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Where Tom Brady rank all time now?
- Thread starter gtexan02
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Brady has to get it.
I think Staubach could have been if he didn't spend 6 years in the Navy but as it is, Brady is GOAT.
I think Staubach could have been if he didn't spend 6 years in the Navy but as it is, Brady is GOAT.
Brady is certainly among the greatest QBs to ever play the game but I don't think he's necessarily the greatest of all time, the best of the best.
That's just all of those media types flapping their lips, you know those guys many if not most of whom ever played pewee football ball. What Brady is categorically the QB with more achievements than any other NFL QB ever. 5 SB wins & 4 SB MVPs seals that. But is he really without question a better QB than Aron Rogers or a better QB than John Elway, or whoever ? Maybe or maybe not.
That's just all of those media types flapping their lips, you know those guys many if not most of whom ever played pewee football ball. What Brady is categorically the QB with more achievements than any other NFL QB ever. 5 SB wins & 4 SB MVPs seals that. But is he really without question a better QB than Aron Rogers or a better QB than John Elway, or whoever ? Maybe or maybe not.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
GOAT
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Manning? This has always been about Brady and Montana for me and last night Brady elevated to GOAT status.
I mean to orchestrate the biggest comeback in SB history and to break the SB passing record with your best weapon on the bench and a bunch of undrafted slot midgets as your supporting cast? Last night was history. You just knew when they won the OT coin toss that the game was already over.
I mean to orchestrate the biggest comeback in SB history and to break the SB passing record with your best weapon on the bench and a bunch of undrafted slot midgets as your supporting cast? Last night was history. You just knew when they won the OT coin toss that the game was already over.
PapaL
Loose Screw
To me it also was Brady v Montana. Tough to top Montana's 4-0. I don't know that 5-2 does it for me. If anything they're equals in my eyes.
Could Joe have played in this era? Absolutely.
How effective would Brady be in 80-90s? Ehhh...I'm not sure. He really doesn't like being hit and QBs were terrorized in Montana's era.
1A and 1B unless Brady wins 6. Then yeah he's the GOAT.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
How effective would Brady be if he had Jerry Rice? He's made a HOF career out of throwing to guys like Edelman, Welker, and Branch.
The one year he had an elite WR (Moss) he broke the TD record.
The one year he had an elite WR (Moss) he broke the TD record.
Showtime100
Got JJ?
After last night call me in Brady's corner. GOAT.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Brady has had tons of hate on this site for years. I bet a lot of TT members were choking on crow last night.
Brady was GOAT when he went to this 5th SB and lost to NY. Neither of those losses to NY were his fault. The other team got the ball last, and his defense gave up the big plays. He already had been to more SB's than Montana and already had stats that were blowing away Montana's best seasons and I'm also a huge Montana fan. Watching young Brady reminded me of Montana more than any player I had ever seen, but he surpassed him quite a while back. He has had more playoff wins than Montana for years now. His playoff success going to 11 AFC championship games is even more impressive than the SB wins honestly. The only team that ever whipped the Patriots in the playoffs was the Ravens the year after Brady came back from that surgery. Every other playoff loss was typically a nail biter that went down to the last minute or two.
Brady was GOAT when he went to this 5th SB and lost to NY. Neither of those losses to NY were his fault. The other team got the ball last, and his defense gave up the big plays. He already had been to more SB's than Montana and already had stats that were blowing away Montana's best seasons and I'm also a huge Montana fan. Watching young Brady reminded me of Montana more than any player I had ever seen, but he surpassed him quite a while back. He has had more playoff wins than Montana for years now. His playoff success going to 11 AFC championship games is even more impressive than the SB wins honestly. The only team that ever whipped the Patriots in the playoffs was the Ravens the year after Brady came back from that surgery. Every other playoff loss was typically a nail biter that went down to the last minute or two.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Brady has almost doubled the amount of times that Montana went to the SB, and trumps his playoff record. Sorry, but this argument is completely dead. 7 SB appearances to 4, and 25 playoff wins to to 16 of Montanta. Brady has destroyed Montana in regular season stats and the playoff stats aren't even close.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Why do you add this score settling into so many of your posts?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nice of the revisionist historian to appear and tell us what we all thought.
Give the history shtick a rest. It's tired and sad.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
There has been so much unwarranted hate towards this guy for years. A lot of it on this site. Thats the nture of sports. You'll see a few chime in and take away from what they've accomplished out of pure hate and jealousy. Its deserved.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
After guys like you trashed Brady for a long time and argued that Deflategate nonsense, sorry but that isn't happening.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Never trashed Brady. Nice demonstration of your BS.
It's Texecutioner's MO - lie about the MB as a whole or an individual and then tear the lie down. Even in 28 paragraphs he can't straight up argue something. It's sad because he actually has fair football knowledge.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You called him a cheater with no evidence at all and discredited him a lot while playing a pretty obtuse stance towards Goodell and his corruption in that entire thing. You being a lawyer knew better.
I'm just waiting for the next "gate" is going to be after this SB to discredit him or their team. Might as well get it going. Hell, I don't even mind it anymore because it just motivates them for the next up coming season.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I said Brady was guilty as hell and he was. I also said it was ridiculous because he was still GOAT. You and your half stories which equals lying.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Guilty of what? Being accused of something? How did you become a lawyer with that kind of logic? You didn't say a freaking word when Pittsburgh was caught this season about it, even after I even called out out in that thread. Not a peep.
He won the freaking case in court and the only reason why it was overturned was because of the fail from the player's association who negotiated that ridiculous CBA which made Goodell GOD of the NFL. I hope you were happy about that debacle where they totally dragged that guy through the mud, because that ordeal will most certainly cause the worst lockout sports fans have likely ever seen once it expires and a new one has to get drawn up. We'll for sure miss probably half a season if not a whole season.
I've always been a Montana and Staubach guy, but now Brady is fairly easy to argue at GOAT.
I get the whole cheating thing, but if football fans are objective about it, they would understand that ALL teams try to get a competitive edge and some get caught. Just look at this site:
YOUR TEAM CHEATS dot com
Heck, Joe Montana himself was throwing passes to a HoF WR that admitted he was cheating in every game with the use of a banned substance on his gloves. Do the 49ers get asterisks, too?
What we do know is that the last two SB wins by Brady he was under intense scrutiny by the NFL and I doubt there was any sort of cheating with that kind of attention.
I get the whole cheating thing, but if football fans are objective about it, they would understand that ALL teams try to get a competitive edge and some get caught. Just look at this site:
YOUR TEAM CHEATS dot com
Heck, Joe Montana himself was throwing passes to a HoF WR that admitted he was cheating in every game with the use of a banned substance on his gloves. Do the 49ers get asterisks, too?
What we do know is that the last two SB wins by Brady he was under intense scrutiny by the NFL and I doubt there was any sort of cheating with that kind of attention.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I knew that Cak's ankle biter would be in here soon to throw blows for him.
Hey DBCooper, I hope you enjoyed game.
I knew that Cak's ankle biter would be in here soon to throw blows for him.
Hey DBCooper, I hope you enjoyed game.
Great game!
One of the best Super Bowls I've ever seen!
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I've always been a Montana and Staubach guy, but now Brady is fairly easy to argue at GOAT.
I get the whole cheating thing, but if football fans are objective about it, they would understand that ALL teams try to get a competitive edge and some get caught. Just look at this site:
YOUR TEAM CHEATS dot com
Heck, Joe Montana himself was throwing passes to a HoF WR that admitted he was cheating in every game with the use of a banned substance on his gloves. Do the 49ers get asterisks, too?
What we do know is that the last two SB wins by Brady he was under intense scrutiny by the NFL and I doubt there was any sort of cheating with that kind of attention.
Now, they all wear gloves that have a stickem equivalent engineered into the glove itself.
PapaL
Loose Screw
So your argument is that the league is just as strong as it was in Montana's era even with more teams, rules favoring the offense, and refs giving in to Brady's pouting?
There's no single player in the league right now with more asterisk next to his name than Brady. I'm sure you're familiar with all the "scandals" so there's no need to list them all.
With all that said, first ballot HoF and like I said earlier tied with Joe Montana IMO. Mr Bündchen doesn't take a back seat to ANY QB.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I've always been a Montana and Staubach guy, but now Brady is fairly easy to argue at GOAT.
I get the whole cheating thing, but if football fans are objective about it, they would understand that ALL teams try to get a competitive edge and some get caught. Just look at this site:
YOUR TEAM CHEATS dot com
Heck, Joe Montana himself was throwing passes to a HoF WR that admitted he was cheating in every game with the use of a banned substance on his gloves. Do the 49ers get asterisks, too?
What we do know is that the last two SB wins by Brady he was under intense scrutiny by the NFL and I doubt there was any sort of cheating with that kind of attention.
You know what made that performance so sweet that no one is talking about? The fact that the Pats had to get not one, but two 2 pt conversions just to get the tie at the end of the game in regulation. I was so worried that their kicker was going to ruin that point total causing them to lose again like he did last season. People fail to realize that Brady's drive against Denver last season was the best of all time drive to me. Even better than what he did last night, because he did that against that great Denver defense and that should have tied the game or given them the lead had Belicheck gone for the FG the drive right before that. The way that Brady and Gronk connected on that drive was mind blowing and Von Miller even said that he had never felt so unable to stop two guys than at that moment to where it was like they had their own language with each other.
As far as the cheating goes, the people that bought into Deflategate were either not paying any attention to any of the facts or they just had so much blind hate that they didn't care about how corrupt that entire thing was. The Vikings had just gotten a fine for warming up balls on the sidelines. No phones were requested, no wild investigations, no false reports from Mortenson on ESPN, or anything like that. It was a complete sham that was done to a guy that has been arguably one of the best class acts in the NFL throughout his entire history. There was obviously some foolery that went on with Spygate, but even with that fans failed to acknowledge how many other teams had been doing that for so long, and the fact that the Pats came back and went undefeated pretty much killed the idea that they needed to cheat to accomplish what they did.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I've always been a Montana and Staubach guy, but now Brady is fairly easy to argue at GOAT.
I get the whole cheating thing, but if football fans are objective about it, they would understand that ALL teams try to get a competitive edge and some get caught. Just look at this site:
YOUR TEAM CHEATS dot com
Heck, Joe Montana himself was throwing passes to a HoF WR that admitted he was cheating in every game with the use of a banned substance on his gloves. Do the 49ers get asterisks, too?
What we do know is that the last two SB wins by Brady he was under intense scrutiny by the NFL and I doubt there was any sort of cheating with that kind of attention.
You know what made that performance so sweet that no one is talking about? The fact that the Pats had to get not one, but two 2 pt conversions just to get the tie at the end of the game in regulation. I was so worried that their kicker was going to ruin that point total causing them to lose again like he did last season. People fail to realize that Brady's drive against Denver last season was the best of all time drive to me. Even better than what he did last night, because he did that against that great Denver defense and that should have tied the game or given them the lead had Belicheck gone for the FG the drive right before that. The way that Brady and Gronk connected on that drive was mind blowing and Von Miller even said that he had never felt so unable to stop two guys than at that moment to where it was like they had their own language with each other.
As far as the cheating goes, the people that bought into Deflategate were either not paying any attention to any of the facts or they just had so much blind hate that they didn't care about how corrupt that entire thing was. The Vikings had just gotten a fine for warming up balls on the sidelines. No phones were requested, no wild investigations, no false reports from Mortenson on ESPN, or anything like that. It was a complete sham that was done to a guy that has been arguably one of the best class acts in the NFL throughout his entire history. There was obviously some foolery that went on with Spygate, but even with that fans failed to acknowledge how many other teams had been doing that for so long, and the fact that the Pats came back and went undefeated pretty much killed the idea that they needed to cheat to accomplish what they did.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This is the exact kind of nonsense that should totally answer Texan Seminole's question. The bitter little fans like you who have so much jealousy that you simply can't acknowledge the fact that the Patriots are just the most well run organization of all time from this era. Go talk to any NFL executive or anyone in the business and they'll all say that. Every time guys like you try to discredit them and jump onto some sort of scandal (that you ignore from every other team including the 49ers) it just motivates the Pats to dominate the next season, so bring it on man. Keep them coming. I've learned to embrace that at this point, because what we witnessed last night was the greatest SB performance in NFL history that topped Brady's last SB performance which was the greatest against Seattle.
And for the record I love Montana. And is the league as strong? Absolutely it has been as strong. You can bring up rule changes, but you fail to acknowledge how much more complex defensive schemes have been over this era which are harder to game plan for. You also fail to acknowledge that Brady has also had to compete against all these elite offenses that he has to match points with as well. And QB's get hurt just as much now than what they did back then. Hell, I think they get injured even more so the risks of staying healthy is arguably even more difficult in today's game. And when you look at the FA era that Montana and Aikman and them didn't have to play in, it easily is more impressive when you see the gazillion guys that Brady has won with over this period of time. All you guys said they were done when he lost Gronk. Nope,their offense got even better, and they still won it without the best TE to ever step on the field.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
All BS to the side with you not wanting them to win (and us ribbing each other a lot), I'm glad you enjoyed the game. Most of my pals that love to rub it in my face when they lose and were texting me through the 2nd half still recognized the greatness they saw last night. I'm still trying to actually absorb it. Almost feels like the Oilers/Bills game except the team I wanted to win got the W, and it was in the SB.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You put Staubach on there that high? Over Elway, Favre, and Manning? I get the Unitas thing, because before Montana accomplished what he did it was Unitas that got the GOAT status from a lot of people. I remember as a kid in elementary school I'd argue with people about Montana and Bradshaw which wasn't close to me, but Bradshaw had those 4 rings. Bart Starr had what two SB's in the first official two? I'd like some explanations on some of these if you don't mind. I'm not knocking your choices really, but I'd just like to hear why at least Elway isn't in the top 5.
Also, where do you rank Steve Young? He seems like one of the hardest guys to rank in these discussions since he played behind Montana for so long and had a short career as a starter.
Young deserves more love.
I was neutral last night, so I was able to watch in a very Zen way.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Jimmy Garoppolo has more rings than Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, & Fran Tarkenton combined despite those 5 guys having combined to throw 1,756 more TD's than Garoppolo.
Football is crazy sometimes.
Football is crazy sometimes.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just curious, did you ever watch Staubach live? Not at the stadium, just live.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
No I didn't. I've watched some of his classic games though.
Feel free to answer that question I posed to Bah, since I know that you're a long time fan of Staubach. I'm not knocking the guy for the record. I'd like to hear the arguments that you guys would present for him though. Lets leave the Brady spat alone since we're not going to get anywhere obviously. For the record it is nice to see some of you guys giving him his proper due though, I'll leave it at that.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He probably does, but I think its hard to rank him in these discussions because of his lack of a body of work compared to a lot of others since he sat behind Montana. When he got his chance though, he killed it for sure. Interesting to contemplate where he would have stood in this had to been a long time starter for another team. As a Montana fan, I hated how they got rid of Montana when they did, but I realize it was the right decision.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Who said I was jealous. I stated MY OPINION. Tough luck that YOU don't agree.
The Patriots are the model franchise of the new millennium. No one denies that. Doesn't mean I'm slobbing on Brady's knob like you are. Again IN MY OPINION he's equal to Montana. You have options if you don't agree. Yes I'm sure my opinion is motivating the Patriots right now. Robert Craft is scanning our little message board for bulletin board material. Ohhhh we're going to show Papa L that Brady is best all time. We'll show him!
Get over yourself Tex. You're showing your ass yet again.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Short answer, I struggle with Starr, Elway, and Manning depending on when I'm having the conversation. I could easily have those three in a different order on different days.
Starr and Unitas always get hurt because of the time frame where they played their prime. They didn't win a ton of Super Bowls but each won numerous titles before the Super Bowl era. Unitas, in particular, was extraordinarily better than his peers.
I'd have Young at #8. Favre is probably #9. I'm not too high on Bradshaw, though he is always a part of this conversation due to his SB numbers.
banned1976
sleeper mode
To me, it's hard for me to compare the 80's NFL to today. The rules have changed so much as far as protecting the QB. So I'd say Brady and Montana share the title of the two best QB's ever.
BTW, it's interesting that Super Bowl 51 Pats margin of victory of 6 points is their highest margin of victory of all 5 of their Super Bowl wins.
BTW, it's interesting that Super Bowl 51 Pats margin of victory of 6 points is their highest margin of victory of all 5 of their Super Bowl wins.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You have bashed them for a long time, and yet they've continued to be in the AFC Championship every season. Sorry, but your opinions towards them have been filled with a lot of hate so I think the jealousy thing is accurate. Tons of fans have it towards the Pats, and a lot of people freely admit it. I've had that towards the Broncos when Elway played, but I give that guy some of the most props ever. I had that against Kobe Bryant and Shaq and those Lakers teams that dominated everyone so badly for a while, but by the end of Kobe's career I began to appreciate what I witnessed with him. Tons of fans over the years felt that way about the Yankees as well. It is very common for teams that were dynasty teams. Hell, there are a few old timer fans in here in TT that "hate" the Steelers organization tremendously due to their dominance in the 70's and how the Oilers could never get past them.
But as far as Montana and Brady goes, it isn't even close. And again, I'm a Montana fan but Brady blew past him by a mile taking a much more difficult road. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, but based on the facts of accomplishments and the eras it just isn't close. The only people that would still call this a tie are people that hate Brady. I'm okay with that, but that doesn't mean it won't be acknowledged for what it is. Feel free to post a stat based argument for Montana and what he did in the post season which is even more important. Maybe you haven't looked that closely on this.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Brady is phenomenal. Do I need to do more, genuflect, maybe get a Giselle icon to 'meditate' to? The latter doesn't sound so bad.
Staubach was the most complete QB I've ever seen. He'd hang and take the hit. He'd run for the 1st down. He'd deliver a spot on Hail Mary (named after him). He pinholed passes. He fought Tom Landry - only he and Bob Lilly could talk to Landry. He played a game with the pinkie on his throwing hand at 90 degrees. It was ugly ro look at. And having been fortunate enough to meet him (neighbor to my HS best friend and then neighbor professionally) quite a few times, damn nice guy. Yankee beyond his control but Texan at heart.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Those teams played against defenses that also had schemes that weren't nearly as complex as today. The athletes now are faster and stronger. I'd also argue that the QB's now get hurt just as much if not more, and there seems to be even more QB's struggling to be consistent than ever before. There is such a huge gap between the elites like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees over the last 12 years or so. Those teams in that era also got to stay with their teams for most of that career so if you had a dominant team around you, it typically stayed that way. If you look at the 4 QB's I just mentioned Manning is the only guy that had his main play makers with him for most of his career, but even then he went to Denver and killed it with another stacked roster, but still played amazing. The QB's of today are required to do a lot more than what those QB's had to do back then when you look at guys like Brady and Manning who do so much analyzing at the line of scrimmage. I think that Marino or Young would have likely been the most successful guys from that era in this era if they played now.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I'd say that Aaron Rodgers, Young, or Favre were better versions of him. I've seen him do some pretty amazing things for the record. I watched some of those battles with the Steelers especially. I'd like to hear more of a stat based argument amongst his peers to go along with what you put in this post though. Not that I don't like what you mentioned. I do, and I'd like to hear you ellaborate on those stories if you care to take the time (especially the one with him fighting Landry). My good friend mentions Bob Lilly all the time as Lilly is a big photographer now days and they worked with each other a lot and has a lot of great stories about Lilly as a person.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I hear ya, the top 5 is tough. I change mine quite a bit myself.
Today, I'd probably go
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Elway
4. Manning
5. Favre
Manning and Favre are terribly hard to swap in and out of this thing. Favre will likely get replaced by Rodgers. Manning has a lot of accomplishments, but he had the best weapons over a career than any QB in history to me and it isn't even close as far as I'm concerned so I have to measure that. Favre played with so many receivers throughout his career and was close to winning 2 SB's, and played on 3 teams where he played really well. That season he had in Minnesota pushes him pretty high for me since their offense was trash before he got there and some of the throws he made that year at such an old age. That was throw he made that was like a hail marry to win the game, but was actually like a bullet in the back of the end zone to Bernard Berrian is the single best throw I've ever seen. Not sure if you remember that one.