I don't want Young here anymore. Period. After the Rose Bowl game I did, but now, I don't. If he gets drafted here instead of someone else (I don't even like Bush all that much, either), then it will be a clear indication that this franchise is focused on making money and not winning games. Before the Rose Bowl, we had basically committed to Carr. Reeves, Casserly, and McNair all expressed their interest in signing his extension and bringing him in here for at least 2 more years. Reeves, a respsected talent coordinator that worked with many great QBs (Elway) evaluated Carr and said that he was a good QB for the future. Now, with all these Longhorn homers who are praising VY as the messiah making such a huge ruckus, the press could be so bad for the Texans if we don't draft VY that the seats won't be filled come opening day. I think that is total BS. We have to be dedicated to winning, and have to avoid the hype. If we have an answer at QB (separately evaluated by 3 people) then drafting a home-town hero to fill the seats is a sell-out money making scheme and I will lose a lot of respect for this classy organization
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What it could mean for the crediblility of the Texans if we draft Young
- Thread starter gtexan02
- Start date
GP
Go Texans!
To me, the thing that has been rubbing me wrong is this idea that the ownership is somehow OBLIGATED to take a certain player because that's what the fans want.
Absurd.
If they take Young, and especially if it was because of the outcry of fans, I'm going deeper into depression.
This team has an obligation to field the most competitive team it can, not to field the team with hometown players or who the "fans want" just to make more money.
Like I said, all Young did Wednesday night in Pasadena was to muddy the water of what had been a pretty clear body of water in terms of draft picks. And like I also said, it makes me almost wish that USC had blown them out so this whole mess never happened.
1. What QB in the NFL operates from the shotgun every play?
2. What QB in the NFL rushes the ball as much as Young has?
3. What QB could withstand the shaky o line we had, and the poor coaching we had?
We are in position to acquire even more draft picks for trading the No. 1 pick, and it would go along with the other top picks we have in this draft class. AND we still get a quality player at No. 3 or No. 4, and maybe even at No. 5.
But the fans want_____________.
Priceless.
Absurd.
If they take Young, and especially if it was because of the outcry of fans, I'm going deeper into depression.
This team has an obligation to field the most competitive team it can, not to field the team with hometown players or who the "fans want" just to make more money.
Like I said, all Young did Wednesday night in Pasadena was to muddy the water of what had been a pretty clear body of water in terms of draft picks. And like I also said, it makes me almost wish that USC had blown them out so this whole mess never happened.
1. What QB in the NFL operates from the shotgun every play?
2. What QB in the NFL rushes the ball as much as Young has?
3. What QB could withstand the shaky o line we had, and the poor coaching we had?
We are in position to acquire even more draft picks for trading the No. 1 pick, and it would go along with the other top picks we have in this draft class. AND we still get a quality player at No. 3 or No. 4, and maybe even at No. 5.
But the fans want_____________.
Priceless.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
I completely agree with you on this one. It was one damn game and it is like he is the greatest thing ever. I own too much Texans stuff in my house for them to draft a guy for popularity reasons. Where were these dog gone fans after the 11 attempts for 19 yards against Texas A&M, and his 13 for 24 for 162 yards against the worst defense in the nation? Thats what I wanna know? Where were yall? You make me want to throw up. Is Bush the answer? Probably not at first, but carr is there, and now these people are turning on him, when all season long these same people were saying it was the O line, not him. I knew this crap was going to happen if they won the game. VY is a talent, but not an NFL QB. I cant wait till Bush is drafted, so these morons will shut up. I will become some other fan of another team if they draft VY for popularity reasons. Draft Bush and use him for everything he has to offer or trade. Please Texans, dont give into these stupid people and their opinion, of the only football game they watched this entire season.gtexan02 said:
SBTexans08
Rookie
It's sad but true............for most...it was the only game they saw all season.uhcougar08 said:
MorKnolle
All Pro
Htown34s said:
Before this year Vince didn't prove very much at all. He had a very good year this year, but I don't know where this "three amazing years" argument is coming from that I've seen throughout the boards. In a way I agree that if the team drafts Vince it will somewhat damage their credibility, unless Vince somehow completely changes his throwing ability and his skills at reading defenses in the next couple months and proves that he is clearly the best player for this team, but if they do pick Vince based mainly on appeasing the local fans and media, then it will be a shame.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
The only real problem that I have with all the hype is when they put down Carr, who has taken hit after hit and put up with dropped pass after dropped pass. He also had to put up with a coaching staff that stifled his play in several ways, the most recently uncovered of which was not letting him call his own plays.
Not saying that he has proven that he is a stud, but he really hasn't had a chance to prove it and I don't care how long it's been. He still hasn't been protected and had the right receivers on the field.
Not saying that he has proven that he is a stud, but he really hasn't had a chance to prove it and I don't care how long it's been. He still hasn't been protected and had the right receivers on the field.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
My whole point, is I am amazed how everyone jumped on the bandwagon from one single game.
Atleast I jumped on Reggie Bush's Bandwagon after his frosh season, see my point.
It is a shame that we live in a world that is a "what have you done for me lately" attitude.
Reggie has been amazing fro three strait years, not a couple of games, and yes I did say VY was amazing in one game.
Atleast I jumped on Reggie Bush's Bandwagon after his frosh season, see my point.
It is a shame that we live in a world that is a "what have you done for me lately" attitude.
Reggie has been amazing fro three strait years, not a couple of games, and yes I did say VY was amazing in one game.
HJam72 said:
Since when within a 4 year period can you not show "potential"?!. No one is putting down Carr but the guy is not Franchise QB material, doesn't mean he can't contribute - somewhere else- but I don't think it's working out here.
Reggie and Vince , wee're coming to get ya.
Trade Carr.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
Dennis007 said:Since when within a 4 year period can you not show "potential"?!. No one is putting down Carr but the guy is not Franchise QB material, doesn't mean he can't contribute - somewhere else- but I don't think it's working out here.
Reggie and Vince , wee're coming to get ya.
Trade Carr.
Why are you so high on Vince?
Htown34s
Waterboy
uhcougar08 said:
OK, well that is more of a legitimate concern. But before the Rose Bowl VY was almost certain to stay for his Senior season. I have been following VY since he declared for UT and was awestruck by him since his first start at QB for the Longhorns. He has amazed me literally dozens of times over the past 3 years. I have been singing his praises for a long, long time. I wrote this on this board back in early November:
Htown34s said:
I have watched football for 30 years. The only player who ever got me excited to watch was Earl Campbell...until Vince Young. If we draft him and he does well he will become a legend in Houston for generations. This chance does not come around very often.
Vince will become a force to be reckoned with in the NFL. I am sure of it.
Yeah hes had 4 years, with a picket fence of an oline, a fragil RB who plays 2 games then disappears for 1. ONE receiving threat. No TE. No defense, even though they drafted, traded, and wasted FA money on worthless talent. Play calling and coaching were horrid. Im not making excuses for Carr but these are legitament reasons the man hasent been able to assert himself as "The Franchise". He has proven something VY hasnt in the pros, that no matter how hard you hit him, he gets up and fights. Alot of QB's would ***** and throw a fit yet he keeps smiling and goes back to work.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
Dennis007 said:Because I am tired of being at the bottom of the barrel with David.
You should be too.
So, your saying the O-Line is great. If you are, go ahead back VY, yall will need help together.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
Htown34s said:
What about Reggie Bush? He's not exciting?
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
jmlockett said:
I like the idea of the poll but the problem with that particular one is that it has too many goofy scenarios as options--i.e. Drafting Bush and Young which aint gonna happen.
BTW, as to the entire tone of the thread, there are people who think that VY is an appropriate choice for a #1 pick, that his college stats are commensurate with a first pick QB, and that he has even more upside from that what his college potential shows. And that the popularity of such a pick in Houston would just be a plus factor but not the determinate factor.
Reasonable minds can disagree on who to pick, but there is no reason to cast aspersions on the motives of people who don't share your own opinion.
In other words, not all people who like the thought of VY in a Texans uniform are just popularity-addled, one-game influenced, brokeback mountainy, orangeblooded, mancrushers. There might be a few of those, but I don't think everyone is, and most certainly a legitimate case can be made that VY will make an excellent NFL QB and is a legit #1 pick.
Though I will admit to wanting a pair of Texans uniform looking Vince Young pajamas. That would be genius marketing.
SportsJunkie
Practice Squad
FRANCHISE quarterbacks very rarely come into your possession.
Running backs are hit or miss, see Cedric Benson. Heck, Denver routinely turns 4th rounders into All-pros.
I heard Mike Holmgren on the Dan Patrick show a week ago say that it would be awful hard to pass on a chance to acquire a "franchise quarterback" and pick a running back instead.
It was so obvious in the Rose Bowl that BOTH VY and Matt Leinert effect the game much more any running back.
I though Reggie Bush was the 4th best player in the game.
Running backs are hit or miss, see Cedric Benson. Heck, Denver routinely turns 4th rounders into All-pros.
I heard Mike Holmgren on the Dan Patrick show a week ago say that it would be awful hard to pass on a chance to acquire a "franchise quarterback" and pick a running back instead.
It was so obvious in the Rose Bowl that BOTH VY and Matt Leinert effect the game much more any running back.
I though Reggie Bush was the 4th best player in the game.
Htown34s
Waterboy
uhcougar08 said:
Sure, he has some exciting and very acrobatic plays. But he has had off games this year. He has only carried the ball 20 or more times twice this year. Think about that. And that was college.
Heck it could be argued that VY was the better rusher. They both have played 3 years, but VY has more yardage than Bush 3127 to 3087 and way more rushing TD's than Bush 37 to 24.
Its silly to comare those stats, but people that think VY just showed up for one game are even more silly.
Finally, you have to admit that the QB position is more important than RB. He is the leader. He touched the ball every snap. The entire offense flows through him. Bush has had some game changing runs, but VY has led many, many game changing drives.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
Did you also watch as they gave him only 13 carries and he flipped into the endzone on his TD?
Did you see that, no because your brain washed like the rest of these VY homers.
Did you see that, no because your brain washed like the rest of these VY homers.
Nighthawk
Rookie
NOBODY wants Vince Young because it might sell more tickets and merchandise. That's your straw man.
People think it's possible Vince Young is a once-in-a-lifetime prospect, so talented that to pass on him is to miss the biggest opportunity this franchise has ever had.
People want him because he is best for the franchise. He has FAR MORE potential than Carr ever had, and certainly, more than Carr has now that he has shown us FOUR YEARS of what he's got. Some think that he may be better than Carr RIGHT NOW (I'll spare you the comparison).
People think it's time to look elsewhere and it's a lucky break that Young has become available. Fate.
Yes, he's from Houston, but if he were from Pittsburg or Atlanta we'd still want him with the number one pick. The ONLY reason you did not hear about it before is that he was thought to be staying in school.
And while I am a Houston native, I am not (and never have been) a UT fan.
People think it's possible Vince Young is a once-in-a-lifetime prospect, so talented that to pass on him is to miss the biggest opportunity this franchise has ever had.
People want him because he is best for the franchise. He has FAR MORE potential than Carr ever had, and certainly, more than Carr has now that he has shown us FOUR YEARS of what he's got. Some think that he may be better than Carr RIGHT NOW (I'll spare you the comparison).
People think it's time to look elsewhere and it's a lucky break that Young has become available. Fate.
Yes, he's from Houston, but if he were from Pittsburg or Atlanta we'd still want him with the number one pick. The ONLY reason you did not hear about it before is that he was thought to be staying in school.
And while I am a Houston native, I am not (and never have been) a UT fan.
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
Htown34s said:
By the way, we have a QB and a sorry a** line and a broken Running Back, can you tell me who our great playmakers are besides AJ?
BigBull17 said:
Even in his worst years, you can see Greatness in BretFavre, Steve Young, Peyton Manning, John Elway, etc....
uhcougar08
SHSUKATS08
Nighthawk said:
Why is he now, a GREAT prospect, three weeks ago, he was a guy who had to come back to college to gain more experience, now he is a savior. Explain to me what greatness he had against TEXAS A&M?
If you can answer this question, I will never ever down play VY again?
You will probably say something about his performance against the 77th ranked D in college football, he sucks, get over it.
Heres to VY breaking his leg on his first NFL play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck VY, your going to need it.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Htown34s said:
People keep saying Vince had a stellar three seasons. Yes he had a very good year this year, yes he had a good Rose Bowl last year, but what else? His passing stats for his freshman and sophomore years were not even average. He had a 30-2 career record, but Leinart had a 34-1 record and put up better passing stats this year, not to mention had much better passing numbers the previous two years. I was merely pointing out that his statistics from his first two years do not prove much of anything, and people keep saying he had three phenomenal college seasons as a cornerstone of their argument for him (before you mention it, no Bush did not have three statistically phenomenal seasons either, I never have said and will never say that he did, I'm not in the Bush camp, but I'm not in the Vince camp either). The next concrete thing that people keep bringing up (at least that I hear on the radio) is that Vince has "it". They don't know what "it" is, but they can "see it in his eyes" or whatever and that, in their mind, makes him like Joe Montana. I'm just saying that so much of what people are saying "proves" that Young (or Bush for that matter) are going to be instant hall of famers is completely a matter of their opinion and is nothing concrete or substantially proven in any measurable form, and that many of those such arguments could equally as logically be said about Bush or Young. There are no solid, concrete facts that prove one is better than the other, or else there would not be this argument in the first place, and despite what some of you may think you will not be able to prove that one is better for this team than the other. State your opinions, but all I ask is that everyone please at least try to come up with some sort of substantive reasoning that somehow differentiates one draft candidate from the other and that can actually be defined and measured (i.e. none of this "he has 'it' and therefore is the man" or that Vince will instantly sell a bunch more tickets and the stands will be empty if we don't get him and everyone will hate the team talk that has filled the Houston radiowaves). Present your case, how you think it would be more beneficial to the team, and read other's opinions with the same open mind that you want them to read yours. This debate is already escalated beyond what I could have possibly imagined, and we still have three solid months before the draft. This entire argument is a matter of personal opinion, and when it comes down to decision time on April 29, there are only a few opinions that are going to matter: Bob McNair, Charlie Casserly, new head coach (likely Gary Kubiak), and maybe Dan Reeves.
uhcougar08 said:
Whoa... I forgot about that flip. Forget Young, I'm backing Bush now.
jacquescas
Veteran
Nighthawk name a rookie QB who came in and dominated that wasn't already on a playoff caliber roster (Brady and Rothelessburger)
NFL history goes to show that the QB position takes about a year before you can start and then another year before you are comfortable. So Carr or vetran would be our QB for roughly the next year and a half while VY continues to learn the offense.
Trading Carr will not be easy and getting decent value for him will be even harder.
Alot of Vince's speed will be neutralized at the next level because the game is just faster at the college level, he will not be able to simply burn for 200 yards in a game. He doesn't have Vick type speed and agility (Bush comes close though) He does have 5 inches on Vick and 30+ pounds so he has the ability to be a better passer than Vick has shown in 5 years, but he will not have that game breaking speed, so its a trade off. His throwing mechanic is more awkward than's Carr's was coming out and he spends alot of time in the shotgun. putting Carr in the Drew Brees role could lead to the same results, the maturation of Carr then the decision of trading the unknown or trading the new star. And if he doesn't perform then his trade value is nil.
The benefit to Bush is that he is used to sharing the load, and our other top RB Davis was used to sharing the load in college, thus they can both benefit from it because neither was known as an every down back. Davis didn't get a mammoth contract thus keeping them both isn't a huge salary cap concern. Bush can line up in the slot and with Kubiack coming in, they will share the load just fine.
And is Vince Young that much Better than Matt Linart that Matt gets no consideration, when he won the Hiesman he was considered the second coming, if you legitamately have lost faith in Carr the QB competiotion should be open to everyone at the top of the draft which is Linart and Young.
NFL history goes to show that the QB position takes about a year before you can start and then another year before you are comfortable. So Carr or vetran would be our QB for roughly the next year and a half while VY continues to learn the offense.
Trading Carr will not be easy and getting decent value for him will be even harder.
Alot of Vince's speed will be neutralized at the next level because the game is just faster at the college level, he will not be able to simply burn for 200 yards in a game. He doesn't have Vick type speed and agility (Bush comes close though) He does have 5 inches on Vick and 30+ pounds so he has the ability to be a better passer than Vick has shown in 5 years, but he will not have that game breaking speed, so its a trade off. His throwing mechanic is more awkward than's Carr's was coming out and he spends alot of time in the shotgun. putting Carr in the Drew Brees role could lead to the same results, the maturation of Carr then the decision of trading the unknown or trading the new star. And if he doesn't perform then his trade value is nil.
The benefit to Bush is that he is used to sharing the load, and our other top RB Davis was used to sharing the load in college, thus they can both benefit from it because neither was known as an every down back. Davis didn't get a mammoth contract thus keeping them both isn't a huge salary cap concern. Bush can line up in the slot and with Kubiack coming in, they will share the load just fine.
And is Vince Young that much Better than Matt Linart that Matt gets no consideration, when he won the Hiesman he was considered the second coming, if you legitamately have lost faith in Carr the QB competiotion should be open to everyone at the top of the draft which is Linart and Young.
uhcougar08 said:
David Carr gets a pass because of the Line, but DD doesn't?? Sounds kinda fishy to me.
Oh yeah, DD was still able to put up decent numbers..
jacquescas said:
Byron Leftwich.
and everything you negate because of moving to the NFL, remember Bush is moving to the same NFL.
jacquescas
Veteran
MorKnolle said:
ohhhh my point continues to stand. Rookie QBs do not a team make.
MorKnolle said:
David Carr, 2005:
256/423-60.5%-2488 yards-14TDs/11ints-77.2 rating for a 2-14 team
Nobody said Dominant... I said he made an impact on the team his rookie year. Mark Brunnel was taking a beating. His line couldn't protect him, he got hurt. Leftwich came in, and they began to move the ball down the field. Brunnell was the only Quarterback the Jaguars ever had, and he had the same kind of loyalty we see here.
Oh yeah, Byron only started 13 games to get those numbers opposed to Carr who started all 16 to get his.
I just looked at Brunnel's numbers......... wow, his rating never dropped below 80, he threw for 3000 yards for 8 yrs(avg)....... ints very low(in comparison). Why did they get rid of him??
Kerry Collins was only given three years of David Carr type playing. Shipped him off to.....well, let's just say he's a journeyman. STill ain't nothing though.
Long-Spurs-Texan
Waterboy
If we draft Vince & he has some success, the team will buy into it in a hurry. They are looking for a leader. Once the team gets behind him, high profile free agents will want to be in Houston. They sure haven't yet, that's for sure. That will give the Texans credibility.
TheOgre said:
True because the Eagles knew if you have the chance to take a franchise QB over a RB you do it. Running backs typically don't last as long.
Will the Colts ever face the tough decision of extending Peyton's contract?? no, because it's a no brainer.
But aren't they reviewing Edgerin James' contract for the second time in like 3 years??
Corey Dillon got a little too big for his shoes in Cinci.......... I don't think they'll miss'm
No big deal, if Priest Holmes doesn't come back, they've got Larry Johnson.
Ladanian + Brees didn't get them into the playoffs, and they are a better team all the way around, coaching included.
I seriously doubt Denver will ever take a running back @ #1.
But aren't they reviewing Edgerin James' contract for the second time in like 3 years??
Corey Dillon got a little too big for his shoes in Cinci.......... I don't think they'll miss'm
No big deal, if Priest Holmes doesn't come back, they've got Larry Johnson.
Ladanian + Brees didn't get them into the playoffs, and they are a better team all the way around, coaching included.
I seriously doubt Denver will ever take a running back @ #1.