NYTexansFan
Waterboy
Spot on.
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Who's your quarterback - 2015 v2.0
- Thread starter Corrosion
- Start date
Spot on.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Clowney could be a complete bust, but he won't set us back 6 years like David Carr did.
Amobi Okoye was pretty much a bust, but team continued to progress around him. It's hard to get better on the OL when your QB is running into sacks, or holding the ball too long. It's hard to find good receivers when your QB can only throw a 5 yard slant. It's hard to put together a good defense when your QB can't keep drives alive, or keeps turning the ball over on the wrong side of the field.
& most teams, for whatever reason will let that 1st round QB play through it for 3 years before they give up on him.
Dereck Carr. He looks promising even though he didn't win his first game until his 10th start. Even though he was named starter in the preseason. Case Keenum finally won in his 10th start, but it won't be no thing for the Houston Texans to not even consider him for a roster spot in 2015. All the other numbers are comparable.
This is supposed to support your argument?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Look all i know is it is amazing to me that AJ "can only get OPEN for Case Keenum" haha i mean really, when Fitz is in the game AJ looks old and slow when Keenum is is the game AJ still looks like a top 5 NFL WR.
I never understood why Fitz rarely looked AJs way. I think Mallet and AJ will compliment eachother next season, and AJ will put up another 1300+ yard season. Although he is getting older the man still has it !
I never understood why Fitz rarely looked AJs way. I think Mallet and AJ will compliment eachother next season, and AJ will put up another 1300+ yard season. Although he is getting older the man still has it !
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Clowney might have been the difference on playoffs this year. Carr set us back that long due to self-inflicted wounds. Your argument is built upon an inability to move on. We could have taken Big Ben in 2004, Rodgers in 2005, etc.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Oh please. He made the right choice, and nothing Keenum has done in these two games makes his decision bad. Are we watching the same games?
Why does Keenum automatically go in as backup?
I agree with this.
Yes.
For whatever reason. Teams won't move on from a first round QB as fast as they'll move on from any other position taken in that same first round.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Some teams yes and some no. Matt Leinart didn't even make 16 games as a starter. Looks like the Jets will move on from Geno in less than 2 years. The Bucs the same with Glennon. Gabbert got a season and a half of starts.
The Texans QB blocked themselves but that's on them not some rule.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Glennon was a 3rd round pick.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
disregard
The Texans had a very good O-line a few years ago when Foster was rushing for 1600 yards and Schaub was considered a very good QB. They had Brown, Wade Smith, Myers, Brisiel, and Winston. Then the wheels started coming off with the cap being so low and they had to let Brisiel and Winston go. They still managed to have their first 2 playoff seasons after that but there were signs of trouble at the beginning of 2013 season with Wade Smith aging, Brown having surgery, and Newton having injuries and not playing very well. Plus Ben Jones and Brandon Brooks swapping in and out every game made it hard for the line to have any continuity. All of this along with Foster going on IR early and Schaub's arm "falling off" made 2013 a year to forget!
This year, with Brown and Newton being healthy, Wade Smith gone and Jones/Su'a-Filo in, and Brooks settled in at RG, the line looks a lot better. And, with Foster being somewhat more healthier and with better QB play, the offense has looked a lot better IMO. Sure there were some bad spots but overall I think they played well.
Now, as for the QB situation, my guess is Mallet will be the starter next year. I wasn't a Mallet fan when the Texans picked him up but that 1st game he played changed my mind quite a bit. Just wish we could've seen more of the healthy Mallet. Might have made the off season a little more certain.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
Reasonable. But why should Mallett be anointed the starter after just one full game (pre-injury)?
Let all three of them go at it in camp.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's not anointing anything. These are not new guys to OB. OB had cut Keenum, benched Fitz and started Mallett.
speedfreek
All Pro
Because Keenum and Fitz are basically the same guy right now and
#1 Fitz is more expensive
and
#2 There is still more room for improvement with Keenum.
Bringing back Fitz is dumbassery, and beyond pointless.
Keenum got us our best win (Baltimore) and played better against
a common opponent than Fitz (Jax)
That's why. It really isn't hard to see it, unless you just have either:
a) a man-crush on stinkypete(tm)
or
b) unresolved hate for Keenum..
If Mallet was here since training camp, O'Brien would have named him. They'll have the official qb's battle but O'Brien will probably name his starter early to not was time (like he named Fitz).
I really don't think anyone is going to be better than Mallet in this system from free agency. Nor do I think someone in the draft is ready to start.
And the way O'Brien is, he is a loyal coach. I would bet he will ask Case to come back to camp for winning the last 2 games and help getting the Texans to a winning season. Case proved he can win in the league even though his role is just a back up or a short term job. Fitz is the odd man out. What Case did today was earned a shot at playing again next year (might not be on the Texans).
Norg???
Think people are forgetting O'brien in this.
We have a head coach who likes/wants a pure tall pocket passer.
For all of Keenhams skill sets i don't think pocket passer is one of them.
For me it is Mallet with Fitz back up/mentoring role with savage and another fighting for 3rd spot.
Could see us trying out Sam Bradford if rams release him or someone of his ilk.
I don't want to trade up for a top 2 QB in this draft. Too expensive.
Mallett for me and draft big on the O Line.
But hey i know nothing as i am a limey from across the pond hehehe ; )
We have a head coach who likes/wants a pure tall pocket passer.
For all of Keenhams skill sets i don't think pocket passer is one of them.
For me it is Mallet with Fitz back up/mentoring role with savage and another fighting for 3rd spot.
Could see us trying out Sam Bradford if rams release him or someone of his ilk.
I don't want to trade up for a top 2 QB in this draft. Too expensive.
Mallett for me and draft big on the O Line.
But hey i know nothing as i am a limey from across the pond hehehe ; )
BullNation4Life
All Pro
and make Tony Romo look competent...until he remembers he is Tony Romo...
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I suspect the price to retain Mallett will make him the likely starter because of the investment. But if we get him for $5M or less then a healthy competition would be nice.
speedfreek
All Pro
I don't want a 10 year vet with a history of below average play
mentoring any of my QB's.
Brady is a mentor, Manning is a mentor, Elway/Marino/Montana are
mentors.
StinkyPete(tm) is not a mentor
NYTexansFan
Waterboy
The guy was a seventh round pick with limited tools from from Harvard, has been a starter for years in the league on some bad football teams, posted a 95.3 rating this season with 19 TD's (2 rushing) to 8 INT's, knows how to pick up systems and read defenses and plays with passion on the field, and was chosen by Bill O'Brien as his starter. And you don't think this guy is capable of being a mentor? He has achieved far more with less than 99.9% of all
quarterbacks on the planet over the past decade. Guys that are stars or that have a ton of talent don't always make the best mentors or coaches. And two of the guys you mentioned above, Manning and Brady, you think they are going to come to Houston next season to mentor our quarterback!?
As long as he isn't in charge of teaching the youngsters how to hook slide. He absolutely sucks at that.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
I have to ask, how do you know Fitzpatrick? Friend? Relative? Wife?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I agree that Mallett is the odds on pick to start if he's here next year, but i can't believe people are so easily dismissing Savage as a viable contender to start in 2015. Even though he looked like a fish out of water in his 1st series or 2 when he was thrown in the Colts game, all things considered he looked pretty good.
For 1, he's BoB's handpicked guy....2, i don't think BoB keeps him on the active roster all year if didn't truly believe on some level that this kid was going to be a serious contender to start for this team in 2015; he probably would've went to the practice squad at some point during the year...especially with our Lb situation in flux from week to week. IMO, he clearly protected the kid from other teams poaching him. Furthermore i also think that his development was the main reason we didn't go after Mallett until late in the game. BoB wanted to give the kid a chance..see if his development was where he would've liked it to be; when he realized that he probably wasn't going to get there, they went out and got Mallett @ the 23rd hour.
Year 2 is supposed to be when most guys make their greatest leap forward; look at Keenum's progression from his rookie year preseason to his 2nd year in the preseason. With a full year in the system & learning how to be a pro & all, I think Savage is gonna push whomever is here next year for that starting spot hard & i think that we're gonna see him somewhere in the 1st half of the season.
For 1, he's BoB's handpicked guy....2, i don't think BoB keeps him on the active roster all year if didn't truly believe on some level that this kid was going to be a serious contender to start for this team in 2015; he probably would've went to the practice squad at some point during the year...especially with our Lb situation in flux from week to week. IMO, he clearly protected the kid from other teams poaching him. Furthermore i also think that his development was the main reason we didn't go after Mallett until late in the game. BoB wanted to give the kid a chance..see if his development was where he would've liked it to be; when he realized that he probably wasn't going to get there, they went out and got Mallett @ the 23rd hour.
Year 2 is supposed to be when most guys make their greatest leap forward; look at Keenum's progression from his rookie year preseason to his 2nd year in the preseason. With a full year in the system & learning how to be a pro & all, I think Savage is gonna push whomever is here next year for that starting spot hard & i think that we're gonna see him somewhere in the 1st half of the season.
I'm pretty sure he's family. So he'll never say.
The current evidence as I read it leads me to the conclusion of I don't know and I don't think (speculation) that the Texans honestly know who the starter is 2015. My guess (all it is) is that it is pretty close to 50-50 that the starter is not on the Texans roster at the moment.
I would think it is about 75% Mallett and 25% someone not on the roster. The other candidates currently on the team would just be adding to the time wasted over the past couple of years. Hopefully Mallett does pan out, and the Texans don't spend a year spinning their wheels with him.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Might as well say top 1. "Character counts" is more than lip service here. No way Winston would be an option.
Absent some trade I don't see coming, I don't know how Mallet doesn't wind up with the inside track....for no other reason than coach seems to like him.
Vance87
All Pro
This...and why wouldn't he be...he's the clear cut choice IMO.
nero THE zero
All Pro
That seems kind of silly. How many coaches were super-elite-HOF status players? And their entire job is to "mentor" players.
You know what they say: "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach".
NYTexansFan
Waterboy
If I were spewing nonsense, I could see your point, but what did I say in my post that was erroneous or exaggerated? I'm simply defending the guy and saying he would make a good mentor. Somebody brings up some BS about Marino, Brady, and Manning....it shows a lack of basic understanding of how the NFL works. I never said Fitz was all world, but the guy is treated on here like he is complete garbage. Tennessee thought he was the root of their problems (he was 5-6 as a starter over there last season) and with basically the same players looked like one of the worst teams in league history this season. I think without the injury in the Indy game, this team is likely in the playoffs. It seems odd to cast aside a guy who at least has proven he can play decent QB (17 TD's to 8 INT/ 95.3 rating versus 4 TD's to 5 INT for all other QB's combined/ low 70's rating). I think Fitz has at least earned the right to compete for a spot next season, and may the best man win the starting job, whether that be Mallet, himself, Savage, Keenum, or new guy. Peace out...
You sure love to throw that out, but there is a lot more to the picture than that one little corner
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fitz was 3-6 last year. Locker was 4-3.
In only 1 of those 7 starts for Locker did he have less than 20 passes. That one was 9 att. for Locker v. 33 att. for Fitz ... they lost.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Mallet has my hopes up , but he's still an unknown. I really wouldn't mind if BOB went all Gruden for an off-season and brought in numerous qb's. Im sick of incompetent ,and average doesn't accomplish what we want. I'm ready for top 5 qb play and a series of playoff runs culminating in hardware. You keep bringing them in until you get the next brady and anything extra is a tradeable commodity.
Either Mallett is the guy or .... we waste next season finding out he's not then the next 1-2 years we're doing the same sh!t all over again.
This is why I believe they should draft a QB early even if plan A is to go with Mallett .... That way if Mallett is a flop we're not wasting the entire season , we can move on to plan B. If Mallett shows he is a quality starter then we have talent behind him should he get a hangnail or paper cut.
(That is pending there is a QB worthy of the selection in the first couple rounds).
I really don't care to watch this team flounder for a decade looking for a quarterback .... like some others in recent memory have.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I think we do have plan B... his name is Tom Savage.
I'm for drafting a QB early, as long as BOB sees one he likes. If not, don't force it.
What would you guys think of this idea, sorry if it might have already been brought up but I didn't read the whole thread to get to here.
What would yall think if we re-signed Mallett (3yrs. 12 mil., 4 mil. avg., but only 4 mil. guaranteed), team friendly prove it style of contract that we can get out of in a year if we want to AND draft Brett Hundley in the 2nd round? Hundley has all the physical tools and athleticism, but would need to sit for a year and learn the system behind a mentor. If Mallett sucks we part ways after a year and go with Hundley in 2016. If Mallett is great then hopefully we have a starting QB controversy on our hands, that's always a good thing. Mallett would be cheap compared to other QB's, Hundley would be cheap for several years on a 2nd round rookie contract, and we'd also have the continued development of Savage. If O'Brien is anywhere near the QB guru some folks say he is we could turn a team weakness into a team strength with tradeable options in one season, and if not we don't have alot of money invested in any of them.
What would yall think if we re-signed Mallett (3yrs. 12 mil., 4 mil. avg., but only 4 mil. guaranteed), team friendly prove it style of contract that we can get out of in a year if we want to AND draft Brett Hundley in the 2nd round? Hundley has all the physical tools and athleticism, but would need to sit for a year and learn the system behind a mentor. If Mallett sucks we part ways after a year and go with Hundley in 2016. If Mallett is great then hopefully we have a starting QB controversy on our hands, that's always a good thing. Mallett would be cheap compared to other QB's, Hundley would be cheap for several years on a 2nd round rookie contract, and we'd also have the continued development of Savage. If O'Brien is anywhere near the QB guru some folks say he is we could turn a team weakness into a team strength with tradeable options in one season, and if not we don't have alot of money invested in any of them.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'd love that contract. But I don't think we can make that happen. A one year deal for $4M is the closest we'll come and even that is doubtful. A multi year deal would probably be more expensive in this situation since Mallett will want to be paid for his potential success, not potential failure.
It would essentially be a 1 yr. 4 mil. deal since only 4 mil. is guaranteed. Mallett can want the moon, it don't mean he gets it. The market for an injured 27 yr. old QB with very little productivity, and only 2 starts under his belt and one of those sucked can't be very high and hopefully Malletts agent realizes that. There won't be alot of teams beating his door down to sign him. The contract works to protect the team from investing to much money, and gives Mallett a chance to prove himself to the league that he's worth more.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
He doesn't need a lot of teams interested, only one other team.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I've seen many people on this board say stuff like this...But to my knowledge, BoB hasn't given Mallett any more effusive praise above and beyond what he's done for Fitz or any other guy that has started for him this year. Seems to me to just be messageboard banter backed by nothing. He might like him, but we won't know just how much he likes him until numbers start leaking out about what the Texans are willing to offer him to stay. Which i wouldn't go anymore than 4-5 million per. Just not alot to go on with what he has on tape.
Almost where I'm at. I don't think they should draft a QB at all unless it's someone they love. Someone they would trade up for. Not that they will, or that they'll have to. Only that they would if they have to.
Because we've already got two guys that might be the guy & I think if we're going to pick up another QB we'd have to like him more than the two we already got. If not, then all we need is someone practice squad eligible to run the scout team.
I also don't like how the more talented guys are being prepared for the NFL. Mariota, Hundley... practically never took a snap from under center. Year one I'd have them running the practice squad & I'd have a special assistant quality control coach work with them 24/7 on mechanics. Then he'll compete for the back-up job.
After what we've seen from OB & Fitz, I think he should be able to make us competitive enough with either Mallett or Savage while giving them every opportunity to prove they are the guy.
That's if we sign Mallett. If we don't sign Mallett, then they need to draft a prospect they like if they can't find one they love.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Fitzpatrick has a higher QB rating (by a bit) than 2 of those guys.
I know what you're saying as it pertains to actual game experience, but I would assume that O'Brien knows a lot more about Mallett simply because he coached him as a rookie, knows he learned this system behind Brady for three years, and sees him every day in practice and meetings. That gives O'Brien 1000 times more insight than anything we can utilize for analysis.
That's not entirely true. O'Brien does not mind some of the intangibles like height, athleticism, strong arm, but those are not the prime qualities that he is looking for with his starting QB.
He has said that the three things he looks for is accuracy, football intelligence, and clutch under pressure.
Here is a good article from last off-season with solid insight into O'Brien's perspectives on QBs:
The Bill OBrien Prototype: What Houstons New Head Honcho Expects From His Quarterback
Might as well say top 1. "Character counts" is more than lip service here. No way Winston would be an option.
Absent some trade I don't see coming, I don't know how Mallet doesn't wind up with the inside track....for no other reason than coach seems to like him.
I agree with your take about Mallett having the inside track. None of us have more insight than anyone else, but for me, the logical choices based on a variety of factors is that they will work a deal with Mallett.
The "game manager" label is a curious one. It is often spoken with derision of a QB.
However, in reality ALL QBs are game managers. If a QB cannot manage his offense and understand the flow of the game, he's most likely not even a competent QB.
With some QBs, game managers is all they are, but for others, they are that plus some of the other descriptions, like big arm, clutch, mobile, running QBs, scramblers, etc.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Every argument that starts or involves "BoB or Rick Smith have much more insight into these players for X reasons and therefore know more than we do" are IMO just blind faith posts.
I've been a Houston fan long enough to forego any blind faith. I like to question things I don't agree with, that's why I personally come to these forums. To question, vent, and become educated.
Blind faith causes you to waste the best years of your talent on the field and close your fleeting super bowl windows blindly following guys like Kubiak or Mike Smith (Kubes 2).
Screw BoB's insight as it pertains to Mallett. He's just comfortable with the kid, but the kid is a loser and we are about to marry into another unhealthy 4 year relationship because of comfort.
Just my opinion... I'd love to be wrong though.
Then they drafted Savage, lol. He's looking for size.
I've been a Houston fan long enough to forego any blind faith. I like to question things I don't agree with, that's why I personally come to these forums. To question, vent, and become educated.
Blind faith causes you to waste the best years of your talent on the field and close your fleeting super bowl windows blindly following guys like Kubiak or Mike Smith (Kubes 2).
Screw BoB's insight as it pertains to Mallett. He's just comfortable with the kid, but the kid is a loser and we are about to marry into another unhealthy 4 year relationship because of comfort.
Just my opinion... I'd love to be wrong though.
Then they drafted Savage, lol. He's looking for size.
I cant believe the blind homerism when it comes to Savage.
The guy is a total project. He has the size and arm of the prototypical quarterback and that's what got him drafted , nothing more.
He's proven nothing and when he did get an opportunity he looked horrible. How many snaps did he put on the ground and how many plays got screwed up as a result of his poor footwork ?!
He's a 4th round quarterback project and the odds are against him doing anything in the league.
Do you really want to bank on that when it comes to the future success of the franchise ?!
We've had better than a decade of mediocrity ... Savage as option B is just asking for more of the same. The amount of improvement required for him to become even a Fitzpatrick level quarterback is asking for a miracle.
I said pretty much the same thing :
I don't want them to draft a guy just because he plays the position , he has to have the potential to be a franchise QB. This is why I was perfectly ok with not drafting a quarterback early last draft , especially at 1:1.
I was the first one on these forums to state that I didn't see any franchise QB's in last years draft and that we should stay away from them.
You factor in the importance of the position and you take a gamble on a guy like Savage in the 4th , if it works out great if not ..... back to the drawing board.
Savage looks like a deer in headlights .... back to the drawing board.
That is what I was getting at with my previous post without being specific to one player or another.
And if Mallett flops , you don't have to waste the entire season on him. You can plug in Hundley (or whoever it was you drafted) at some point in the season in preparation for the next year ....
At this point , I don't know if Hundley would be my choice but I like the thought process of not wasting another entire season with your hopes on one guy figuring it out .... or not.