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Where is TJ when the season begins?
- Thread starter humbleone
- Start date
Texans34Life
I BLEED TEXANS!
Here's more insult to injury:
Texans | Johnson struggling in practice
Fri, 26 May 2006 07:27:06 -0700
Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans DT Travis Johnson has been struggling in practice. The former first-round pick has seen time with the second team but also taken a number of repetitions with the third team. "Right now it's difficult, because I've still got a lot of mistakes I'm trying to weave through, but I think I'll be all right," said Johnson. "Right now, I'm just trying to readjust to doing all the things I learned how to do in college."
Texans | Johnson struggling in practice
Fri, 26 May 2006 07:27:06 -0700
Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans DT Travis Johnson has been struggling in practice. The former first-round pick has seen time with the second team but also taken a number of repetitions with the third team. "Right now it's difficult, because I've still got a lot of mistakes I'm trying to weave through, but I think I'll be all right," said Johnson. "Right now, I'm just trying to readjust to doing all the things I learned how to do in college."
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Eh I really see that more as TJ realizing he'll have to work harder if he wants to make the team... not insult to injury
-2->
-2->As usual, I have enjoyed and learned more from the posts on this thread than the Chronicle article on TJ which followed.
Here is my follow-up question regarding TJ: Is there any way he could be involved in a trade before the season starts? Generally, 1st-2nd rounders stick with the teams that drafted them for at least 2 years almost no matter what right? Or is there some precedent for this sort of thing...new HC, new GM, new "team direction" resulting in a quick trade trigger pull?
Here is my follow-up question regarding TJ: Is there any way he could be involved in a trade before the season starts? Generally, 1st-2nd rounders stick with the teams that drafted them for at least 2 years almost no matter what right? Or is there some precedent for this sort of thing...new HC, new GM, new "team direction" resulting in a quick trade trigger pull?
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Texans34Life said:
Sounds like he was coached to ("un-learn"?) all the things he learned in college that made him a first round pick.
Wonder who gets the credit for teaching? him last year?
I think TJ will be just fine as soon as Fangio and Co. are flushed from his system.
Have I said lately that I'm glad that last bunch of inept coaches are gone?
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Don't know how it is now, but back in the day...that was the kiss of death for a player. Player goes Casper... "poof " he's *gone*.No one is above the turk. JMHO.fastpitchwoof said:I heard things about Mario, Babin/Peek, Smith, Payne, and Weaver. I haven't seen or heard anything about TJ. What is going on with him. I was thinking that he would do well in the 4-3 but I haven't heard anything about how he is doing.
ensign_lee
Rookie
He's going to be spending another year learning. I really can't see him cracking the starting lineup of DTs, with Weaver, Payne, and Smith in front of him. We can't keep all these guys forever though, so he'll get a bigger chance next year.
But to answer the original question, he would b the fourth DT on the depth chart, not an envious position.
But to answer the original question, he would b the fourth DT on the depth chart, not an envious position.
wrestler4life
Waterboy
Then he was a waste of #1 pickedo783 said:
TexanFanInCC
Veteran
TEXANRED said:
i just mentioned logjam at LB....now we have one at d-line. lemme break down who i think will start.
LDE- babin
DT- r. smith
DT - seth payne
RDE- mario
weaver will play run downs. on pass downs, mario moves inside and peek takes RDE, looking like this....
LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek
does ND Kalu factor in?
R
real
Guest
TexanFanInCC said:
Weaver will start, IMO...and you said weaver will be play run downs....(1) you make that statement then put him on your passing down formation(2) he used to play DE, and is probably the best pass rushing DT we have...
My two cents Babin-Smith-Weaver-Kalu, start the season with the proven line. Payne for Smith if you like. If stopping the run is what Kubiak needs, then Peek will not start, last year he proved he was to small to put on the line, teams ran at him all day successfully.
This line should hold down the run, and Weaver/Kalu both have been good at sacking the QB.
This line should hold down the run, and Weaver/Kalu both have been good at sacking the QB.
TexanFan881
All Pro
wrestler4life said:
That sounds about right
BlueThunder
Waterboy
I'm going to put Travis Johnson on my team.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
It seems like they are going to work this defensive line into a rotation system. I think you are going to see a lot of fresh legs at not only the DE but they will rotate at LB as well. I think someone mentioned that Weaver could play DE in certain situtations in a role similar to what L.Lett used to do for the Cowboys under JJ. I like the depth at DL but I still cant get over the fact that our organization's football people are this down on TJ after only one year of NFL play. He must really be a bust. Well poetry aside, I hope to see a good rotation at DE and put some pressure on the QB, because our secondary could really struggle this year.
doug
doug
BlueThunder
Waterboy
You people just talking your stupid blabber..The real question is where is Anthony Weaver going to play..Travis Johnson is going to take the number 3 spot in the 3 Tackle rotation..Anthony Weaver is the player we should be looking at because he at the roof of his ceiling..Can he play outside at DE?Can he hold a starting spot on the inside?Is he really that good against the run..You want to look at numbers go look at at LeRoi Glovers numbers when he had a clog next to him....What was it 51 tackles 20 sacks?Don't start getting in to big a hurry on these players....In 3 year this team could be 1/4 th FSU Alumni..
You don't start on on Florida State unless you have real talent and thats what Johnson has..
You don't start on on Florida State unless you have real talent and thats what Johnson has..
MorKnolle
All Pro
Wow, there is some serious craziness in this thread. TJ will probably end up starting the season on 3rd string as he is currently behind Alfred Malone. Robaire Smith and Seth Payne play the same position, Weaver and Johnson will play the same position, and TJ is not about to overtake Weaver.
There is no way in hell that Mario does not start and play every single down that he has the energy to play, he is our best pass rusher and probably our best DLineman against the run already, and we just used the #1 overall pick on him and gave him $54 million. There is absolutely no way he won't start for us. He might see some time at DT on passing situations with Peek and Babin at DEs, but I don't expect to see that very much. Peek and Babin will have a nice battle during training camp to decide who will be our starting WDE.
There is no way in hell that Mario does not start and play every single down that he has the energy to play, he is our best pass rusher and probably our best DLineman against the run already, and we just used the #1 overall pick on him and gave him $54 million. There is absolutely no way he won't start for us. He might see some time at DT on passing situations with Peek and Babin at DEs, but I don't expect to see that very much. Peek and Babin will have a nice battle during training camp to decide who will be our starting WDE.
jmerog
Waterboy
first of all, i was just joking around. second of all- i was just joking around ABOUT A PLAYER and didn't attack you personally. If i werent such a gentleman i would tell you that your post made you look classless and stupid. But since i am a gentleman, I'll just say that your post, ' leaves room for improvement'.
To the others- I am not against johnson. we paid a lot for him and i hope he works out. He will not start- nuff said.
To the others- I am not against johnson. we paid a lot for him and i hope he works out. He will not start- nuff said.
Texansbacker
Waterboy
Robaire Smith, Seth Payne, Travis Johnson, Anthony Weaver, and Alfred Malone all in a rotation at defensive tackle until someone gets hurt, stands out or a continual rotation could be maintained. My bet is that the cream will rise to the top with clear starters and relievers but a rotation none-the-less.
Mario Williams is the only clear starter at this point. I think you can make a good case for all of the others but their play in preseason will ulitimately determine the outcome.
Mario Williams/ND Kalu
Travis Johnson/Seth Payne
Robaire Smith/Alfred Malone
Anthony Weaver/Jason Babin
Jason Babin/ND Kalu
Mario Williams/Seth Payne
Anthony Weaver/Travis Johnson
Antwan Peek/Alfred Malone
Mario Williams/ND Kalu
Seth Payne/Travis Johnson
Robaire Smith/Alfred Malone
Antwan Peek/Jason Babin
Robaire should be better this year returning to a 4-3 as should TJ. Weaver was solid on a good Raven D and hopefully the change to a leadership role on a new team will be inspirational to him. Seth Payne will no doubt be inspirational in his preparation and his play, provided he stays healthy, the MAIN hazard for him. The option to fold in Mario Williams to the inside makes this a vastly improved team from the ones of the past.
Then you look at the defensive ends and we have Mario Williams, Jason Babin, Antwan Peek, ND Kalu, Alfred Malone, and possibly Anthony Weaver. Question marks no doubt but it also has POTENTIAL written all over it.
Proof is in the pudding. Looks tasty!
Mario Williams is the only clear starter at this point. I think you can make a good case for all of the others but their play in preseason will ulitimately determine the outcome.
Mario Williams/ND Kalu
Travis Johnson/Seth Payne
Robaire Smith/Alfred Malone
Anthony Weaver/Jason Babin
Jason Babin/ND Kalu
Mario Williams/Seth Payne
Anthony Weaver/Travis Johnson
Antwan Peek/Alfred Malone
Mario Williams/ND Kalu
Seth Payne/Travis Johnson
Robaire Smith/Alfred Malone
Antwan Peek/Jason Babin
Robaire should be better this year returning to a 4-3 as should TJ. Weaver was solid on a good Raven D and hopefully the change to a leadership role on a new team will be inspirational to him. Seth Payne will no doubt be inspirational in his preparation and his play, provided he stays healthy, the MAIN hazard for him. The option to fold in Mario Williams to the inside makes this a vastly improved team from the ones of the past.
Then you look at the defensive ends and we have Mario Williams, Jason Babin, Antwan Peek, ND Kalu, Alfred Malone, and possibly Anthony Weaver. Question marks no doubt but it also has POTENTIAL written all over it.
Proof is in the pudding. Looks tasty!
BlueThunder
Waterboy
I just hope Rick Smith can work this out and maybe salvage this player or fix this.I really think we need to make the right decision here,,this guy was a top 10 pick..I think Travis just got started out on the wrong foot and if its worth it set a bar for him,,..I would start it off with him losing 18 pounds..Our Owner ain't going to sit here the next five years paying this guy top 10 money to set on the bench and get fat..This guy has to prove he wants to own that top 10 money..He's atleast 10 to 15 pound from proving he wants to play in this league..Why don't you people go look at some 4th or 5 rounder to set on the bench..You people don't know whats going on in the front office!Its the coaxges job to make football players out of these guys..
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
BlueThunder said:Thats really sad to think our first round pick is a bust and won't find the field.I think we may need to look at this personal department and the strenths and condictioning of this team.I think we may have a problem somewhere in management or maybe were just not all on the same page
Travis is the starter,he's the first round pick,,,I don't give a fuk about Weaver...If were paying Travis top money his azz needs to be playing...Weaver ain't even a top 50 DT in this league and he's a 6 year vet...
il be nice: you obviously dont know what you are talking about..tj will not start, it doesnt matter if hes a 1st round pick or UFA..weaver is performing better and therefore deserves the starting spot.
TexanFan881
All Pro
BlueThunder said:
1.) It's way too early to give up on him
2.) We already have a solid DL, with or without him
3.) No team in the league will give us much for him, so it's not worth it
bayoudreamn
Rookie
TexanFanInCC said:
I couldn't help but laugh when I was reading this post. You list everyone in the post by last name......always.....except "Mario".....
Anyway....I thought it was funny....
bayoudreamn
Rookie
HOU-TEX said:
yes....it has......the coaches said it.....it was in some media coverage a while back
TJ can be as good as he decides to be. From everything I've heard so far, he's a backup. This staff has no loyalty to any of Capers' players. They don't care when you were picked or what potential the last guy saw in you. If you don't perform, they don't have to play you because you aren't their mistake. Weaver is Kubiak's guy. TJ is Capers'. This team will benefit quite a bit if TJ decides to live up to his potential. We'll see if it happens.
bayoudreamn
Rookie
Runner said:
I agree with that.
BlueThunder
Waterboy
A player don't develope on the bench,,.I just can't see Travis a top 10 pick bearied behind 3 DTs.The guy should get atleast 40 percent of the snaps..He has to develope into a full time starter.I think Robaire Smith or Seth Payne is the odd man out...If the coaches feel they had to go outside the house to get a starter then one of these 2 vets need to go..I just can't see a rotation tackle coming in to knock the top 10 pick out of the backup rotation spot..
A tough call to start things off,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We can carry 4 and mostlikely will this year til we find out who we don't need..I just can't see Travis not in the picture if he's going to grow.
We could possibly rotate Robaire Payne and Weaver per game to the 48 but I wouldn't think it good business if Travis stays and isn't on the 48 being a top 10 pick..bottom line
Theres nothing wrong with rotating the vets ,,,they would get like 12 games each,,it would build there value and we would get a chance to evaluate them in the 43 for a year before we make final clean up.
A tough call to start things off,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We can carry 4 and mostlikely will this year til we find out who we don't need..I just can't see Travis not in the picture if he's going to grow.
We could possibly rotate Robaire Payne and Weaver per game to the 48 but I wouldn't think it good business if Travis stays and isn't on the 48 being a top 10 pick..bottom line
Theres nothing wrong with rotating the vets ,,,they would get like 12 games each,,it would build there value and we would get a chance to evaluate them in the 43 for a year before we make final clean up.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
BlueThunder said:
First off TJ was picked 16th overall.
Not sure why a DT needs to weigh 285 lbs--most would say that is too light.
Last, if you are talking about keeping money on the field Weaver is the more expensive player and by that logic should start--cap hits--Weaver $3.4 mil, TJ $1.5 mil.
So you would have a coach who does not believe TJ is currently one of the best 2 or even 3 DT's on the team put him in the game anyway simply to justify an old administration's 16th overall pick?
By the way Smith and Payne are also more expensive than TJ--Smith $4.8 mil, Payne $4.2 mil. Now after this season, if TJ shows something in the rotation and Smith does not up his performance, relative value could see Smith in trouble.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
So your logic is that just because the Johnsonbury Doughboy was a 1st round pick, he can sit on his butt and get fat and do nothing at all to improve himself, and get completely outperformed by 4 other guys, that he should still start? Hmmm.... I am still searching for the logic in your logic.BlueThunder said:A player don't develope on the bench,,.I just can't see Travis a top 10 pick bearied behind 3 DTs.The guy should get atleast 40 percent of the snaps..He has to develope into a full time starter.I think Robaire Smith or Seth Payne is the odd man out...If the coaches feel they had to go outside the house to get a starter then one of these 2 vets need to go..I just can't see a rotation tackle coming in to knock the top 10 pick out of the backup rotation spot..
A tough call to start things off,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We can carry 4 and mostlikely will this year til we find out who we don't need..I just can't see Travis not in the picture if he's going to grow.
We could possibly rotate Robaire Payne and Weaver per game to the 48 but I wouldn't think it good business if Travis stays and isn't on the 48 being a top 10 pick..bottom line
Theres nothing wrong with rotating the vets ,,,they would get like 12 games each,,it would build there value and we would get a chance to evaluate them in the 43 for a year before we make final clean up.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I don't really know much on Weaver except from what I've read. I can't really elaborate more due to the fact that I can't remember where I read it, but I remember it saying he was better fit for a run D. Either way, I'm pretty pumped on seeing the changes in our D.TheOgre said:
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I love how people get fixated on the starting line and the backup line. It makes me chuckle softly 
.
Yes, TJ might still needs to develope, but he will most likely still get playing time (Sorry you haters out there) He might not start, but he will play.
During the off-season we've heard from the coaches (Rick Smith and Kubiak... and the D-Line Coach ... I think those 3) that we have a lot of depth at the line and they are focusing on a good rotation for the season. We could have a different starting D-Line every week this season because
Who'da-thunkit?
Gameplan - We will look at what the others team philosophy is, their Strengths, their weaknesses, and tendancies.
And the rotation will depend on all of the above mentioned, as well as:
A) Situation
B) Which of our D-Linemans talents best fits the situation
C) Which of those D-Lineman are a little tired
I don't think it will be too easy to guess what are line will look like untill at least week 2 or 3...
.Yes, TJ might still needs to develope, but he will most likely still get playing time (Sorry you haters out there) He might not start, but he will play.
During the off-season we've heard from the coaches (Rick Smith and Kubiak... and the D-Line Coach ... I think those 3) that we have a lot of depth at the line and they are focusing on a good rotation for the season. We could have a different starting D-Line every week this season because
Who'da-thunkit?
Gameplan - We will look at what the others team philosophy is, their Strengths, their weaknesses, and tendancies.
And the rotation will depend on all of the above mentioned, as well as:
A) Situation
B) Which of our D-Linemans talents best fits the situation
C) Which of those D-Lineman are a little tired
I don't think it will be too easy to guess what are line will look like untill at least week 2 or 3...
I agree Brandon. I don't think TJ will start (until he proves he deserves to) but it really doesn't matter. We will rotate our D-Linemen so much that the top backups will get as many reps as the starters. I really hope this guy turns out to be what we hoped, but I'm not optimistic. I guess I'll just have to take the same "wait and see" attitude I am taking with another player who shall remain nameless.
AFD1717 said:
I still think it still depends on performance. They might be satisfied with a 3 deep rotation if the drop-off to the 4th tackle is greater than the return of keeping people fresh. Injuries are always a wild card though. That is wehere playing time really gets jumbled up.
Runner said:
You nailed it. I think TJ will end up getting more snaps once Seth "Pain" ends up getting an injury. It also depends on how well Babin and Peek do as DEs. If they do well, I expect Weaver will play mostly DT and I think you'll see Mario slide down some too. If Peek and Babin flop, Weaver and Mario will be on the ends almost exclusively and they will be forced to rotate TJ in to keep our other DTs fresh. TJ will play more as the season progresses because he will (hopefully) get better and he probably won't break down as much since his is younger than our other DTs.
AFD1717 said:
And this is definitely NOT the way we want someone to gain playing time. It signifies a breakdown somewhere along the line - evaluation of Peek/Babin, scheme, training, something. However if this theoretical proposition is identified in camp, then the system works.
However, I don't think both Peek and Babin will come up empty. One of them will perform well, right?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
AFD1717 said:
Geez--some of these things are like tribbles--you can't get rid of the pesky things. Payne has missed games in 1 of the last 7 years (a single injury well past its recovery time at this point--and due to a freakishly bad field surface which was replaced mid-season afterwards because it was so bad) due to injury and none the last two years. By the way, TJ is the one who didn't make it thru mini-camp healthy.
MorKnolle
All Pro
AFD1717 said:
I want to point out a couplt things again with all this "rotating all the DTs" talk:
I doubt the top backups will get as many reps as the starters, but we will see. I don't see this defense running the same set enough that they will really need to "rotate" the players on and off the field, I think they will have enough different kinds of looks that will naturally bring in slightly different sets of personnel that the starters will get enough rest and we won't be running the same formation over and over and having to spell the whole 1st group with the whole 2nd string at any point. That said, I don't really see TJ being part of the #1 group in any formation that they're likely to run unless he significantly improves his play.
In addition, the DTs in our base set have different roles, Robaire Smith and Seth Payne are fit for one of the roles and thus will sub for each other as needed, and Anthony Weaver and TJ/Alfred Malone play the other role, so they will sub for each other as needed, so until TJ actually beats out Malone and then earns the backup role behind Weaver he probably won't see the field at all, and even then he'll only come in if Weaver needs a rest. TJ does not play the same position on this DLine that Payne and Robaire do, so he won't fill in for them unless both get hurt. On passing situations (nickel and dime formations on obvious passing downs), Weaver and maybe TJ or else Robaire could see the field at DT, although it has been mentioned that they will probably try Mario at DT some as well in those circumstances to get more speed on the field, which would bump TJ out of that lineup.