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Who's the one?

LiveForTheGame

LiveForTheGame

Waterboy
The Texans can only keep 5 receivers...and so far 4 are pretty securely locked up to be on the team. Who's going to be the last guy to make the team?

(I'll admit that I laughed very hard when Starling was run over by Hollings...)
 
I assume when you say 4 spots are locked up you're referring to
1.Andre Johnson
2.Bradford
3.Gaffney
4.Armstrong

As far as the 5th wideout goes it will be largely due upon special teams. Duff had a very good showing last night, but if he isn't able to unseat JJ then in all likelihood that 5th spot will belong to him. However, if Duff does unseat JJ then I believe Thomas might make the roster depending on how well he plays on special teams. Right now I'd vote for giving Duff the return duties, and putting Thomas at that 5th WR spot. It's only been one preseason game, so its all up in the air still.
 
I think the Texans are going to keep 5 WR's PLUS whoever is the return specialist. Last year they kept 4 RB's (Davis, Hollings, Mack, Wells) but will probably only keep 3 this year. That extra roster spot is probably going to go to WR, where there is an excess of good young players.
 
The Texans can keep more than 5 WRs if they want to. They probably won't but they aren't limited to 5.

I really don't see a front runner yet for the #5 position. Lewis has nice size (also dropped a sure TD), Starling has great speed, and Thurman has shown the ability to make difficult catches. Thomas finally made a play or two Saturday night, and Chris Taylor and Albert Johnson are bringing up the rear at the moment IMO.

I think the job is still JJ's to lose but if Duff shows sure hands and adequate yards per return, he could easily be the new return man which has its advantages because Duff can also be used on coverage teams or special DB assignments, etc., whereas JJ's value as anything but a return man is negligible.

Duff's chances just improved because it appeared that Jason Anderson was also going to be used on kickoff returns and now he's done for the year. The Texans won't say it but I think they really want Duff to succeed in order to get more bang out of the roster spot that JJ held last year.
 
I saw something on NBC (I believe) last night about the situation. They were talking to Thomas and Taylor. I thought it was a pretty good little segment on the situation. Did anyone else see it... idonno:
 
Duff did not show me anything this week. He had two fairly large holes to run through and did not. If he wants to unseat JJ he will have to do more then run into everyone. He did not make one guy miss the whole night.
 
I'm on the Duff Wagon. I thought he runs like a running back when he makes a catch. North-South style, making one move and not alot of lateral juking. He isn't going to be arm tackled easily. He looks like a football player to me. JJ is in trouble methinks.
 
Vinny said:
I'm on the Duff Wagon. I thought he runs like a running back when he makes a catch. North-South style, making one move and not alot of lateral juking. He isn't going to be arm tackled easily. He looks like a football player to me. JJ is in trouble methinks.
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:thumbup

I second that exact sentiment.
 
Vinny said:
I'm on the Duff Wagon. I thought he runs like a running back when he makes a catch. North-South style, making one move and not alot of lateral juking. He isn't going to be arm tackled easily. He looks like a football player to me. JJ is in trouble methinks.
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i disagree. the most impressive run i saw from duff was a punt return inside our 15 that he juked his way to around the 30 (first quarter). they were some impressive moves and really suprising he made the first guy miss when he was already so close (likely holding back). shortly after on a punt return he had a LARGE hole straight infront of him but didnt accelerate out of there quick enough to make something of it (2nd quarter). he made a move in an attempt to better get to the hole and danced a little bit instead of lowering his head and running.

he looked just like JJ to me (in that outing) but he didnt look like he accelerates near as fast. while he might be faster with a full head of steam i dont think that's near as important.
 
The only JJ has against any other guy is agility, and he knows that, which is a bad thing. He gets caught up in trying to woo the fans (especially to all the bullpen folks who chant his name, then he goes out there and makes a jillion jukes and gets nowhere). Duff gets the ball and goes, which I like. Meanwhile, JJ would still be back there trying to break guys' ankles, Duff would be 5 yards downfield.
 
I like JJ Moses, and just have a feeling about him making huge contributions to whoever he is with. However, if we go with Duff over JJ, after finally getting to see Duff for myself, I feel pretty good about him too. I believe Moses can make more guys miss, and get yards when everything is shut down. But Duff may allow the recieving corps to be more effective. If that is the case, you probably have to go with Duff. But I still would like to see JJ used as a receiver in screens and dumps to get in the secondary.
 
If Duff can be as consistant/dependable as JJ and do better on punts, then let's use him. Otherwise, JJ. Dependability means a lot and he regularly put us over the 35 on kickoffs. The only knock I have with him is on punts and I am not sure if that was him or the guys trying to make it work.
 
A lot of folks have made comments about the punt returns and that JJ was towards the bottom in the league on punt returns. True, but for a little perspective here, his punt return average was 6.9 yards. To get into the top half you need 9.2 yards or a whopping 2.3 yard improvement. JMO, but if the competition is done straight up on return ability JJ's sure hands and potential to develop (his 1st year as a returner he performed in between Dante Hall's 2nd and 3rd years) will win over worrying about a couple of yards on punt returns. Now if someone can step up and show that they will make a significant contribution on special teams coverage or at their nominal position then JJ will be in trouble. Right now I am not sure I see Duff contributing more on kick coverage and as a CB than the other depth guys we have at that position--Bell, Simmons, Vaughn.
 
I was impressed with Vontez Duff on punt returns. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, he runs North-South as soon as he received the ball.

I love JJ, but he jitter bugs to the west and jitter bugs to the east, he puts one foot out and shakes it all about ........
 
JJ isnt that young, and doesnt have much potential to improve his breakaway speed, his biggest drawback. I lost all faith in Moses when he got walked by a LB on the KO return vs. the Jets.
 
BradK10 said:
JJ isnt that young, and doesnt have much potential to improve his breakaway speed, his biggest drawback. I lost all faith in Moses when he got walked by a LB on the KO return vs. the Jets.
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You mean when he got caught on the 63 yard return with 1:21 left in the game that gave us a chance to win the game? You're right, shame on him for setting us up that way. It always boggles my mind when people talk about returners and criticize them not because they got caught at their own 18 or 25, no it is getting caught after 63 yards--that's what causes them to lose faith.
 
It is way too early to judge who is ahead in the return man race. Duff showed a little, but not near enough to unseat Moses. I have been very vocal about the Texans need to improve in the return game and that Moses would need to improve if he wants to have a roster spot solely based on his return abilities. So far Moses is still in the lead because Duff has only returned kicks and punts in one preseason game against NFL competition. The decision on this position won't be made until the final preseason game, after both guys have had more chances to show what they can do.
 
Duff got nearly all the reps in practice tonight and JJ sat there and watched.

As far as the receivers competing for a possible #5, I think Sloan and Starling are leading the pack now and Jermaine Lewis has slid back a bit along with Thurman. Albert Johnson and Chris Taylor seem to be bringing up the rear. This is based only on what I've seen in five practices, the Dolphins scrimmage, and the Cowboys game.
 
JJ is getting very little game or practice time recently. Makes me think they want someone to prove themself better. Duff muffed a kick this evening as did another player--didn't catch the number.

As a side question--JJ didn't muff a kick during the season last year, I haven't seen one in practice this year or last--does anyone ever remember him missing a kick reception?
 
infantrycak said:
JJ is getting very little game or practice time recently. Makes me think they want someone to prove themself better. Duff muffed a kick this evening as did another player--didn't catch the number.

As a side question--JJ didn't muff a kick during the season last year, I haven't seen one in practice this year or last--does anyone ever remember him missing a kick reception?
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He got hammered by two guys simultaneously when he played at Green Bay, before he ever got to take a step, but I don't think he dropped that one either, and none others at Green Bay. He had absolutely NO blocking.

As an interesting sidelight, Green Bay replaced Moses with Eric Metcalf, who proceeded to get negative yardage in punt returns. If I remember right, Green Bay released Eric...
 
enjoye'd reading y'alls comments regarding the WR's. I have to say I agree 100% with Vinny, Vontez Duff is surprising the hell out of me with his return performances, lets see if he can continue to be solid or if it's just an aberration. Personally I think he looks like the real deal, plus as has been stated his primary positon will be that coveted CB, where in time he could develop into Glenns replacement, not a bad 6th round draft pick at all. So to answear the WR'S question I would choose:
1.Andre Johnson
2.Bradford
3.Gaffney
4.Armstrong
5.Sloan Thomas - speed kills
 
Can Duff actually be good enough to see the field as a cornerback?

Or is Duff, like Moses, a one-trick pony whose only value is as a return specialist?
 
BornOrange said:
Can Duff actually be good enough to see the field as a cornerback?

Or is Duff, like Moses, a one-trick pony whose only value is as a return specialist?
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I could see him working as a Dime Back perhaps, or even in situations where the Texans will use a Zone Defense. I really can't see him becoming Glenn's replacement. We would probably have to go back to the draft, or to free agency to get a comprable corner. I think when Glenn retires that Robinson will try and fill his shoes, and the Texans will try and get another tough hard nosed corner to play opposite him if Faggins is unable to do so.
 
Sloan Thomas- Sloan has good size, strength and speed for his position. He played in a big time program in a receiver set that included Roy Williams and BJ Johnson. He runs routes very well and does a good job catching the ball. Has played all three receiver positions and has been used as a jack-of-all-trades type of player. He has been the coach’s emotional fallback guy.

Watching Sloan on film is like watching a pinball fly around one of those old pinball games before they invented computers. In one film, he is a wide out because Roy (Pink) Williams was hurt or had a cold or whatever. In another, he is in the slot or flipping with Johnson so that BJ could get loose to catch a pass. After watching this kid for a while, I realized what a team player he is and how much he is sacrificing his own personal game. I started to watch him more closely in everything even if it was just watching him take a swig of water. I felt like a stalker, but I had to find out about this kid because of the character that he showed in his play on the field. I looked for stats to help in analyzing him- fugetaboutit- so I waited for his pro day to see what he did in his drills. Here they are- 6’ 1”- 200lbs, ran a 4.45 and a 4.52- his 3 cone was 6.94. The 3-cone drill helps me to understand if he can be quick in and out of his breaks. Most of the good cornerbacks do the cone in under 7.00, so it makes sense that WR’s should be doing it in 7.00 or less. I think Sloan has the potential (because of what I see on the film) to be a better player in the NFL than he was in college. That is a gut instinct impression based on – well, to be honest, I’m not sure what it’s based on. That’s just what I think. Besides, he’s got a neat name, too. What is a Sloan? Maybe it’s a Texas song, you know- Sloan, Sloan on the Range. I think we got a sleeper here, TEXANS

Vontez Duff- Has good overall muscle definition, with a thick chest, good shoulders and defined thighs and calves … Shows adequate ability to read and react quickly to the play … Shows a good backpedal and the ability to come out of his turn with no wasted motions through transition … Shows effective speed and a closing burst to recover when beaten … Has the range to make plays in front of him … Comes up fast to lend support vs. the run and is a good drag-down tackler … Has above-average flexibility and agility … Shows the straight-line acceleration needed to "take it to the house" as a kickoff returner.

Exciting return specialist and big-play artist … Was originally recruited as a running back, but moved to the defensive backfield as a true freshman, earning a starting job the following year … Holds the distinction of being the only player in school history to score on an interception, kickoff and punt return in the same season … Started 33 of 47 games for the Irish, recording 98 tackles (74 solos) with three stops for losses of 11 yards, three fumble recoveries, a forced fumble, 17 pass deflections and a blocked kick … Also had seven interceptions for 129 yards in returns (18.4 avg.) with a touchdown … Added 1,230 yards on 47 kickoff returns (26.2 avg.), including a pair of scores, the fourth-best career totals in school history behind Raghib Ismail (1,271 yards, 1988-90), Jim Stone (49 returns, 1977-80), Tim Brown (69 for 1,613, 1984-87) and Julius Jones (72 for 1,678, 1999-2003) … Had 73 punt returns for 725 yards (9.9 avg.) and a touchdown … Only Dave Duerson (869, 1979-82) and Frank Carideo (947, 1928-30) gained more yards on punt returns in school annals … His total kick return yardage of 1,955 is surpassed only by Brown (2,089) and Jones (2,104) in Notre Dame history.

Sloan is the perfect compliment to the Texans top WR's, he is a team player with excellent speed. Duff is clearly much stronger than JJ Moses, just as fast but with a NFL body type that will hold up to the violent nature of special teams. Also you really don't know how he can develop as a CB in the NFL, he already has the experience & raw tools needed that in the event of unforseen injury or game time decision could be very effective. :soapbox:
 
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