When do we go UGLY?

[AustinJB]

For all DD has, you don't scheme to stop him. Defenses invited the Texans to give DD the ball. That should tell you enough about what DD lacks. DD gets the fantasy numbers, but he doesn't change defenses.

This makes absolutely no sense to me and makes me wonder if some of you understand how football is played. Yeah, of course defenses invite us to give him the ball....b/c all they have to do is stack the line and they can stop us b/c we have NO passing game...DD is our only threat b/c we can't get the ball to AJ. They know that DD has been the only constant for our offense, so he is the only one they have to worry about stopping.

HoustonFrog: Nobody is going to "break one to hurt them" when there are eight guys in the box. I know DD doesn't have the speed that Bush does, but that is not our main problem. Getting Bush will not change the fact that we have a mediocre QB and a HORRIBLE Oline. If our passing attack was anywhere near adequate, we would have a great offense b/c DD is SOLID. He gives you a 1,000 yds every year...He can't do it all by himself people!:brickwall

Let me see if I can make it a little clearer for some of you. Okay, here is the scenario:
We have a productive running game w/ a young back that puts up good "fantasy" numbers but doesn't WIN games for you. We have a young stud WR but we can't get him the ball. Our QB has yet to show that he was worth the #1 pick (putting it mildly IMO) and our Oline is admittedly the worst in the league. So....how do you propose that we fix this problem? Draft another running back. UNBELIEVABLE! That is the ONLY part of our offense that is legitimate. Lets take away playing time from the only guy on the offensive side of the ball that has been worth a D*#N!! :brickwall

 

[TEXANFAN23435]

AustinJB, based on that post please explain the following... Why did Steve Young become a Hall of Fame QB with San Francisco but never showed his Hall of Fame credentials in Tampa Bay??? Didn't he arrive in TB with the same fanfare and expectations as DC did here in Houston??? He didn't blossom as a QB until he had some protection and a lot of talent around him. So, feel free to answer the questions.

 

[MojoX]

This makes absolutely no sense to me and makes me wonder if some of you understand how football is played. Yeah, of course defenses invite us to give him the ball....b/c all they have to do is stack the line and they can stop us b/c we have NO passing game...DD is our only threat b/c we can't get the ball to AJ. They know that DD has been the only constant for our offense, so he is the only one they have to worry about stopping.

HoustonFrog: Nobody is going to "break one to hurt them" when there are eight guys in the box. I know DD doesn't have the speed that Bush does, but that is not our main problem. Getting Bush will not change the fact that we have a mediocre QB and a HORRIBLE Oline. If our passing attack was anywhere near adequate, we would have a great offense b/c DD is SOLID. He gives you a 1,000 yds every year...He can't do it all by himself people!:brickwall

Let me see if I can make it a little clearer for some of you. Okay, here is the scenario:
We have a productive running game w/ a young back that puts up good "fantasy" numbers but doesn't WIN games for you. We have a young stud WR but we can't get him the ball. Our QB has yet to show that he was worth the #1 pick (putting it mildly IMO) and our Oline is admittedly the worst in the league. So....how do you propose that we fix this problem? Draft another running back. UNBELIEVABLE! That is the ONLY part of our offense that is legitimate. Lets take away playing time from the only guy on the offensive side of the ball that has been worth a D*#N!! :brickwall

You guys act like the Texans have only one pick in this draft. They have 4 on the first freaking day. No matter who they draft first, they will be getting an excellent player, hopefully the guy they deem BPA. They can address needs and depth with the rest of their picks. Drafting Bush or Young or Williams does not preclude them from addressing the offensive line--which suffered not only from a lack of talent, but from bad coaching and a QB who spent more time looking at the pass rush than looking at his reads. If this draft is as deep at tackle as some say it is, then the team might afford to pass on Ferguson.

Do notice no one is suggesting the team draft a RB. They are suggesting the team draft Reggie Bush. If Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Ferguson are all equal to the hype (regardless of what our internet football talent evaluation skills tell us) who do you draft? It might be an easy one for you, but not for me. I want Ferguson, but I can't help wondering if Bush really is as good as he appears to be. In the end, I am still non-committal and will be happy if they take Bush or Ferguson (or Young, if he stands up against film study).

 

[AustinJB]

You guys act like the Texans have only one pick in this draft. They have 4 on the first freaking day. No matter who they draft first, they will be getting an excellent player, hopefully the guy they deem BPA. They can address needs and depth with the rest of their picks. Drafting Bush or Young or Williams does not preclude them from addressing the offensive line--which suffered not only from a lack of talent, but from bad coaching and a QB who spent more time looking at the pass rush than looking at his reads. If this draft is as deep at tackle as some say it is, then the team might afford to pass on Ferguson.

Do notice no one is suggesting the team draft a RB. They are suggesting the team draft Reggie Bush. If Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Ferguson are all equal to the hype (regardless of what our internet football talent evaluation skills tell us) who do you draft? It might be an easy one for you, but not for me. I want Ferguson, but I can't help wondering if Bush really is as good as he appears to be. In the end, I am still non-committal and will be happy if they take Bush or Ferguson (or Young, if he stands up against film study).

All of this is true and I agree w/ you completely.

What I do NOT agree w/ is the bashing of DD. Some people bash Carr, but at least his play is questionable enough to merit the criticism. DD has played great for a losing team that has nothing but a running game, yet he's still able to get the job done.

 

[MojoX]

All of this is true and I agree w/ you completely.

What I do NOT agree w/ is the bashing of DD. Some people bash Carr, but at least his play is questionable enough to merit the criticism. DD has played great for a losing team that has nothing but a running game, yet he's still able to get the job done.

DD is a great back. He is strong, elusive, shifty, a good pass receiver, but he isn't perfect (and neither is Bush) and the things one can critique about DD aren't things he can control. IMO, to question his durability (note how often he is injured and how the team suffers when he is) and to note that he isn't a homerun threat isn't bashing him (just as questioning David Carr's leadership, pocket sense, and ability to read defenses isn't over the top). I understand where you are coming from, and I don't mean to come across as one of those posters obsessed with convincing the world Player X sucks.

 

[TreWardTxn]

I understand the Texans have a lot of holes to fill;however, if one of these guys is the "generational" (Bush) or "never-before-seen-talent" (Young) that all these scouts and analysts say they are, then as a franchise, you have got to take one. There will be other great players in future drafts (Polamalu was a 16th pick, Osi Umenyiora of the Giants a second rounder) and better coaching should help develop a lot of the talent that is to join the team. As a pro prospect, D'Brick is not as coveted as Robert Gallery was just two years ago. Mario Williams is not quite the freakish athlete Peppers is. Those guys will be awesome players, no doubt (barring injury). But the fact of the matter is there will be comparable guys in the near future. We will see how badly other teams want to move to that #1 spot. If Bush is the once-in-25-year talent' everyone says he is, then I would think there should be some team out there willing to throw out a lucrative trade for him...

 

[TreWardTxn]

AustinJB, based on that post please explain the following... Why did Steve Young become a Hall of Fame QB with San Francisco but never showed his Hall of Fame credentials in Tampa Bay??? Didn't he arrive in TB with the same fanfare and expectations as DC did here in Houston??? He didn't blossom as a QB until he had some protection and a lot of talent around him. So, feel free to answer the questions.

Be real, he spent two years, one as a starter in TB, for all intents and purposes he was still a young, unproven player when TB ditched him, not a washout/ major disappointment. I don't remember the history behind the move, but the Bucs were well known as a bumbling franchise, and were obviously not as enamored with his good footwork, which Bill Walsh felt was the true greatness of Cool Joe, and later Stevie Y. He basically spent 6 years on the bench learning to play NFL QB, four of them behind one the greatest ever, making his particular situation incomparable to the starting QB on our team...

 

[HoustonFrog]

HoustonFrog: Nobody is going to "break one to hurt them" when there are eight guys in the box. I know DD doesn't have the speed that Bush does, but that is not our main problem. Getting Bush will not change the fact that we have a mediocre QB and a HORRIBLE Oline. If our passing attack was anywhere near adequate, we would have a great offense b/c DD is SOLID. He gives you a 1,000 yds every year...He can't do it all by himself people!

Austin I'm not going to get into a peeing match on here about football knowledge because I've been watching and studying the game since the 70s but the fact that almost every analyst in American thinks we will go Bush because DD is an "alright" player says enough. I give the guy all the credit in the world for what he has done but something is wrong if you honestly think a guy who is injured often and who is not a game breaker is our franchise back. People are dead wrong about when he was out of the game. Wells had good games when DD was out and we even won one of them..Az. Heck Morency avg 4.0 yards a carry the last game and did well. I'm not going to act like the guy is a bust. He has done well but with the exception of maybe 2 teams I can think of most teams that make it to a SB have a franchise RB and a franchise QB. IMHO we have neither right now. Others, I know, see it differently. But there are many reasons for 2-14 and 4 losing seasons and no one gets a hall pass. If the guy is made of glass and is on the injured report weekly, no matter if he plays or not, that is no one elses fault. That takes away from practice time and game preparation. In fact you don't even have to ditch the guy. If we do Denver's system you can still have Bush as your main guy and have a rested, less banged up Dd as the other back coming in. Probably will be alot more effective. We just paid a big contract for him so more than likely that is what will happen and that is fine by me.

 

[Hottoddie]

Nobody is saying that DD is a franchise back. He's a solid back that can rip off 10-20 yard runs when he's healthy, & when he's given a hole to run through. The Texans were 15th in the rushing game in the NFL last year, while our passing game was 30th & our total offense was ranked 30th. A lot of that has to do with the fact that we allowed 14 more sacks (68 sacks for 424 yards lost) than the next closest team. Improving our passing game will automatically open up our running game. Can you Draft Bush fans honestly say that Bush will help improve the team more than drafting a franchise LT?

Those stats alone, give the "Draft Vince Young" fans a stronger argument than the "Draft Reggie Bush" fans. At least Young could help the team more with his size, ability to throw accurately on the run, & his speed.

Can Bush get us an extra 600-700 yards on the ground next year? That means he'll need to run for 1600-1800 yards. I don't think he can do it.

While DD hasn't always been healthy, he has averaged 118-119 total yards (rush/rec) per game in every game he's played in for the last 2 years. Let's compare his numbers this year to some of the best RB's the NFL had to offer.

DD - 119 ypg
Shaun Alexander - 122 ypg
Tiki Barber - 149 ypg (His best year ever. Averaged 131 ypg the year before)
Larry Johnson - 131 ypg
Clinton Portis - 108 ypg
Edgerrin James - 123 ypg
LaDainian Tomlinson - 115 ypg
Rudi Johnson - 97 ypg

As you can see, he compares favorably to the best in the NFL. Other than his health & lack of breakaway speed, DD is very productive.

I'm firmly in the trade down camp &, while Young has me intrigued, I still believe that trading down & loading up on the big-uglies is the right move for the Texans. If we work our trades just right, we could be in a position next year, to trade up & make a run at Adrian Peterson, if he chooses to come out.

 

[BuffSoldier]

At DE we have Babin, Peek, and Orr that used to play DE so that is not really a desperate need, and there are many servicable and affordable DE's. So that's one need that's blown out of proportion.
At TE we never really used our TEs so we don't really know what we have. Bruener is a premier blocking TE and toward the end Rivers showed alot of potential. So we have two decent TEs. There are a few good TE's in the market we can get, but even if we don't this position is not a great need.
At CB I think Saunders or Sanders did a decent job and has some maturing to do, there is a few CB's in the market, but I think Sanders and Robinson will do well with Buchanon backing them up an upgrade would be nice but not an extreme necessity.
At Tackle I think Wand and Pitts could handle the duties but depth would not hurt.
At safeties you gotta understand that Brown and Earl are extremely young and this yr. will have alot of improvement, getting another rookie would not really be an upgrade here.So after all these assesments and what could be done in FA what I think we'll go into the draft needing is as follows.

ILB or OLB either or
Interior lineman
Safety or CB
Backup tackle

You just want Bush no matter what... I think that you ar trying to justify your argument for some reason instead of telling the truth...

This goes in order of you lighlithed post

... They were drafted as OLB in the 3-4 because they were tweeners, basically a little too small to play DE. Babin is the only one that I think can make the transition back and be succesful

... Bruener is an offensive lineman and Rivers is just plain bad, they are not even serviceable as dual threat TEs Rivers isnt even a threat, having him on the field is basically a liablity, he is slow, has average hadns and cant block.

...Sanders is not an upgrade over Buchanan and would probably be one of the worst starting corners in the NFL.

...I cant believe you even said anything abot Wand. Seth Wand is horrid. He has no reason being on the field unless someone is injured.

...Both of the young safeties are SS. They arent that great anyway.

And last but not least ... if you noticed we went 2-14 last year. We have more holes than you would like to acknowledge, and if I were a free agent then I wouldnt want to come here unless I were payed tuns of money, we wont sign many big name FA and we will still have more holes to fill even if we do trade down.. we will still be a 4-12 team if we dont trade down. Just IMO.

 

[bigTEXan8]

1. Tenn (From Hou); QB Matt Leinert
2. NO; QB Vince Young
3. SF (From Hou); RB Reggie Bush

Where as I like where you are going with this, I doubt SF would take Bush. The 49ers are gitty about Gore, and when Barlow is healthy, is as good as any RB in the league. Besides that, I still think that Bush would go to NO before they take Leinart. JM though.