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What is the real problem? Is this really a total rebuild?

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I can't help but wonder what undiscovered talent we might have on the roster/ps that just never got to play under BOB. I'm convinced that our WR corps is in better shape that we believe.

CB / RB / interior OL / run stopping (blocker occupying? ) DL


Not taking into account free agents... is there something I'm missing? I mean sit Mercilus and this defense isn't that bad is it?

If you just fix clock management this team is probably 6 - 6. No telling what else improves with a new regime. Can your new GM come in and clean cap up get you to 8-8 next year and get ready to reload going into 2022?

I'm not looking at this as everything is fine were ready to contend, but you're gonna shed salary and not be in terrible shape. Then there are just a lot of pieces that have been pretty impressive (granted that is relative) since BOB has been gone.
 

FatSeagal

Practice Squad
My best hope is that we "retool" kinda like how the colts did a few years ago. Not exactly a rebuild (how can you even do that while keeping Tunsil and Watson) but I do think we need to get younger and address key areas on our team. Cunningham and McKinney are too similar in skill set so let McKinney go and upgrade another area. I would even be willing to do the unthinkable and trade JJ to improve the overall competence of our defense.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
 

Mangler

All Pro
I don’t think we need to do a complete rebuild per se, as long as the new GM is competent. That, along with the new HC installing a system that actually works, and hiring a competent OC. I still have hope in this O-line, so I’m sure the next Offensive Line Coach will get these guys playing right.

Lots of ifs, I know.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The Texans haven’t caught a break yet. They have some talent to be able to compete. On offense they have some young receivers in Keke and now Hansen, who looks to have some potential. So you don’t have to focus on that right a way. You can go after a center and running back in the early rounds that we do have. We most definitely needs a stud running back. Hopefully we can find a stealer, as well as bringing in a FA. I’ll keep Duke but David has to go.

Defense: we have some young talent but man we need another LB, a couple of corners and a legit nose guard. I now this won’t be a popular opinion but I will find a way to keep JJ.
 
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The Texans haven’t caught a break yet. They have some talent to be able to compete. On offense they have some young receivers in Keke and now Hansen, who looks to have some potential. So you don’t have to focus on that right a way. You can go after a center and running back in the early rounds that we do have. We most definitely needs a stud running back. Hopefully we can find a stealer, as well as bringing in a FA. I’ll keep Duke but David has to go.

Defense: we have some young talent but man we need another LB, a couple of corners and a legit nose guard. I now this won’t be a popular opinion but I will find a way to keep JJ.
Offense the Texans have no way to keep defenses guessing. We typically only have a couple of receivers worth throwing to, even less with Fuller popping, so it’s not hard to figure out who Watson will target. Likewise teams fear nothing about our run game so they don’t really do anything to defend against it which means they can focus on pass blocking. Biggest thing the Texans need is consistency from the positions. We don’t need a Gronk if we have TE that can catch at least 8 out of 10 passes. Likewise we don’t need a Hopkins or even Fuller if we have WRs that can run their routes and at least win their match ups sone of the time.

On RB we just need a couple of RBs that can at least get enough yards that the defense can’t just ignore them. I still think a power back that doesn’t need much blocking for is the way to go because that takes some of the load off the line and allows them to focus on protecting Watson. Again we don’t have to win with the run game and we don’t need a Bell or Henry level RB as Watson has good enough legs he can run himself if needed.

None of these things require pro bowl players, though they are nice, just players that can be trusted to do their jobs game to game.

On defense biggest thing we need is someone that can be matched with the biggest weapon on the offense. When you get to championship level you are going to have the Henry’s and the Hills and the Gronk’s to contend with and the last 10 years at least Texans haven’t had a defense player they can really match to those guys and have any chance of winning. Watt struck fear into QBs but once the ball was released he was mostly a non-factor. I would love to keep Watt just for what he means to the team but I don’t think the money is there and at this point I think he wants to try for a ring. To keep him would either require a massive leap of faith on his part or, more likely, a huge contract that the Texans just don’t have the money for.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I still have hope in this O-line, so I’m sure the next Offensive Line Coach will get these guys playing right.
While I think an OL coach, and a functional scheme can make a huge difference, they’ve got to get better talent in the middle. Martin isn’t good, and the Scharping/Kelemete duo isn’t working. Fulton might be serviceable, but you could stand an upgrade there as well.

You guys are close. A better rb and a few pieces on d andcyou should be good.
A few pieces? If 3 CBs, some OLBs, DT, and pass rushers is a few, then yes.
 
While I think an OL coach, and a functional scheme can make a huge difference, they’ve got to get better talent in the middle. Martin isn’t good, and the Scharping/Kelemete duo isn’t working. Fulton might be serviceable, but you could stand an upgrade there as well.
I really think you upgrade at Center and the rest will be much better. Before teams pushed in at LT because they knew that was the hole but since Tunsil plugged that up they've figured out all they have to do is slam into Martin and he'll fold like an accordion. In some ways thats even worse than a hole at LT because they can screw up the snap and throw the QB off because now he has to see a gorilla charging at him.

A few pieces? If 3 CBs, some OLBs, DT, and pass rushers is a few, then yes.
Defense isn't completely horrible and they don't need to be a historical defense they just need to be even middle of the pack for the most part. Most of those pieces could be filled with later rounds and maybe some F/A, not that we have picks or money this year, and then get rid of that stupid "bend don't break" style of defense. I agree though we need at least one player on the defense we can match up against the big weapon of top tier teams.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Defense isn't completely horrible and they don't need to be a historical defense they just need to be even middle of the pack for the most part. Most of those pieces could be filled with later rounds and maybe some F/A, not that we have picks or money this year, and then get rid of that stupid "bend don't break" style of defense. I agree though we need at least one player on the defense we can match up against the big weapon of top tier teams.
Well, yeah, they are horrible. They’re one of the worst defenses in the game right now. And just to get to middle of the pack you’re going to have to upgrade from a lot of the scrubs they have on the field right now. A bad secondary and no pass rush isn’t going to get you to middle of the pack.
 
Well, yeah, they are horrible. They’re one of the worst defenses in the game right now. And just to get to middle of the pack you’re going to have to upgrade from a lot of the scrubs they have on the field right now. A bad secondary and no pass rush isn’t going to get you to middle of the pack.
I'm not saying they are good but they have been showing signs of improvement. I don't expect them to stop Mahomes or Rodgers anytime soon but I'm not sure its a complete loss either. Definitely need some new blood though.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well, yeah, they are horrible. They’re one of the worst defenses in the game right now. And just to get to middle of the pack you’re going to have to upgrade from a lot of the scrubs they have on the field right now. A bad secondary and no pass rush isn’t going to get you to middle of the pack.
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I hope they go to a 4-3 defense next yr, using Watt/Blacklock/Hall/Drafted guy, with J.Martin/Omenihu/Dunn as reserves.

Draft a coverage LB and A CB/S in rd 4 to develop. Then sign a vet CB.

The defense would look like this.

Watt/Blacklock/Hall/Drafted guy

Cunningham/Adams/Drafted guy

FA CB/Roby and Reid/Drafted guy. Developmental 3rd CB also would be drafted.

Of course drafting like this would still leave holes on offense at RB/IOL/WR.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I hope they go to a 4-3 defense next yr, using Watt/Blacklock/Hall/Drafted guy, with J.Martin/Omenihu/Dunn as reserves.
You think we'll draft a better end than Martin, Greenard, Omenehu in the 3rd or later?

I think making Martin or Greenard 4-3 ends would be as good or better DE opposite Jj than we can find that late in the draft.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You think we'll draft a better end than Martin, Greenard, Omenehu in the 3rd or later?

I think making Martin or Greenard 4-3 ends would be as good or better DE opposite Jj than we can find that late in the draft.
Yes, there's a couple of small school guys one is from UAB Jordan Smith and Ellerson Smith from N. Iowa that I really think would be upgrades. They could very well be there in the 3rd rd. I liked Highsmith from UAB in last yrs draft alot. The Steelers drafted him and he's going to have to play now that Dupree went down for the season. I think he will hold his own.
 

Mangler

All Pro
I hope they go to a 4-3 defense next yr, using Watt/Blacklock/Hall/Drafted guy, with J.Martin/Omenihu/Dunn as reserves.

Draft a coverage LB and A CB/S in rd 4 to develop. Then sign a vet CB.

The defense would look like this.

Watt/Blacklock/Hall/Drafted guy

Cunningham/Adams/Drafted guy

FA CB/Roby and Reid/Drafted guy. Developmental 3rd CB also would be drafted.

Of course drafting like this would still leave holes on offense at RB/IOL/WR.
I agree. Especially if the new GM can hit on a good UFA RB, and one unexpected gem at WR. Leave the offense alone, go defense with the draft picks we do have. I’m crossing my fingers hoping the new GM brings in some competent scouts with him.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I think the real problem is we have too many players that were over valued. Name a player on this team that is giving good value. How many people can we say, "That person is underpaid, or we made a good deal for that guy."

Justin Reid probably... that's it?

On the flip side, we have loads of people on bad contracts, or we traded a boat load for.
 

FatSeagal

Practice Squad
I think the real problem is we have too many players that were over valued. Name a player on this team that is giving good value. How many people can we say, "That person is underpaid, or we made a good deal for that guy."

Justin Reid probably... that's it?

On the flip side, we have loads of people on bad contracts, or we traded a boat load for.
Lol that's a very depressing observation. A couple months ago a rumor came out that the Texans were listening to any trade not involving Watson, Tunsil, Howard, and Fuller(?). That seemed about right. Feels like everyone on our team is older, paid with correctly or a little over, and wouldn't be too disappointing if we decide to move on from other than those 4.

Except for Reid that is

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dream_team

Hall of Fame
Lol that's a very depressing observation. A couple months ago a rumor came out that the Texans were listening to any trade not involving Watson, Tunsil, Howard, and Fuller(?). That seemed about right. Feels like everyone on our team is older, paid with correctly or a little over, and wouldn't be too disappointing if we decide to move on from other than those 4.

Except for Reid that is

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In this league, you will always have overpaid guys. You will always have draft pick busts. Therefore, you need to balance that out with underpaid guys and draft picks exceeding their expectations. Look at the draft picks, FA acquisitions, contract extensions, and trades done in the past three seasons... should not be a surprise of where we're at. Like I said, there's only ONE move (in the past three seasons) where I can easily say, "That was a smart decision." That's drafting Justin Reid. One good move in 3 years ain't gonna win much games.
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
I don’t think we need to do a complete rebuild per se, as long as the new GM is competent. That, along with the new HC installing a system that actually works, and hiring a competent OC. I still have hope in this O-line, so I’m sure the next Offensive Line Coach will get these guys playing right.

Lots of ifs, I know.

In regard to the offensive line … I think they would benefit from an identity - a defined scheme that we base 60 to 75
% of our plays off of. Depending upon what scheme a new OC employs, we need to replace and improve the talent level of our interior linemen. Nick Martin might be good in a ZBS center. I have difficulty giving up on Max. I see him make mistakes, that make me think a really good OL Coach might be able to fix …. and when I see him, I automatically think- Right Side …. I'd love for Munchak and/or Mathews to come in, put him through his paces, and say yea or nay !
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
With the lack of first round talent on rookie contracts and cap hell from overpaying JAGs, I expect a rebuild. Only positive is the QB and LT are in place, but everything else is questionable. Unfortunately, those two positions are taking up a rather significant percentage of the cap.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
With the lack of first round talent on rookie contracts and cap hell from overpaying JAGs, I expect a rebuild. Only positive is the QB and LT are in place, but everything else is questionable. Unfortunately, those two positions are taking up a rather significant percentage of the cap.
The only hope I'm holding onto is the talent is actually better than we're seeing, the coaches just aren't putting these guys in good position to succeed. Which really isn't that hard to believe.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Even if we had our full compliment of picks we’d still take at least a year to get our bearings under a new HC. But I don’t think it’s a total tear down and imo they can compete next year with a few choice pick ups in the draft and the development of a couple of the rooks we already have on the roster. Not for a title, but at least for a playoff berth.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The only hope I'm holding onto is the talent is actually better than we're seeing, the coaches just aren't putting these guys in good position to succeed. Which really isn't that hard to believe.
I think you're going to find out that the OL is better than its shown and the defense needs a massive infusion of talent when the new regime arrives on Kirby.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Coaching and front office total rebuild. Between the new GM and HC, they’ll decide how big the turnover is on the players side. My best guess- at least 20 new faces on this roster come week one of the 2021 season. Starting with the offense, players cut/traded:

David Johnson
Duke Johnson
Fuller
Cooks
Cobb
Fulton
Fells
McCown
Nick Martin
Kelemete
Warring

On defense:
Mercilus
McKinney
Murray
Dunn
Watt
Hall

Then there’s a bunch of guys that never play or just play on ST’s.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Kelemente is cheap. Good depth. Keep him.


Mercilus
McKinney
I'll have to see if making these guys June 1st cuts make sense. If we want to eat that dead money over two years. But off the top of my head, I don't think we can straight up cut them.

Restructure their salary, lower their cap, cur them after 2021. Basically the same thing, but they're on the roster.

I would basically be giving McKinney every opportunity to redeem himself. I think he's good at what he's good at. Need to use hi. That way more often.

Mercilus, if he shows up to camp again out of shape, he's done. Eat the dead money & move on.

Scarlett is cheap too, but brings no value. Greenard & Martin would be my outside rush ends if I do in fact cut Whitney.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
We’re in cap hell. We’ll be gutting this team in the off-season
I think your right. And like it or hate it...I think everyone on the roster has a price. A very good GM and HC are going to want what they want. Is JJ a fit (still seeing him traded)? Roby? Watson? Fuller? It just really depends on what they want to do and what tape shows them. The only position I can say is not at risk is LT. I don't see them moving LT when he is a very good LT... not easy to find. Neither is QB or a JJ, but maybe a new HC uses 2 guys that are not as good but equal JJ. We shall see. But I 100% see this team being a whole lot different by training camp.

No offence to any player, but if we win... I'll miss you, but it is a business at the end of the day.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Kelemente is cheap. Good depth. Keep him.



I'll have to see if making these guys June 1st cuts make sense. If we want to eat that dead money over two years. But off the top of my head, I don't think we can straight up cut them.

Restructure their salary, lower their cap, cur them after 2021. Basically the same thing, but they're on the roster.

I would basically be giving McKinney every opportunity to redeem himself. I think he's good at what he's good at. Need to use hi. That way more often.

Mercilus, if he shows up to camp again out of shape, he's done. Eat the dead money & move on.

Scarlett is cheap too, but brings no value. Greenard & Martin would be my outside rush ends if I do in fact cut Whitney.
You would have to know what type of defense the HC or DC is going to run before figuring out who to cut. Personally I hope JJ one DE and a guy is drafted to be the other DE. Hall/Blacklock at DT's with Dunn/Omenihu as depth pieces. This way, since the LB's suck you dont have to have as many LB's on the field.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Kelemente is cheap. Good depth. Keep him.



I'll have to see if making these guys June 1st cuts make sense. If we want to eat that dead money over two years. But off the top of my head, I don't think we can straight up cut them.

Restructure their salary, lower their cap, cur them after 2021. Basically the same thing, but they're on the roster.

I would basically be giving McKinney every opportunity to redeem himself. I think he's good at what he's good at. Need to use hi. That way more often.

Mercilus, if he shows up to camp again out of shape, he's done. Eat the dead money & move on.

Scarlett is cheap too, but brings no value. Greenard & Martin would be my outside rush ends if I do in fact cut Whitney.

I think you confused Kelemete and Fulton's contract situations -

Kelemete only has $250k in dead money but has a "roster bonus" that makes up $4.2m of his cap hit of $5.75m for next season - don't know when that bonus becomes guaranteed. Can you replace Kelemete for less than $5.5m ? I think so .... In a cap crunch $5.5m for a depth guy is a bit steep.

Fulton is the one on the bargain contract cap hit of $3.75m , dead money $750k. Fulton you cannot replace for less money.

Nick Martin $8.75m cap hit $2.5m in dead money. Has to go.

BMac has a cap hit of $8.5m , dead money of $1.5m.

After watching Adams and his $810k cap hit in place of BMac since he went to IR , I think that $7m in cap space is more valuable than BMac .... I'd be cutting him although Adams is a FA at the end of the year. If you can keep him on a similar deal that's a win.

Mercilus you are stuck with unless you want to eat $15.5m in dead money .... Ouch!. I'm with you , I might eat it if he comes in out of shape , just to clear the books going forward.

David Johnson $9m cap hit $2.1m dead. He's gone.

Duke Johnson $5.15 cap hit 0 dead. Too much for his production - Gone if I'm making the call.

Cooks 12m cap hit in 21 , 0 dead. Due 13m in 22 & 14m in 23. I think he knew when he signed that contract he'd be in this position - Restructure or cut.


JJ Watt - the elephant in the room. $17.5m cap hit 0 dead.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
I think you confused Kelemete and Fulton's contract situations -

Kelemete only has $250k in dead money but has a "roster bonus" that makes up $4.2m of his cap hit of $5.75m for next season - don't know when that bonus becomes guaranteed. Can you replace Kelemete for less than $5.5m ? I think so .... In a cap crunch $5.5m for a depth guy is a bit steep.

Fulton is the one on the bargain contract cap hit of $3.75m , dead money $750k. Fulton you cannot replace for less money.

Nick Martin $8.75m cap hit $2.5m in dead money. Has to go.

BMac has a cap hit of $8.5m , dead money of $1.5m.

After watching Adams and his $810k cap hit in place of BMac since he went to IR , I think that $7m in cap space is more valuable than BMac .... I'd be cutting him although Adams is a FA at the end of the year. If you can keep him on a similar deal that's a win.

Mercilus you are stuck with unless you want to eat $15.5m in dead money .... Ouch!. I'm with you , I might eat it if he comes in out of shape , just to clear the books going forward.

David Johnson $9m cap hit $2.1m dead. He's gone.

Duke Johnson $5.15 cap hit 0 dead. Too much for his production - Gone if I'm making the call.

Cooks 12m cap hit in 21 , 0 dead. Due 13m in 22 & 14m in 23. I think he knew when he signed that contract he'd be in this position - Restructure or cut.


JJ Watt - the elephant in the room. $17.5m cap hit 0 dead.
Some guys will be cut, others renegotiated, others like Mercilus will have to play out for another year or so. Hopefully, the next staff can get better production from some of these guys
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
Still think if they can't or won't trade JJ, they will restructure him - throw him some guaranteed money and reduce his cap hit by 6-8 million?

I just don't see a world where the Texan's owners cut JJ, even if they should for the team and his best interest.
I agree. It makes the most sense. JJ has good football left, not ELITE, but good. We need solid guys to help mentor and lead.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Cobb and Mercilus are the contracts you are really stuck with. Keke can play at a much cheaper rate and seems when used right can have greater production and ceiling then Cobb, but in 2021 too much dead money to cut. Mercilus is a shell of himself, and Romeo said he is taking those snaps because he is the best OLB at pass defense, kidding me right? You don't pay $14m per for a OLB to drop back.

David and Duke need to go, RB's can be found.
Martin needs to go, let Fulton slide to center and draft an interior guy.
Restructure Cooks, see what Hansen and Coulter can do before deciding on Fuller, but likely let him leave for the comp pick as someone will pay him $12m+/year. Keep drafting WR, college is a passing game, lots out there, find your diamond
Keep JJ if he will add another year or two have the discussion to reduce his cap, draft another pass rusher
Need to draft a CB, fix rookie Reid, coach Lonnie to play safety better. I probably keep Roby as Conley seems done, but not sure he is the example we want back there and may keep Justin's voice from being the top voice
Let Mckinney go, resign Adams

Coach better at all levels
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
The team overall isn’t that far off IMO.
I think I the offense is fixable and capable of being top tier with the pieces they already have.
That said, in this next draft I would prioritize defense with picks from rds 2-4 unless there’s just someone too good to pass on offense.

These guys on defense fight, I’ll give them that. But they need a serious talent upgrade to compete with the top teams.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
The offense could be salvaged with some new toys and a Center. The defense is in need of a complete rebuild.

Offense:
Draft a couple of new OL.
Sign FA WR's, Antonio Brown and Josh Gordon. Both could be massive upgrades over the current lot. Re-sign Coutee. Sign Hensen.
Sign FA RB's, Le'Veon Bell and Leonard Fournette. Giving them an opportunity to be the featured backs again may be exactly what the doctor ordered. I think both have plenty of tread on the tires and would be major upgrades over the current backs. Cut David Johnson and re-sign Duke Johnson as the 3rd down back.

I believe these moves would make the Texans offense very competitive.

Defense:
Just a complete overhaul is needed. Trade or cut anyone on this unit that isn't playing up to their contract and find cheap replacements for 2021. 2022 would be the season to push the chips in on fixing the defense.
 


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