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Who else is uncomfortable with becoming the Houston Broncos...

P

phan1

Rookie
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.
 
phan1 said:
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.
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You obviously haven't paid much attention to Denver. Denver has one of the better defenses in the league. They especially have a great trio of LB's. They are one of the fastest, and most aggressive defenses in the league.
 
phan1 said:
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.
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I agree. I think it is a little unsettling. But, Kubiak was never in charge over in Denver. We have to have faith that he will find his own way.
 
phan1 said:
Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well.
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I dunno....but maybe that's because they have such a superior record every
year they only get to pick over the left overs from the the earlier picks made
by all of the loosers. But I do seem to recall them making some pretty good picks in the later rounds over the years.
I went to see a scrimmage last year in pre-season at one of the Reliant Field
practice fields and watched the Texans go against the Broncos.
The Bronco's were very quick, very aggressive, and obviously highly disciplined and looked far superior to the Texans. I got no trouble with using that kind of team as a role model.
 
phan1 said:
Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team.
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I think the lack of "star" players is probably because Denver's system relies so much on players acting as a unit rather than getting an Urlacher or Ray Lewis and then finding a way to keep blockers off of them until they can make plays.

Yes, the offense is mostly centered around the running game. The Broncos can pass though, and I don't care if the offense is centered around the guy who tapes their ankles as long as they score points - and they do.
 
Oooo, you said Urlacher, I would love to have that guy on our LB squad. Imagine Urlacher, Demeco and Greenwood as our LB's. Geesh, I need some football.:francis:
 
phan1 said:
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.
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I said this a long, long time ago. It's ridiculous to form your team in the image of another team -- especially when they haven't even gotten into the SB in years. The Browns tried to become a mirror image of the 49ers -- look where that got them. Plus, seems to me that if you wanted the Broncs, then you'd be a Broncs fan. To simply become Broncos Lite is very uncreative and not very smart at all.
 
wrestler4life said:
I agree. I think it is a little unsettling. But, Kubiak was never in charge over in Denver. We have to have faith that he will find his own way.
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With all the faux pas that Kubiak has been involved in up to now, that "faith" is becoming more like "blind faith."
 
I can think of other defensive standouts that were produced in Denver. Guys like Bill Romanowski, Neil Smith, of course Champ, Trevor Pryce. They've had a good defense.

Alot of the reasons you don't see great picks going to Denver is because they are always at the bottom of the draft order due to their record. The other reason is because they are always making key additions in FA. Such as John Lynch and now Johnnie Abraham.

I can't wait to see what these dudes do.
 
The biggest problem I have with it, is that it smacks of cronyism instead of meritocracy. Meaning you are seeing guys filling posts by being buddies, in lieu of merit. This might go away with performance though.

The next big problem will not go so easily, and I am already starting to feel it from the local sportsnards. If we win, it's Denver South... if we lose, it's Bronco South Dump.
 
I wouldn't mind a "poor man's Broncos." That's good for what, at least +4 in the win column this year?

But in all seriousness, Kubiak is forging a new direction for this team. He's picked Denver compatriots because he's comfortable working with them, but for the record, I have no problem with any of his choices so far. They all appear to be solid football minds and terrific upgrades to their predecessors. If I thought the good ol' boy system was bringing in unqualified candidates, then it would be a problem, but so far, everyone he's brought on board has a solid, if not slightly short, resume.
 
HMmmm. Denver back to back superbowls... majority winning seasons... You could say the same about the Patriots... NO Superstars there either. just a TEAM UNIT. through the unit stars are born.

Superstars get frustrated on a team.... TO, Javon Walker, (i'll take the heat for this one) Moulds, etc...

Denver is not a bad team to mirror... you can call me the Houston Broncos for all I care if it gets us to the playoffs and a Superbowl!!!

:bananasplit:
 
AFD1717 said:
I think the lack of "star" players is probably because Denver's system relies so much on players acting as a unit rather than getting an Urlacher or Ray Lewis and then finding a way to keep blockers off of them until they can make plays.
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I completely agree. Teams like the Colts who focus on individual outstanding players instead of focusing on creating a team will never have any SB blings. Teams like Denver and New England have the ability to make use of any level of talent due to their unique playing style.

"We don't collect talent, we build a team"

-Bill Belichick

He knows a thing or two about putting together a team and winning championships.

Maybe Kubiak knows what he is doing... beginning first and foremost with his most noticable move in the off-season... surpassing Reggie to grab Mario. Maybe he knew that we already have an above average run game, and needed a DE more. Maybe we have ourselves a really awesome coaching staff now. I believe it.
 
TwinSisters said:
The biggest problem I have with it, is that it smacks of cronyism instead of meritocracy. Meaning you are seeing guys filling posts by being buddies, in lieu of merit. This might go away with performance though.

The next big problem will not go so easily, and I am already starting to feel it from the local sportsnards. If we win, it's Denver South... if we lose, it's Bronco South Dump.
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This is not uncommon for any new head coach coming in. Cooincidence is that you have more Front Office openings because people have left and cleaning house was done too.

Each of these guys were successful at Denver and that is why he brought them here with him. The more people on the same page allows for efficient and fast progression in football forward.
 
The additions from the Broncos are fine with me. I guess we will see how they pan out in the coming seasons. Would we be better off if we were pulling guys from San Francisco, Detroit, or Phoenix?

I think it all boils down to who the guys in charge are more comfortable working with.
 
this isnt uncomfortable at all i love being like the denver broncos who can sign an undrafted rookie and make him into a great wide reciever that gets 6 TDs and 1000 yards and can draft a RB in the 6th round and get him 12 TDs and 1000 yards. Maybe one day the texans can do that.
 
El Tejano said:
I can think of other defensive standouts that were produced in Denver. Guys like Bill Romanowski, Neil Smith, of course Champ, Trevor Pryce. They've had a good defense.
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Except Trevor Pryce, none of those guys were drafted by Denver....
 
My point exactly. It was suggested that they didn't draft well and I informed it is because they do well in FA and alot of their FA work for them.
 
El Tejano said:
My point exactly. It was suggested that they didn't draft well and I informed it is because they do well in FA and alot of their FA work for them.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but always going out a FA and getting a "star" is a lot more expensive then developing your own talent. They practically have the entire Browns DL. Hopefully we will be able to incorporate a little of both here (not the Browns DL).
 
Personally I love seeing these guys coming over from Denver. The Broncos are a proven franchise that has won titles and is always a contender. We need people that know how to win. You are telling me that you wouldn't take the Patriots or Steelers coaching staff if we had the chance? It's not like these guys will make us any worse (there is no place worse than the worst record in the league). We need to give these guys a chance to win and if they fail we can send them to the plank.
 
I would love having Denver's offensive and defensive stats. Any day of the week. They dint win the Superbowl, but it is hard to win them puppies

I LOVE that they are picking a philosophy and going all out to make that philosophy succeed, instead of picking pieces and parts of different stuff and trying to make it mesh.

Usually, successful coaches bring their disciples with them to their new coaching destinations. And most successful coaches come from systems that were previously successful.

Analogies are sometimes kinda pukey, but for this situation, it is the best way to explain it:

For any of y'all who cook, you know that it is always easier and usually ends up with better results to take a quality recipe you have and then tweak it for your taste than to put together something from scratch. Because you know the basic recipe works. You like it. It is easier to improve.

Last year's offense was a recipe for disaster. Start off one way and then change the recipe--it was an incoherent mess.

Last year's defense was too complicated a recipe to work consistently. Our souffle kept collapsing.

So, if you are making french food, it's best to get french chefs to do it. If you are running a Denver style offense, why not get the most qualified people short of the mastermind to put it together and get the people who know what sorts of personnel fit that system.

As for Clarett, that was not a Rick Smith decision, it was a Shanny decision.

As for "star players"--they get their share of probowlers--even ones who weren't picked high in the draft. You are successful long enough, you need to make successes out of guys that you find in the draft. And if you are successful, you can attract quality FAs.

Texaco, schmexico. Quality stadium, quality fans, financially bigtime franchise--if we get some real football around here and get something going and the league is gonna be in trouble.

Here is one of my blog posts with more in depth information about this subject and the reason why committing to a philosophy is something that should be appreciated and not feared (of course, if you think that the underlying philosophy is good):

link: GM Rick Smith: Welcome to the Texans
 
I agree with TC and others who have clearly demonstrated that the Bronco-type team is a formula for a successful team.

Bring on the playoffs! :texflag:
 
Denver won two Super Bowls in a row 1997-1998. In 1998, they won 13 games in a row to start the season. Hmmmmm..... I think I could be happy with that here......
 
TexansFanatic said:
Denver won two Super Bowls in a row 1997-1998. In 1998, they won 13 games in a row to start the season. Hmmmmm..... I think I could be happy with that here......
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Okay so we should have hired Barry Switzer then? Made Troy Aikman our QB's coach, Emmitt Smith our RBs coach, Irvin our WR's coach, Jerry Jones's daughter-in-law's brother our line coach, Dorsett's son our other line coach, picked up Deon as the player/coach for the DB's, and made Oklahoma the head of our scouting and personel department.

O and Brian Bosworth will be our Strength and Conditioning coach/team counselor.

point in parody

One or two here and there... OK. But Krikey! One or two more hires and you will have to wonder if there is going to be a battle Orange day.
 
BlueThunder said:
I'm more worried about becoming the AM Aggies more then the Denver Broncos.......:whip:
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That TOO!!

Right now we only have three on the squad though... I think. I believe Sherman is just camping and not building a house. So it's not REALLY bad yet. So long as Childress has a chair at the board meetings, I imagine that is going to be a special feature of the Texans every season.

Let me check something...

yeah I think it is still three Holland, Kubiak, and Sherman.

unless I am missing something. I could be... Those **** Aggies are pretty tricky. Sorta like fleas. You can dust them out six times over, but they will keep popping back up.
 
I wouldn't worry guys,everyone was for the hiring of a instate product.We are making major changes and in order for it to work all at once we have to get an aptmisphire that puts everyone on the same page at the same time.In order to accomplish that we need enough coaches from the systems were going to be running.I want Kubiak to feel comfortable with his staff and have the support he needs.This is all about turnning this team around this year.This season has to be a good one for Gary to gain confidence from his players.I think this team just lost confidence in the other staff...:shoot:
 
Someone finally recognized the true plot behind all of this.

Go Aggies

I'm not a big fan of A & M, but hey a Texas A&M man is a Texan too!:yahoo:

Although he's quite a bit younger than me, Jackson Appel and I went to the same HS. Any word of were or what he's doing?:spy:
 
BlueThunder said:
I wouldn't worry guys,everyone was for the hiring of a instate product.We are making major changes and in order for it to work all at once we have to get an aptmisphire that puts everyone on the same page at the same time.In order to accomplish that we need enough coaches from the systems were going to be running.I want Kubiak to feel comfortable with his staff and have the support he needs.This is all about turnning this team around this year.This season has to be a good one for Gary to gain confidence from his players.I think this team just lost confidence in the other staff...:shoot:
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I think Kubiak already has the confidence of the players from everything I've been hearing. That confidence shuld carry into the season and should help the players play better, I don't think they have to have a "successful" season in order for the players to trust him and have confidence in him. You are right on about the team losing all confidence in last year's coaching staff.
 
I could not disagree more with this post... :francis:

The Texans have done no different than most business do when their is a regime/supervisor change. In any business no matter what it is - The supervisor normally chooses the staff who he wants to work with 9 out of 10 times. Thats no different in the NFL.

So far our staff actually looks like this :
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2398&section=N Latest News

Front office:

GM - Rick Smith - Broncos
College Scouting - Dale Strahm - Broncos
Pro Scouting - Chuck Banker - Texans

Coaching Staff:

Gary Kubiak (Head Coach) - Broncos
Mike Sherman (Asst. Head Coach/ Offense) - Packers
Troy Calhoun (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks) - Broncos
Richard Smith (Defensive Coordinator) - Dolphins/Lions
Joe Marciano (Special Teams Coordinator) - Texans
Martin Bayless (Asst. Defensive Backs) - Raiders
John Benton (Offensive Line) - Rams
Chick Harris (Running Backs) - Texans
Jon Hoke (Defensive Backs) - Texans
Johnny Holland (Linebackers) - Packers/Seahawks/Lions
Bob Karmelowicz (Defensive Line) - Chiefs
Mike McDaniel (Offensive Assistant) - Broncos
Brian Pariani (Tight Ends) - Syracuse/Broncos/49ers
Robert Saleh (Defensive Assistant) - Texans
Kyle Shanahan (Wide Receivers) - Bucaneers

By my count thats only 4 people out of 15 coaches who were on the staff with Denver. All of them on the offense side. Then we have 2 Front office folks. - Where is this wholesale change to denver you folks are talking about??

IMO - Some of the above points make it out to seem like Kubiac is clueless and that he and the Texans hired a bunch of misfits who couldnt do their jobs and only got a job here based on their friendship merits with Kubiac alone.

I totally disagree with this PoV and frankly its kind of demeaning to coach Kubes.

My point is - How about this staff being hired because they are talented and competant individuals who are familiar with our team or coach along with being succesful professionals at their respective prior places who saw an opportunity and took a shot to come start something new on our team - eh??

IMO were Taking the best parts of Proven winners strategies and improving on them in our own way to create a better product on the field.

Thats how I see our new staff.

Kubes and the few Denver staff that have come over were proven good at their collective jobs and saw a chance to try something new when our coach moved in. IMO It's not like we hired a bunch of Denver scrubs off the street with no experience like some are making it out to be.

I really found the points comparing our staff to Jerry & the Dallas cowboy ex's in poor taste.
 
I would like to know who said that before the season has even started and we have even seen a play, that everything will be EXACTLY like it was in
Denver? I think some changes will be made and this is not gonna be a duplicate of Denver.
 
Wow. Please tell me that fans are not starting to cry about bringing in talented individuals with a track record of winning.
 
TwinSisters said:
The biggest problem I have with it, is that it smacks of cronyism instead of meritocracy. Meaning you are seeing guys filling posts by being buddies, in lieu of merit.
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I said this a long time ago, too. This is especially true for the assistant coaching staff as well as the GM. It stinks.
 
1) The new boss brings in his boys. That's what happens in sports and business.

2) Capers and Casserly had a 'philosophy' when they started too.

3) Of course players are confident and excited. It's a new regime and the season hasn't started yet. Let them start 3-7 like Saban's bunch last year and see how they react. That's the kind of stuff (how they react when things go bad - as they inevitably will) that will determine how successful this coaching staff, management team and players will be.

4) Whatever works.
 
U4ikrob said:
I could not disagree more with this post... :francis:

The Texans have done no different than most business do when their is a regime/supervisor change. In any business no matter what it is - The supervisor normally chooses the staff who he wants to work with 9 out of 10 times. Thats no different in the NFL.

So far our staff actually looks like this :
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2398&section=N Latest News

Front office:

GM - Rick Smith - Broncos
College Scouting - Dale Strahm - Broncos
Pro Scouting - Chuck Banker - Texans

Coaching Staff:

Gary Kubiak (Head Coach) - Broncos
Mike Sherman (Asst. Head Coach/ Offense) - Packers
Troy Calhoun (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks) - Broncos
Richard Smith (Defensive Coordinator) - Dolphins/Lions
Joe Marciano (Special Teams Coordinator) - Texans
Martin Bayless (Asst. Defensive Backs) - Raiders
John Benton (Offensive Line) - Rams
Chick Harris (Running Backs) - Texans
Jon Hoke (Defensive Backs) - Texans
Johnny Holland (Linebackers) - Packers/Seahawks/Lions
Bob Karmelowicz (Defensive Line) - Chiefs
Mike McDaniel (Offensive Assistant) - Broncos
Brian Pariani (Tight Ends) - Syracuse/Broncos/49ers
Robert Saleh (Defensive Assistant) - Texans
Kyle Shanahan (Wide Receivers) - Bucaneers

By my count thats only 4 people out of 15 coaches who were on the staff with Denver. All of them on the offense side. Then we have 2 Front office folks. - Where is this wholesale change to denver you folks are talking about??

IMO - Some of the above points make it out to seem like Kubiac is clueless and that he and the Texans hired a bunch of misfits who couldnt do their jobs and only got a job here based on their friendship merits with Kubiac alone.

I totally disagree with this PoV and frankly its kind of demeaning to coach Kubes.

My point is - How about this staff being hired because they are talented and competant individuals who are familiar with our team or coach along with being succesful professionals at their respective prior places who saw an opportunity and took a shot to come start something new on our team - eh??

IMO were Taking the best parts of Proven winners strategies and improving on them in our own way to create a better product on the field.

Thats how I see our new staff.

Kubes and the few Denver staff that have come over were proven good at their collective jobs and saw a chance to try something new when our coach moved in. IMO It's not like we hired a bunch of Denver scrubs off the street with no experience like some are making it out to be.

I really found the points comparing our staff to Jerry & the Dallas cowboy ex's in poor taste.
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You miss the point. Kubiak knew most of his coaching staff during previous stints and did not pick them due to their experience but because they were his buddies. And please, stop with the "Kube" stuff. It's getting pretty pathetic.
 
aj. said:
The new boss brings in his boys. That's what happens in sports and business.

Capers and Casserly had a 'philosophy' when they started too.

Of course players are confident and excited. The season hasn't started yet. Let them start 3-7 like Saban's bunch last year and see how they react. That's the kind of stuff that will determine how good this coaching staff and management team really is, and how much the players have bought in.

Whatever works.
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But Capers didn't bring in a bunch of Carolina and Jacksonville guys. And Casserly wasn't an associate of Capers previously. This whole thing with Kubiak bringing in his cronies really does smell and I've smelled it for a while now.
 
Holden135 said:
Personally I love seeing these guys coming over from Denver. The Broncos are a proven franchise that has won titles and is always a contender. We need people that know how to win. You are telling me that you wouldn't take the Patriots or Steelers coaching staff if we had the chance? It's not like these guys will make us any worse (there is no place worse than the worst record in the league). We need to give these guys a chance to win and if they fail we can send them to the plank.
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When was the last time the Broncos even sniffed a SB without John Elway?
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree with TC and others who have clearly demonstrated that the Bronco-type team is a formula for a successful team.

Bring on the playoffs! :texflag:
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That's exactly what the Browns said when they became 49ers Lite. You saw what happened to the Browns -- and the 49ers as well. I was a Browns fan back then but when they simply became another version of the 49ers I dumped them. Now the Texans are doing the same thing. Time for another trip to "The Dump!!"
 
aj. said:
1) The new boss brings in his boys. That's what happens in sports and business.

2) Capers and Casserly had a 'philosophy' when they started too.

3) Of course players are confident and excited. It's a new regime and the season hasn't started yet. Let them start 3-7 like Saban's bunch last year and see how they react. That's the kind of stuff (how they react when things go bad - as they inevitably will) that will determine how successful this coaching staff, management team and players will be.

4) Whatever works.
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A.) The new boss is supposed to bring in the best folks for the job -- not cronies. B.) Philosophy is one thing. Cronyism is another. C.) Umm, cronyism may very well be one of the many reasons why this DOESN'T work. D.) Cronyism is an activity that should not be lauded, no matter what business you're in.
 
As someone who lives in Denver, and is surrounded by the winning atmosphere and high expectations on a daily basis - let's just say we (Houston and Texan fans) should be so lucky!
 
We need good chemistry not just on the field but behind the scenes too.
Seems to me the Kubes is bringing in guys he is comfortable with and probably share his philosophy, not people he feels he owes.


I mean, it's not like he is picking the new head of FEMA or something. :woot2
 
Denver can kiss my azz!They ain't holding nothing on the state of Texas...:howdy:

So all you Denver nuggets need to go back and check yourself and decide if its worth it to you,because we don't drink whiskey from a wine glass down here,,,.You guys have your work cut out for you and the best thing for failure down here is a new rope and a tall tree...Now grab that musket were all going to be heros,,,,


:logo: :trophy:

You have entered Texas,,
 
Capster67 said:
As someone who lives in Denver, and is surrounded by the winning atmosphere and high expectations on a daily basis - let's just say we (Houston and Texan fans) should be so lucky!
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Texans are supposed to be unique -- not copies of another non-Super Bowl, one-and-out unexceptional group. I thought that's what being a Texan was all about. If it's not, go to Denver and cheer for the originals.
 
South Texan said:
We need good chemistry not just on the field but behind the scenes too.
Seems to me the Kubes is bringing in guys he is comfortable with and probably share his philosophy, not people he feels he owes.


I mean, it's not like he is picking the new head of FEMA or something. :woot2
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"Bringing in guys he's comfortable with" rather than the most qualified? Check out the definition of "cronyism." I think you just recited the meaning of the word.
 
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