Which QB had a better college career?

[thunderkyss]

I'd say based on stats, Carr had a better college career.

But based on results, Young had a better career.

I'm not saying that Young is "better" or "worse", but champsionships are why they play the game.

It's such a subjective argument, though, because there are no unanimously agreed upon standards to measure "better career". It's all in the eyes of the opinion maker.

at one time, I thought I was good enough to play football beyound the highschool level..... colleges didn't believe so.

My main reasons for going on, and playing college ball, were:

1: Pay for my edumacation
2: a shot at a pro Career
3: Win a National Championship

heisman..... unitas..... other vague awards weren't on that list.

So in my opinion, since Vince accomplished three of those three points, and Carr only accomplished 2, I'd say Vince had the better career.

However if they were both in the same draft, I gaurantee they would have gone 1 & 2, most likely Carr going first, because he is more of a traditional QB.......

So would I. I voted for Vince. But...using a championship as the ONLY reason is bogus imo. Who had a better carreer: Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?

I did think about this also, before I voted..... if You were to ask a fan who they would rather have on their team at the epitome of their respective careers, and without a doubt Marino would be the pick.

But put your self in their shoes....... which one believes he still has something to prove?? Dilfer will never sniff the HOF..... but he was the starting QB of a SuperBowl Championship team...

Completely understand this point of view, but I have a hard time judging IT myself and in looking at how many other people do it, IT seems far too outcome related than reasonable IMO. For example, folks point to the Rose Bowl as one of VY's crowning achievements and rightfully so. Fact is though, absent a stop by the D, Texas goes home without a trophy. IMO the different result wouldn't have reflected a bit on whether VY has IT. I just don't see it as simply as winning and losing. Some of the great leaders of all time have lost most of their battles--Rommel undoubtedly had IT--but his team was outmatched.

PS--you didn't pick between Manning and Brady.

Manning over Brady every time..... unless Brady throws for 4000 yards again. Until then Manning is the best in the league right now, and I'll build around him.

For me, I'm watching Brady, and I still can't believe what he's accomplished..... I'm a slow learner, but when I see him, I don't see great QB. I don't see field general....

I'm not saying he isn't a great QB...... he is....... it's just that he doesn't look like it.... Like I said...... if he throws for 4000 again, or 50 TDs, or win another SuperBowl, or something like that... then I'll be all forget about the why...... just know that he's going to do it again, & I will call him the best.

 

[real]

However if they were both in the same draft, I gaurantee they would have gone 1 & 2, most likely Carr going first, because he is more of a traditional QB.......

They said the same thing about Leinhart....Just depends on who is picking...And about the whole Brady, Manning thing....Thats a debate that no one is ever going to agree on....IMO, Brady is the best QB in the leauge...That is because in my mind the championship is what you play for....And I know some lesser QB's have rings, while some of the best don't, but I just think that Manning has had so much Talent around him, and so many weapons at his disposal....While TB basically works with what he has....Peyton has all the X's and O's down, but IMO he lacks the ability to come up huge in clutch situations....IMO...Peyton=Dirk...Great players Stat Wise...But I just don't think they have that unseen talent of willing their team to wins, and having their whole team feed off of their energy....

 

[thunderkyss]

They said the same thing about Leinhart....Just depends on who is picking...

I never saw enough of Lienart to think he'd go #1 in anything resembling as strong a draft as what we just had..... not even #2.

If there were no Vince..... I could see him going to Tennessee...... but I wouldn't have guessed it.

 

[jerek]

Ah, a David vs Vince thread. I actually hadn't seen one of these for a little while. Maybe I haven't been looking or maybe I willfully ignored them. Either way, my take is:

In terms of "better college career," that's really hard to say. Carr was a better statistical passer, albeit against somewhat less competitive schedules. However Vince clearly had the better offensive and defensive teammates. Vince "led" his team to the championship, though you will never convince me that Carr couldn't and wouldn't have done the same thing on that same team within that same season. As much as college defenses feared Vince Young's legs, the upper echelon teams felt reasonably certain they could contain his arm, and in many cases they did. For that matter, you will never convince me that Vince Young would have won a national championship at Fresno within Carr's senior year construct.

Team context is more influential in football than perhaps any other sport, and I don't understand how ostensibly rational, thinking people on this board can post up and down to the contrary; claiming that Vince is superior because "he" won, or that Carr is superior "because he had better numbers." Carr certainly had "it" back in college as well. You have to view the entire context. Sure, we could devise ranking systems (QB rating, for instance) that would attempt to incorporate it all but even these are not going to tell the entire story.

I went ahead and voted Carr just because I like the guy better, but purely in terms of the question who had the better college career, I'd be hard pressed to choose. Certainly Vince Young's was the more "epic" and the more winning IIRC, and he is in many senses the superior raw athlete, so from that standpoint you could easily say Vince Young. However Carr was and remains the better passer with the better arm and superior numbers, so in my case I would probably choose not to answer the question and leave it at that. They both had great careers and yes, VY brought one home for Texas, but you can make a strong case for both quarterbacks and in the end it forever remains a question of subjective opinion, not objective fact.

 

[jerek]

I never saw enough of Lienart to think he'd go #1 in anything resembling as strong a draft as what we just had..... not even #2.

If there were no Vince..... I could see him going to Tennessee...... but I wouldn't have guessed it.

I thought Leinart was going #3, honestly. I would be interested to know if VY was the unanimous FO decision or if that came down from Bud or someone else on high. I suspect Chow will be headed to Arizona when his contract is up. It's not that Leinart is necessarily the superior product, but IMO he is far more NFL-ready and will probably be a better rated passer throughout his NFL career. I project him to be a Tom Brady-ish player -- slow, steady, and unspectacular -- with Vince certainly representing more highlight material but also more unknowns and longer development.

 

[infantrycak]

I thought Leinart was going #3, honestly. I would be interested to know if VY was the unanimous FO decision or if that came down from Bud or someone else on high.

Rumor reports from pundits say the coaches wanted Lienart and Bud Adams wanted Young--FWIW.

 

[real]

Ok...We are talking about Careers, not who is the better QB....I don't understand how it's not V.Young....It's like Manning and Brady...Who's had the better Career out of those two??? IMO, Brady...Peyton may be more skilled, and puts up more numbers...But i just think Brady's Career has been better...

 

[jerek]

Rumor reports from pundits say the coaches wanted Lienart and Bud Adams wanted Young--FWIW.

That's what I heard too, though secondhand so I can't feel too certain about it. I've heard similar rumor that Chow wants out when his contract is up and is eyeing Arizona. Either way it would make sense to me that Chow would want his star quarterback, but it's one of those things we'll never know for now.

 

[jerek]

Ok...We are talking about Careers, not who is the better QB....I don't understand how it's not V.Young....It's like Manning and Brady...Who's had the better Career out of those two??? IMO, Brady...Peyton may be more skilled, and puts up more numbers...But i just think Brady's Career has been better...

It's a question of evaluation criteria ... sure, Marino's career didn't compare to, heck, Brad Johnson if you want to evaluate strictly on count Super Bowl rings. Yet I and most logical people would tell you that Marino's was easily the better career. This is an obvious if not hyperbolic example but I think it makes my point. The answer to the question depends on your methods for evalutation.

 

[thunderkyss]

That's what I heard too, though secondhand so I can't feel too certain about it. I've heard similar rumor that Chow wants out when his contract is up and is eyeing Arizona. Either way it would make sense to me that Chow would want his star quarterback, but it's one of those things we'll never know for now.

I can understand a player wanting to be where his old coach is, but I can't imagine a coach wanting to go where his player is.

Chow should be eyeballing a headcoaching job when his Tennessee contract is up, may very well be in Tennessee.....

but if he wants to go to Arizona because Lienart is there, I'd have to question the relationship.

 

[jerek]

I can understand a player wanting to be where his old coach is, but I can't imagine a coach wanting to go where his player is.

Chow should be eyeballing a headcoaching job when his Tennessee contract is up, may very well be in Tennessee.....

but if he wants to go to Arizona because Lienart is there, I'd have to question the relationship.

Rumor about rumor is a whole lot of speculatin', but FWIW, Arizona is an OC's dream. They have a good veteran QB, a rookie QB that virtually nobody projected to slide as far as he did, three very good young receivers, a pretty good O-line, and now the Edge. In this scenario, Leinart is the icing on the cake.

Again not sure and none of this is coming from my handful of ultra-reliable sources, so take with a grain of salt.

 

[real]

Don't they have Mercedes Lewis Too ?

 

[thunderkyss]

It's a question of evaluation criteria ... sure, Marino's career didn't compare to, heck, Brad Johnson if you want to evaluate strictly on count Super Bowl rings. Yet I and most logical people would tell you that Marino's was easily the better career. This is an obvious if not hyperbolic example but I think it makes my point. The answer to the question depends on your methods for evalutation.

I don't know...... Marino was without a doubt a better QB... and you could argue a more successful career....

But you'd have to prove that his ultimate goal was something other than winning the SuperBowl, to say he had the better career.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

If you were to ask David Carr , if you could do it again would you want your career at Fresno State or Vince's at Texas ? I bet Carr takes the Texas gig . I would make the same case with Manning and Brady . Manning would rather have Brady's career .

 

[infantrycak]

If you were to ask David Carr , if you could do it again would you want your career at Fresno State or Vince's at Texas ? I bet Carr takes the Texas gig . I would make the same case with Manning and Brady . Manning would rather have Brady's career .

Well that's fine when you pick a three time SB winner to trade with. I'd bet Manning wouldn't trade his career with Trent Dilfer's just because Trent has a ring.

 

[Huge]

What would be the better game:
A Vince Young led Fresno State team vs. a David Carr led Texas Longhorn team

or

A David Carr led Fresno State team vs. a Vince Young led Texas Longhorn team

I wouldn't pick the Young/Fresno team to win but I'd be willing to bet they'd put up a better fight.

 

[TexansLucky13]

It is an interesting question when comparing QBs by SB rings vs. career stats.

Obviously Peyton is almost identical in stats and situation Marino. Consistently putting up league-leading numbers, breaking league records and having a lot of success in the regular season. They also relate closely in post-season record.... where Marino led the Dolphins to the playoffs year after year but never managed to win a SB (got there in 84 but the 49ers destroyed them).

Brady, on the other hand, could be related to Terry Bradshaw. An above-average QB, but not in the same league as Marino when it came to record setting and league leading stats. On the other hand, Bradshaw had an extremely powerful team with the Steelers back in the 70's, and led them to 3 SB wins.

So who do you think was a better QB? Marino or Bradshaw? Personally I think Marino was a better QB when you look at stats and consistent performance. On the other hand, Bradshaw had the leadership qualities that set his team on a road to success. So in the end it comes down to personal preference.... would you rather be remembered for being a record breaker, or a guy who led one of the greatest dynasties of NFL history? I prefer the latter.

Both Bradshaw and Marino are in the Hall of Fame and I am convinced that both Manning and Brady will be as well.

 

[TwinSisters]

That's what I heard too, though secondhand so I can't feel too certain about it. I've heard similar rumor that Chow wants out when his contract is up and is eyeing Arizona. Either way it would make sense to me that Chow would want his star quarterback, but it's one of those things we'll never know for now.

This is false. Adams did not tell them to pick Young. Adams said it. Reese said it.

http://www.titansradio.com/cgi-bin/blurb_view.cgi?blurb=draft8900

Though he said he had never seen a quarterback like Young, Adams said he did not instruct General Manager Floyd Reese and Head Coach Jeff Fisher to take the quarterback.

''I know Norm Chow naturally favored Matt because he coached him,'' Adams said. ''But he realizes that in the pro ranks things will be different. And if you pinned him down, I think he knows in five or six years they'll be talking about Vince a lot more.''

Fisher and Chow are USC mates. It's not so much about being from USC, it's more about they knew Leinert better thus he was less of a risk. When it came down to the combines, interviews, film review, and strategy sessions... Reese tipped for Young.

Adams said to take a QB. He did not say take Vincent.

 

[infantrycak]

This is false. Adams did not tell them to pick Young. Adams said it. Reese said it.

http://www.titansradio.com/cgi-bin/blurb_view.cgi?blurb=draft8900

Fisher and Chow are USC mates. It's not so much about being from USC, it's more about they knew Leinert better thus he was less of a risk. When it came down to the combines, interviews, film review, and strategy sessions... Reese tipped for Young.

Adams said to take a QB. He did not say take Vincent.

Well the original statement was the coaches (didn't say GM) preferred Leinart to Young. Your clip shows that at least with respect to Chow, Bud has verified that was in fact the case. It doesn't say one way or the other about Fisher.

Here is an example of the media reports:

Leinart, however, was the choice of Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher and GM Floyd Reese. But Titans owner Bud Adams told his coach and personnel man to draft Texas quarterback Vince Young even though Leinart was rated higher on the final Tennessee draft board. Adams, who moved his team from Houston to Nashville in 1997, wanted Young, his hometown kid.

Link

And another:

Pick proves the old adage that he who has the gold. Coaches Jeff Fisher reportedly preferred USC's Matt Leinart and his style and polish, however, ownership, along with G.M. Floyd Reese wanted the Longhorns' Young and his incredible athleticism. The sub-plot to the pick of course is what happens to Leinart.

Link

And another:

Young, strangely enough, may end up costing Jeff Fisher his job in Tennessee. Fisher is in the final year of his contract (with an option for 2007), but owner Adams is not a patient man. That's part of the reason Fisher reportedly preferred Leinart, who would give the Titans a better shot at winning now if inserted as the starter. Young will need a year or two of development, but if Adams forces him into the lineup-and there is no mistaking who ultimately calls the shots in Tennessee-it may mean another single-digit win season for the Titans, and Fisher may end up taking the fall.

Link

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Well that's fine when you pick a three time SB winner to trade with. I'd bet Manning wouldn't trade his career with Trent Dilfer's just because Trent has a ring.

The question is about QBs that are in the same conversation . We were comparing Carr to VY and Manning to Brady . The tie breaker would be if they could trade ... in my opinion .

 

[TwinSisters]

Well the original statement was the coaches (didn't say GM) preferred Leinart to Young. Your clip shows that at least with respect to Chow, Bud has verified that was in fact the case. It doesn't say one way or the other about Fisher.

Fisher wanted Leinert also. But I know how the Oilers worked with Adams and Reese/Herzeg/Holovak from Phillips and Glanville. Reese pulls the trigger on who they select. It is not to say the coaches don't matter, it is to say Reese makes the calls and has made the calls for the past 10-15 years. That's how Adams works. He likes the conventional GM, not the Coach/GM. ( for whatever reason, I have no idea )
---

you are linking up blogs from hacks. I am telling you what Adams said and what Reese has said. You could say that Adams told Reese to select Young off the record, but that is not what they said.

 

[infantrycak]

Fisher wanted Leinert also. But I know how the Oilers worked with Adams and Reese/Herzeg/Holovak from Phillips and Glanville. Reese pulls the trigger on who they select. It is not to say the coaches don't matter, it is to say Reese makes the calls and has made the calls for the past 10-15 years. That's how Adams works. He likes the conventional GM, not the Coach/GM. ( for whatever reason, I have no idea )
---

you are linking up blogs from hacks. I am telling you what Adams said and what Reese has said. You could say that Adams told Reese to select Young off the record, but that is not what they said.

So what has been your point in going thru all this? Here was the original statement:

Rumor reports from pundits say the coaches wanted Lienart and Bud Adams wanted Young--FWIW.

You have admitted both Fisher and Chow wanted Leinart. Are you denying Adams wanted Young?--or that Reese would know Adams' preference and take it into consideration even if it wasn't an instruction? I don't care if Reese was the lone gunman or not--the point was the coaches wanted Leinart.

 

[infantrycak]

The question is about QBs that are in the same conversation . We were comparing Carr to VY and Manning to Brady . The tie breaker would be if they could trade ... in my opinion .

You're proving my point. A SB ring isn't the be all, end all--Dilfer isn't even in the conversation although he has one.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

You're proving my point. A SB ring isn't the be all, end all--Dilfer isn't even in the conversation although he has one.

Your right but winning a championship is a tie breaker .

 

[jerek]

Your right but winning a championship is a tie breaker .

Of course. Vince is clearly superior. How could we have missed it?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Of course. Vince is clearly superior. How could we have missed it?

I think Vince was a better college player . The real question is who was the better pro prospect coming out of college ?

 

[jerek]

I think Vince was a better college player . The real question is who was the better pro prospect coming out of college ?

Same answer. It depends. I think Leinart will have a lot of success in the next two years. A lot more than Vince Young. If that's the case, does Vince just suck, or did Matt come into a situation where he is simply much more likely to succeed: surrounded by 2 All Pro WRs, the Edge, and a good O-line, versus whoever Tennessee is fielding this season? Are Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson, and Trent Dilfer superior to pro prospect Carson Palmer?

Team matters. IMO if Carr and VY both came out this year, it would be extremely difficult to rate one as the better pro prospect. Carr still has the better arm and entered into the league as an arguably more polished quarterback, but Vince still has the greater physical upside and stands to improve the most with appropriate coaching and surrounding cast.

Tough call, either way about it. Put it this way. Given what I know and have heard of Vince Young, I would feel that drafting David Carr is the safer choice. As it is, there is a lot of support around this league for David Carr having the potential to be a great quarterback after four years of getting his ass kicked.

But, depends on my management style. Would I rather go for the guy who, conceivably, might go on to be Mike Vic with an arm? Or might he bust out, unable to handle the pressure and cerebral demands of the pro game? Or go DC, the safer, traditional pocket passer who can still get out and scramble?

I would probably go DC. If you wouldn't, cool by me and I understand that. But I tend to prefer my QBs to put up prolific passing numbers. At the end of the day, I'm still not convinced that the truly mobile QB is anything more than a novelty at this point. The ball invariably moves faster when it is thrown rather than ran. I'd rather draft a fast scatback and teach the Peyton playaction than to have a QB who can get out and run but demonstrates lesser throwing abilities. I would place a premium on guys who can throw the ball really well. That's me.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

The unfortunate thing for QBs is if their picked high its by a bad team . Matt Lienert got a hugh break when he was picked by the Cardinals . Vince is not going to have fun with the Titans , he works for a guy who will use like a side show .

I agree that I like a mobile QB who's a pass first guy ... we employ RBs to run the ball . Having said that the QB can make huge plays if he knows when to run and not just to run .

 

[Hulk75]

I think Vince was a better college player . The real question is who was the better pro prospect coming out of college ?

No, I am sorry Carr was the better College player.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

:bananasplit: I forgot about Carr in his Jr year leading his team in the Pineapple Bowl against Hayden Fox and the Screaming Eagles .

Vince Young had 9167 yards rushing and passing and accounted for 81 TDs at Texas ... I'm thinking Carr is a little short of that .

 

[TwinSisters]

So what has been your point in going thru all this? Here was the original statement:

You have admitted both Fisher and Chow wanted Leinart. Are you denying Adams wanted Young?--or that Reese would know Adams' preference and take it into consideration even if it wasn't an instruction? I don't care if Reese was the lone gunman or not--the point was the coaches wanted Leinart.

The point is this ( I guess ).

I keep seeing the story getting twisted and spun into
"Bud Adams overrides coaches to select Vincent Young"

Which in in turn implies that the guys who run the show were meddled with. Like Vincent would not have been selected #3 over Leinart had a non-football guy made the call.

This is not the case.

Floyd Reese selected the guys that made the Titans who they are. Floyd Reese is the football guy that selected Vincent over Leinart. Bud did not override anything. It's not a special case that Reese went with guys that Fisher didn't have as his number one prospect. He (Fisher) doesn't have that responsibility in the first place.
---

there are really two things that I am addressing

I would be interested to know if VY was the unanimous FO decision or if that came down from Bud or someone else on high.

and then the follow up Bud wanted Vince, Coaches wanted Leinart.

If you skip Floyd Reese.. that's spin, because the coaches don't select the players.

I am not admitting anything either!! I am not debating. I am just trying to help out.

 

[thunderkyss]

I would probably go DC. If you wouldn't, cool by me and I understand that. But I tend to prefer my QBs to put up prolific passing numbers. At the end of the day, I'm still not convinced that the truly mobile QB is anything more than a novelty at this point. The ball invariably moves faster when it is thrown rather than ran. I'd rather draft a fast scatback and teach the Peyton playaction than to have a QB who can get out and run but demonstrates lesser throwing abilities. I would place a premium on guys who can throw the ball really well. That's me.

great post....

& I would venture(kinda like a bet) to say that most teams/GMs would see it exactly like you did. But I believe most would reward Vince for playing at Texas.. & if Vince would have won the big 12 championship in 2002, that would really been saying something. & winning that NC.....

but, if he didn't (which Texas didn't) I doubt that would've been a plus.

But let's say they are graded equally, as "best Prospect" I think being from Houston, and being a very likeable, charismatic kid might sway things Vince's way. Not to mention the Gallery Furniture adds that would have circulated at the time.

Personally, from watching Vince for the last two years, and what I remember said about Carr in 2002, I'd be hard pressed to choose one or the other. I'd be happy either way..... but if our Offensive line prooved to be as pourous as it has, I think Vince would've given us a better opportunity to win.

But that's me.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Since this is college football we are talking about, all of you who selected Carr are off your rocker. The object is to win the National Champioship. Vince won it. They play to be the outstanding QB and player on the field, they both did that. You also could easily judge them by wins and losses.

The question is not potential since we are addressing college footbal only. VY was one of the greatest college players. And D-Nile is 10,000 miles east of here.

 

[thunderkyss]

and then the follow up Bud wanted Vince, Coaches wanted Leinart.

If you skip Floyd Reese.. that's spin, because the coaches don't select the players.

I am not admitting anything either!! I am not debating. I am just trying to help out.

I also find it hard to believe that Fischer thinks drafting McNair was a mistake way back when. IMHO, there were only a handful of succesful player personnel.... McNair, the biggest/best of the bunch..... along with Eddie George, Jevon Kearse, Samari Rolle, Kevin Carter(I don't know if you can really count him, since he was a no brainer before he got there)....

But I can't imagine how Fisher wouldn't see this as a chance to do it again, and extend his career.... Just like Kubiak is seen as the man for downtrodden QBs...... Fischer(sp) is the man for athletic throwing/running QBs.

 

[Hulk75]

:bananasplit: I forgot about Carr in his Jr year leading his team in the Pineapple Bowl against Hayden Fox and the Screaming Eagles .

Vince Young had 9167 yards rushing and passing and accounted for 81 TDs at Texas ... I'm thinking Carr is a little short of that .

And that Conference is SOOOO hard, you play Oklahoma 1 time and then you play???????????? O Colorado

Well one was picked #1 overall and the other did not know if he was going to play QB or WR in the NFL untill he ran into the most undisciplined defense I had ever seen on a big stage.

Carr's Career Stats
Year G-GS Att. Comp Int Yds. Pct. TD LG
2001 14-14 533 344 9 4,839 .645 46 79
2000 12-12 349 216 12 2,729 .619 23 73
1999 Redshirted
1998 7-0 41 22 1 228 .537 1 26
1997 4-0 11 5 1 53 .455 0 19
Totals 37-26 934 587 23 7,849 .628 70 79
Vince
Stat Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2003 84 143 1155 58.7 8.08 67 6 7 10 130.64
2004 148 250 1849 59.2 7.40 49 12 11 9 128.37
2005 212 325 3036 65.2 9.34 75 26 10 13 163.95
total yards-916781TDs

Not as short as you think friend, 1,318 yards extra and only 11 more touchdowns............And Vince had a whole other season under his belt, give me a break man let Carr play another year he puts up 5,000 and 50 TDs, NEXT. He also through 6 TDs in one half and they took him out, VY ever do that, I know he has a National Title YEA but with out a doubt Carr was the better QB in College, one of only 6 players in the History of College football to throw for 4,000+ and 40+ tds in one year.

I heard that CC and Kubiak had VY as the 4th rated QB comming out this year.

 

[TexansLucky13]

I heard that CC and Kubiak had VY as the 4th rated QB comming out this year.

1. Matt Leinart
2. Jay Cutler
3. ????
4. Vince Young

Maybe they felt so good about Mario that they figured he could even play QB better than Vince. Who knows.

 

[TwinSisters]

I also find it hard to believe that Fischer thinks drafting McNair was a mistake way back when. IMHO, there were only a handful of succesful player personnel.... McNair, the biggest/best of the bunch..... along with Eddie George, Jevon Kearse, Samari Rolle, Kevin Carter(I don't know if you can really count him, since he was a no brainer before he got there)....

But I can't imagine how Fisher wouldn't see this as a chance to do it again, and extend his career.... Just like Kubiak is seen as the man for downtrodden QBs...... Fischer(sp) is the man for athletic throwing/running QBs.

Hmm Fisher was a long shot coach when Reese drafted McNair. That would have been the 1995 draft, so Fisher hadn't even coached a single season yet. Reese I think was in his 1st year without a leash.

The thing about Reese is that the Titans have starters that they drafted ( and win with ). The Super Bowl squads were made up with 13 ( Reese ) drafts and 17 over all drafts. 17 out of 22 starters drafted and in the Super Bowl is fairly good. ( It's not all Reese, but the formula is working if you know what I mean )

I don't remember what Fisher wanted in the 95 draft at all... I am not even sure anybody cared because he was still a little unproven ( as a head coach ). I think everybody saw him as a Bud being a cheap... fella and just using him to save a buck or two like Red and Tice. And not too many people thought he was going to stay in the HC slot.

 

[texan279]

accomplishing nothing with a bad team doesnt make a good career

Looks like a bad career to me...

(2001) Started and played in all 14 games and was perhaps the nation’s best quarterback … had one of the most outstanding statistical seasons for a quarterback ever … became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation … exploded in the Silicon Valley Football Classic, completing 35-of-56 passes for a career-high 531 yards and four touchdowns … threw for at least 300 yards in 11 of 14 games, including 10 of the last 11 … finished third in the nation in completions with 343 … received numerous postseason awards, including Football News Offensive Player of the Year, Johnny Unitas Award, Sammy Baugh Award, WAC Offensive Player of the Year and first-team All-WAC … finished fifth in the voting for the Heisman Trophy … set Fresno State single-season records for passing yardage and touchdown passes … is the program’s career completion percentage leader (.626) … had three 400-yard passing games, including a 432-yard, six-touchdown performance in two-and-a-half quarters in the regular season finale against Utah State … was USA Today National Player of the Week after his 340-yard, four-touchdown performance in a victory against Oregon State … had a heroic effort in a victory against Colorado State, leading FS on a length-of-the-field drive with 27 seconds left in the game, which resulted in a game-tying field goal as time expired. The Bulldogs defeated CSU 25-22 … has been tabbed by ESPN’s Mel Kiper as one of the top quarterbacks to be taken in the upcoming NFL Draft … completed passes to 12 different Bulldogs, including 10 for touchdowns.

Carr's 2001 Awards

Johnny Unitas Award
Football News Offensive Player of the Year
Sammy Baugh Award
WAC Offensive Player of the Year
First-team All-WAC
CNN/SI Honorable mention All-American
Sixth player ever with at least 4,000 passing yards/40 TDs
First in the nation in passing yards (4,308) and TDs (42)
USA Today National Player of the Week (Oct. 3)

http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/carr_david00.html

 

[Hutch13]

1. Matt Leinart
2. Jay Cutler
3. ????
4. Vince Young

Maybe they felt so good about Mario that they figured he could even play QB better than Vince. Who knows.

um kellen clemens or brodie croyle?

 

[HJam72]

I heard that CC and Kubiak had VY as the 4th rated QB comming out this year.

He probably meant 4th best player.

Something like:

1) Williams/Bush
2) Bush/Williams
3) Leinart
4) Young
5) Ferguson

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Well one was picked #1 overall and the other did not know if he was going to play QB or WR in the NFL untill he ran into the most undisciplined defense I had ever seen on a big stage.

Since this is a college football discussion I am not sure why we need to be discussing draft status and since you brought in VY not being sure if he was going to play QB or WR I would like to ask when will the #1 draft pick in 2002 start playing QB rather than taking 8 million dollar welfare checks for doing the Gator every Sunday?

Fresno State fantasy camp is much like a first person shooter game - a lot of stats/points but it in the end it is pretty hollow:
Results from 2002
http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/040301aaa.html

Results from 2001:
http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/fres-m-footbl-sched-2001.html

I did not want VY here as much as I did not want Carr here in 2002 or 2006, but to even think that Carr had a better college career is asinine at best and simply shows that loyalty to Carr is the major reason why people defend him around here, because there is certainly nothing he has done in a Texans uniform to warrant the love.

 

[real]

1. Matt Leinart
2. Jay Cutler
3. ????
4. Vince Young

Maybe they felt so good about Mario that they figured he could even play QB better than Vince. Who knows.

What is your source? I don't believe that...

 

[TwinSisters]

I did not want VY here as much as I did not want Carr here in 2002 or 2006, but to even think that Carr had a better college career is asinine at best and simply shows that loyalty to Carr is the major reason why people defend him around here, because there is certainly nothing he has done in a Texans uniform to warrant the love.

Hmmm. No. I love Dave. He beat Dallas.

That doesn't take from Vince though. It's a French thing.

 

[real]

I did not want VY here as much as I did not want Carr here in 2002 or 2006, but to even think that Carr had a better college career is asinine at best and simply shows that loyalty to Carr is the major reason why people defend him around here, because there is certainly nothing he has done in a Texans uniform to warrant the love.

Interesting statement.... Maybe the people who are criticizing Carr aren't the ones who are Over the top...Maybe the ones showing all this blind loyalty are the ones who are crazy....

 

[real]

Hmmm. No. I love Dave. He beat Dallas.

That doesn't take from Vince though. It's a French thing.

So HE gets the credit for wins...Well in that case since HE beat dallas HE also lost 14 games last year...

 

[thunderkyss]

I heard that CC and Kubiak had VY as the 4th rated QB comming out this year.

I heard they had him ranked as the #1 QB, and 2nd player overall.......

Since this is a college football discussion I am not sure why we need to be discussing draft status

well now that you mention it, being the #1 draft pick, may very well be considered equal to winning a national championship.


So I could see how someone could say Carr had a better college Career.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

well now that you mention it, being the #1 draft pick, may very well be considered equal to winning a national championship.


So I could see how someone could say Carr had a better college Career.

If we are talking college career, who had more wins, conference championships, bowl wins and national champiosnhips? Being #1 is a professional variable. That is not the topic.

 

[TwinSisters]

So HE gets the credit for wins...Well in that case since HE beat dallas HE also lost 14 games last year...

Yeah but to tell you the truth. I don't really care. I want two things in the end: Beat Dallas, Make the Playoffs. I don't need to win the Super Bowl every year, but I want to feel like we had a shot every season.

If you make the playoffs going 3-13. Great. If you don't make the playoffs, then in the end, 2-14 is better. Be great, or be gone.

It's the same for Carr. Either be a great QB or hit the road. The context that I was replying to was, "What has he done to warrant my love?". That is it. He was part of the team that beat Dallas. Now he needs to start making the playoffs or looking like he is not part of the problem. The Wins and Loses don't matter to me ( that much ).

In a way I am posting here to center the Radical Extremist factions in hopes of building a more stable community.

( Don't confuse my own personal preferences for what I think you should like or anything like that though. If you like wins. Great. If you want to evaulate a QB on wins.. it's not a bad idea. I just don't care about it as much to give up the love. )
---

Vincent was a greater college QB then Dave.

 

[TwinSisters]

well now that you mention it, being the #1 draft pick, may very well be considered equal to winning a national championship.

So I could see how someone could say Carr had a better college Career.

No that just means that the NFL team that picked that season wanted a particular position. Bush, Leinart, White, Huff all had better college careers then Dave did. But none of them went #1 overall.

The player doesn't have a lot of say in what place he gets drafted. On the field he is the one doing it. He has to execute.

 

[infantrycak]

If we are talking college career, who had more wins, conference championships, bowl wins and national champiosnhips? Being #1 is a professional variable. That is not the topic.

Both topics have been raised in the thread. As for college career, I'd say you have to give the nod to VY--both had great careers at their respective teams--VY added (with the benefit of a better team--that is not a just because statement, but an it was a factor statement) two Rose Bowls and a NC.

As for pro-prospect, IMO if you ignore what you know of Carr from the past 4 years and consider the way NFL teams/scouts look at things, Carr would probably edge VY on most but not all draft boards. Look at this year--the big knocks on Leinart were all things which Carr undisputably has--predominately athleticism Leinart never thought about having. NFL teams are also much less obsessed with winning records than fans--hence Cutler being ranked above VY and/or Leinart by some teams. I believe there is still a preference in the NFL for conventional passers over "running QB's" which would reverse the college career question and have many teams ranking Carr higher. Not saying the majority would be right--just IMO that is the way the draft boards would look.