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Who's your quarterback - 2015 v2.0
- Thread starter Corrosion
- Start date
I meant game manager as it is commonly used here - a quarterback who:
1) probably will not lose a game for you typically running a conservative game plan.
2) can't be counted on to win a game for you either.
Let's just change that to "better than the Texans have had except for Schaub's few good years". Maybe as good as our hopes and dreams for Mallett.
I agree with the line of thinking that O'Brien knows Mallett best. However, I interpret O'Brien's actions a little differently. If Mallett was so well versed in the offense after all those years at New England and O'Brien has so much confidence in him, I don't see why it took O'Brien so long to replace a struggling Fitzpatrick with Mallett. If Mallett is as good as hoped, that hesitation could easily have cost the Texans their playoff berth this year.
Is it possible O'Brien isn't as confident in Mallett as the fans are?
As always, I have to put my disclaimer here. I think Mallett looked good in his first start, and if he turns out as hoped the Texans will be set at quarterback.
Counting on Mallett entails accepting not insignificant risk. Risk that isn't mitigated by the Savages and Fitzpatricks of the world.
Save me the trouble of reading the entire thread again ....
Who said Mallett is a loser ?!
Yes he looked capable in one game but he was inaccurate in both. I'm not ready to run him out of town or crown him king of the world .... But I'd like a backup plan in place should he prove he's not the future of the franchise at the QB position , that is assuming there is a quality prospect that we don't have to give up the farm for.
I'm optimistic about Savage because OB took him ahead of QBs I liked better in this draft; McCarron, Murray, & Mettenberger. If OB likes him better than I liked those guys... I feel good about him. Mett is just as big & just as strong. Must have been something else he saw in Savage.
But I don't think he's the next Brady or Roethlisberger... Well, maybe Roethlisberger.
I don't expect him to be better than Schaib, or a little better. Mediocre, maybe. But I don't see Bortles or Bridgewater being any better. Manziel maybe.... But he'll more than likely bust than be mediocre.
I want, like you, the Texans to draft a QB if they feel he can be a Franchise guy.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Well instant QB analysis, like instant coffee, leaves much to be desired.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Your post doesn't make much sense. You're essentially ready to pass on Savage after a little over a qtr. of play b/c he looked like a "deer in the headlights" as a rookie....all the while advocating that we bring in a another "potential franchise qb"....that'll be a rookie that in all likelihood would look the exact same if they were put in the game under the same circumstance that Savage was.
In any event, He didn't look as "horrible" as you're hyperbolic statements are trying to say...he looked like a rookie seeing his 1st regular season action. And considering that and him having had no practice with the 1's at all & him coming off the bench cold, he looked pretty good. You cite his footwork being an issue...common for rooks, but even with his struggles in the 1st couple of series', he still managed to lead us to a go ahead TD drive late in the 4th that could've won the game for us if not for Devier Posey holding. At the very least, he proved that he's worth a closer look for next year. There's no Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning coming out this year & short of that type of potential, no rookie qb that you're advocating we draft next year..even Mariota, is gonna look any better than Savage did. Furthermore, what sense does it make to throw away the year you already have invested in Savage....a guy that already knows your system and should be even better & more comfy in it next year (hopefully) for a rook coming in green? The biggest reason he was drafted where he was is b/c he went to 3 different schools. Had he stayed at Rutgers or had more than 1 year at Pitt, he'd have gone much higher....imo.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Save me the trouble of reading the entire thread again ....
Who said Mallett is a loser ?!
There you go.
Since your little vindictive rant seems directed at me - being that my post gave more credit to the head coach than fans for knowing one of his players - all I can say is that it must really suck to go through life with such vitriol and bitterness inside you about an ENTERTAINMENT medium.
You can spew and rant and rave until you're blue in the face and passed out, but guess what? What you or I think means jack **** those that make the decisions.
I see no questions, lots of venting, and I look forward to your 'educated' opinion when you decide to present it.
btw, length of time as a fan and $5 gets you a cup of java at Starbucks.
You say that like the so-called "blind faith" of mere fans has even the slightest ripple on the pond of front office decisions.
You overestimate your importance to this franchise.
Yeah, screw O'Brien!! His opinion means NOTHING. He's just the head coach, but nobody important and worthy enough to make decisions for this football team!!
Would you really love to be wrong? Would you even be able to admit it if you were wrong?
You've already formed your opinions, so why even bother? This team is going to suck in your mind until they bend to your superior will.
Yeah, and that's why they started Fitz, because he's such a massively huge QB.
lol lmao rolfl yada yada yada
Number19
Hall of Fame
I'm already on record with my opinion that OB will not draft a QB.
But I got a little curious with so many on this board taking a positive position, to various degrees, with the idea of taking a QB. So I've taken a look at the prospects and it seems to me that this year's QB class is weaker than last year's. It's still very early in the evaluation process, but I just don't see that potential "franchise" QB.
I've also started looking at the prospects at the other positions, and if we take a QB in this year's class we will be passing up some really good talent at other positions. And if we take a QB in the 4th or later rounds, I doubt he will be better than what we already have.
But I got a little curious with so many on this board taking a positive position, to various degrees, with the idea of taking a QB. So I've taken a look at the prospects and it seems to me that this year's QB class is weaker than last year's. It's still very early in the evaluation process, but I just don't see that potential "franchise" QB.
I've also started looking at the prospects at the other positions, and if we take a QB in this year's class we will be passing up some really good talent at other positions. And if we take a QB in the 4th or later rounds, I doubt he will be better than what we already have.
eriadoc
Texan-American
There are at least a few QBs that are as much a franchise QB as any from last year's draft. Put another way, I don't consider Bortles or Bridgewater any more a franchise QB than I do a few from this draft. The key difference is this year's crop of QBs appear to be a little behind the curve to start, but have higher ceilings, IMO. Bortles may have the highest ceiling of the '14 draft, but I can see Winston and Hundley with that sort of potential. They each have their issues to overcome in getting there, obviously. I am not really a fan of Mariota, and am leaning toward thinking he'll be a bust. JMO obviously, and I'm sure 90% of everyone disagrees with me. Bridgewater doesn't excite me at all. I don't see him being a franchise QB ever, but I also don't see him being a bad QB. He's the kind that's death to a franchise, because they spend years wondering if he's good enough to win a SB with.
If the Texans have the luxury of tutoring a guy for a year, they may end up with the best prospect of this two-year period.
Number19
Hall of Fame
But you're talking about drafting a "project" and we already have a project on the roster. That means we go into the season with two projects and a veteran with only two games under his belt. Or maybe we decide to not sign Mallet and go with Fitz for another season. In either case, we don't have a competent backup. Or maybe we sign Mallet and stash Savage on the PS. Or do we just drop Savage after only one year, wasting that 4th round pick?
Drafting a QB this year, when there is no clear cut talent, creates too much uncertainty at the position. I don't believe a coach will go in this direction when we have a realistic expectation of winning 10 games next year and making the playoffs, with our current lineup of QB's.
Drafting a QB this year, when there is no clear cut talent, creates too much uncertainty at the position. I don't believe a coach will go in this direction when we have a realistic expectation of winning 10 games next year and making the playoffs, with our current lineup of QB's.
Last year the pre-draft talk on the board was that they shouldn't take a quarterback in 2014 because the 2015 draft was loaded with quarterbacks, and a good one could be found anywhere the Texans happened to be picking in the first round. What happened? Did all of these guys suck in college last season? Was that 2015 projection just fan rationalization to back their favored pick Clowney? Is it simply that all of the draft projecting, talent evaluating, game tape analyzing posts aren't worth the paper* they are printed on?
*I know they are on computer screens and not paper. That's my point!
Yep, and a viable backup was never developed in case of injury or age. His peak was far too short to lift the Texans over the .500 franchise hump.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why care about overall franchise record?
Number19
Hall of Fame
But how do you develop a viable backup? I've stated in years past that I believe in giving your backup meaningful playing time on the infrequent occasions when this opportunity presents itself. I'm told coaching philosophy just doesn't accept this, for various reasons.
The key difference for me is that I believe OB knows how to develope a young QB. Jacksonville could have drafted Andrew Luck for all I care... It would have been a wasted pick.
If we sign Mallett, then draft another QB, the way I see it that gives us three shots at finding our franchise QB.
As far as a competent backup goes, I don't think we need to identify him until we've identified a competent starter.
Mallett is the starter.
Savage is learning to be a backup.
New guy would be runni g the scout team, working on Mechanics.
I'm not sure I understand your question. If every few years a couple of 12-4, 10-6 seasons are followed quickly by a 2-14 and 5-11 seasons, you have a very peaky franchise. The 7-9 to 9-7 years in between are also unsatisfying.
I would think the goal is to build a team of continued success.
However, this thinking probably only applies to a relatively young franchise like the Texans. Only the last couple of decades of most franchises are really considered in most discussions anyway. Who thinks about Joe Namath when discussing the Jets?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is what I was getting at. Even then the past doesn't change to reflect the present or future. The Texans started with a big Capers' era anchor on their record, pretty much like every new team except the Jags and Panthers and the league so disliked that result they changed the rules.
I just don't think what Capers/Carr did had any reflection on who the Texans were 6 years later with Kubiak/Schaub.
I don't think a smattering of quarters of play makes any significant difference. But if you want to look at how to do it - look at the Patriots. They periodically pick a QB they like even if higher than most people consider a flyer and then ride out his rookie contract prepping as best you can without being a starter.
They don't take a flyer on a 6th, 7th or UDFA every year and then the next year declare "that project QB hasn't panned out" and do it again.
I try to think of it in Jj Watt years. He couldn't care less what this franchise did before 2011. Where we've gone since then is all that matters.
Two play off wins (two division titles) a horrible 2013 & a pisser of a 9-7 season. 35-31.... Next year we'll be division winners again, or at least that's the way I look at it through Jj's eyes.
Number19
Hall of Fame
OB said he'd take a week or two off and then get right back to work evaluating the players on this past season's performance. It's all going to come down, first, how he grades Mallet, Fritz, Savage and Keenum. And second, whether we can resign Jackson and Reed.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
The team that could really develop a quarterback was the Dallas Cowboys under Tom Landry.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Looking at it this way, drafting a QB in either rounds one or two would be detrimental to our play next season. Looking at the talent available, and determinant upon if we fail to resign Jackson and Reed, we could possibly have these two selections making significant contributions. A QB would likely not contribute next season.
Since your little vindictive rant seems directed at me - being that my post gave more credit to the head coach than fans for knowing one of his players - all I can say is that it must really suck to go through life with such vitriol and bitterness inside you about an ENTERTAINMENT medium.
You can spew and rant and rave until you're blue in the face and passed out, but guess what? What you or I think means jack **** those that make the decisions.
I see no questions, lots of venting, and I look forward to your 'educated' opinion when you decide to present it.
btw, length of time as a fan and $5 gets you a cup of java at Starbucks.
You say that like the so-called "blind faith" of mere fans has even the slightest ripple on the pond of front office decisions.
You overestimate your importance to this franchise.
Yeah, screw O'Brien!! His opinion means NOTHING. He's just the head coach, but nobody important and worthy enough to make decisions for this football team!!
Would you really love to be wrong? Would you even be able to admit it if you were wrong?
You've already formed your opinions, so why even bother? This team is going to suck in your mind until they bend to your superior will.
Yeah, and that's why they started Fitz, because he's such a massively huge QB.
MSR and it's a shame
I'm not saying "pass on Savage." I'm saying I want a better plan B than Savage ....
Sure he's worth a look next season and I'm fine with him being here and continuing to develop. BUT I don't want to rest my hopes for the future of the franchise on a project with very slim hopes of working out. I want better odds.
We have no shot at Mariota and Winston is likely out of the question because of character concerns (That's too bad) but there are 3-4 guys I'd like to evaluate as late first or second round picks that have more potential than Savage and are probably equal to Mallett in terms of overall long term potential.
Hundley , Petty , Prescott & Grayson are at the top of that list.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I think every QB since Luck will be lucky to make it to mediocre starter. But at some point the old men will retire and I don't see their replacements on the horizon. Half the current crop of "elite" are just lucky enough to keep a very good team from self destructing and not great QBs. QB's don't drive their teams to success nearly as often as they ride their teams to success.
I don't care if we sign Reed or not. He's not a difference maker.
Then the QB thing. If you think Mallet has "Franchise QB" potential, don't draft a QB. If you're not sure draft one who does. You gotta luck at the long & short term future of the team.
The joys of pre-draft talk. Today's "significant contributors" are next year's "they are only rookies and can't be expected to make an impact players".
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I thought quarterback play was detrimental to this season. Didn't you?
Imagine where this team would be right now with better quarterback play .... That's the main reason we are on the outside looking in at the playoffs.
Thing is , quarterback is the hardest position in sports to fill ... There have been several teams trying to solve the riddle for a decade who have come up empty.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Good analysis. I guess I am just a bitter, blue in the face, little troll. I guess I should just eat all the crap on the plate I am fed and not question it, then maybe I can become a "true fan" like you.
Awesome, will you serve it to me?
Change, in all facets of life, rarely happens when everyone quietly eats the the crap on the plate they are fed. It generally requires people standing up and calling for it. Otherwise you have Schaub and Kubiak for 7 years. I don't even want change though, I just don't want to marry into a long term relationship with Mallett. I don't think that's too much to ask. That 3 year / $12 MM contract that everyone suggested would be pretty cool if it existed though, but I don't believe it's anything more than a pipe dream.
I guess when Hoyer was taken from the Patriots by former Patriots personnel to the Browns that had nothing to do with comfort and a working relationship either. At least the Browns found their franchise QB in Hoyer though. He looked good out there in those last 5 must win games of the season.
TexansFTW
Veteran
People in these forums say this every year, and every year these forums also say how much better the next year's QB class is. You never find the guy when you always pass on him. With that said, if Cook doesn't declare I want nothing to do with this year's QB class either.
You don't think anything he did this year was pretty good? He didn't have the heart of the Vikings offense to lean on as a crutch as he learned the game in Adrian Peterson, instead he was thrown to the wolves w/ McKinnon and Asiata who are middling NFL talent at best.
His best WR was a guy they took off the Browns' practice squad late September early October. AND he still led the Vikings to more wins this year than they had last year while showing considerable improvement with each passing week. Gotta respectfully disagree on this evaluation of Teddy B.
Well said. This is how I feel just about every year.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Petty and maybe Grayson...Hundley went back last to improve and is still pretty terrible as a passer. I'm not even sure teams will want Prescott's as a qb...his future in the NFL will likely be at another position...not as a qb...he's a mediocre passer as well
As long as we've got Arian we've got a great foundation to develop a young QB. But we've leaned on Arian a lot longer than we should have. If he can't put together 8~10 games next year whoever our QB is will most likely struggle. I've got little faith that Blue can fill in adequately.
I can't tell if you're serious. There were no Patriot people in Cleveland. Hoyer bounced around the league a little before ending up in Cleveland. The only reason they were excited about him was that Cleveland is his home town. He's pretty much their Case Keenum.
Them aint my words .... shouldn't put your response inside the quote , just causes confusion.
If that's your opinion .... you are entitled to it. But I think there are better options than Savage.
I'd take a hard look at all three. All of them have their flaws and things that need improvement but you have to at least do your due diligence on all of the prospects.
Number19
Hall of Fame
You are all responding without thinking what my response was directed toward. I, too, was looking at the situation "through Jj's eyes" - "Two play off wins (two division titles) a horrible 2013 & a pisser of a 9-7 season. 35-31.... Next year we'll be division winners again...".
If our focus is directed toward being division winners next year, then we should do all we can to maximize the probability of success. It is a short term focus. Drafting a QB lowers the chances of near term success while potentially increasing the chances of longer term success.
And I dare say that franchises seldom approach the draft with the mindset that players taken in rounds one and two are not going to contribute significantly, with the exception of QB. And certainly not JJ.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Reed is a starter. If we don't resign him, then the position needs to be addressed. If we address this need through the draft, the chances of a rookie making an impact decreases significantly beyond the second round.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
I don't understand all the hand-wringing about the Texans' QB situation.
They won nine games with QBs from Column A, B, C and D. Not bad at all.
Keenum showed he's improved to the point of being a capable backup. So re-sign him and that spot's filled.
Then let the other two or three, plus a draft pick or free agent, go at it for the other spots.
It's just not a crisis.
They won nine games with QBs from Column A, B, C and D. Not bad at all.
Keenum showed he's improved to the point of being a capable backup. So re-sign him and that spot's filled.
Then let the other two or three, plus a draft pick or free agent, go at it for the other spots.
It's just not a crisis.
Just a recurring problem.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
The focus is on the No. 1 spot, and of course with good reason.
But there are a lot of shaky backups in the league. (As Steeler fan, I shudder to think what will happen Saturday night if Roethlisberger has to leave the game. I'm not ready for the Gradkowski Era.) The Texans just may have stumbled onto a decent one. So lock him up.
It was strange to hear McClain say that they're unlikely to re-sign him. Given his low cost, it seems like a no-brainer.
But there are a lot of shaky backups in the league. (As Steeler fan, I shudder to think what will happen Saturday night if Roethlisberger has to leave the game. I'm not ready for the Gradkowski Era.) The Texans just may have stumbled onto a decent one. So lock him up.
It was strange to hear McClain say that they're unlikely to re-sign him. Given his low cost, it seems like a no-brainer.
Lock him up for doing what exactly ?! Playing decent in one game ?
I'm with Wolf a few pages back , give him a multi year deal worth about $4m per with an escape clause for the franchise after the first season so you can get away from him , draft a good prospect in the early rounds (Hundley or Grayson?) that you can move on to should be not be capable and not damage the cap situation in the process.
This doesn't break the bank , gives you another year to evaluate and a backup plan should he flop. No reason to keep sending a guy out there who isn't good enough .... Kinda like what we saw them do with Fitz , continuing to run him out there was a waste of time. If Mallett isn't the right man , you have your draft pick & Savage to move on to .... Keeping the process moving along , not wasting an entire season with the wrong guy.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ok I missed this, McClain said they were unlikely to re-sign who and why?
curious as to who to count on being here next year?
I agree with that. But franchise QBs don't come around all the time. Gotta get him while you can & I'm not saying he's necessarily a first round guy.
Reed is like Fitzpatrick a net zero player. He neither adds or subtracts from our chances of winning. I'd much rather lock up the less expensive John Simon & roll with it.
You say this, but at least 2 HC's and 3 DC's have seen it different. I think he does just what they want him to
You mean they would ask him to rush the passer more with better results?
That's not his primary job