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Who doesn't want Bush now?

wrestler4life

wrestler4life

Waterboy
After running a 4.33, verting over 40" and benching 225- 24 times, what is he going to have to do for the Vince lovers to realize that Bush is the best thing for the Texans?
DRAFT BUSH NOW!!!!!!!!!:yahoo:
 
wrestler4life said:
After running a 4.33, verting over 40" and benching 225- 24 times, what is he going to have to do for the Vince lovers to realize that Bush is the best thing for the Texans?
DRAFT BUSH NOW!!!!!!!!!:yahoo:
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Its never been about not wanting Bush, it's more about not wanting David Carr (your other boy from California). At least from my perspective that is.
 
His strength is a definite bonus. Oh and he officially weighed in at 202 pounds. I loved the quote that when he took off his shirt, some people thought he was wearing body armor. hahaha he'll just explode into defenders
 
kbourda said:
Its never been about not wanting Bush, it's more about not wanting David Carr (your other boy from California). At least from my perspective that is.
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and let's not forget it's also about wanting Vince Young (your boy from Houston) .... and as you and I both know, perspective is a very important thing ...
 
I'll say it - I'd still rather have Vince Young.

Given that Kubiak is bringing in (warning: oversimplification) a "plug and play" system for running backs, I'm just not going to put that high of a premium on a running back. I do, however, put a high premium on quarterbacks who are outstanding leaders. I don't want a quarterback who is skilled at not getting in the way of the rest of the team's success. I want one who leads in creating that success.

I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.

I have nothing against Bush. He looks like a great prospect, and I'll cheer for him to make big plays when he's in a Texans jersey next fall.

I'd prefer Vince Young. It's not like this is the first time the Texans have picked someone other than who I wanted at a given spot.

It happens.
 
These numbers are fairly irrelevant. I happen to be one of the few, apparently, that sees value in both picks. I do think the safer bet is to stick with Carr and draft Bush. But I also strongly believe that in the next 10 years Vince Young will lead an NFL team to at least one Super Bowl. I can't say the same for my confidence in Reggie, Matt Leinart or even David Carr. But if the goal is to improve this team immediately - you have to pick Bush.
 
Tulip said:
I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.
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You must be reading my mind. One of the most brilliant posts made.
 
"These numbers are fairly irrelevant. I happen to be one of the few, apparently, that sees value in both picks. I do think the safer bet is to stick with Carr and draft Bush. But I also strongly believe that in the next 10 years Vince Young will lead an NFL team to at least one Super Bowl. I can't say the same for my confidence in Reggie, Matt Leinart or even David Carr. But if the goal is to improve this team immediately - you have to pick Bush."

true. everyone in the nfl and college has similar numbers:ok:
 
Tulip said:
I'll say it - I'd still rather have Vince Young.

Given that Kubiak is bringing in (warning: oversimplification) a "plug and play" system for running backs, I'm just not going to put that high of a premium on a running back. I do, however, put a high premium on quarterbacks who are outstanding leaders. I don't want a quarterback who is skilled at not getting in the way of the rest of the team's success. I want one who leads in creating that success.

I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.

I have nothing against Bush. He looks like a great prospect, and I'll cheer for him to make big plays when he's in a Texans jersey next fall.

I'd prefer Vince Young. It's not like this is the first time the Texans have picked someone other than who I wanted at a given spot.

It happens.
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Excellent post.
 
Obviously this thread was made for me, so i'll bite.

I dont want reggie bush now. Didnt want him during the whole "bush bowl" fiasco, didnt want him pre rose bowl, dont want him post rosebowl. Reasonable men can agree to differ, and I want Vince. You don't know whats best for the Texans. Neither do i.You know why? Because you dont know ANYTHING that these prospects are going to do in the NFL. No clue. We can speculate, but here is my question to all of the people who think Vince Young would be such a horrible pick.

If Vince Young was really such a horrible player, and if he really was just a "homer" pick, then why do most mock drafts have him going anywhere from 1-10 in the nfl draft? Obviously people believe he can be successfull in the nfl. Also, people routinely say he will have to sit for 2-3 years. You dont know that...what if there is an injury to Carr and he is pressed into service immediately? More so than that, what if he has a rothlisberger-esque first season, and goes 14-0 as a starter? what then.....rookie QB's can suceed. Vince could suceed in Houston

My final point. We dont NEED reggie bush. Nobody can say that he is a need based pick. So saying we dont need vince young isnt a good counter arguement. We dont NEED either of them. Its a luxury pick. Then it comes down to who you think is better. Some think Vince, some think Bush. It doesnt matter which conviction you have, just dont bash others for having it.
 
Tulip said:
I'll say it - I'd still rather have Vince Young.

Given that Kubiak is bringing in (warning: oversimplification) a "plug and play" system for running backs, I'm just not going to put that high of a premium on a running back. I do, however, put a high premium on quarterbacks who are outstanding leaders. I don't want a quarterback who is skilled at not getting in the way of the rest of the team's success. I want one who leads in creating that success.

I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.

I have nothing against Bush. He looks like a great prospect, and I'll cheer for him to make big plays when he's in a Texans jersey next fall.

I'd prefer Vince Young. It's not like this is the first time the Texans have picked someone other than who I wanted at a given spot.

It happens.
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I can't give you any more rep points...... says I've got to spread them around. But I believe this is a very good post.

This "hypocrisy" has been around long before Vince declared himself eligible for the draft. When a team goes 2-14, then get's all giddy about drafting a running back, when the running game is the only good thing you've got going for you...... they gripe & whine about our QB not getting enough time to do what he needs to do, so to help, they want to draft a running back. Then blame the F.O. for not doing what they promised to do.

Yet, talk about drafting a QB........ and it doesn't make sense. We already have a #1 pick at QB...

History shows running backs get hurt early in their careers...... Ours has put up some very nice stats despite the injuries...... but he's "injury prone"

The offensive line has been tweaked, rearranged, shuffled, and what not. we've added players, we've removed players. Every year, something is done to the offensive line.......... but just try to say that our QB is "sack prone"

but to answer your question...... I want Bush on our team. I think we'd have a real offensive powerhouse. But not at the expense of Vince Young. I'm in this for the long haul, and I think Vince will improve our team more, over the long term.

Matt........ He was probably the best QB in the draft before Vince declared. He may have been a legit #1 last year, or the year before..... most likely in 2002. But IMHO, anyone who drafts Matt while Vince is on the board may be looking for a job in the not to distant future. Yeah, thinking like that may be exactly why I'm not a pro NFL scout................. what's your excuse??

Edit:My rant about hypocrisy is in response to a few posts that do not appear to be here anymore.
 
NO is looking to trade down.
All the press points to RB.
Whether or not I like it, thats what we're doing I'm almost positive.
 
Bob Allen and John McClain have already said that the Texans WILL be drafting Reggie Bush. Unless some other team grossly overpays for the #1 pick I think this debate is over.
 
I think we are going to pick Bush and I will be happy with that -- he is an elite player. If the Texans decide to go with VY i'll be happy as well, because clearly the staff will have seen something that many are missing. More than likely drafting VY would indicate Carr is a bigger liability than the Texans have let on.

I won't be happy if we trade down -- the #1pick this year is a rare opportunity to have one of two elite players in the draft. I understand the logic of trading down, but the gambler in me wants to take a shot at one of the big names.
 
thunderkyss said:
I can't give you any more rep points...... says I've got to spread them around. But I believe this is a very good post.

This "hypocrisy" has been around long before Vince declared himself eligible for the draft. When a team goes 2-14, then get's all giddy about drafting a running back, when the running game is the only good thing you've got going for you...... they gripe & whine about our QB not getting enough time to do what he needs to do, so to help, they want to draft a running back. Then blame the F.O. for not doing what they promised to do.
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TK this is a straight forward response not a RB post. However it does involve him. At USC they ran a form of the Zone Blocking Scheme, which helps him in this offense,also it has been said that he is very good at picking up the blitz,and blocking them out. That has been a weakness in every running back that we have.I am a RB supporter but in no way would I be depressed if we got VY. I think in the running back department if the FO goes that way you get a potential gamebreaker with good blocking skills, and good hands that can only compliment DD's play. I believe they could be the best RB duo in the NFL this year as all around contributors. We will just have to wait and see.
 
Fact: You can't play 2 QB's on the field at the same time (you can, but it makes no sense).
Fact: You can play 2 RB's on the field at the same time.
Fact: The Texans want to win now
Fact: Carr just signed a huge extention that will kill the cap if we cut or trade him
Fact: DD makes big $$, but see fact 2

Both picks are very athletic, but I am not sold on VY as a NFL QB. Bush's game correlates to the NFL and he was succesful in college in all the things he will be asked to do in the NFL, and has done them at a high level for the last 2-3 years. VY has not been very effective passing the ball until this year. Yes, he makes plays with his legs, but I don't think you can count on that in the NFL (see Michael Vick, see Cunningham). So it comes down to his arm which he has never sat in the pocket and beaten a good team with just his arm. That is what will have to happen in the NFL, opposing defenses will not be scared of his 4.57 scrambling ability. They have seen it before in a QB that can run a sub 4.4 (Vick). I feel for where they are right now in ability and what they can offer a team immediatly, Bush is the safer pick and the risk/reward ratio is a lot closer with him with the ceiling being just as high as with VY. I pick Bush easily.
 
I just saw Bob Allen's report on YouTube where Reggie says he'll meet with the Texans on Thursday. I bet they start working on a contract...

**edit**
Just saw the other thread about it. Seems like a foregone conclusion now.
 
Marginal utility folks. We're gonna pay 50+ million to improve our strongest position, where we've already got a ton of money commited. RB is a freak, but there are questions. Yes, he is multidimensional. Do we need him? Not really, and certainly not at that price. VY isn't a need pick, but we have a lot more issues at his position, where the play has not been adequate.
 
swtbound07 said:
If Vince Young was really such a horrible player, and if he really was just a "homer" pick, then why do most mock drafts have him going anywhere from 1-10 in the nfl draft?
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There are only a couple of people saying VY is going to be a bust or that Bush will be a bust. The great majority of folks on either side of the VY/Bush debate see talent and potential in both but more in one or the other or like kbourda & Tulip cast there vote VY's way out of dislike for Carr. That said, there is an obvious homer quality to the debate or Leinart would be a favorite of at least a few people and he is never even discussed--as you say, the vast majority of mock drafts have Leinart as the top QB.

More so than that, what if he has a rothlisberger-esque first season, and goes 14-0 as a starter?
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Big Ben didn't have a Big Ben-esque season--he had a very good season jumping into the QB spot on a Super Bowl quality team. In other words he had the 21 other guys around him that Tulip finds silly for Carr to need. But hey, I am sure Big Ben would have found a way to lift the 31st ranked D and make them contenders. It isn't about "giving Carr" 21 guys to succeed, it is about fielding a solid team--something the Texans did not do with the exception of a running game last year. Even the running game wasn't as solid as people act like it was. The Texans were 15th in total rushing yds, but 308 of those yds came from Carr--take those out and the Texans fall to the 24th spot.
 
Well, the NFL proves that not only do you need a good #1 & #2 at QB, but also at RB.

I can see the thinking on the Texans part there.

Before FA started, I was in the DE or OL help......they addressed that during FA....even the WR dept.

What's left...CB? So either the Texans draft Bush, or they trade down and get a CB. Theory "A" seems to be the logical way to go.


BTW, Young led a bunch of college kids, not NFL pros. Different level with more distractions once he gets the $$$$ and buys his mom a house and has all of his boys in his pockets. He has already proven to be a punk by his actions towards the public....now his head is getting bigger, so he might be the next TO!

Lead a team to the SB at least once in his next 10 years?? LMAO! I'm sure they said that about Marino after his 2nd yr in the NFL.....and he was a better QB than Vince Young is an athlete!

He will need to be on a team that has a talented defense to overcome the numerous bone-head rookie mistakes he will make as a 6 yr vet (if he lasts that long)!! Next Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Joey Harrington...etc...etc...etc!
 
Can anyone name a good running back Duo that has lasted more than 3 years?? The only one I can think of is WD40, but that was actually supplemented with other halfbacks, while Tampa was trying to make up their mind what they were going to do.

My point is, no one has two franchise backs........ I think DD is ours, and it would be crappy of the Houston Texans as an organization to replace him. Yeah they can play together...... it just doesn't happen that way.

this man's given us 125%, it's wrong, IMHO, to even look at another back. How many running backs have we had so far?? How many of them have performed like DD has for us?? We've found our franchise RunningBack, let's start looking for the QB.

& before we go off on the we haven't been fair to David Carr........ let me first say, that I agree with you. We haven't given him a fair opportunity to win some games. We haven't protected him as well as we should. Yes, there were times when he didn't have a chance to take a three step drop... Still, IMHO, he could have played better.
 
infantrycak said:
There are only a couple of people saying VY is going to be a bust or that Bush will be a bust. The great majority of folks on either side of the VY/Bush debate see talent and potential in both but more in one or the other or like kbourda & Tulip cast there vote VY's way out of dislike for Carr. That said, there is an obvious homer quality to the debate or Leinart would be a favorite of at least a few people and he is never even discussed--as you say, the vast majority of mock drafts have Leinart as the top QB.



Big Ben didn't have a Big Ben-esque season--he had a very good season jumping into the QB spot on a Super Bowl quality team. In other words he had the 21 other guys around him that Tulip finds silly for Carr to need. But hey, I am sure Big Ben would have found a way to lift the 31st ranked D and make them contenders. It isn't about "giving Carr" 21 guys to succeed, it is about fielding a solid team--something the Texans did not do with the exception of a running game last year. Even the running game wasn't as solid as people act like it was. The Texans were 15th in total rushing yds, but 308 of those yds came from Carr--take those out and the Texans fall to the 24th spot.
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True about Big ben, but he did exhibit fantastic poise and playmaking abilities when called upon. VY could manage games and be a late game playmaker like Big Ben right off the bat. Concerning the rushing game, we trailed all season, so our output was impressive. We were 9th in yards per carry, with teams all .500 or above ahead of us. Carr did contribute to the rushing attack, but 68 sacks, 17 fumbles, and only 1 td kind of washes it out.
 
Dr. Toro said:
Marginal utility folks. We're gonna pay 50+ million to improve our strongest position, where we've already got a ton of money commited. RB is a freak, but there are questions. Yes, he is multidimensional. Do we need him? Not really, and certainly not at that price. VY isn't a need pick, but we have a lot more issues at his position, where the play has not been adequate.
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I guess my basic problem with all the "get rid of Carr crowd" is simply this:

Kubiak, an ex quarterback, an ex quarteback coach, ex offensive coordinator, and now head coach, is basing the entire success of continuing in that capasity with the Texans on Carr. If he were not convinced that David Carr is the quarterback that can win with the Texans, why wouldn't he go another route. He could have his choice of any quarterback coming out this year at the #1 position. Plus, he would have an excuse if one of them did not prove to be a winner. After all, you never know for sure with a draft pick. Instead, he is placing his whole existance upon his belief that Carr can do the job. Let me ask you.... if it were your job, your career, would you "gamble" on Carr if you had any concerns? Or, would you take the safe route and pick a new guy, because even if the new guy fails, you've got an excuse. My brain and my knowledge of self survival points to Kubiak having confidence in Carr.
Am I missing the boat here?:confused:
 
Dr. Toro said:
CWe were 9th in yards per carry, with teams all .500 or above ahead of us.
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Not so fast. Carr was the rushing leader on ypc as well. Take his yards and attempts out and the ypa drops to 3.9 ypc which puts the Texans in a tie for 16th to 19th.

FYI--only Vick, Carr, Brooks and McNair started 10+ games and averaged more ypa than the regular rushing game.

Carr did contribute to the rushing attack, but 68 sacks, 17 fumbles, and only 1 td kind of washes it out.
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All of this is irrelevant to the original point--the Texans' rushing game is not as strong as some would portray. QB rushing was unplanned for 90% of the time and shouldn't be included in consideration of how good was the Texans' planned rushing attack.

Sacks don't count in the rushing game--wrong discussion. 17 fumbles?--yeah, that doesn't look biased listing that rather than the 6 fumbles lost.
 
Tejaspro said:
I guess my basic problem with all the "get rid of Carr crowd" is simply this:

Kubiak, an ex quarterback, an ex quarteback coach, ex offensive coordinator, and now head coach, is basing the entire success of continuing in that capasity with the Texans on Carr. If he were not convinced that David Carr is the quarterback that can win with the Texans, why wouldn't he go another route. He could have his choice of any quarterback coming out this year at the #1 position. Plus, he would have an excuse if one of them did not prove to be a winner. After all, you never know for sure with a draft pick. Instead, he is placing his whole existance upon his belief that Carr can do the job. Let me ask you.... if it were your job, your career, would you "gamble" on Carr if you had any concerns? Or, would you take the safe route and pick a new guy, because even if the new guy fails, you've got an excuse. My brain and my knowledge of self survival points to Kubiak having confidence in Carr.
Am I missing the boat here?:confused:
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If that is the decision Kubiak makes...... we don't know yet. The decision to pick Bush, was made before GK left Denver......... now, for all we know he may just be following Party lines...... This team has done very well, to position itself for the draft, where we don't need anything(more or less) that #1 pick is a luxury pick, we can pick who we want, and not really hurt our team. The positions we need to fill, can be filled much lower with our existing picks......

Extending Carr's contract, and signing SageR..., makes it difficult to think we will do anything with that pick other than draft Reggie Bush.

But, if I were a QB coach, getting ready to paint my master piece, I'd want to start with a raw Vince Young, rather than a David Carr, that has to be broken down, and then rebuilt.
 
infantrycak said:
Not so fast. Carr was the rushing leader on ypc as well. Take his yards and attempts out and the ypa drops to 3.9 ypc which puts the Texans in a tie for 16th to 19th.



All of this is irrelevant to the original point--the Texans' rushing game is not as strong as some would portray. QB rushing was an unplanned for 90% of the time and shouldn't be included in consideration of how good was the Texans' planned rushing attack.

Sacks don't count in the rushing game--wrong discussion. 17 fumbles?--yeah, that doesn't look biased listing that rather than the 6 fumbles lost.
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I am biased, everything I have seen tells me Carr has been bad. Sacks are plays where the QB doesn't throw the ball, just like the scrambles. In Carr's case, all those unplanned plays accounted for -116 yards, there were 124 such plays. Vick is the only guy in his ballpark with respect to this. What i'm saying is the pocket presence is the big issue here, 124 out of 547 passing plays the ball didn't get thrown. Every 4.5 passing plays he runs or is sacked, that's not all line play. 15 total tds, 17 total turnovers.

*I'll add that the big knock on Carr coming out of Fresno was that he held the ball too long and took a disproportionate number of sacks. The numbers showed it then and do now.
 
Bullpen Drew said:
I am totally impressed by Bush...

Young wasn't as impressive as Bush or Leinart.
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Other than Wonderlic scores, Leinart did measurably worse than Vince in his pro day. He didn't run the 40. Had a decent veritical (completely irrelevant) and threw many balls off the mark. He basically excused the poor performance as nervousness. Not sure, but I'm thinking cool under pressure would be an important trait of your top QBs. Vince is the walking definition of cool under pressure. His 40 time was slow (still fast for a QB), but it's not something he planned on even doing until he got goated into it by his teammates. Everyone knows he's fast.

Basically if you had to compare pro days, then Bush clearly wins. But Young was measurably better than Leinart in his accuracy and obviously has as much if not more arm strength (Lienart described as adequate arm strength vs. the superlatives that came out about Vince's arm strength after his pro day).

Not that it really matters - as I stated correctly before. These times/leaps/etc are a fairly small part of the ultimate evaluation. Individual private workouts are MUCH more important for these top guys. We have no idea how those are going.
 
thunderkyss said:
If that is the decision Kubiak makes...... we don't know yet. The decision to pick Bush, was made before GK left Denver......... now, for all we know he may just be following Party lines...... This team has done very well, to position itself for the draft, where we don't need anything(more or less) that #1 pick is a luxury pick, we can pick who we want, and not really hurt our team. The positions we need to fill, can be filled much lower with our existing picks......

Extending Carr's contract, and signing SageR..., makes it difficult to think we will do anything with that pick other than draft Reggie Bush.

But, if I were a QB coach, getting ready to paint my master piece, I'd want to start with a raw Vince Young, rather than a David Carr, that has to be broken down, and then rebuilt.
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"The decision to pick Bush, was made before GK left Denver"??? How do you know this? Who made this decision? If I understand this logic correctly, you are saying that someone? (Either McNair, Casserly? McClain? Justice? Who?) went to Kubiak and said, "come here and coach but we are picking your players, and you will just have to not only live with it, but also lie about it to everyone that asks". Let me ask you.... would you take the job under those circumstances?

And just another little question.... how did Kubiak (and any of those that had already chosen Bush) know they were going to get all those players? They didn't know they were even getting Sherman (or, maybe they did, and had already got Sherman to lie about it too) who helped to get Flannagan. And what about all those other players that put us in this position? I'm sorry, it just doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny, does it.

And, if "you were the QB coach, and wanted Vince Young", why would you take to job....just to set yourself up for disappointment and failure? Maybe I just don't understand your logic. Please feel free to enlighten me.:confused: :confused:
 
MikeMc said:
He will need to be on a team that has a talented defense to overcome the numerous bone-head rookie mistakes he will make as a 6 yr vet (if he lasts that long)!! Next Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Joey Harrington...etc...etc...etc!
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You left off David Carr.
 
swtbound07 said:
Reasonable men can agree to differ, and I want Vince. You don't know whats best for the Texans. Neither do i.You know why? Because you dont know ANYTHING that these prospects are going to do in the NFL. No clue. We can speculate, but here is my question to all of the people who think Vince Young would be such a horrible pick.
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This just seems funny because it seems like this paragraph could be taken straight out of a discussion about God with NFL jargon subbed in a few places.

:stirpot:
 
Dr. Toro said:
I am biased, everything I have seen tells me Carr has been bad. Sacks are plays where the QB doesn't throw the ball, just like the scrambles. In Carr's case, all those unplanned plays accounted for -116 yards, there were 124 such plays. Vick is the only guy in his ballpark with respect to this. What i'm saying is the pocket presence is the big issue here, 124 out of 547 passing plays the ball didn't get thrown. Every 4.5 passing plays he runs or is sacked, that's not all line play. 15 total tds, 17 total turnovers.

*I'll add that the big knock on Carr coming out of Fresno was that he held the ball too long and took a disproportionate number of sacks. The numbers showed it then and do now.
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For all this s*it being said about Carr's sacks. I rather him take 4 sacks in a row the make the dumb decisions young QB's make and throw 4 INTs in a row. Pointblank!
 
MasterC25 said:
For all this s*it being said about Carr's sacks. I rather him take 4 sacks in a row the make the dumb decisions young QB's make and throw 4 INTs in a row. Pointblank!
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with davey, you get both both. Lucky you.
 
swtbound07 said:
with davey, you get both both. Lucky you.
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Carr hasnt had a decent O-line since the inaugural season... even then is was nothing special. Capers overlooked the problem. I believe Carr will benefit in the future from having dealt with the negligence. But on the other hand, the experience that a rookie normally gains at QB was not fully experienced by Carr, since he ended up having nothing to work with. We have not seen the last of Carr.
 
swtbound07 said:
with davey, you get both both. Lucky you.
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Nice hating with no basis in fact. Carr has had more TD's than INT's and over 60% completions each of the last two years.
 
If Bush were to fall to the Arizona Cardinals , they after signing E James and having Larry Fitzgerald would take him in a NY minute . DD is an OK back thats it , DC do not stay up late worrying about DD .
 
swtbound07 said:
If Vince Young was really such a horrible player, and if he really was just a "homer" pick, then why do most mock drafts have him going anywhere from 1-10 in the nfl draft? We dont NEED reggie bush. Nobody can say that he is a need based pick. So saying we dont need vince young isnt a good counter arguement. We dont NEED either of them. Its a luxury pick. Then it comes down to who you think is better. Some think Vince, some think Bush. It doesnt matter which conviction you have, just dont bash others for having it.
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SWT, I love your conviction and passion for this team and VY. Every mock draft and ranking I have seen has Bush at number 1 and neither of us is suffering from any man-love syndromes, just different opinions. But you brought a lot of heat on yourself from the start with the Reggie Bust signature. Peace.
 
The only visits that I have heard about are Reggie and Vince. And Reggie is coming here to meet with the staff, do contract negotiations, and look at houses.
 
Know one wants the rb, unless you are a cardinal and mustard phantom......

US REAL TEXANS WOULD NEVER ! EVER! .....want the rib anywhere near our BURNT ORANGE STATE!
MONARCH
 
MONARCH said:
Know one wants the rb, unless you are a cardinal and mustard phantom......

US REAL TEXANS WOULD NEVER ! EVER! .....want the rib anywhere near our BURNT ORANGE STATE!
MONARCH
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long day MONARCH? only 2 lines? c'mon buck up ....
 
infantrycak said:
The great majority of folks on either side of the VY/Bush debate see talent and potential in both but more in one or the other or like kbourda & Tulip cast there vote VY's way out of dislike for Carr.
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Wait on sec. I never said I didn't like Carr. I just don't like his production at the QB position. I dislike the Cowboys!
 
I don't think Ferguson is worth the #1 pick and I think we are acting as if we aren't trading down. That's most likely why we don't have a meeting with him yet or we have yet to set one up yet.
 
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