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#TomSavageDontCare
Been saying this all year. Roster churn this off season will be more severe than last year.
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Who's your quarterback - 2015 v2.0
- Thread starter Corrosion
- Start date
Been saying this all year. Roster churn this off season will be more severe than last year.
Ok I understand your point but will point out that the bolded are not old regime
And I think that Brown, Andre and Foster are almost certainly back. Myers and Garrett may very well be casualties. I don't believe we over achieved this year at all.
Call me crazy, but I for one believe Kubiak could have had more than 6 wins in 2006 & more than 8 in 2009. But because of some preconceived notions he let a couple of games slip away.
I think OB was on the verge of doing the same thing... But somewhere along the way he realized winning is more important than some preconceived notion about what his team is supposed to be or how they go about playing the game.
All that to say I don't think we're going to be sht canning players for the heck of it. If they can play, they can stay. There aren't any plans to move on from Chris Meyers or Duane Brown or Andre Johnson, or Arian Foster.
That's the core of a very,very good offense & you're shooting yourself in the foot "moving on" when those guys can still play at a very high level. Sure... Hopkins may very well be our best receiver, but who's the second best? We don't have a tight end or RB that can"make do"
Yeah, the money has to be worked out but that's a different story all together. But they'll work with Brown, Meyers, Foster, & Andre before they cull them.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I like the way you think. To bad we can't rewrite history.
No argument with this , I stated before you likely have to move ahead of the Jets in the top of the second to get Hundley.
Would you give up next year's first to do it?
Are you asking if the Texans should give up a first round pick for a second round quarterback?
Next year's first would have about the same value as this year's second.
I hear what you are saying, but it's really more like two 2nds than a 1st.
Probably not , I'd try giving up a 4th , maybe a 3rd in this years draft to move to 2:4 to get ahead of both the Jets & Washington.
The kicker is if Tennessee doesn't take a QB in round one , that's going to make it much more difficult to move up in the second to get Hundley.
If you thought Hundley is the guy. I don't.
Wonder if the Cards wish they had a backup QB as good as Fitz?
TEXANRED
Texan-American
I would definitely give up the 32nd pick in next years draft to move up.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hogan maybe comparing him to Luck cus of the obvs only problem is he wears #8 he will have to change that if he comes here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oVlDundpXU
connar cook and Bryce petty should be there when we pick has well
jus saying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oVlDundpXU
connar cook and Bryce petty should be there when we pick has well
jus saying
i like how Hogan pitter patters his feet in the pocket like peyton manning......cook's staying in college
speedfreek
All Pro
Huh? I need GPS to follow your logic..
Niether Keenum or Fitz is a franchise guy. They are both lousy.
The difference is Keenum is still so green that he's cheap and
_may potentially_ be a good #2.
Stinky isn't even that, because it would cost us 3+ mil. Who pays
3+ mil for a backup?
The highest paid backup QB right now is weeden at $2 mil.
No matter how you spin it, Case was just as effective against the
same Jags team as Stinky. Period.
Your arguments are specious. Fitz had every advantage when
he played the Jags. He was in the system for 14 consecutive
weeks. He played with the starters every week in practice.
He had Foster for the entire game, etc.
How do you know what motivation the Jags or Keenum had?
Honestly, look at yourself, you are defending keeping _Ryan
Fitzpatrick_.. Let that sink in for a while..
Niether Keenum or Fitz is a franchise guy. They are both lousy.
The difference is Keenum is still so green that he's cheap and
_may potentially_ be a good #2.
Stinky isn't even that, because it would cost us 3+ mil. Who pays
3+ mil for a backup?
The highest paid backup QB right now is weeden at $2 mil.
No matter how you spin it, Case was just as effective against the
same Jags team as Stinky. Period.
Your arguments are specious. Fitz had every advantage when
he played the Jags. He was in the system for 14 consecutive
weeks. He played with the starters every week in practice.
He had Foster for the entire game, etc.
How do you know what motivation the Jags or Keenum had?
Honestly, look at yourself, you are defending keeping _Ryan
Fitzpatrick_.. Let that sink in for a while..
I think there are three quality prospects in this draft with two of them being a bit better than the 3rd but after that 3rd guy the talent level really drops off .... a long drop.
Without the off field bullsh!t Winston would be the consensus #1 and Maroita the second guy off the board then Hundley.
BUT because of the system Mariota plays in , I think its really difficult to project him to the NFL. He seldom has to throw into tight windows because that scheme is hard to defend and is seldom if at all under center. He's a huge gamble as an early first round pick. I don't think the draft value between he and Hundley is all that great.
After that its a long way to the next guy , probably the late 3rd or 4th round before someone takes a shot with Grayson.
speedfreek
All Pro
Honestly, I don't think Keenum is a future hall of famer, but to pin
8 losses solely on the guy is total overreaction.
Look at how close the team came to winning some tough games
last year -- even with all of that adversity.
The entire team tanked at the end of the year. The game in Jax
was all the proof I needed last year to see that.
I still go numb just thinking about how everything went down --
it's an almost baffling series of events:
1) Schaub goes on a pick 6 fest
2) Yates gets put in and goes pick 6, benched after one game
3) Keenum starts with a week of practice against a playoff
team on the road
4) Texans go up 3 scores on the colts and Gary strokes out at half.
5) Fat Randy goes on a fieldgoal choke fest for a series of games.
6) Foster out for the year/Cush out for the year..
7) Close loss against the Pats at home (the last time the team gave a damn)
8) Musical chair-QB's with Schaub/Keenum
8) Meltdown in Jax and Gary gets canned.
9) Wade (a DC) coaches out the year without any real OC..
It's almost a horror show of flukey events.
8 losses solely on the guy is total overreaction.
Look at how close the team came to winning some tough games
last year -- even with all of that adversity.
The entire team tanked at the end of the year. The game in Jax
was all the proof I needed last year to see that.
I still go numb just thinking about how everything went down --
it's an almost baffling series of events:
1) Schaub goes on a pick 6 fest
2) Yates gets put in and goes pick 6, benched after one game
3) Keenum starts with a week of practice against a playoff
team on the road
4) Texans go up 3 scores on the colts and Gary strokes out at half.
5) Fat Randy goes on a fieldgoal choke fest for a series of games.
6) Foster out for the year/Cush out for the year..
7) Close loss against the Pats at home (the last time the team gave a damn)
8) Musical chair-QB's with Schaub/Keenum
8) Meltdown in Jax and Gary gets canned.
9) Wade (a DC) coaches out the year without any real OC..
It's almost a horror show of flukey events.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Of course this is Pre combine but NFL draft scout has petty as a 3rd round pick. Walter football has him as a 4th round pick.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
isn't that a bad thing I thought your taught to have your feet planted
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
So now you want to compare a 2nd round draft pick to an UDFA? That's funny.
Well since we are playing the "what if" game. "What if" Dre went down during the Chiefs game and Keenum was picked off a few more times. "What if" Keenum was injured in his debut. What if, what if. You do not know what would have happened so skip the speculation. 0-8 is reality, not dumb. Time shifting a defense into a previous season. Now that's dumb.
GPS? What are you, 12?
Look it matter not what you think of Fitzpatrick or Keenum. O'Brien has cut Keenum once already and started Fitzpatrick. Even when he could have brought him back he brought in Thad Lewis. Only when there were no other options did he call Keenum out of his tree. I think that speak volumes about what our HC thinks about Keenum regardless of what he says in public now, so if you are having trouble following that logic, you've got issues.
Keenum did not suddenly become more than he was when he was cut because he came in here and survived a few meaningless games for our opponents. Should he get credit for slightly improving. Of course. But let's not get carried away.
I am not defending Fitzpatrick. I am responding to round 2 of the "Keenum is the future" nonsense you homers are spewing. I have already stated it should be Mallett and Savage at 1 and 2. Fitz and Keenum should be gone with a new project from the draft at #3. We have no time for 4 or 5 QB's in camp. There is just not enough time or reps for that. You put the rest of the team behind trying to shoehorn in all those QB's. O'Brien will evaluate in the off season and will not need to see 4 or 5 QB's in camp.
O'Brien knows what he wants, and has already put his support behind Fitz. Like it or not, it should be easy for you or any other Keenumite to figure out who the odd man out is regardless of the silly argument about money.
The best you can hope for is that Keenum gets a serious look from another team. But in IMO, he has very little chance of playing for us next season, or even being invited to camp.
I know "the chart" isn't the end all be all, or even an official document. But if you're planning on moving up 12 spots in the second, more realistic compensation is in order.
speedfreek
All Pro
Man, it's amazing -- I never knew that you are such a talented mind reader.
I had no idea you and Obrien were telepathically connected.
Here's the deal:
#1 We aren't going to draft a QB better than Mallett with our first pick
unless we are willing to give away the house to move up
#2 We already have a project in Savage, so drafting another project
QB in round 3 and later is a pointless wasted exercise.
#3 there will be at least one veteran QB on the team that has more than
two games of starting experience..
#4 Obrien is an incompetent boob If he has Rick Smith pay Ryan
F'ing Fitzpatic 3+ mil. to be that guy.
#5 There will be minimum 4 QB's starting camp, and it's very likely that
Thad will be that 4th "camp arm" guy..
It ain't that hard -- you're just making it seem that way..
It's really hard to say. Mariota is a tier one guy like Cam Newton was a tier one guy. More flash than substance. But unlike Johnny they've shown at least three years of flash.
They're not Tier ones like Stafford, Ryan, or Bradford... or Winston... or Ryan Mallett. Good QBs on top 25 teams.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Chart has it as 160 pts to go 2.16 to 2.1 which is the value of the 3.22 pick. So 2.16 plus 3.16 to get 2.1 is pretty spot on.
You sure have the hots for Hundley. Give me Mallett over Hundley (Stronger arm/been in the offense for 4 yrs.) In fact I like Grayson better than Hundley. (Better accuracy/poise in the pocket.) Tell me what's different between Hundley/Hogan besides Hogan's god awful throwing motion?
What's funny is that we'll criticize Keenum for not winning a game in 8 starts, but don't hold it against a guy drafted in the 2nd round.
I don't care about Case Keenum. I'd rather not see him on our team. I see nothing special there & he looks more like a waste of time. You'll see that I'll use Case & Fitz interchangeably.
Not everyone shares your opinion... that said I think the only way Fitzpatrick sticks around is if he is willing to redo his contract. I think him and Keenum battle it out in camp
speedfreek
All Pro
I would hope for that regardless of who was the backup. I have no more faith in Keenum than I do Savage.
Plenty of buttfumbles gonna be on the market, we aren't restricted to either of those two.
I don't really have the hots for Hundley.
I just realize he's likely the best prospect we have a reasonable opportunity to pick in this draft and that he's a better overall gamble than Grayson.
To me its not Mallett or Hundley (really any draft pick). Its a solid plan B should Mallett prove incapable of winning football games. If he stinks it up the first 6-8 weeks there is no reason to keep running him out there and wait till next year to look for an alternative then piss away two seasons for QB development.
This gives you the ability to get ahead of the curve if you need that plan B by giving the drafted QB half a season to get his feet wet so he comes into the 2nd season prepared .... if not and we do it again.
We aren't going to fill the position with UDFA's , scrap heap guys like Fitzy , late round draft picks or street FA's.
I think the plan all along as been for Mallett to be the guy. Fitz was the garbage heap backup plan to get us to that point. Most teams go garbage heap 1 year contract guys for backups until they find that guy to groom. OB had to wait until Hoodie was convinced that Garopolo was that guy for him. Once he saw he was and that Brady was good for another 3 or 4, he told OB he could have Mallett. Mallett is our guy and Savage will be the guy we're grooming, we'll have garbage heap until Savage is ready. Then he'll move along provided Mallett is Brady and we'll get another. Just like the Pat's have been doing as long as Hoodie has been there.
None of us can read O'Brien's mind, but I think it's clear what he thinks of both Keenum and Fitzpatrick: he cut one in pre-season and sat the other during the season.
Neither of these decisions speaks of long-term confidence in these two QBs.
The Texans are in almost the same shape at QB right now as they were last year this time, which is is say there is no obvious choice at starting QB. Kind of depressing, but it is what it is at the moment.
The only projection we can possibly make is that both the Texans and Mallett say they want a deal, and they drafted Savage, so we know he'll be around. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess.
Neither of these decisions speaks of long-term confidence in these two QBs.
The Texans are in almost the same shape at QB right now as they were last year this time, which is is say there is no obvious choice at starting QB. Kind of depressing, but it is what it is at the moment.
The only projection we can possibly make is that both the Texans and Mallett say they want a deal, and they drafted Savage, so we know he'll be around. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess.
Number19
Hall of Fame
As you well know, TJ Yates was the QB released during the pre-season training camp. Keenum was not released until the conclusion of TC when Mallet suddenly became available. Fitz and Savage were locked in, so Case was the odd man out. St Louis snapped him up immediately. We have no idea if Case would have been resigned to the PS. We have no idea what OB's thoughts were/are on Case's potential.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sure we do. We know he wouldn't have started over Fitz...who got benched for Mallett.
With regards to "no idea what OB's thoughts were/are on Case's potential", I'd say waiving the guy and not even trying to keep him on the practice squad says it all. No matter how you slice and dice it, it is obvious that they did not even see future potential in the guy at that point. The Rams "snapped him up" for their own PS because he was waived. They could not have done that if he was on the Texans PS.
And Keenun still did not get picked up by the Texans as first option when things went south. They went with Thad Lewis during the season.
My point being that nothing the Texans have done with Keenum inspires long-term confidence. They grabbed him out of his tree in desperation.
corytx8
Rookie
Wasn't Thad signed onto the PS squad at first? If so, the Texans probably didn't sign case as the first option because they didn't make room for him on the Active. Teams can only sign players off of other teams PS onto their roster not PS to another PS.
If that is the case, it makes sense why the Texans passed him up the first time around
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Thad went straight to the roster.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Not to mention Thad Lewis was signed a week earlier over Keenum.
Number19
Hall of Fame
As I understand it, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, a player must clear waivers before he can be resigned to the PS. Case did not clear waivers.
Also, Case was not signed to St Louis' PS. He was on the Rams' 52 man roster during Sept until the end of Oct when injuries forced the Rams to sign a CB. Again Case was the odd man out. But the Rams thought enough of Case to sign him to their PS when he cleared waivers.
I agree the explanation regarding Thad Lewis is a possibility. However there could be other explanations.
I agree that Case was not in the running to be the starter.
Our first indication of how this will all shake out will be March 10th.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Good point that I was aware of but something I completely overlooked.
(OK, I guess this isn't pertinent.)
corytx8
Rookie
Which I believe he was signed onto our Practice Squad. We wouldn't have been able to sign case off of STL Practice Squad onto our Practice Squad hence explains why Thad was signed a week earlier.
You are correct that a player must pass waivers before practice squad signing, but are overlooking the fact that the Texans were first on the 2014 pre-season waiver list, which would have given them first shot at putting Keenum on the Texans PS.
And we can figure out all the regulations of practice squad management, but at the end of the day, we are still arriving at the same place: O'Brien did not think enough of Keenum to keep him. I do not consider the practice squad to be a ringing endorsement of belief in a player's long-term potential. "Ringing endorsement" being the key part of that point.
Maybe that's changed after the last two games, since Keenum did as good enough of a job as you could expect him to do in that scenario. I like the kid and wish him the best, but I'm not pro- or con- on Keenum, but rather just a Texans fan looking at history and big picture future.
Not only that, I'm sure that if the Texans had given Case any inkling of an idea that they wanted to retain him and place him on the PS, he would have declined to sign with another team (in case the Texans couldn't claim their own player off waivers for some reason).
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I think the goal is to have your feet nimble enough to plant and throw quickly. That means your feet are moving constantly until just before you begin your throw and you can plant and step toward your target quickly. But the coaches are better at the specifics.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That pretty much just makes it a 50-50 move. There will probably be an unexpected mid round 1st projection available at 2-1 which would have teams competing to move up for players other than QBs. You would probably have to throw in additional compensation to beat the competition or to dissuade them from drafting that player. I'm not sure we could get anyone worth it in comparison to what we have available assuming we have Mallett in the fold.
But if the draft has pretty much followed projections and only late 1st round projection players are available, then we have a shot.
And that is why I started the follow up thread to last years .... We are no closer to knowing the answer to this franchises quarterback conundrum than we were at any time last year.
We have one unproven option to hang our hat on and nothing else.
Where do we go from here ?!
Well there's not much in FA it seems so either OB likes on of the quarterbacks in the draft or Savage will be groomed as NE did with Mallett. Most teams don't have a proven backup, it seems they either groom replacements for long time starters or they have a bunch of different guys through the door until they find that guy.
I'm hoping Mallett is our Brady and will start long time. If he's not we'll keep looking. I don't see anyone in this current draft that is the guy.
Maybe OB will pull off a dramatic deal for a proven starter, but it's doubtful. Any other way is going to be a question mark