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Why all the doom and gloom?

G

get a clue

Practice Squad
Why is it that most of the people here are already writing off this comming season? Before last season started a good amount of people here had the texans with 9-11 wins and fighting for a wild card spot. Now with that same squad, minus some weak links, and a few up grades- people here are already bashing the team. Why? I personally think with the new atmosphere created by brining in a new staff, should atlest bring some optimisim *typo* from both new/current players- and the Fans. How many times could we all call the plays from the stands with last years offense? This teams offense was so vanillia it wasnt even fun to watch them at all. I think a new staff will atlest mix things up, no more ultra conservative Dom ball. We have a electric return man in Mathis, a great WR in AJ- some new added pass rush in weaver, great corner with dunta, and Bush & DD in the back field. Give these guys a chance before we put them infront of the firing squad.... I for one wasnt going to renew my tickets after last season- but as 3/15 came around I put up my money- last season was hell- before last season everyone was on the bandwagon and going with the growth and building of the franchise - lets give these guys a chance and show some support!!!
 
Turp007 said:
I think people still feel that Charley C is to blame and he is still calling the shots. I don't know but I beleive that alot of the choices made this offeason make sence and do not make sence. Look at it like this, we picked up a quality DE, and now it looks like a good prospect as a number 2 or 3 reciever. We picked up a full back, for some reason that I can not put a finger on, and a QB who has has never performed and could not beat out on of the worse QB is the league so you got me saying what the heck is going on. Who is making the call's. I just hope that Coach K ralizes this city is expecting a much better outing next year, and if they trade down on Reggie and Vince he sure as heck better get some very high quality compensation. I could not bear another season like our last one.
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Well we need a backup QB and we got one in Sage. I don't know if he's better than Tony Banks, but I do believe he is better than Dave Ragone. I would still rather have more of a veteran. Wish we could have gotten Kitna or Frerotte.
 
The FB signing from my understanding, is one that fits a offensive more geared towards one that Kub wants to run. He is a FB with a recieving threat out of the back field. Sage I dont know much about, I agree about Miami's weak position at QB last year, and here we are picking up there 3rd stringer. Who knows maybe they give him a look preseason then cut him? I dont have problems with people questioning moves, it just seams more than that.... I think Weaver was a great pick up, period- everyone here seems to over look that. Id rather not have lost Gaff, but he isnt really a 2, he seemed to be a serviceable 3, with not much upside. I dont think we move down at all now, Bush I see as a lock, if we really want a QB I think USC's ML would be the pick, not Young * his stock is high cause of the Rose game- he goes 7 at the highest*-- I guess this is what MB's are used for, but its sad to log on here and check things out, and EVERY thread is just bashing the TEXANS. Maybe its just a bunch of 15-17 year olds on spring break, with too much time on there hands.
 
Turp007 said:
I really think Kitna would have really put alot of pressure on Carr. Look at what it has done for Harrington up in Detroit. It would have been awsome to see Carr finally have a backup that could compete for the job! Here is a scary thought, if Kubiak thinks Sage can compete with Carr, boy that really makes Carr's look like a waste of time. I laugh at the thought of it all. What a crazy off-season. I still wish they would suck it up and put forward some money on a vet o-lineman
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Well Harrington is probably gone from Detroit. They signed both Kitna and Josh McCown. I don't think Sage is going to be competiting with Carr. Carr is going to be Kubiak's QB. No if's, and's, or but's.
 
I dont agree, last year there were times he looked bad, that I will agree on. He hasnt had a line at all. Before that I saw plently of positives in his progress, this is his make or break year, lets see what he can do! What do you see wrong with his game?? When he has time he makes strong accurate throws, he seems to have strong leadership skills, he is a stand up guy and seems very "coachable". The one negative I do see in his game- he hardly ever moves in/out of the pocket and looks down field. He either runs out of bounds/gets sacked, or runs for a few yards. It never seems he scrambles to buy time to make a play downfield.
 
Sage is only here as a back-up for if/when DC gets injured. I jus' hope that DC has learnt to either run for his life, duck and weave, throw the ball away ASAP, even hail a taxi to get outta the way of the opposition D jus' so he doesn't get hurt and we need Sage to fill in...
 
Because Houston fans arent very good fans. Until we win the superbowl.. this kind of bunk will continue on these forums. And a couple years after our superbowl win..they will start up again.

Its sad.. but its what we have. Hopefully these "fans" wont let it get to the point that the Texans pick up and leave like the Oilers did... I wouldnt put money on it though.
 
What does it mean to be a fan?

I've spent a LOT of money on tickets and I've been to every regular season home game the Texans have ever played. I am a "fan".

That being said, I reserve the right to be very critical of what the team has done, particularly CC. If anything, the fact that I spend as much as I do on tickets gives me this right to have an opinion and to express it here

I pull for the team and I always will but that doesn't mean blind acceptance of every move the team has ever made. I think we have more than enough data to conclude that CC is incompetent as a GM.

The FA period isn't over but as of now we're looking at Pitts/McKinney/Hogdon/Weigert/Wade. And that says 3-13 for 2006. "Better coaching" and the potential to draft a couple of O-linemen early (won't happen, btw) will not improve our OL in 2006. And it pisses me off. We knew last offseason that we needed to improve the OL and we didn't do it. Here we go again. I'm not a DC fan but I admit that we'll never know what he can do without some protection. More of the same in 2006
 
Grid said:
Because Houston fans arent very good fans. Until we win the superbowl.. this kind of bunk will continue on these forums. And a couple years after our superbowl win..they will start up again.

Its sad.. but its what we have. Hopefully these "fans" wont let it get to the point that the Texans pick up and leave like the Oilers did... I wouldnt put money on it though.
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That is a shame about Houston fans. Was it that way before the internet? Could it be the reporters, the owners, businesses that would like to see the NFL go belly up, etc.

Since you are on this Houston fans are not vey good it must be something that has bothered you for some time. Can you elaborate on it as I have never been a fan of a Houston team until the Texans.
 
Turp007 said:
Harringtons stats up in Detroit have actually been much better than cars.
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Much better? Carr has more yardage on almost 200 fewer passing attempts as well as the same number of 20+ passes and just 1 fewer 40+ passes. Despite being in a WCO, Harrington has never thrown over 60% completions while Carr has each of the last two years. Carr has almost a yard more per attempt and has had a higher QB rating every year. And while I am sure someone will try to attribute all 131 extra sacks to Carr, Carr has been sacked 208 times vs. 77 times.
 
rather than reply to your post Denver... im just gonna point you towards my thread entiteld "A long post".

You can choose to read it or not.

I would like to point out that buying tickets and merchandise doesnt make you a good fan. Well...maybe to some people it does :).. but if I go out and buy a jersey.. that doesnt mean I can come back and dog on the Texans because I "already did my duty as a fan".

Just doesnt make sense man. Thats like claiming you can beat your pet dog because you donate to the SPCA.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
That is a shame about Houston fans. Was it that way before the internet? Could it be the reporters, the owners, businesses that would like to see the NFL go belly up, etc.

Since you are on this Houston fans are not vey good it must be something that has bothered you for some time. Can you elaborate on it as I have never been a fan of a Houston team until the Texans.
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Honestly I dont know. It could be the internet... I mean, with the Oilers.. the only way to really get a feel for the oilers fanbase as a whole..was to attend large get togethers. So I couldnt really say if they have ALWAYS been this way.. or if its something new.

But I cant think of any other fanbase that could be this negative and sarcastic after hiring a young Houston native as their head coach. Who just happens to have 3 superbowl rings and a great deal of experience. As well as hiring a very qualified and acclaimed Oline coach in Sherman.

It seems to me that we should have every reason to be excited and positive about next season.

:confused:



But this hasnt really "bothered me for a long time". I knew that our fans back in the Oiler days were very "disillusioned" with the Oilers. I dont really blame them cause the owner was a fool, and they had broken their fan's hearts time and again. What bothers me though.. is that already people are falling into that "disillusionment" that they had before. After only 4 years.. with so much to still be positive about.. already people are finding the bad in everything we do. People have already decided that every move we make is cursed for one reason or another. Its depressing.

its a relatively new occurance in this fanbase though. For the last 4 years.. we have remained pretty positive in the offseason. Always we thought that we were on the verge of being a competitive team. Obviously there were some naysayers.. but it wasnt so prevalent as it is now. But, now that we really have a reason to think that things could be getting better pretty quickly, the fans have decided that all is lost. :brickwall
 
Well I started on the long post and made it about two paragraphs. I'll save it for when I can't sleep sometime.

Boy I guess being a fan just means saying "whatever"? Are we not supposed to have any expectations? Just be happy with mediocrity? Hey Charlie, go get em? You suck, Charlie, but I don't care because you work for Houston?

I hope you have higher expectations in the rest of your life than you do for this team. Mr McNair must love fans like you because he then knows he can put a crappy team on the field and still sell out tickets and merchandise. Personally I have higher standards than that.
 
Thanks for the reply Grid. You cannot take anyone dinging Kubiak as credible as his value is not visible to the fan until we see how he develops this team, units and players. What you may be feeling is some fans continued dislike of certain players and that Kubiak is guilty by association for rubber stamping an extension, acquisition or attrition. Just my two cents :twocents:
 
get a clue said:
I dont agree, last year there were times he looked bad, that I will agree on. He hasnt had a line at all.
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This, I think, Is the reason for most of the doom and gloom. David Carr. I don't hide the fact that I support YKW....... in order to build my case, I've got to tear down DC.......... right or wrong.

It's the same with our OL...... the Carr supporters have to discredit the OL. They'll tell me, if Kubiak is good with Carr, then I should be. The same has to be extended to the OL. If Kubiak, who has put together & developed a very respectable OL that has performed at the top of the NFL year in and year out, we have to assume his expertise in that area makes him a pretty good judge of OL talent. Sure, our guys looked lost, but most of them played out of position. We have one opening on our line as of now........ Center...... I'm hoping it will be filled in FA, we can look at RT in the draft.

But as long as people keep pitting our OL against Carr, it's going to look bad for some fans.
 
infantrycak said:
And while I am sure someone will try to attribute all 131 extra sacks to Carr, Carr has been sacked 208 times vs. 77 times.
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I wish there was another stat we could use to quantify the quality of the OL. Joey has less sacks than Carr, but I don't believe that means his OL is better.
 
DenverBorn said:
I've spent a LOT of money on tickets and I've been to every regular season home game the Texans have ever played. I am a "fan".

That being said, I reserve the right to be very critical of what the team has done, particularly CC. If anything, the fact that I spend as much as I do on tickets gives me this right to have an opinion and to express it here

I agree totally...except I firmly believe we should give this new regime a chance before we start knocking their every move - or lack thereof. I just finished reading in the Boston Globe that Kubiak gave Casserly a list of the FAs he wanted to bring to Houston which gave me the impression that CC was to follow orders and not go off in a Casserly direction.

I feel that Carr can turn his play around with the right coaching and people around him. He has the talent to be very good and he has the desire to improve which means a lot. I have faith that Kubiak, Sherman, et al can do that. If, after next season, nothing much has improved - then we can all start the team bashing thing.

The FAs we've gotten so far have potential - at least on paper- and we will just have to wait and see if the coaching can help them live up to this potential. No, they aren't big names - but look at Arizona. They got James, but he refuses to come to Arizona for the beginning workouts. That isn't a good thing at all! Would we rather have a big name who is just out for the money, or a young, up and coming guy who is hungry to make a big splash? I'll go for the young and hungry...with good coaching.

There are lots of people who base their decisions on past experiences and this board seems to have a plethora of those types. I'm for trying to base my Texan fan decisions on the past experiences of the new coaching staff - not the old one.

I think the naysayers are going to be pleasantly surprised with the Texans and am happy to see some positives written on this board.
Go Texans!!!:redtowel:
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Im sure Mr. McNair does love fans like me :). After all.. I dont resent him for his money, and talk about him behind his back like he is some blood sucking tyrant. Maybe if you had higher expectations for your life, you wouldnt be so angry at people with more money than you :)

Anyway. Im not going to retype what is in my other thread. Ill summarize a bit for ya though.

1. Yes, have expectations, but make sure that your expectations are good ones. If you EXPECT us to address the line in FA... well... thats not a very good expectation. That is taking YOUR idea of what YOU think is the right avenue for us to take, and making it seem as though that is the ONLY good way to fix our problems.

2. I understand that people are wary of CC. But with a new staff.. and being the worst team in the league last season... and the fans being so edgy.. do you really think that McNair, Reeves, Kubiak, Sherman, and the rest of our staff is not being very careful about what moves we make during the offseason? I understand if you dont trust Casserly... I DONT understand why you wouldnt trust all those other people. And if you trust them.. then you should be willing to give the Texans the benefit of the doubt this offseason.

3. Mr. McNair didnt pay 700 million dollars for this franchise so that he could peddle an inferior team on Houston. He wants this team to succeed..and has shown the willingness to do whatever it takes to get us to succeed. He is already set for life, financially... this team is not some "project" of his that he is using to see how much of a profit he can make.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wish there was another stat we could use to quantify the quality of the OL. Joey has less sacks than Carr, but I don't believe that means his OL is better.
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Seriously this isn't even close. Detroit doesn't have a good OL, but that isn't in the same league of suckiness as the train wreck that has been the Texans OL. Joey was sacked 17 times combined in his 1st two years in the league, Carr was sacked 91 times. There is no way IMO anyone can credibly put all that difference on the QB and schemes.
 
Oh boy, another "I'm a real fan and you're not" thread.

Why all the doom and gloom? Because many of us have been here before. It feels like 1994 all over again. Some people react to the here and now and not what might be. Some people are afraid of what might be because of where we've been.

Whether Kubiak is Jeff Fisher remains to be seen but the change should remain a source of optimism until proved false.

Money spent has nothing to do with the type of fan you are IMO, unless it's that burning NFL fan passion in your gut that's urging you to spend that money.

It's that inexplicable passion that's a measure of a fan, whether he's in the Club seats sipping wine, in a sports bar chugging beer, or sitting on the couch adjusting the foil on the rabbit ears to pull in CBS from Beaumont or wherever.

Accept the fact that there's a lot of hard core fans out there who are not rah-rah all the time. We *****, but we're on freaking message boards 24/7/365. Maybe it's due more to masochism than fandom, but I doubt it.

Houston isn't alone when it comes to the nature of its NFL fan base. We are a lot like Atlanta in terms of a transient population, no history of championships, etc. Put a four or five year suck drought in almost any southern city and you'll have the same 'what have you done for me lately' apathy.
 
Grid said:
Im sure Mr. McNair does love fans like me :). After all.. I dont resent him for his money, and talk about him behind his back like he is some blood sucking tyrant. Maybe if you had higher expectations for your life, you wouldnt be so angry at people with more money than you :)
On what basis would you draw this conclusion? Nothing about my posts suggests any envy or resentment of McNair's wealth. Higher expectations for my life? AYFKM? I've done fine. I hold myself to a high standard and thus I also hold the Texans to a high standard. And I'm going to be critical until I see results. I think this year's FA signings are more of the same - fringe players at relatively cheap prices. Morlon Greenwood, Todd Wade, Mark Bruener all come to mind.

If we had a new GM I'd be completely forgiving and understanding. And patient. But we don't. And do you think it was Kubiak who refused to pay Givens a competitve salary? Do you really think Kubiak's making the final calls on personnel? That's all more smoke screen by CC so he can point the finger at GK as he did at Dom Capers. You could just see him sitting next to McNair in the owners box - "Hey the coaching staff wanted Babin" - " P-Burnt wasn't my idea" - etc.

We all agree that the history of the Houston Texans has been a record of consistently bad personnel decisions. And I hold McNair accountable as he's the only one that could make the change that needs to be made. And he didn't. And what we're seeing this year is what we've seen in previous years.
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infantrycak said:
Seriously this isn't even close. Detroit doesn't have a good OL, but that isn't in the same league of suckiness as the train wreck that has been the Texans OL. Joey was sacked 17 times combined in his 1st two years in the league, Carr was sacked 91 times. There is no way IMO anyone can credibly put all that difference on the QB and schemes.
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I put alot of the blame on the misuse of our Oline talent, and the schemes. McKinney at center was a big mistake that should have been fixed after our first season IMO. The center is possibly the most important position on the Oline, and a bad center can make the whole Oline look really bad. McKinney is a bad center... and he never should have been put at center.. or at least, he shouldnt have been put at center again after Carr broke the single season sack record. We also gave up on Wand too quickly. We should have put more effort into either improving the line, or changing our blocking schemes, or changing our packages...instead of putting so much effort into getting the ball out of Carr's hands faster.
 
infantrycak said:
Joey was sacked 17 times combined in his 1st two years in the league, Carr was sacked 91 times. There is no way IMO anyone can credibly put all that difference on the QB and schemes.
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That's not what I'm trying to say.... I'm just saying it would be nice if there was a way to rank OLs.......

I'd like to rank our OL, if nothing else, we can go back and see why David avg only 1.5 sacks a game in 2003, and why he performed best, when the he took 49 sacks.... which I'm sure is pretty high NFL wide, but he was able to put up better than avg numbers........


In this post, I'm just having an honest discussion, about our line, and David Carr. Don't read any of it as knocks against either.
 
aj. said:
Accept the fact that there's a lot of hard core fans out there who are not rah-rah all the time. We *****, but we're on freaking message boards 24/7/365. Maybe it's due more to masochism than fandom, but I doubt it.
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As long as you have a deep burning desire to see this team win, you're a fan. It doesn't matter if you bring doom and gloom or not. As long as the single biggest motivation for what you say, or what you do, is that you want to see this team win........... you R a fan.
 
DenverBorn said:
On what basis would you draw this conclusion? Nothing about my posts suggests any envy or resentment of McNair's wealth. Higher expectations for my life? AYFKM? I've done fine. I hold myself to a high standard and thus I also hold the Texans to a high standard. And I'm going to be critical until I see results. I think this year's FA signings are more of the same - fringe players at relatively cheap prices. Morlon Greenwood, Todd Wade, Mark Bruener all come to mind.
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Figured you might not like someone claiming you have low expectations for your life :)...think about it.

As for the rest of your comment... those are players the last coaching staff wanted. Now we are getting players that THIS coaching staff wants. There is a difference. Im not going to pass judgement on these players at this point, because that would be like passing judgement on this coaching staff before they have even taken the field.


If we had a new GM I'd be completely forgiving and understanding. And patient. But we don't. And do you think it was Kubiak who refused to pay Givens a competitve salary? Do you really think Kubiak's making the final calls on personnel? That's all more smoke screen by CC so he can point the finger at GK as he did at Dom Capers. You could just see him sitting next to McNair in the owners box - "Hey the coaching staff wanted Babin" - " P-Burnt wasn't my idea" - etc.
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I dunno where to start with this paragraph. You are drawing alot of conclusions with very little information. Im fine with conjecture and exploring "possibilities".. but when you actually make your judgements based on what you think is probably happening behind the scenes...that just aint smart. And what if the staff did want Babin and Pburnt wasnt his idea? Just a thought. Ive heard theories to support both sides of the fence. Ive heard that he is actually a football genius when it comes to player evaluation, but that he is a wuss when it comes to taking the player he thinks is best, over the player that the coach wants. Ive also heard the other side..that he is a fool and passes the buck on his mistakes.. what I havent heard is any concrete evidence to support one theory or the other.

Ill stick with my way of thinking. I trust McNair, Reeves, Kubiak, Sherman, and the rest of the staff... and I know that they are working closely with CC.. so I will trust the moves we make until I have a good reason not to.


We all agree that the history of the Houston Texans has been a record of consistently bad personnel decisions. And I hold McNair accountable as he's the only one that could make the change that needs to be made. And he didn't. And what we're seeing this year is what we've seen in previous years.
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No we dont all agree to that. I will agree that we have had consistently bad FA signings under the old staff. But I think we have done well in the Draft. As for holding McNair accountable. Yes..he is accountable..but I dont despise him. He is a new owner, and he admitted openly that he has learned alot from this first "mistake" with the Capers regime. I dont fault him for sticking with Capers for 4 years.. im actually glad to see that our owner has some loyalty to his staff, and isnt the type of guy that is going to fire everyone as soon as things look a bit rough. Ive seen enough of Bud Adams to know that I dont want version 2.0.
 
thunderkyss said:
As long as you have a deep burning desire to see this team win, you're a fan. It doesn't matter if you bring doom and gloom or not. As long as the single biggest motivation for what you say, or what you do, is that you want to see this team win........... you R a fan.
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Right there with ya.

And those of us who know Keith Weiland (the author of the hpf article that may have catalyzed some of this) realize there are not many fans out there who want this team to win more than he does.
 
thunderkyss said:
As long as you have a deep burning desire to see this team win, you're a fan. It doesn't matter if you bring doom and gloom or not. As long as the single biggest motivation for what you say, or what you do, is that you want to see this team win........... you R a fan.
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..... :stirpot:

Ok.. I know this is gonna get some bad reactions.. but, you may be a fan if you beleive that, but you arent necessarily a GOOD fan.

Lemme explain before ya tear me a new one.

example: A person who wants us to draft Vince Young because they feel he is the key to getting to the super bowl is a good fan. However.. if, in order to draft Vince Young, they are willing to sign petitions, threaten boycotting, and essentially FORCE the team to do what they want.. they are not a good fan. Why? Because now they are acting in a way that could HARM the team, even if they have good intentions. We are paying people to make those kinds of decisions based on facts and professional evaluations.. FORCING them to do it or risk losing fans is not helping the team.


With that in mind.. a person who constantly dogs on the team, and views every move the make in a negative light.. they may not be hurting the team as OBVIOUSLY as the fan above would be, but they are hurting the team. A negative fan base can effect many things.. from ticket sales, to merchandising, to the acquiring of new fans... all the way to what kind of personel moves we make, and the moral of the team as a whole. Seems kinda silly I know, but its true.

A positive fan base is more inviting to new fans.. is more likely to attend games and buy merchandise.. and will, overall, be better supporters of the team.

That doesnt mean that you have to always put on a happy face... im just saying that it is important for the fans to not only support the team by wanting them to win, but to support them by not dogging on EVERY move they make, regardless of whether it was a good move or not.
 
Maybe it's just me but I can't put on the blind homer happy face when we give up 2nd rounders for a 'running back' with 4 games of NCAA experience, or give up three high picks for a tweener 3-4 LB, or give up 2nd and 3rd round picks for a DB with a checkered past, or make cap killer mistakes of giving double digit signing bonuses to guys like Gary Walker and Todd Wade ....or or or.

These reactions are not all hindsight so save that rebuttal. Many of us were critical on some of these and other transactions from the get go. For example, while I like the Tony Weaver signing, he needs to be more than a nice player to make that 12 million dollar s/b worth it. When people ask me about him, that's what I tell them, not "yay Tony - we're going to the playoffs!"

Being a blind homer is probably as bad as being a chicken little. I think we reached that conclusion a few hundred times in other similar threads.

What may be worse are the self proclaimed 'good' fans who perceive that the 'bad' fans see EVERYTHING in a negative light - just because they like one player better than another or don't trust the GM as far as he can throw him. Come to think of it, I could probably throw CC pretty far - he's not that big. Ask me about Vernand Morency, Jerome Mathis, and Travis Johnson and you won't get anything negative. DD was an excellent pick. I'm excited about the prospect of Bush in the backfield even though I think VY will be a better NFL QB than David Carr in the long run (...gasp, I said something negative about David Carr - please excuse me)

Yeah, threats of boycotts are lame and those types are not even in the discussion as far as I'm concerned. I'm rooting for a uniform when it's all said and done.
 
I see where you are coming from aj. Im not advocating blind homerism though. I just dont see the point in jumping to conclusions before you have any real info.

When we signed Hollings I was hoping he would be a steal..and he wasnt. Same with Babin. Todd Wade was great at run blocking for Ricky Williams..I was hoping he would come here and be a force on our Oline, and he isnt. I mean, I have no trouble admitting mistakes we have made, after they have turned into mistakes... I just dont see the point in calling a move a mistake before you have even seen it pan out.


btw... somewhat hypocritical for me to say this :)..but I never agreed with the Gary Walker contract either, and im glad to see him gone.
 
Grid said:
btw... somewhat hypocritical for me to say this :)..but I never agreed with the Gary Walker contract either, and im glad to see him gone.
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I'm not happy to see him gone necessarily...I just hate having to (predictably) eat the $7.8 million two years after giving him that stupid contract.
 
Grid ......There are no GOOD Fans or BAD Fans (accept the guy who poured beer on DC's wife) ..... Either you are a fan of the team or you arent ..... How much money you spend on tickets , BEER or merchandise has no bearing upon your status as a FAN. Doesnt matter if you sit on the front row at the 50 yard line or at the top of the stadium behind a pillar ....or on your couch because you are either too broke to afford tickets or would rather watch from the comforts of home and your ice chest full of beer ......72 inch Wide Screen or a 9 inch black and white ....Either you are a FAN or you Arent

This team went 2-14 last season and is picking FIRST in the next draft , You know what that means ? It means this team SUCKED ..... Yet we are still here talking about Our Team . Wonder what that makes us ?
 
My main problem is EVERY year we have the same weaknesses, and EVERY year we fail to address them. We need OL help more than any other team in the league. And instead of forking out some coin to land a SOLID starter, they keep overpaying for fringe players (Todd Wade, Zack Weigert, Victor Riley) hoping they can all of a suddenly resurrect their career and turn them into all pros.

I just wish they would PAY just 1 STUD OL to anchor our line. I think just 1 proven ALL PRO could improve the whole line. I was really hoping they would go after Bentley or Hutchinson.

Now we'll have the same crappy line we've had the past 4 years. Even if we got DBrick (which I doubt), he's a rookie and will have at least a year or 2 learning curve....

Sure the players we've gotten are OK (Sage, Cook, Weaver, Walter), but none of them are going to make a big impact. In fact 3 out of 4 are backup players....

All this being said if we can land Burleson, Putzier, & Flannigan, then I'll be getting excited. Then if we draft Reggie, I'll be a happy man!
 
thunderkyss said:
That's not what I'm trying to say.... I'm just saying it would be nice if there was a way to rank OLs.......

I'd like to rank our OL, if nothing else, we can go back and see why David avg only 1.5 sacks a game in 2003, and why he performed best, when the he took 49 sacks.... which I'm sure is pretty high NFL wide, but he was able to put up better than avg numbers........

In this post, I'm just having an honest discussion, about our line, and David Carr. Don't read any of it as knocks against either.
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The only ranking I am aware of was by Football Outsiders. I will have to look for it again. Not surprising, I believe they had the run blocking as mid pack and the pass blocking as dead last for the Texans. Don't recall for the Lions.

Edit addition.

OK found it here.

To sum up:

2005 Texans 8th run blocking/32nd pass blocking--Lions 14th run blocking/10th pass blocking
2004 Texans 19th run blocking/30th pass blocking--Lions 21st run blocking/16th pass blocking
2003 Texans 29th run blocking/25th pass blocking--Lions 31st run blocking/1st pass blocking
2002 Texans 32nd run blocking/32nd pass blocking--Lions 30th run blocking/1st pass blocking

4 year average for pass blocking: Texans 29.75th--Lions 7th
 
Not sure how the Football Insiders derive their rankings. But one of the reasons Joey's sack numbers were so low early on was that he was quick to throw the ball away when pressured. Mooch tried to get Harrington to hold the ball longer, and that contributed to his sack totals rising.

Pretty much opposite of the criticism that Carr has heard here.
 
Lucky said:
Not sure how the Football Insiders derive their rankings. But one of the reasons Joey's sack numbers were so low early on was that he was quick to throw the ball away when pressured. Mooch tried to get Harrington to hold the ball longer, and that contributed to his sack totals rising.

Pretty much opposite of the criticism that Carr has heard here.
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They have an explanation for how they derive rankings. Like a lot of their rankings, I see things which could be nitpicked. They certainly don't take into consideration things like the design of the O or Harrington's tendency to launch the ball. They are however, the only ranking I am aware of for OL's broken down by run and pass blocking which is what the request was for. Even with the rankings faults and accounting for system differences/QB issues it would be hard to argue IMO that the Lions' pass protection was anywhere near as bad as the Texans' has been, but of course that's back to unquantifiable opinion.
 
get a clue said:
Why is it that most of the people here are already writing off this comming season? Before last season started a good amount of people here had the texans with 9-11 wins and fighting for a wild card spot. Now with that same squad, minus some weak links, and a few up grades- people here are already bashing the team. Why? I personally think with the new atmosphere created by brining in a new staff, should atlest bring some optimisim *typo* from both new/current players- and the Fans. How many times could we all call the plays from the stands with last years offense? This teams offense was so vanillia it wasnt even fun to watch them at all. I think a new staff will atlest mix things up, no more ultra conservative Dom ball. We have a electric return man in Mathis, a great WR in AJ- some new added pass rush in weaver, great corner with dunta, and Bush & DD in the back field. Give these guys a chance before we put them infront of the firing squad.... I for one wasnt going to renew my tickets after last season- but as 3/15 came around I put up my money- last season was hell- before last season everyone was on the bandwagon and going with the growth and building of the franchise - lets give these guys a chance and show some support!!!
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I think you made a good point We should be excited about the upcoming season.

But we will trade Bush for D'Brick at left Tackle and a undesclosed 2nd round pick.:homer:
I felt we were a better team than we witnessed last season. I thought that we had talent on both offense and defense.
There is a big difference in a Cook and a Chef. Capers was a Cook.
Hopfully Kubiak is a chef!!
 
I would agree with your assement. If you look at last season, we could have easily won 5 more games and been 7 and 9. Then everyone would not be freaking out right now. Lets focus on the positives:

We have a new coach and assistant coach that should be able to fine tune the O-Line problem. Basically correct the issues in the previously installed zone blocking system. Both Bush and Davis could get a 1000 yards. Which would take major pressure off Carr.

We have the number one draft pick that will give us a dual threat at the RB positon. Plus both of them catch the ball!

We are filling the other glaring holes on our team such as WR, TE, DE with Free Agency. We have picked up an Ed McCaffrey type possession reciever and are looking at Nate Burleson for a solid #2. That would give us, AJ, Burleson, Mathis and Ed McCaffrey Jr., defenses could no longer double and triple AJ.

Throw Putz into the mix and you have a tightend that not only know how to block in Kubs scheme but can also catch the ball.

If we draft smart then we should be able to pickup a stud Center (Mangold) and address Defensive issues as well, LB/CB/SS

I am excited about this coming year, all the following years! This coaching change is exactly what we needed!
 
infantrycak said:
They have an explanation for how they derive rankings. Like a lot of their rankings, I see things which could be nitpicked. They certainly don't take into consideration things like the design of the O or Harrington's tendency to launch the ball. They are however, the only ranking I am aware of for OL's broken down by run and pass blocking which is what the request was for. Even with the rankings faults and accounting for system differences/QB issues it would be hard to argue IMO that the Lions' pass protection was anywhere near as bad as the Texans' has been, but of course that's back to unquantifiable opinion.
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I was actually more interested in the Texans ranking in 2003, 2004 & 2005.... along with that, I'd like to see who was our starting lineup in 2003, that when Carr only took 1.5 sacks per game(15 sacks in 11 games). I'd also like to figure out why he had a better year in 2004, despite being sacked 49 times in 16 games(3 sacks per game). then in 2005, he was saked 4.2 times a game. It looked like he was sacked more than 4 times a game in 2005. I'll see if I can find more game specific breakdowns.
 
Turp007 said:
I think people still feel that Charley C is to blame and he is still calling the shots.
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This gem early on in this thread sums it up nicely. If CC is still calling the shots, then there's REASON for concern.

I won't re-hash AJ's examples, but it's obvious that we're seeing the same trends in THIS years Free Agency that we've seen before. Weaver is the best "proven commodity" of the bunch and he's no standout (nor was he worth that kinda bonus $$$).

To quote Yogi Berra, it seems like "Deja Vu all over again". Is it any wonder that, even with a NEW (unproven) coaching staff, that there are doubts about what many see as rather dubious off-season moves?

I believe that a really GREAT coach can overcome so-so personnel decisions. I'd rather not put Kubes in that position from the get-go though! With the retention of CC, Bob McNair knowingly left the team open to this sort of criticism - I hope he accepts that part of the bargain...especially when he openly questioned at least one move (P-Burnt) publicly himself last season!
 
I am definately not in the doom gloom boat.

We have already upgraded the defensive line.

If we get Flanagan, Ashworth, Putzier, and Burleson our offense is pretty much upgraded.

Yah we didn't get Hutchinson and Bently but they went for 49 million and 36 million each and thats too much to pay an interior lineman.

We got mike sherman coaching the line. i'm excited,

Of the players we are targeting half of them have former coaches from last season coaching here.

i think we are doing a pretty good job not getting sucked into paying for an aging star
 
You know what makes this funny is I have noticed this board has died down since the RB/VY arguement. And what makes this more funny is that you people on here (DC lovers) said that VY wouldnt create excitement..well funny to me since it seems more and more like the TEXANS are leaning toward RB the excitement around the town has died down alot... even on the boards and you have people writing the TEXANS off... I hope they finish under 500 and dont get me wrong I will still support the TEXANS but it will sure feel good to see how the FO made another flop with DC....:yahoo:

P.S. live in Dallas right now and let me tell you the media is loving the T.O. signing and the phones cant stop ringing for season tickets over here... yeah he is a bad guy but he is a playmaker.. and he created a buzz the TEXANS only wished they could get...but wont take advantage of it with VY... and no guys dont like the cowboys actually hate them...
 
I think some of it is due to a glaring need for offfensive linemen and nothing has been done to address it! :twocents:

Bobby 119C
 
expwrlifter said:
P.S. live in Dallas right now and let me tell you the media is loving the T.O. signing and the phones cant stop ringing for season tickets over here... yeah he is a bad guy but he is a playmaker.. and he created a buzz the TEXANS only wished they could get...but wont take advantage of it with VY... and no guys dont like the cowboys actually hate them...
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he's a winner, bottom line.:brickwall
 
thunderkyss said:
he's a winner, bottom line.:brickwall
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Everything will be fine for the FIRST YEAR. Then Big Bill will have his fill and leave and by that time TO's cancer will destroy the locker room and with every other team in their division improving the cowboys will fall into the basement.

A Tiger doesn't lose his stripes
 
actually his contract is behavior incentive...so dont think he can get away with much but will agree he is a winner no matter where he went and also Bill will probably be gone soon but what difference does it make he will help take them to the SUPER BOWL.. on place the TEXANS will never be as long as DC is there ...no leadership and never been a winner...
 
expwrlifter said:
actually his contract is behavior incentive...so dont think he can get away with much but will agree he is a winner no matter where he went and also Bill will probably be gone soon but what difference does it make he will help take them to the SUPER BOWL.. on place the TEXANS will never be as long as DC is there ...no leadership and never been a winner...
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from kffl.com

Cowboys | Owens' deal contains no incentives
Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:31:07 -0800

Todd Archer, of the Dallas Morning News, reports the contract signed by Dallas Cowboys WR Terrell Owens contains no incentives. "It's a straightforward deal," Owens' agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said. The Cowboys did not put any added language into the contract that would prohibit Owens from off-field activities or force a repayment of the signing bonus. Once the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized, there will be standard signing bonus language in every contract. Under the new CBA, a player can no longer be deactivated for disciplinary reasons, although a team could choose not to play him on a week-to-week basis.
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so did they put some clauses or not? I'll have to do some more research
 
expwrlifter said:
actually his contract is behavior incentive...so dont think he can get away with much but will agree he is a winner no matter where he went and also Bill will probably be gone soon but what difference does it make he will help take them to the SUPER BOWL.. on place the TEXANS will never be as long as DC is there ...no leadership and never been a winner...
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How can you call TO a winner he's sytematically destroyed every team he's been on. He's not a winner and I don't care about what behavior incentive you have written up (oh wait I guess you don't have any), TO will be TO, wait and see.
 
why would we want TO? I personally feel that with the right system AJ could be up there with TO as far as a threat on the field without the attitude.
 
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