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When do we end the Kareem experiment?

D

downtownsb

Practice Squad
I have had enough. That last play could havwe cost us a W. How many plays do we let this guy give up before we end this. Very frustrating to watch.
 
I suppose the good coverage he had throughout most of the game (especially on his INT) is all moot? All things considered, I trust Wade's judgement and I think it's pretty clear that KJ has improved a good deal since last season.
 
Unbelievable.

Clearly KJ was the problem today, the one guy that tore us up through the air (Tony.G) was not KJ's responsibility but hey, lets put the potential loss on KJ.
 
downtownsb said:
I have had enough. That last play could havwe cost us a W. How many plays do we let this guy give up before we end this. Very frustrating to watch.
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Totally lucky he didn't cost the team. Again. Dude is the opposite of ball hawk. More like a dick swallow.
 
burro said:
I suppose the good coverage he had throughout most of the game (especially on his INT) is all moot? All things considered, I trust Wade's judgement and I think it's pretty clear that KJ has improved a good deal since last season.
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Seconded. Yeah - he's not all world pro cover, but he has gotten better - especially since last year. Heck, the entire D has improved. In WP we trust.
 
I don't think much of KJ, but slow that last play down - look at it again - KJ got his hand in there just in the nick of time.

KJ made the play.
 
burro said:
I suppose the good coverage he had throughout most of the game (especially on his INT) is all moot? All things considered, I trust Wade's judgement and I think it's pretty clear that KJ has improved a good deal since last season.
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u do realize he was beat on his INT right, thank god the ball was underthrown and the WR had to turn around and run back like 10 yards to try to stop it....haha
 
EVOLVIST said:
I don't think much of KJ, but slow that last play down - look at it again - KJ got his hand in there just in the nick of time.

KJ made the play.
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Can anyone post it on youtube? Shoot, can anybody post the last 8 seconds?Would like to see the ending of the game
 
EVOLVIST said:
I don't think much of KJ, but slow that last play down - look at it again - KJ got his hand in there just in the nick of time.

KJ made the play.
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i have and Julio dropped the ball. KJ had no effect on the play, you may want to watch it again, yeah he got his hand in there the ball was already going towards the ground though.
 
We end it when we get someone better. McCain had a really rough game too. I think we replace Jason Allen with another vet in the post season.
 
The KJ "experiment" will end if/when there is a better player to play the position. Despite a few mistakes KJ has been playing pretty well, and with how much improvement he has been showing this year, it is going to take a pretty darn good player to come in and take his job.
 
EllisUnit said:
u do realize he was beat on his INT right, thank god the ball was underthrown and the WR had to turn around and run back like 10 yards to try to stop it....haha
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We all know you hate KJ. But for argument's sake, have you gone back and looked at every one of Allen's INTs and decided if they were HIS doing or the QB making a bad play, or the defensive line had good pressure?

Tired of people downplaying these things. A sack is a sack, even if you didn't get blocked. A touchdown is a touchdown, even if it wasn't pretty. And an interception is an interception.

There are no asterisks. The ref does not give us the ball 20 yards downfeild
 
jtexas said:
We end it when we get someone better. McCain had a really rough game too. I think we replace Jason Allen with another vet in the post season.
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:wadepalm: only tied for most picks on the team, only stopped a TD pass in the 4th by the falcons.
 
kingh99 said:
Totally lucky he didn't cost the team. Again. Dude is the opposite of ball hawk. More like a dick swallow.
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You think dick is the opposite of ball? I'm not sure what your situation is, but I've always considered the two a tandem.
 
buddyboy said:
We all know you hate KJ. But for argument's sake, have you gone back and looked at every one of Allen's INTs and decided if they were HIS doing or the QB making a bad play, or the defensive line had good pressure?

Tired of people downplaying these things. A sack is a sack, even if you didn't get blocked. A touchdown is a touchdown, even if it wasn't pretty. And an interception is an interception.

There are no asterisks. The ref does not give us the ball 20 yards downfeild
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yeah 3 of allens were good and 1 was a give me, that equals 4 BTW. And Kareems (1) was a give me.
 
Alright - take a look back at the season: how often was KJ abused? How many games did he cost us?

In our 6 game winning streak KJ has played great - every guy makes mistakes and every CB allows some catches. KJ hasn`t allowed a lot of them and hasn`t been out of position a lot. And even the elite guys like Revis and JoJo have broken plays, bad coverage or are out of position sometimes.

KJ will never be Revis - but right now KJ is the guy Kubiak hoped to draft last year. An exceptional good tackler that will get beat now and then but will give the pass rush time and make a challenge for the opposing receivers.

And todays game: he went up against possibly the best WR duo in the league and a pretty decent passer. How many passes did he allow? How many passes did JoJo allow? That last play was closer than I´d ve liked, but he made the play.

KJ looked bad once this season - yeah, once. And that was against the Sainst with possible the 2nd best QB playing right now. Brees made some great throws and the WR ran some great routes - but KJ got beat more than I´d like. But after that game he was one of the better CB in all of football and definetly a worthy #2.
 
Naiirb said:
Kareem completely blew it on the last play, Julio had both hands on the ball and dropped it.
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In a way, I'm glad KJ didn't go after that ball until after Jones touched it. The way the refs were calling against us today, he would have surely been called for pass interference.
 
LikeMike said:
Alright - take a look back at the season: how often was KJ abused? How many games did he cost us?

In our 6 game winning streak KJ has played great - every guy makes mistakes and every CB allows some catches. KJ hasn`t allowed a lot of them and hasn`t been out of position a lot. And even the elite guys like Revis and JoJo have broken plays, bad coverage or are out of position sometimes.

KJ will never be Revis - but right now KJ is the guy Kubiak hoped to draft last year. An exceptional good tackler that will get beat now and then but will give the pass rush time and make a challenge for the opposing receivers.

And todays game: he went up against possibly the best WR duo in the league and a pretty decent passer. How many passes did he allow? How many passes did JoJo allow? That last play was closer than I´d ve liked, but he made the play.

KJ looked bad once this season - yeah, once. And that was against the Sainst with possible the 2nd best QB playing right now. Brees made some great throws and the WR ran some great coverages - but KJ got beat more than I´d like. But after that game he was one of the better CB in all of football and definetly a worthy #2.
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I would rep you but I have to spread.

Since I agree with all of it. I have nothing else to say here.
 
EllisUnit said:
i will drop it but mark my words, his coverage will come back to bite us in the ass, in a game where there is no other game if you dont win.
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Sure sounds like you hope it happens just so you can be right. I hope the Texans win no matter what, regardless if it takes a WR to drop the ball, or if Allen gets 5 interceptions. I root for the Texans, not against players.
 
buddyboy said:
Sure sounds like you hope it happens just so you can be right. I hope the Texans win no matter what, regardless if it takes a WR to drop the ball, or if Allen gets 5 interceptions. I root for the Texans, not against players.
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No i hope it dont happen, but people refuse to see what a liability KJ is, and it will end up biting us in the ass.
 
EVOLVIST said:
I don't think much of KJ, but slow that last play down - look at it again - KJ got his hand in there just in the nick of time.

KJ made the play.
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I dunno. I saw Jones drop the pass and KJ's hand come in after he had already dropped it. Will look at it again, though.
 
GP said:
I dunno. I saw Jones drop the pass and KJ's hand come in after he had already dropped it. Will look at it again, though.
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i have looked at it 100 times and that is what happened, KJ had no impact on the play even though he was standing right beside Julio.
 
EllisUnit said:
i will drop it but mark my words, his coverage will come back to bite us in the ass, in a game where there is no other game if you dont win.
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Right now we have the #1 defense of the NFL - and KJ is a starter on that defense. If I remember correctly we also have the #1 pass defense and KJ is a starter on that defense.

Is that because of the pass rush? The pass rush needs time to get there, the CB need to give them the time. Last year they (including KJ) didn`t - this year they (including KJ) do.

Is it then because of the safety help? A little, sure? Last year our safeties sucked in coverage this year they are pretty good. But I don`t remember them helping KJ out all the time. And really, the best CBs usually have some good safeties to help out.

KJ was pathetic for the most part of last season. This season a lot of people only look for mistakes because they`ve already made up their mind about him. Give him a chance and look at him the same way you look at Allen our even JoJo.

You want an example of the subjective nature of judging him? How many jokes about him falling down do we hear regularly? When did he last fell down?
 
LikeMike said:
Right now we have the #1 defense of the NFL - and KJ is a starter on that defense. If I remember correctly we also have the #1 pass defense and KJ is a starter on that defense.

Is that because of the pass rush? The pass rush needs time to get there, the CB need to give them the time. Last year they (including KJ) didn`t - this year they (including KJ) do.

Is it then because of the safety help? A little, sure? Last year our safeties sucked in coverage this year they are pretty good. But I don`t remember them helping KJ out all the time. And really, the best CBs usually have some good safeties to help out.

KJ was pathetic for the most part of last season. This season a lot of people only look for mistakes because they`ve already made up their mind about him. Give him a chance and look at him the same way you look at Allen our even JoJo.

You want an example of the subjective nature of judging him? How many jokes about him falling down do we hear regularly? When did he last fell down?
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If u watch the games u will see that allen is in on 50% of the the plays, KJAC and allen switch in and out a lot. KJac is not in the same league as JoJo.
 
EllisUnit said:
i have looked at it 100 times and that is what happened, KJ had no impact on the play even though he was standing right beside Julio.
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He was watching the play, like he was a paying customer who had the best seat in the house. LOL.

I had my hands on top of my head, jaw dropped, eyes bugged out. I couldn't even talk for about 5 seconds after the play was over. I just was frozen in that position, in a mini-coma from the shock of how Julio Jones dropped the pass and KJ had zero impact on the play. Zero.
 
Yeah, they switch in and out because they play about at the same level and stay fresh this way. I never said he plays the same level as JoJo. Jojo is a beast and a top5 CB in the league. KJ is slightly above average and somewhere around the top 30-40 CB in the league.

I just say: whenever KJ makes a mistake a lot of guys go out very vocally and say: he sucks, cut him, end the experiment. Now he didn`t make a lot of mistakes the last 6 weeks so we didn`t hear a lot about this, but today because he ALMOST allowed a last second catch (after playing pretty decent before) the discussion starts again.

But when a guy like JoJo makes a mistake (he was burned in the 1st quarter as well, and he allowed a couple of other catches) we don`t hear much criticism because we know how good he is.

Now just believe, that KJ isn`t that bad as you think. He is decent. Not a #1 CB but a more than serviceable #2CB. About as good as Allen (Allen makes the INTs, KJ makes the big tackles in run support and ST) but still a couple of years younger.

KJ was part of the problem last year. KJ is part of the success this year.
 
GP said:
He was watching the play, like he was a paying customer who had the best seat in the house. LOL.

I had my hands on top of my head, jaw dropped, eyes bugged out. I couldn't even talk for about 5 seconds after the play was over. I just was frozen in that position, in a mini-coma from the shock of how Julio Jones dropped the pass and KJ had zero impact on the play. Zero.
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yeah i know, i think some people didnt see that play and are just chimming in, oh well we got luck we won. And we are 9-3 so i'll take it, but i still feel KJACs coverage will come back to bite us in a game that REALLY REALLY matters.
 
LikeMike said:
KJ was part of the problem last year. KJ is part of the success this year.
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Exactly. While he isn't a great CB, he is doing much better than last year. If he keeps improving, he might be a great CB. I see no sense in still being mad at him for his pathetic play last year. That's last year, and this is a new year and we got the number 1 defense in the NFL. Still.
 
LikeMike said:
Yeah, they switch in and out because they play about at the same level and stay fresh this way. I never said he plays the same level as JoJo. Jojo is a beast and a top5 CB in the league. KJ is slightly above average and somewhere around the top 30-40 CB in the league.

I just say: whenever KJ makes a mistake a lot of guys go out very vocally and say: he sucks, cut him, end the experiment. Now he didn`t make a lot of mistakes the last 6 weeks so we didn`t hear a lot about this, but today because he ALMOST allowed a last second catch (after playing pretty decent before) the discussion starts again.

But when a guy like JoJo makes a mistake (he was burned in the 1st quarter as well, and he allowed a couple of other catches) we don`t hear much criticism because we know how good he is.

Now just believe, that KJ isn`t that bad as you think. He is decent. Not a #1 CB but a more than serviceable #2CB. About as good as Allen (Allen makes the INTs, KJ makes the big tackles in run support and ST) but still a couple of years younger.

KJ was part of the problem last year. KJ is part of the success this year.
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Great post, I agree with a lot of it. I think KJ and Allen are around the same level and I love the combination we've been using recently.

The improvement that KJ has made this year is lightyears away from where he was last year, imagine if he can continue to improve at this rate. We as fans have to remember he's a second yearp layer
 
If KJ was playing poorly we'd be seeing him a lot more often. Aside from his pick, and a big hit to break up a play (on a guy he wasn't even covering), and that hail mary, I didn't see Jackson often. Was pretty happy with that.
 
downtownsb said:
I have had enough. That last play could havwe cost us a W. How many plays do we let this guy give up before we end this. Very frustrating to watch.
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Woulda Coulda Shoulda ...... and if frog a woulda had wings they wouldnt bump their ass when they hop.


Jackson had a pretty solid day as did the entire defense giving up just .... 10 points to an offense who threw the ball 40+ times today.
 
buddyboy said:
Great post, I agree with a lot of it. I think KJ and Allen are around the same level and I love the combination we've been using recently.

The improvement that KJ has made this year is lightyears away from where he was last year, imagine if he can continue to improve at this rate. We as fans have to remember he's a second yearp layer
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I think the improvement of the defense as a whole is why a lot of people say "I think KJ has improved from last year."

No pass rush last year, subpar LB play, and a weak Safety (Pollard) against the pass meant the CBs had to play up a little bit...and they didn't. Now we have a pass rush, we have a real safety (Manning) and a real d-coord (Phillips), and a true #1 CB to play against teams' best WR; it all means KJ's ineffectiveness gets masked a little bit better.

That last play, IMO, is the crux of the KJ problem--A bit slow to make a play when it's a deeper pass thrown on him. Good at the shallow stuff, don't get me wrong, but long passes seem to be his downfall a lot.

I give him credit, though: Makes sure tackles in the run game, held onto his interception today, and played pretty good overall.
 
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downtownsb said:
I have had enough. That last play could havwe cost us a W. How many plays do we let this guy give up before we end this. Very frustrating to watch.
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Atlanta averages 23.5 ppg. Today they got 10.
Matty Ice averages a 62.4 % percentage. Today he was around 43%.
He averages 7.33 yards a pass completion, today he got 5.8.
His typical QB rating is 89.3. Today it was 52.7.

KJ had 1 pass deflection and 1 INT. Was he a superstar? No. Did he play poorly? nope.

Sorry, your argument falls flat on its face. Next time use stats, not emotion.
 
Facts are the defense only gave up 10 pts against a very high powered offense.

KJ didn't have a good game today. But he's so much better than he was last yr. Atleast he didn't allow any huge game changing plays.
 
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