JDizzle
I'm a dude
Unreal. Let's give Carr some credit when AJ bails him out by winning a jump ball and then blast AJ when he loses one and forget who threw the crappy pass to begin with. Fantastic.
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What's with the Carr bashing...
- Thread starter texan279
- Start date
Unreal. Let's give Carr some credit when AJ bails him out by winning a jump ball and then blast AJ when he loses one and forget who threw the crappy pass to begin with. Fantastic.
R
real
Guest
Don't be a Carr Hater the reason we lost was the whole teams fault we should have made the first down on our last drive but it was not in all Carr's fault, our offense just could not do the job and in the end our defense could not hold. That to me is everyone to blame not just Carr.
That'd be cool if all players were equal....
bad
Waterboy
Wow.
I'll be the first to admit that Carr has many faults as a QB and they've all been dissected ad nauseum here, but I think this is the first time I've seen anyone question his stones.
That's just reaching. Carr is one tough S.O.B. - it's maybe his best quality.
Remember the game where he came back from that shoulder injury?
Remember him running over that DB last week?
Remember him getting sacked and getting up time after time after time after time...
I guess you don't.
It's valid to question his football I.Q., his leadership skills, hell his arm even - but wussy?
Nah.
Texanfan4ever
Rookie
I was close to posting, but I'm not going to expend the energy to have the same argument that has been going on here for years. Silly.....
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Let David suit up as a DB.... Cause then you could blame him for consecutive 83 yard bombs and giving up a game winning drive. All versus a very bad and injured offense in the Bills.
Let me get this straight. Your not a Carr supporter or basher.
You just want to win. How can a mistake by Cook, that cost us points not just as bad or worse than any mistake Carr made yesterday. You people kill me. Is this not a team game. How about Dre's mistakes. I keep hearing how fast he is but haven't seen him get behind the defenders once this year. Is that Carrs fault as well. i have suffured through the Oilers and will continue to suffer through the Texans in the hope that next week we can do better. I am a Carr supporter and the loss against Tenn I will put soley on him. This is an absolute team loss. Now, how about Cook not protecting the ball. That was a big gain and should have ended with points. How is that Carrs fault, because it was a short pass to begin with. PLEASE!!!
K
kingh99
Guest
You throw enough dink crap and someone will knock the ball out eventually. That was the game plan against the Oilers back in the day. The opposing defenses would let the Oiler do their worst (best) between the 20's but always had an answer in the red zone or with us backed up and needing a punt for good field position. Eventually the drive breaks down when you take 20 plays to move it downfield.
Cook fumbled because he can't protect the ball. He as both arms underneath the ball. By the way I noticed that you didn't post anything after the game last week. If you want V Young, go to Tenn. If Carr has a good do you come in here and talk about it. I doubt it. Once the ball is caught, 4 yards past the LOS it's out of the QB's hands.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
2 lost fumbles - in key situations on only 21 touches for the season, is not acceptable - irrespective of the offense....
R
real
Guest
Well if you're arguing my logic, you argue the logic of Kubiak and pretty much everybody that knows anything about football....
Kubiak has publicly stated, "the team goes how the QB goes".....
Cook is a mediocre player....As a fan you shouldn't expect Cook, or Faggins to be the stars of the team and make crunch time plays....Now I'm not exscusing their mistakes...they shouldn't have been made...
BUT...
You should be able to expect your QB, the first overall pick, to be able to hit a slant....
We should expect David Carr to be able to perform in the clutch....He hasn't...
R
real
Guest
You're right it's not acceptable...But go start a thread about it and watch how fast it falls to page 2 and then into oblivion never to be seen again....
Carr is more important to this team than Cook....
But really how can you put it on one guy. I see your point and I know that he hasn't really produced when it counts. But, how can you produce when the recievers/backs fumble. That is were my confusion is. The slant pass was a bit high but AJ should have caught it. He just released from his man too late.
Carr is the kind of QB that will require a solid defense to protect close leads. Unfortunately, we are far from having that kind of defense.
I don't see him as a QB that can take a game on his shoulders to win it. But I think he can be good enough not to lose games for us, too. Is he worth the money paid to him? Probably not under these conditions and what we get in return. But this is why he takes so much heat. We can't get other players when we have so much invested in so few.
But yesterday was a team meltdown and a team loss. I can't blame one player for it.
I don't see him as a QB that can take a game on his shoulders to win it. But I think he can be good enough not to lose games for us, too. Is he worth the money paid to him? Probably not under these conditions and what we get in return. But this is why he takes so much heat. We can't get other players when we have so much invested in so few.
But yesterday was a team meltdown and a team loss. I can't blame one player for it.
K
kingh99
Guest
If you are Carson Palmer and Andre Johnson you don't find yourself checking off to the lousy FB because you can make the throw.
R
real
Guest
I never put anything on one guy....
A lot of players probably made mistakes....And those players who's mistakes aren't worth their contract either get cut or sent to the bench....
Meaning...I'm not worried about cook, or Faggins.....If they don't improve I know they will be gone in a heartbeat and no one would blink....
We are talking about our QB, the most important person on offense if not the whole team....His lack of production when we need it is a problem...
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Very few that I read blame him for the loss, I certainly do not. What there is a lot of strewn across this board is what we get out of his contract. He is an overpaid QB. I would have zero problem with his perfromance if we paid him 3-4 million dollars.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I could give rats ***** about Cook. Point was he is paid as a professional and has fumbled twice in critical situations, and yet the haters fail to see that as one in many reasons for this team to lose... NOT just the QB position.... The Defense was horrible yesterday... Period. Where are all the people that were just high fiving each other last week? I understand they are improving and I love Ryans, and I'm cool with Williams, but the defense stunk it up.
That is not the QB's fault whether it is DC, Joe Montana, Sammy Baugh or Dave Ragone.... None of them could have done ANYTHING about the position the Texans were put in yesterday because of the D and because of a critical fumble inside the freakin' 10 yard line.
The Texans were down 17-7 and came back to take the lead at 21-17.... Hey D - How about stop somebody.... It's JP Losman for crying out loud....
R
real
Guest
Add me to that list.
If Carr were a third rd. pick whom I had little expectations of, I don't think the discussion is this heated....
But I'll flip it around....
If Carr were a third rd. pick would you guys still be defending him ?
or would you be ready to draft a QB in the first rd. next year ??????
Again how can you produce when your receivers/backs fumble or have the ball stripped away. How do you continue to trust those guys. The funny think is, Houston is about the only ones bashing Carr. Everyone sees alot of improvment from the previous years.
I want to win as much as anyone else, but I know that this is a process. I want to win now, but without a win I'll take improvement and competitiveness. We won 2 games last year and we will win at least 2-3 more this year. When the TEAM improves everyone looks good. I will watch the games and continue to root for David/Andre/Cook or whoever else is out there.
I want to win as much as anyone else, but I know that this is a process. I want to win now, but without a win I'll take improvement and competitiveness. We won 2 games last year and we will win at least 2-3 more this year. When the TEAM improves everyone looks good. I will watch the games and continue to root for David/Andre/Cook or whoever else is out there.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
And they scored the only TD of the second half for the Texans. The offense needs to pick it up as the D has been keeping this team in games this year.
K
kingh99
Guest
read my tagline for my answer. I will repeat what I just wrote in the Kubiak's fault thread. You gotta step outside yourself and make a play every once in a while. The thing we will never get from David Carr is a quote such as: "Coach called to pass to Andre for the 1st down but I saw he was covered tight and faked like I was going to run up the middle, stopped and threw to Owen coming across the middle. It was beautful. Meanwhile Coach chimes in, yes that was a good fast read by David and he didn't bail. He thought on his feet not with his feet."
kcwilson
Rookie
Exactly. I think a lot of people see the improvement around the country. The problem is that they expect us to lose, so we get glossed over. Football is still a team game and the team needs to make imporvements.
We must rely on coaching to get us to that point. To date, I think the coaching has made great progress in bringing the talent along. The talent needs to be more disciplined and that is an area to focus on the next six games.
You can replay the whole game and point out things that we could have done different, but the fact is that we didn't. Love em or leave em, I think that we are on the right path.
R
real
Guest
Just because it's talked about more after a loss than it is after a win doesn't make it any less of a problem....
I haven't seen one post saying that the Cook fumble didn't hurt us...I haven't seen one post that says it's o.k to make mistakes....
What I have seen is a lot of blind love and loyalty for a guy that has yet to string together good performances and make it become the norm instead of a rare occurrence....
This is the last time I'll say this....Yes the cook fumble hurt us....BUT cook is not an intricate part of the grand design...David Carr is...Cook may not be here next year....So why would we sit around and discuss those fumbles other than to say how much he sucks....We are all in agreeance that Cook does not need the ball in crunch time.....
What some have a hard time seeing is that Our FUTURE rest with Carr....Meaning his play and development is more important than freakin Jameel Cook....
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Because we are the few, the brave, to watch this disaster.
Just watch video of Carr the last five years. Tell me something he is doing differently or improved upon and how it has had a successful impact on the team's performance. Don't bother, because it ain't there. People who do not improve via behavior, extra skill sets and/or results in the business world do not scale (promotions, raises, extensions). This game is not tied to him, his behavior (play on the field) and his results are who he is and not what we pay for.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I'm am not defending Carr, because he's Carr. I am defending the QB position on this team that has NEVER, been given a chance to succeed until this year with the acquisition of Moulds, drafting of Owen Daniels, credible coach and improving line play (although still a long way to go here).
The haters will come back and say, "But now he has those tools and better coaching, etc."... Thats true, but its been 10 games in a new system (the 4th system in 5 years) that dictates a lot of underneath routes and ball control from shorter routes with potentially have receivers break for long ganers (see Bill Walsh - and the W/C offense)....
No one, first, second, third or fourth rounder would have succeeded...
R
real
Guest
You failed to answer my question....
If Carr had been a third rd. pick, would you be ready to grab a QB in the draft this year ?
My guess is that you would....
You would look at his performance, and say to yourself that we need more out of that position....meaning that if you honestly judged Carr from a performance standpoint your patience wouldn't be as long...
But since Carr was picked in the first, you all think he will eventually reach his "potential"....
whatever that is...
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Did you watch the game? The defense scored the go-ahead TD and the offense responded by punting out the remainder of the game. JP Losman threw more TD's for us than Carr did. Anytime your offense performs that poorly the QB position will - and should - get criticized.
K
kingh99
Guest
Should have never had to throw that dink crap. Carr's arm is mush. He can throw tied up as a pretzel like nobody's business. That part we aren't questioning. The part we question is his ability to look like an NFL QB. Excuse me for wanting a drop back passer. Do you watch the games? Carr is a garbage man. He throws garbage completions. Elway rolling out and throwing 40 yards downfield does not equal Carr rolling out and throwing 8 yards in the flat. Elway play = excitement. Carr play = garbage that a lot of guys could do.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Actually he is good for traffic because everyone leaves early. The fact that there were still people in the seats, in my opinion, is because we actually have faith in the defense to make a play.
K
kingh99
Guest
You think David is looking at his completion record this morning and doing that little head sway he does?
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Zing!
R
real
Guest
I don't know why it has to be taken to that extreme...
How come "carr bashers" just can't expect more from a guy who should be producing more? This last game aside....
Forget about the Wins and Losses......
R
real
Guest
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I thought I did answer your question, but maybe the posts got outta sync:
In other words.. NO I would not draft another QB if Carr were a third round pick.... Since I have a coach known for developing QB's I would keep him, look at his "OVERALL" performance (which Kubiak should consider a rookie campaign) and further develop him...
R
real
Guest
I have a really hard time believing that...
Your faith in our defense in yesterdays game was obviously misplaced because like Carr and AJ, none of them made a play at the end of the game.
R
real
Guest
The reason I have a hard time believing that is because as a third rd. pick, most would think that Carr had reached his ceiling...
But because he was a first rd. pick, we assume he's got some untapped potential....
We stuck with Carr not because he was doing good....We stuck with him because we expected him to get better....
Why? ............Potential.......
If he were a third rounder would you "expect" much more ? no....
That's why you'd be looking for a new QB....
But because he was a first rd. pick, we assume he's got some untapped potential....
We stuck with Carr not because he was doing good....We stuck with him because we expected him to get better....
Why? ............Potential.......
If he were a third rounder would you "expect" much more ? no....
That's why you'd be looking for a new QB....
R
real
Guest
Why is this a defense vs offense.....Carr vs. A.J discussion ???
The thread is about Carr, and Carr "bashing".....
Carr gets bashed and rightfully so...
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Bingo!! We have a winner.
I have stated this approximately 2000 times, but here goes again. I am NOT "a blind love for Carr" person. I had absolutely no problems with his benching... Actually think he needed that a few years ago, but Capers didn't have the sack to do it.
The only people that have blinders on - are the Carr haters. You hate, without prejudice everything that is Carr..
I truly do look at the QB position and wonder if its all Carrs fault.... The more I look and try to evaluate, it is NOT the play of the QB position alone... I would evaluate the same whether it was David, Sage, or Brett Favre.
Do y'all honestly think if anyone other than Carr was the quarterback yesterday, we would have won that game?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
They kept us in the game with rookies, journeyman and a lack of sheer talent. No one has made excuses for them because they give us effort and have showed improvement all over the place. As far as AJ and Carr are concerned, in my opinion, we are limiting AJ with Carr behind center.
R
real
Guest
Im not a Carr hater Bill...I could probably go back and find many post in which I've defended the guy....
But to blindly act as if Carr doesn't have his faults is mind boggling...
If you keep blaming someone else for Carr's mediocre to poor performances the blame will go on forever...Where does the buck stop ?
But to blindly act as if Carr doesn't have his faults is mind boggling...
If you keep blaming someone else for Carr's mediocre to poor performances the blame will go on forever...Where does the buck stop ?
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Excellent post. I think it really sums up the entire situation right now.
As for Carr getting a lot of the heat, this is an accumulation over the entire season and the last 4 1/2 years, not just one game.
Let's keep this in mind, the West Coast Offense takes that 3-2 pass play as a running play. Kubiak called a play that used his two best players on offense and gave them an easy opportunity to win the game. Just like that gutsy 4 down call the week before, he gave the offense, and in particular, his two best players, a chance to prove they can deliver.
Considering what the defense was showing, that play should have been an easy completion. It looked like to me that Carr and Johnson were not on the same page. Probably the blame should be spread between both of them on that play. It just looks like they don't work together enough to make that type of play automatic, which should be automatic for how much money they make between them, which is DB's point above.
However, I think Carr needs Johnson a lot more than Johnson needs Carr. I think AJ could put up similar numbers if not better without Carr. Carr, on the other hand, I am not so sure.
Kubiak gave Carr and Johnson an easy opportunity to show that their tandem is important part of the team, and they failed! Having said that, other players and coaches failed as well.
JDizzle
I'm a dude
The defense scored our only TD in the 2nd half.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
They also couldn't stop anybody when it really counted...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Yeah, I think a lot of other QB's could have won that game or completed that 3-2 pass in the 4th quarter to seal the game.
The offense only scored two TDs and no points in the second half despite Carr throwing 22 straight completions and a very nice running game. For one reason or another, this offense can't score quality points, which is the point of the game.
You believe it is more systematic of the team than Carr, but a lot people don't see it that way. And just because they do see Carr as the main problem, doesn't make them a "Carr hater". That is just an overused term to label someone without really discussing the problem.
It is an honest question to ask if Carr is really apart of the solution considering all the opportunities he has had. I don't care about the answer, but it is a reasonable question nonetheless.