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Why does Fuller always get a pass??

TheRealJoker said:
You've gotta be kidding about that last sentence...

He has one wtf drop a game. We knew it when we drafted him. Last night happened to be a doozy. Doesn't change the fact he's a nice weapon to have to stretch the defense.

My biggest complaint would be that we don't take more shots downfield with him to draw a pass interference flag. Other teams do it. The Pats did it and got Bouye flagged with Hogan on their first td drive.
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No I'm not kidding..have you seen him out run anyone while running his routes. He hasn't track speed but not game NFL Game speed. Antonio brown, tyreek Hill, deshaun Jackson type game seed. I get that he's a rookie but if we don't see improvement in his speed routes and catching abilities, he could very well be a 1st round bust
 
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TheRealJoker said:
You've gotta be kidding about that last sentence...

He has one wtf drop a game. We knew it when we drafted him. Last night happened to be a doozy. Doesn't change the fact he's a nice weapon to have to stretch the defense.

My biggest complaint would be that we don't take more shots downfield with him to draw a pass interference flag. Other teams do it. The Pats did it and got Bouye flagged with Hogan on their first td drive.
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No I'm not kidding..have you seen him out run anyone while running his routes. He hasn't track speed but not game NFL Game speed. Antonio brown, tyreek Hill, deshaun Jackson type game seed. I get that he's a rookie but if we don't see improvement in his speed routes and catching abilities, he could very well be a 1st round bust
EllisUnit said:
Come on so Brock threw one good pass that was dropped that would of been a TD. Fact is he still threw 3 ints.
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and the fact is he threw a game changing ball that fuller dropped. Fuller makes that play and everything changes
 
Brock Osweiler did throw a beautiful pass to Will Fuller.
I remember jumping up and down yelling Touchdown!!!!!
Only for Fuller to drop the ball right through his hands.
That would have made the game very interesting.

As it was we kicked a field goal on the next drive, after an INT, to pull within 24-16 early in the 4th. We still had a fighting chance at that point, but it was apparent we weren't making enough big plays on offense.

But watching Tom Brady throw a few lame ducks into the air, but somehow their receiver finds a way to catch those poorly thrown balls 40+ yards down the field. Or today watching Aaron Rodgers just flick some balls deep down the field and their #3 and #4 receivers "dive for the pass and catch it." Hell the Packers had their top two wideouts out of the game and still Rodgers was completing passes to guys I've never heard of before.

But yet when Brock Osweiler makes a good throw, not even a bad one, our guy, our so-called #2 wideout drops a sure-fire Touchdown. Come on! We've got to make those big plays. We must have tried for seven or eight big plays last night. And we only connected on one of them.

Brock Osweiler played like crap most of the season. He played okay versus the Raiders and in the first half against the Patriots. I was actually surprised with how he played in the playoffs up until that point. But it would have helped if our guys didn't drop so many balls! Some of them hit them right in the damn hands. C.J. even dropped a few wide open passes. Will Fuller dropped the Touchdown that would have made the score very close going into the fourth quarter.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Brock Osweiler did throw a beautiful pass to Will Fuller.
I remember jumping up and down yelling Touchdown!!!!!
Only for Fuller to drop the ball right through his hands.
That would have made the game very interesting.

As it was we kicked a field goal on the next drive, after an INT, to pull within 24-16 early in the 4th. We still had a fighting chance at that point, but it was apparent we weren't making enough big plays on offense.

But watching Tom Brady throw a few lame ducks into the air, but somehow their receiver finds a way to catch those poorly thrown balls 40+ yards down the field. Or today watching Aaron Rodgers just flick some balls deep down the field and their #3 and #4 receivers "dive for the pass and catch it." Hell the Packers had their top two wideouts out of the game and still Rodgers was completing passes to guys I've never heard of before.

But yet when Brock Osweiler makes a good throw, not even a bad one, our guy, our so-called #2 wideout drops a sure-fire Touchdown. Come on! We've got to make those big plays. We must have tried for seven or eight big plays last night. And we only connected on one of them.
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This^^^^. How frustrating was it to watch Tom Brady throw ducks and their receivers are catching them while our defenders are stumbling all over the place.
 
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Redtexans said:
This^^^^. How frustrating was it to watch Tom Brady throw ducks and their receivers are catching them while our defenders are stumbling all over the place.
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After the 2nd or 3rd time, I started to realize that Brady was not just throwing it up w/o a clue. he was targeting a spot that his guy could get to the ball and the Texans guys could look like they were drunk or something. Just one of the things that highlighted the difference between one of the all time best facing a guy who got benched for poor play.
 
and yes Fuller has played to his paper or "he is what we thought was" in terms of speed guy with suspect hands.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
After the 2nd or 3rd time, I started to realize that Brady was not just throwing it up w/o a clue. he was targeting a spot that his guy could get to the ball and the Texans guys could look like they were drunk or something. Just one of the things that highlighted the difference between one of the all time best facing a guy who got benched for poor play.
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Not that I disagree, but those balls were poorly thrown and wobbly ducks with a lot of hang time. Our defenders had plenty of time to react and make a play at the ball. Whether it be intercepted or knocked down. But sadly our guys in the secondary rarely play the ball in the air. They seemingly play the receiver's body movements instead.

That's a major gripe I've had with our secondary for years. I even talked about it as a concern a couple months ago, but somebody tried to ease my concerns (may have been JB) and said that the Texans had the #1 pass defense in the league. I was trying to mention that we need a new defensive backs coach. Because our coverage guys always show poor technique in pass coverage. The stats don't always tell the entire story. Our pass rush was really solid. A lot of times our front seven can mask the problems we have in the secondary.

But I quickly told him back then, watch us play a quarterback like Tom Brady come playoff time and he's going to tear our secondary apart due to the poor fundamentals and lack of discipline that I see from our defensive backs. Sure enough, I saw a lot of that last night. Our defensive backs are playing the receiver and not looking at the ball in the air.

But sadly, we would have still won the game last night if we don't fall apart on special teams (98-yard kickoff return) and if our offense had held its own. We must have left about seven or eight big offensive plays on the table last night. Whether it was a drop pass or Brock Osweiler not being accurate enough. 5 of them appeared to be good passes that were dropped. One being the Will Full Touchdown (should have been Touchdown I should say). I'll blame Brock on three poor throws (too high) when he had a guy with separation.

As shitty as we played, we were trailing 24-16 early in the fourth quarter.
We were in the final quarter still down one score with a chance.
I guess that's all we can ask for even though we never really felt like we were going to win.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Not that I disagree, but those balls were poorly thrown and wobbly ducks with a lot of hang time. Our defenders had plenty of time to react and make a play at the ball. Whether it be intercepted or knocked down. But sadly our guys in the secondary rarely play the ball in the air. They seemingly play the receiver's body movements instead.

That's a major gripe I've had with our secondary for years. I even talked about it as a concern a couple months ago, but somebody tried to ease my concerns (may have been JB) and said that the Texans had the #1 pass defense in the league. I was trying to mention that we need a new defensive backs coach. Because our coverage guys always show poor technique in pass coverage. The stats don't always tell the entire story. Our pass rush was really solid. A lot of times our front seven can mask the problems we have in the secondary.

But I quickly told him back then, watch us play a quarterback like Tom Brady come playoff time and he's going to tear our secondary apart due to the poor fundamentals and lack of discipline that I see from our defensive backs. Sure enough, I saw a lot of that last night. Our defensive backs are playing the receiver and not looking at the ball in the air.

But sadly, we would have still won the game last night if we don't fall apart on special teams (98-yard kickoff return) and if our offense had held its own. We must have left about seven or eight big offensive plays on the table last night. Whether it was a drop pass or Brock Osweiler not being accurate enough. 5 of them appeared to be good passes that were dropped. One being the Will Full Touchdown (should have been Touchdown I should say). I'll blame Brock on three poor throws (too high) when he had a guy with separation.

As shitty as we played, we were trailing 24-16 early in the fourth quarter.
We were in the final quarter still down one score with a chance.
I guess that's all we can ask for even though we never really felt like we were going to win.
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You describing playing tight man coverage versus off-man or even zone. If the Dbs play the ball in tight coverage they will run through the wr and draw a penalty. Brady took advantage of the coverage by throwing away from where the expected coverage was. although they were ducks, the ball went where it was supposed in terms of placement. It was better play by Brady and pats than wrong technique ie. why only exploited by the handful of better offenses.
 
I just don't like defensive backs that don't play the ball in the air.
It's so frustrating and we've had that problem for years and years.

I think we did a better job playing the ball during our early years as a franchise.
Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman were both ballhawks in our secondary that played the ball.

Glenn, in particular, made the pro bowl and won us two games during a 4-12 expansion season in 2002. With some pick six's. Most notably in a 24-6 win at Pittsburgh when we had something like a putrid 46 total yards of offense.

Always play for the ball! I never understand why our defensive backs fall down or draw stupid pass interference calls playing the movement of the receivers body. Look, I understand we have mediocre safeties and that's a big problem to overcome.

But Johnathan Joseph is still a decent cover corner at his old age. And A.J. Bouye has earned himself a nice payday in free agency. He made a couple of good plays last night deflecting Tom Brady passes - just missed an INT on one of them.

I was always a slow runner in high school and college, I played left tackle on the offensive line. But when we would play for fun (shirts versus skins), even with my slow speed I still made plays on the ball playing as a defensive back. I was too slow to catch up to the intended receiver. All I could do was look at the ball in the air and run hard "with my eyes always on the football" trying to knock it away mid air at some point.

Maybe I just view things from a different perspective...
But watching our guys "not playing the ball in the air" is beyond frustrating.
Especially when it's up in the air with a ton of hang time. Like a mini punt.

If you play the freakin' ball good things tend to happen. Or am I wrong?
All I know is if you play the receiver only bad things tend to happen.
You'll be flagged, fall down, or you're not going to make contact with the ball.

How many times do we have to feel frustrated by our poor technique in the secondary? If not for a dominating pass rush and A.J. Bouye playing like a beast most of this year, we'd have given up a lot more big passing plays.

Heck, I bet our secondary would give up a high percentage of Hail Mary passing attempts. Luckily we haven't had to try and defend them that often.
 
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Bulls on Parade said:
I just don't like defensive backs that don't play the ball in the air.
It's so frustrating and we've had that problem for years and years.

I think we did a better job playing the ball during our early years as a franchise.
Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman were both ballhawks in our secondary that played the ball.

Glenn, in particular, made the pro bowl and won us two games during a 4-12 expansion season in 2002. With some pick six's. Most notably in a 24-6 win at Pittsburgh when we had something like a putrid 46 total yards of offense.

Always play for the ball! I never understand why our defensive backs fall down or draw stupid pass interference calls playing the movement of the receivers body. Look, I understand we have mediocre safeties and that's a big problem to overcome.

But Johnathan Joseph is still a decent cover corner at his old age. And A.J. Bouye has earned himself a nice payday in free agency. He made a couple of good plays last night deflecting Tom Brady passes - just missed an INT on one of them.

I was always a slow runner in high school and college, I played left tackle on the offensive line. But when we would play for fun (shirts versus skins), even with my slow speed I still made plays on the ball playing as a defensive back. I was too slow to catch up to the intended receiver. All I could do was look at the ball in the air and run hard "with my eyes always on the football" trying to knock it away mid air at some point.

Maybe I just view things from a different perspective...
But watching our guys "not playing the ball in the air" is beyond frustrating.
Especially when it's up in the air with a ton of hang time. Like a mini punt.

If you play the freakin' ball good things tend to happen. Or am I wrong?
All I know is if you play the receiver only bad things tend to happen.
You'll be flagged, fall down, or you're not going to make contact with the ball.

How many times do we have to feel frustrated by our poor technique in the secondary? If not for a dominating pass rush and A.J. Bouye playing like a beast most of this year, we'd have given up a lot more big passing plays.

Heck, I bet our secondary would give up a high percentage of Hail Mary passing attempts. Luckily we haven't had to try and defend them that often.
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Considering most experts say that our secondary is one of the strongest out there, you might be wrong. Then again, the minority opinion is often wrong until they prove otherwise. Lets not forget that Brady is one of the greatest QB's in history though.
 
gafftop said:
My point is Smith needs to go first. If he doesn't go nothing changes. If he doesn't go we continue to pick players like Miller and Brock as our FAs and Fuller in the first round. No coach is winning the super bowl with them. I am not saying BOB is good.
Many reasons to criticize BOB
See this http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...pete-carroll-failed-coach-underdogs-cost-them
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I'm not going to question Carroll's game plan as he had taken his team to two SBs in just 7 years.
He had proven to be able to prepare his team to play against the big boys.
 
Redtexans said:
Agreed. I was not impressed with him at ND and I'm not impressed now. I keep hearing about his blazing speed but I've never seen him run away for anyone.
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I feel the same way. I kept envisioning a guy open by a yard or two on many plays, and this guy is elusive a sloth.
 
They just mentioned on 610, when you watch all 22 (I don't have it) there are numerous plays every game when Fuller is running wide open three and four steps ahead of the DB and Oz was checking down and not throwing the deep ball to Fuller.
 
Number19 said:
They just mentioned on 610, when you watch all 22 (I don't have it) there are numerous plays every game when Fuller is running wide open three and four steps ahead of the DB and Oz was checking down and not throwing the deep ball to Fuller.
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Yeah I've seen plenty of replays where Fuller has gotten open deep. Osweiler is just too incompetent to take advantage of the receivers we have.
 
Redtexans said:
This^^^^. How frustrating was it to watch Tom Brady throw ducks and their receivers are catching them while our defenders are stumbling all over the place.
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I actually thought the "lame ducks" passes were Brady best throws of the game. The reason he puts a lot of air (no pun intended) on those throws were because of he didn't have time to wait for his receiver to break free because of imminent pass rush so he threw it early but with a little air underneath allowing his wr to maneuver and adjust his mark.

And If you watch enough games and are keen to a defensive backs behavior during a flight of a pass you know that when a ball is in the air that long and when a db is in chase mode, you know that 9 of 10 times they will go from chase mode to panic mode. When you go in panic mode the fundamental decision of turning your head to look for the ball is all forgotten.
 
Dude is looking like the real deal.

Taking the top off the D, not only is he scoring from deep, hes allowing Hopkins to do his thing.

The aerial attack may finally be developing some balance for us here.

Fuller V needs to keep this going, having flashed early last season also, but the signs are positive for me.
 
PapaL said:
Either DW4 catches a more catchable ball or WFV has been working on his hands this offseason. Either way, I'm all for it.
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Interviews with Fuller and Watson were reported in the Chron two weeks ago in which the two said that Fuller was at the practice field during his rehab and, after practice, the two would work together to the extent that the medical staff would allow.
 
Arky said:
If you've seen that gif of him catching the bomb from Watson, he slammed the ground pretty hard.... seems the collar bone is holding up fine...

I'd love to see the Texans attempt a go-route with him at least 2-3 times/game....
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I would like to see that play the first play for the offense to start the game instead of Lamar Miller up the middle.

It's like ground hog day or some cruel joke OB is playing.
 
Texecutioner said:
Yes he has been for the last two games. Good for him. I don't even think he has bobbled a pass either. When he is getting the ball everything opens up. Kudos to him for a strong first two games of a comeback.
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Even as a rookie he put up 635 yards plus contributed on special teams. That even includes slowing down after injury
 
TexansBull said:
I would like to see that play the first play for the offense to start the game instead of Lamar Miller up the middle.

It's like ground hog day or some cruel joke OB is playing.
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It is all part of OB's plan... Miller up the middle first play of the game every game all year, until the first play of the Super Bowl, then he hits them with Miller off tackle!!
 
Mangler said:
WR1 Good!!!!
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I do agree that is where his trajectory could take him. And when you think about what Hopkins strengths are, hes so perfectly suited to the WR2 role that it's only his sheer ability that elevates him to #1, his ability in traffic, with jump balls etc, its actually been the times when there was literally no other threat and QBs have begun forcing it to him that have derailed us. If these 2 are going to have some prime years together, it could trump a pairing of AJ+anyone else we ever put him with for best receiver pairing. And I even include that year with Eric Moulds in that!
 
badboy said:
perhaps like Doc has said, player needs to heal before back on field?
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Unfortunately, the player is necessary to the coaches scheme and can’t be substituted for. Classic symptom of poor coaching.
I mean, Mike Tomlinson has his team in contention and look at the players he’s lost due to injury and poor Gm play.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As I posted before, groin, calf and hamstrings share very similar properties...............they all require significant rest/rehab, they frequently re-injure (moreso in the same season) and they all increase the risk for compensatory injuries when not fully rehabbed. Fuller is a perfect example............and now he has 2 very worrisome soft tissue injuries to account for in his quest to return for the playoffs. Fuller's groin tear is a grade II and itself should be give at least a month of rest/rehab.........not very promising for getting to the playoffs.........and staying in the playoffs.
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So what is the cure here for WFV? Is it a matter of body type, training,bad luck? How does he get past this?
Why are some guys so much more susceptible to soft tissue injuries?
 
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JB said:
So what is the cure here for WFV? Is it a matter of body type, training,bad luck? How does he get past this?
Why are some guys so much more susceptible to soft tissue injuries?
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Risk for these types of injuries are multifactoral.............extrinsic (non genetic)>>>>>>>preparatory training for strength (but not overtraining to fatigue or creating abnormal hypertrophy of muscles, for balancing strength of opposing muscle groups, for playing technique, ensuring proper rest/rehab post injuries, etc)..........and intrinsic>>>>>>>genetics.

Genetics has been found to be a significant risk factor in soft-tissue injuries. Specific genes have been found to red flag these risks.
1577164344943.png
The study of DNA sequences and genes related to connective/soft tissue repair and regeneration can help identify individuals with greater predisposition to injury, who may benefit from targeted preventive measures, and those who will require a longer recovery/rehab time following a muscle or ligament injury.

A familial predisposition and/or an association of specific genetic sequence variants have been presented for conditions affecting the Achilles and rotator cuff tendons, as well as for shoulder dislocation and cruciate ligament ruptures.

With someone like Fuller, you can be sure that he has genetic predisposition for these injuries.................and therefore deserves ultra-attention to ALL those extrinsic factors over which he may still have some extent of control.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Risk for these types of injuries are multifactoral.............extrinsic (non genetic)>>>>>>>preparatory training for strength (but not overtraining to fatigue or creating abnormal hypertrophy of muscles, for balancing strength of opposing muscle groups, for playing technique, ensuring proper rest/rehab post injuries, etc)..........and intrinsic>>>>>>>genetics.

Genetics has been found to be a significant risk factor in soft-tissue injuries. Specific genes have been found to red flag these risks.
View attachment 5208
The study of DNA sequences and genes related to connective/soft tissue repair and regeneration can help identify individuals with greater predisposition to injury, who may benefit from targeted preventive measures, and those who will require a longer recovery/rehab time following a muscle or ligament injury.

A familial predisposition and/or an association of specific genetic sequence variants have been presented for conditions affecting the Achilles and rotator cuff tendons, as well as for shoulder dislocation and cruciate ligament ruptures.

With someone like Fuller, you can be sure that he has genetic predisposition for these injuries.................and therefore deserves ultra-attention to ALL those extrinsic factors over which he may still have some extent of control.
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This post suggests that NFL teams should hire and ancestry.com specialist to work closely with the analytics specialist for a team.
we might end up seeing a prospects genetic classification up there next to his 40 and bench press.
 
DocBar said:
This post suggests that NFL teams should hire and ancestry.com specialist to work closely with the analytics specialist for a team.
we might end up seeing a prospects genetic classification up there next to his 40 and bench press.
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I know what you mean, but you would need a different and much more specific and focused medical DNA testing (by a company such as 23andMe which has conducted such investigations in coordination with the NFL). Ancestry.com only tests genetic ethnicity estimates, so that individuals can help determine their ancestral relationship to other individuals.

Just like in genetic disease DNA testing, it is important to understand that just because an individual carries a certain gene for a disease such as lupus, it does not mean that the individual will definitely develop lupus in his lifetime. Such a disease-specific gene typically would require an extrinsic "trigger"............in the case of lupus, possibly an episode of the flu. Therefore, just because one would have a gene for lupus, he may never clinically develop this disease in his lifetime. So sports DNA testing and analyzing is not as simple as it may seem..................essentially leaving questions on how to use the information you may gain.............and how their interpretation may lead to potential negative "consequences".

Genetic testing is being used in sport – but what are the consequences?
December 7, 2017 6.13am EST
 
gwallaia said:
At what point to the Texans finally part ways with Will Fuller?
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They picked up his 5th year option for next year already. $10.1 million.
Where it’s “guaranteed for injury only” does that mean the Texans can void it if they want?

In either case they need to find a way to make the offence work without him before they think about moving him on, the games per year he is healthy for atm may well be the difference between playoffs and not.
 
If it were me, I would draft either Devin DuVernay or Denzel Mims and then play Stills and Fuller against each other in 2021 to get the best deal knowing that one of them with DuVernay or Mims allows us lose the other.
 
gwallaia said:
At what point to the Texans finally part ways with Will Fuller?
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It won't be before 2021 unless he doesn't renegotiate his 2020 salary of $10+ mill. With a reasonable salary, he is as likely to here for the same reason that Watt will be here.............because when he is able to play, it is hoped that he is potentially a big difference maker. With that said, at this point in time, the return of either does not guarantee we see the potential of the past translate into play in the future.
 
PapaL said:
Nobody can replace WFV’s injuries. Anderson is one of the best deep ball threats in the league and suits on Sundays. 15.5 ypc this season is better than Fuller and .2 off WFV’s career high; plus has played 15 games this season.
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Yeah, people on this site overrate Fuller. Hopkins is the stud on this team. Everyone else is role players, albeit Fuller is a good role player. Someone like Anderson would be an excellent fit. I personally think Stills can be our Robin to Hopkins Batman. I think we need a slightly better Carter to be our 3. Coutee would have been nice, except for he is unreliable.
 
amazing80 said:
Yeah, people on this site overrate Fuller. Hopkins is the stud on this team. Everyone else is role players, albeit Fuller is a good role player. Someone like Anderson would be an excellent fit. I personally think Stills can be our Robin to Hopkins Batman. I think we need a slightly better Carter to be our 3. Coutee would have been nice, except for he is unreliable.
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I'm all in on Stills. Coutee depresses me, he appears to have talent, but seems his head just isn't right. I'm like "come on man, this is the damn NFL and you are living a dream, act like you want to be here."

Of course, the above is based on rumors that he doesn't work hard and often runs wrong or bad routes. Maybe he just doesn't have what it takes.
 
PapaL said:
Nobody can replace WFV’s injuries. Anderson is one of the best deep ball threats in the league and suits on Sundays. 15.5 ypc this season is better than Fuller and .2 off WFV’s career high; plus has played 15 games this season.
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He is not the route runner Fuller is nor does he put the fear in defenses Fuller does.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I know what you mean, but you would need a different and much more specific and focused medical DNA testing (by a company such as 23andMe which has conducted such investigations in coordination with the NFL). Ancestry.com only tests genetic ethnicity estimates, so that individuals can help determine their ancestral relationship to other individuals.

Just like in genetic disease DNA testing, it is important to understand that just because an individual carries a certain gene for a disease such as lupus, it does not mean that the individual will definitely develop lupus in his lifetime. Such a disease-specific gene typically would require an extrinsic "trigger"............in the case of lupus, possibly an episode of the flu. Therefore, just because one would have a gene for lupus, he may never clinically develop this disease in his lifetime. So sports DNA testing and analyzing is not as simple as it may seem..................essentially leaving questions on how to use the information you may gain.............and how their interpretation may lead to potential negative "consequences".

Genetic testing is being used in sport – but what are the consequences?
December 7, 2017 6.13am EST
Click to expand...

Going into the draft, I recall hearing about Fuller's questionable hands, but nothing about injury concerns. During his first couple of seasons, Emmitt Smith had hamstring issues, I believe he changed his diet and started weekly sessions with a chiropractor.

Instead of genetics, could it be a diet and training issue? I would hate for Fuller to sign with another team and similar to Brooks, another medical staff identifies the root cause of these injuries.
 
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