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What is Sage's value?--Sage Frustrated

Thorn said:
It's the offseason, arguing about Sage and Schaub gives us something to do besides the endless speculation about free agents and the draft.

In any case, whatever anyone’s opinion is, we’ll find out this season what’s what. I sure as hell hope (an unproven) Schaub is the guy.
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It is the offseason and some dolt who has not been around during the reg season thought he would come here and stroke himself infront of everyone. Logic be damned facts be damned it is all about making oneself the center of it all.
 
Specnatz said:
It is the offseason and some dolt who has not been around during the reg season thought he would come here and stroke himself infront of everyone. Logic be damned facts be damned it is all about making oneself the center of it all.
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If you're talking about me, then you're wrong--So you need to check yourself if you're referring to me. I've been around all year, for years.

I have stats which I think show Sage and Schaub are at the same level, at the moment. But I supposedly do not have "facts" or "logic."

Quit trying to personally attack me at every point. I've got posters who are sending me positive rep, commenting on how they agree with me. Of course they won't say so publicly on the board because history is proving that you and others seek out and flame people like me if we have a different viewpoint.

People can hypothesize "Well, Sage had AJ..." or "Schaub has a higher ceiling..." all they want. We're all doing the same thing: Making judgment calls. Because I see 9 games and 11 games, and the stats are pretty dadgum close to one another. But! I should remember that I am parsing stats, I am a dolt, etc.

We have a known commodity in Sage, and it was surprising how many posters were biting on the 3rd round offer.
 
do we really need another thread about this...LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER TRADE SAGE THREADS AND SEE WHAT PEOPLE THINK HE IS WORTH

this is the whole reason i avoid the houstontexans.com board because its completely filled with Lets trade Sage for ____ or how much could we get for Andre Johnson
 
2nd and trade of firsts (18-->17 in case harvey reaches there :))

if anybody think thats overvalued, go to nfl.com and look at sages highlights from the past season... a nice refresher of why he should be valued that highly- some quality throws
 
All about precendent. List the backup QB trades you can remember here:

I've got:

Matt Schaub (backup) to Houston Texans (starter) - 2 2nd rounders and swap 1st
Charlie Fry (backup) to Seattle (backup) - 6th rounder
Drew Henson (backup) to Dallas (backup) - 3rd rounder
 
You can't place a value on Sage as generic as a 1st or a 2nd or a 3rd.

You have got to assign a range specific value as in " I would trade him for an early 2nd round: picks 32-42" or a late 2nd round pick (#'s 54-62)

The 1st pick in the 3rd round is much different than say the 20th pick in the 3rd round. Both 3rd rounders but much different value.

And I have no idea what value I would place on Sage. But as long as we had a decent backup that Kubiak is comfortable with, then I'd trade him for an early 3rd rd pick or better... maybe... my view is allowed to change on a day by day, hour by hour basis though. :)
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
You can't place a value on Sage as generic as a 1st or a 2nd or a 3rd.

You have got to assign a range specific value as in " I would trade him for an early 2nd round: picks 32-42" or a late 2nd round pick (#'s 54-62)

The 1st pick in the 3rd round is much different than say the 20th pick in the 3rd round. Both 3rd rounders but much different value.

And I have no idea what value I would place on Sage. But as long as we had a decent backup that Kubiak is comfortable with, then I'd trade him for an early 3rd rd pick or better... maybe... my view is allowed to change on a day by day, hour by hour basis though. :)
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exactly ole miss...nobody wants the Giants 2nd Rounder because its essentially a 3rd Rounder.
 
Another interesting thing to think about is how much of a compensation pick would we get if we just let Sage loose and had him sign an NFL deal on his own?

Thats what the Chargers did we Turner. They kept him for his contract, then let him go. He signed a decent size contract and will probably make an impact, giving the Chargers a 3rd rounder or better as compensation.

Maybe we could just keep Sage for the year, check out Schaub's health, and if we like what we see, let sage go and pickup whatever compensation we can
 
I would gladly take the Giants 2nd rounder (last pick of the first day) or the Dolphins 3rd rounder (1st pick of the second day)

Unfortunately, neither of those teams would be interested in Sage.
 
Specnatz said:
WHY? This has been beat to friggin death :deadhorse



:gun:

If I was just a bit more of an A-Hole I would Negative Rep this thread!!
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Probably because I wasn't on when we did this previously or not paying attention and they are talking about bringing in another QB.

Sorry about adding a whole new thread line that you would have to overlook and not respond to.

:deadhorse
 
There is a search feature so you can check to see if there are prior threads. Welcome to the MB--you'll get the hang.
 
The Star Tribune reports that the Vikings are still interested in Sage.

Of those possibilities, who is your favorite? The Vikings' top choice is clear: Rosenfels. In fact, they made him one of their top offseason priorities and considered his acquisition no less important than that of receiver Bernard Berrian or safety Madieu Williams.

The Vikings offered Houston a third-round draft pick in the hopes of acquiring him just before the free-agent period began. Talks stalled when the Texans asked for a second-round pick, but there is a general feeling among NFL people that the teams could re-enter those discussions as early as this week, when all 32 teams gather here for the league's annual meetings.

Publicly, not enough attention has been spent on the significance in the difference of entering 2008 with Rosenfels and without him. If they snag him, the Vikings will have finally accomplished a project three years in the making: finding a veteran backup who knows the West Coast offense and has demonstrated an ability to win games as a short-term starter.
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Here's how the article ends:

A second-round draft pick is a hefty price for a backup player. But the Vikings don't need to be reminded how important a position it is.
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The Star Tribune seems to be selling this trade to Viking fans.
 
Sage Rosenfels-QB-Texans Mar. 31 - 10:07 am et

There is "general feeling" that the Vikings and Texans will re-enter trade talks involving Sage Rosenfels at the owners' meetings this week.

Acquiring Rosenfels was reportedly one of the Vikings' top priorities entering the offseason, no less important than Bernard Berrian's signing. The Vikings know Houston wants a second-round pick. If they add a fifth-rounder or a CB like Marcus McCauley to their offer of a third, maybe the Texans will bite.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

so a high third, a young talented CB that was a third last year, and a high fifth...

Rick sure do know how to work it.
 
Eggs in one basket. Who knows, it might play out to our favour. It'll be interesting to see what happens the next couple of weeks, sure would be nice to get that 2nd round pick back. If we do that, the price of our starting QB is.... a 2nd. Last year :)
 
A second from the Vikes and Atlanta's two 2nd for our 18 and a 5th round. I could see us getting a LT, RB and a CB in round two. We would then have 3rd and 4th to further strengthen the team.
 
According to McClain this morning, people around the league are amazed that we got Quinn for the price we did. The way it is set up we can trade him right after camp if teams start losing QBs in preseason. He also has enough respect where Sage can probably be had at the draft. I think a 2nd at draft time will get it done for Sage.
 
J-Russ said:
Sage Rosenfels-QB-Texans Mar. 31 - 10:07 am et

There is "general feeling" that the Vikings and Texans will re-enter trade talks involving Sage Rosenfels at the owners' meetings this week.

Acquiring Rosenfels was reportedly one of the Vikings' top priorities entering the offseason, no less important than Bernard Berrian's signing. The Vikings know Houston wants a second-round pick. If they add a fifth-rounder or a CB like Marcus McCauley to their offer of a third, maybe the Texans will bite.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

so a high third, a young talented CB that was a third last year, and a high fifth...

Rick sure do know how to work it.
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I can't find much recent news on McCauley. 25 yoa with good closing speed. http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2611369

http://min.scout.com/2/639792.html

I do not want a 3rd an a 5th for Sage. A two or nothing.

Would it be better for Vikes to wait until draft day rather than owners' meeting to work up a deal? Of course, if they want Sage and have a 2nd round bottom line to offer, they should do deal rather than hope another team does not come into play.
 
I like the idea of getting McCauley and a 3rd for Sage. With McCauley you've got a young talented CB with an NFL season under his belt, I doubt you'd find someone in the 3rd at CB that'll be ready to contribute on McCauley's level on opening day.

Here is a predraft breakdown on McCauley last year:

http://www.mymockdraft.com/594/PlayerDetail.aspx

Marcus McCauley

* CB |
* Fresno State |
* NCAAF

* CB Rank: 5
* Overall: 34
* Projected Round: 2

* Height: 6-1 |
* Weight: 200 |
* 40 Time: 4.40

Positives

Has prototypical size...Timed speed is outstanding...Athletic and quick with fluid hips and a great burst...Physical and aggressive...A playmaker with pretty good ball skills...Has great body control, leaping ability and timing...Good tackler who will support versus the run...Has superb instincts for the game...A hard worker with good intangibles...Is able to play and excel in either man or zone coverage.

Negatives

His technique and footwork can be inconsistent...Will gamble and take too many risks...Hands are questionable and he will drop some interceptions...Needs to get a little stronger...Was not really thrown at a lot in college...Has trouble locating the ball...Struggled mightily at times in 2006 and didn't have a great senior year.

I hope this isn't just a name being thrown out by the paper and that there is something to McCauley plus a 3rd to the Texans for Sage.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I like the idea of getting McCauley and a 3rd for Sage. With McCauley you've got a young talented CB with an NFL season under his belt, I doubt you'd find someone in the 3rd at CB that'll be ready to contribute on McCauley's level on opening day.

Here is a predraft breakdown on McCauley last year:

http://www.mymockdraft.com/594/PlayerDetail.aspx

Marcus McCauley

* CB |
* Fresno State |
* NCAAF

* CB Rank: 5
* Overall: 34
* Projected Round: 2

* Height: 6-1 |
* Weight: 200 |
* 40 Time: 4.40

Positives

Has prototypical size...Timed speed is outstanding...Athletic and quick with fluid hips and a great burst...Physical and aggressive...A playmaker with pretty good ball skills...Has great body control, leaping ability and timing...Good tackler who will support versus the run...Has superb instincts for the game...A hard worker with good intangibles...Is able to play and excel in either man or zone coverage.

Negatives

His technique and footwork can be inconsistent...Will gamble and take too many risks...Hands are questionable and he will drop some interceptions...Needs to get a little stronger...Was not really thrown at a lot in college...Has trouble locating the ball...Struggled mightily at times in 2006 and didn't have a great senior year.

I hope this isn't just a name being thrown out by the paper and that there is something to McCauley plus a 3rd to the Texans for Sage.
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Might fit good in our defensive scheme but one of the links I posted indicated a possible unwillingness to come up and hit after he concussed.
 
I was hoping we would look at McCauley last year during the draft. If they offered us Him AND their 1st 3rd rd pick, I'd take it in a heart beat. I have a feeling that if the Texans don't receive an overwhelmingly great deal for Sage, they will (a) wait until draft day to make a deal for a higher price or if a player we really want drops or (b) not trade him at all.
 
J-Russ said:
The Vikings know Houston wants a second-round pick. If they add a fifth-rounder or a CB like Marcus McCauley to their offer of a third, maybe the Texans will bite.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune
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Where did this come from? I couldn't find anything from the Star Tribune mentioning McCauley. He started 9 games for the Vikings last season. McCauley could be Winfield's replacement in the not-to-distant future. I doubt the Vikings will be willing to part with him.
 
J-Russ said:
Sage Rosenfels-QB-Texans Mar. 31 - 10:07 am et

There is "general feeling" that the Vikings and Texans will re-enter trade talks involving Sage Rosenfels at the owners' meetings this week.

Acquiring Rosenfels was reportedly one of the Vikings' top priorities entering the offseason, no less important than Bernard Berrian's signing. The Vikings know Houston wants a second-round pick. If they add a fifth-rounder or a CB like Marcus McCauley to their offer of a third, maybe the Texans will bite.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

so a high third, a young talented CB that was a third last year, and a high fifth...

Rick sure do know how to work it.
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I would take the McCauley + 3rd trade in a heartbeat.

1rst LT
no Second
3rd - OLB, DE
 
PALM BEACH, FLA. — The Texans came to South Florida reading and hearing about the Vikings' possible renewed interest in quarterback Sage Rosenfels, but one day into the NFL spring meetings, the two sides had not spoken.
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5663883.html

Texans coach on Rosenfels trade: “Absolutely not”
April 1st, 2008 – 8:09 AM by Kevin Seifert

PALM BEACH, FLA. — That’s what Houston coach Gary Kubiak said this morning when asked if his team is looking to trade backup QB Sage Rosenfels — to the Vikings or anyone else. Kubiak deferred some questions to GM Rick Smith but made clear that starter Matt Schaub’s health — he is recovering from shoulder surgery — makes it difficult to trade Rosenfels.

“He’s important to our football team,” Kubiak said. “Our starter right now physically has a problem, coming off shoulder surgery, so Sage is very important to our football team.”

Some of Kubiak’s comments could be posturing. But they also make sense. Why would the Texans, who have playoff aspirations in 2008, trade a relatively young but proven backup quarterback when their starter’s health is in question? The Vikings remain heavily interested in Rosenfels, having offered a third-round draft pick for him, but it’s not certain that Houston will trade him at any price.

The Vikings will probably make another run at Rosenfels before the April 26-27 draft, but a deal doesn’t seem too likely at this point.
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http://vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=16293&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Kubes, you're breaking my balls....

they might just say "screw it", if you keep leading them on like this...:headhurts:
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Kubiak is saying all the right things as the coach of the team.
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You're right, but hearing the same thing over and over again has really gotten me to believe in it... not that I wouldn't want Sage though, I'd just rather have another day one draft pick.
 
J-Russ said:
You're right, but hearing the same thing over and over again has really gotten me to believe in it... not that I wouldn't want Sage though, I'd just rather have another day one draft pick.
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Thats what its supposed to do make the entire NFL believe it.
 
StarTribune.com is now reporting that the Vikings are close to signing vet QB Gus Frerotte, which would table the Sage Rosenfels trade discussions.

PALM BEACH, FLA. — With the Houston Texans apparently intent on keeping QB Sage Rosenfels, indications are strong this morning that the Vikings are nearing an agreement with free agent QB Gus Frerotte.

Frerotte, who also has visited the Green Bay Packers, could agree to terms in the next few days. He would serve as a veteran backup for starter Tarvaris Jackson.

The Vikings have been attempting to trade for Rosenfels for much of the offseason, but Texans coach Gary Kubiak made a compelling case this morning for why the team doesn’t want to trade him.
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$$$ Shoot, keep him for another year. Maybe at this time next year, after this bad QB draft class, the value of all QBs will rise. $$$
 
TexansSeminole said:
$$$ Shoot, keep him for another year. Maybe at this time next year, after this bad QB draft class, the value of all QBs will rise. $$$
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Great idea!

Keep him another year, then his value will skyrocket! What, he'll be like 31, and have much less playing time then he did this year, not to mention he'll be a FA.

And forget about getting a 3rd now!

I mean Sage is so much more valueble then a 3rd round pick in a draft full of talented CB, T, RB, and DLinemen, even if we only keep him for one more year..... just to be a back-up..... that probably won't see any playing time because Schaub is the starter.... and he won't miss time like he did last year because we have Gibbs and we'll draft a stud LT with an improve OL........ and he is not fragile.
 
J-Russ said:
Great idea!

Keep him another year, then his value will skyrocket! What, he'll be like 31, and have much less playing time then he did this year, not to mention he'll be a FA.

And forget about getting a 3rd now!

I mean Sage is so much more valueble then a 3rd round pick in a draft full of talented CB, T, RB, and DLinemen, even if we only keep him for one more year..... just to be a back-up..... that probably won't see any playing time because Schaub is the starter.... and he won't miss time like he did last year because we have Gibbs and we'll draft a stud LT with an improve OL........ and he is not fragile.
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Sage is under contract for two years. 31 is not old for a QB with minimal miles and damage. You have no idea of how much playing time he will get this year.
 
J-Russ said:
Great idea!

Keep him another year, then his value will skyrocket! What, he'll be like 31, and have much less playing time then he did this year, not to mention he'll be a FA.
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The year before A.J. Feeley was traded to the Miami Dolphins for a second round pick, he didn't throw a pass - he was traded based on significant time as a starter (due to injury) the previous year.

When Schaub was traded for two 2nd round picks and a swap of #1's, he had two starts in his career, and neither of them were in the immediately preceding year.

I honestly believe the only thing that can do significant damage to Sage's trade value is playing poorly for a significant amount of time.
 
Lucky said:
StarTribune.com is now reporting that the Vikings are close to signing vet QB Gus Frerotte, which would table the Sage Rosenfels trade discussions.
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as much as i would want to cash in on sage's value right now, if they sign frerotte then that would make me happy to know we have a solid backup for at least one more year. who knows, sage could be the starter going into 2010 if fragile matt cant stay healthy. whatever the case, makes for good speculation.

honestly, i think its a win-win situation whatever way it goes.
 
sage's value will be proven when schaub goes down, which will prove that the schaub trade sucked, but if sage sucks then everything sucks, here's to hope that the injury bug doesn't bite us again next year, i'm all for striking while the iron is hot
 
i think a lot of people forget that having sage around will only increase schaub's abilities if he stays healthy... competition is a good thing.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
sage's value will be proven when schaub goes down, which will prove that the schaub trade sucked, but if sage sucks then everything sucks, here's to hope that the injury bug doesn't bite us again next year, i'm all for striking while the iron is hot
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That's alot of sucking...
 
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