on their heel. He could slip out of the shower tomorrow break an ankle and never be the athlete he was yesterday.

What I wanna know from you is exactly what does a guy have to do to win you over? From my tree his stock is so high now....there's not a chance in
he77 he'll be on the board at fifteen.
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I don't necessarily think Matthews or Cushing is an upgrade at WIL over the X-man. You say Adibi is too small at 220 something vs the USC backers who are both reportedly in the 240-250 range ? Not anymore as Adibi has reportedly added 20 lbs in the offseason conditioning program under the weight-training guy. Hey if the Trojan guys can beef-up so can the X-man.
And I doubt that either of the Trojan LBs are any more athletic ?
Now Cushing could play SAM (even though Matthews isn't suited to play that positon), but like I said earlier #15 is just too high for a SAM.
I don't think we draft one of the USC LBs at 15, maybe later in the first round if we trade back into the 20s.
 
Matthews is one of my favorite players in the draft before even considering his genes. I don't care if he only started 1 season, he was on arguably the most talented defense in all of college and he played in 50 games while there. He's got the experience.

All I know is he plays fast, he plays hard and he's a real football player. I think both our front 7 and our back 7 get stronger with him.

Just think of sending him in on a blitz while Adibi and Demeco are covering the middle. Matthews can rush the pass just as good if not better than the other LB/DE guys but I think he's got a much better ability to be a LB and help in coverage than any of the other guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFi0o8GCM9c

I think with his work ethic and the way he plays hard nosed football, he would become a fan favorite.
 
threetoedpete said:
Ah I get it...he was a walk on. Look the guys body chose this time to bloom....you're correct I don't know.....but I gamble on the numbers....and guess what you basicaly do that with all of them. Look I also said...he's not going to make it to fifteen now...unless we move up...which we won't we won't have a shot at him. I have him ranked top ten....he's answered all of the questions. I don't understand what it is about that...you don't get.
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Like I said before, I was not aware that he was a walk on until you said so.

I don't get you saying he is the next Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Brooks when there is absolutely nothing FOOTBALL related that shows that. Maybe he runs around in shorts like Brooks did or Taylor did. But when I watch those guys play football, the difference is very apparent. They are not even close.


That's really what I don't get. Comparing a guy to Derrick Brooks or Lawrence Taylor when he has 1 year of game tape, and the numbers are really not even close.

Clay Matthews has never even recorded an interception in college, and your ready to compare him to Derrick Brooks, who was known for making interceptions and returning them for touchdowns.

That's what I don't get.
 
threetoedpete said:
I'm saying Clay III's upside of production.....trumps curry's versitillity...

Yes I am.

Laugh away. I know what I saw yesterday. And what I saw was a guy with all the skill sets to become a HOFer. And the odds are...every DC who was there saw it to. Kiper and the rest will criticize because they had him rated so low because of college production. Ridicule anyone who takes him over where they have him ranked.....but this off season, if the process means anything at all....Clay III should be the bell of the ball for anyone looking for a difference maker on defense.....the numbers and work outs say he's a lock.
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God, I hope 14 other GM's agree.
 
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