michaelm
vox nihili
The war on drugs isn't effecting you one bit, is it???
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What is Sage's value?--Sage Frustrated
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
The war on drugs isn't effecting you one bit, is it???
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
lol a hundred times
You guys are premature. I believe Rosenfels has two years (this year and next) on his current contract. I say we keep him this year and groom his replacement (Shane Boyd or whoever) on the practice squad. Then, when Sage is in his last contract year, that's when we trade him.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Me and Towelie from the other boards think you're the ****.
drewmar74
disgruntled
No man that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't know what schaub is. But I've seen enough of Sage to convince me he's not a long term solution at QB, and the numbers show that you really need your starter to play if you want the best chance of winning. I'm not convinced however that Schaub can't be that guy. If this was a case of a team that had only a hole or two to fill.. I would say keep Sage. But this team has several holes to fill among their starters. I say fix those holes first unless you think you might have a starter who could get you to the playoffs and beyond in Sage.
Mike
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Mike,
Here's a 7th name for you: Frank Reich! He was fairly important to the Buffalo Bills superbowl run... and also to the history of the Houston Oilers.
By the way, Sage performed a similar feat against Tennessee last year.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Two big differences
1) The Texans lost
2) Reich didn't put his team in the hole by throwing 4 INTs. Reich was 21-24, 4 TDs and 1 INT.
Are you guys remembering why were behind to start?
I'm not taking away from Sage in general but people need to stop using that game as an example.
Giant Tiger
Veteran
GP
Go Texans!
Good post. I agree with it. We have two backups trying to solidify a starting position. Sage has just been at it longer.
Two second rounders is now looking to be a pretty steep price we paid for Schaub. I wish we could have packaged a player/cash/etc. and ONE second round pick when we made that deal.
I have to come to GP's defense here. I agree that we have 2 BACKUP QB's and everyone who insists that Schaub is the starter because ..... why? ..... some anaylst somewhere says he has potential? ........
I also don't see Rich Gannon, Matt Hasselbeck or Derek Anderson, or even Tavarius Jackson in Matt Schaub.
The point GP and I are making is that there should be open and fair competition for the QB spot because neither has stepped up and earned it. Schaub was annointed the starter and looked good at times and not so good at times. Sage came in and performed well in Schaub's absence but, also had some rough times.
NEITHER HAS EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE ORDAINED THE STARTER FOR THIS TEAM OR ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE AND THEREFORE THEY SHOULD HAVE TO COMPETE FOR THE POSITION.
That's all .... it's simple.
:music:
Please stop acting like there is no difference between a career, journeyman back-up and a young back-up who has potential to be a starter.
QUOTE]
They are BOTH career backups and there's not THAT much difference in their age .... as far as QB's go.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Schaub earned the job when he worked his ass off in the offseason. That's the thing you look for in a QB. Carr never lifted a finger until he had to in mini-camp.
Brando
Hall of Fame
Neither do I, Schaub would be the starter over Jackson, easily.
The whole debate if Schaub is a starter is yours and GP's opinion. Neither side is going to change any minds here. I think we need to agree to disagree and move on.
Schaub didn't EARN it, he was ANNOINTED the starter on the day of the trade by Kubes. But yes, you are right, Schaub does have a good work ethic.
That, to me, is the saddest part of this thread.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Schaub didn't EARN it, he was ANNOINTED the starter on the day of the trade by Kubes. But yes, you are right, Schaub does have a good work ethic.
Because they run the team, know QBs and know Sage is a career backup. If you trust the staff and Kubes, a guy who worked with top QBs all his life..and he says Schaub is the guy...then Schaub is the guy right now.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Sounds more credible to me than some guy on a message board!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'd say credibility left the building with this sentence.
Rich Gannon LOL. Schaub completed 66.4 % his first year as a starter (and not by playing Carr short plays only)--something Gannon didn't do until his 14th season. He did it at 7.8 ypa--something Gannon didn't do until his, ooops, never in his 16 seasons. Straight out of the box he had a QB rating of 87.2, something Gannon did not achieve until his 8th season and did not repeat until his 12th.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Our QBs are almost the same player . Tall guys with average arms , above average smarts , and not much in the running department .
The thing that seperates them is a contract and two 2nd rd. picks ... Schaub is also a couple of years younger .
I think in a perfect season ( no injuries ) last year Schaub could have led us to 10-6 . I think you no what you get in Sage ( better than average QB ) while the jury is still out on Schaub .
The thing that seperates them is a contract and two 2nd rd. picks ... Schaub is also a couple of years younger .
I think in a perfect season ( no injuries ) last year Schaub could have led us to 10-6 . I think you no what you get in Sage ( better than average QB ) while the jury is still out on Schaub .
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Was'nt this guy a diehard Carr supporter ? If that's true then I'm not reading anymore .
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Actually it is not because you say it or I say it or that some analyst says itt, hell it is not even because some stupid news guy says it. he is the starter because the freakin head coach of the team says it. what a novel concept in listening to the head coach of the freakin team, some might call it thinking outside the box but it seems to work for me.
Maybe you need to tell Kubiak that neither has earned the right to start because the last time I checked he is paid to make this decision and neither you or GP or David Carr can do a damn thing about it.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
QB is one of a few positions that we really don't have to worry about . If Schaub played like or made Brady or Manning money then we would have Jim Sorgi but for now we have Sage .
It's really quite simple. Keep them both. The teams that succeed are the teams that have 2 QBs that they can trust in game situations. Plain and simple the Pats & Giants made it to the Super Bowl because both of their QBs stayed healthy. If Eli or Brady were hurt they were done. Both of their backups suck! We are in a good position. They should leave it as is. Getting a 3rd round pick that may or may not pan out is not an option.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
The teams that succeed are the teams that have 2 QB's - except this years SB teams? I'm in 100% agreement with your first sentence. After that, you kind of appear to have driven off a cliff.
this damn thread already?Man, I hope you folks don't vote the same way you give Kubes and Smith carte blanche on everything they do. These boards are for us to express our opinions and ideas and, if they are sometimes contrary to the coach and GM, that should be okay.
After last season, I'm more optomistic about what the coach and GM have done but, I refuse to give them a carte blanche stamp of approval just because "they say so".
After last season, I'm more optomistic about what the coach and GM have done but, I refuse to give them a carte blanche stamp of approval just because "they say so".
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Man, I hope you folks don't vote the same way you give Kubes and Smith carte blanche on everything they do. These boards are for us to express our opinions and ideas and, if they are sometimes contrary to the coach and GM, that should be okay.
After last season, I'm more optomistic about what the coach and GM have done but, I refuse to give them a carte blanche stamp of approval just because "they say so".
Last year the team was desperate for a QB who would come in take the bull by the horns and at the same time give the fans some hope .
Sage and a rookie QB would'nt have changed our loser culture as much as Schaub and Sage did . From that standpoint alone Schaub has been a success .
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
GP, Yes and this isn't his first Sage go around.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Man, I hope you folks don't vote the same way you give Kubes and Smith carte blanche on everything they do. These boards are for us to express our opinions and ideas and, if they are sometimes contrary to the coach and GM, that should be okay.
After last season, I'm more optomistic about what the coach and GM have done but, I refuse to give them a carte blanche stamp of approval just because "they say so".
Well we are fans with opinions. They are guys with years of experience evaluating talent and who sit at practices and the full off-season seeing things we don't see. Obviously from past regimes you don't give people carte blanche but so far there is nothing to say that their decisions have not only been solid but pretty good. Considering Kubes work with QBs, I'll let him tell me what he thinks compared to you and GP. Plus the numbers, age. etc bear out that Schaub has the larger upside.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Exactly.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
We don't have two backups. We have one starter. Matt Schaub. One Backup. Sage Rosenfels.
How come neither of you two have even stopped for moment to consider his stints in DC and Miami? Where he was a starter.
Let's think about it this way guys. In Free Agency when you go target a guy you feel is a viable long or short term solution. Do you say well it's pending on you winning the spot in TC through competition. No you've hand selected the guy because you feel head and shoulders above he's better then what you have.
We paid two second rounders; Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith have invested quite a bit in his future. No one here is saying he's untouchable but based on both QB's performances I saw a higher ceiling in Schaub and one QB ,Sage, who has reached his ceiling already. IMO that's the biggest difference.
Be ready to be disapointed when Sage can't beat Schaub out in TC. You two should consider careers in sports Journalism cause right now you two are pretty good at manufacturing controversy.
What I was trying to say is that 2 QBs are valuable. If the Giants or Pats had the same kind of luck with their starter that the Texans had (i.e. Scaub - the starter - going down in the middle of the season), they would not have ended up in the Super Bowl. Injuries are a big part of this game, and you can't count on making it through the season as a QB without missing some games for injuries. The Pats and Giants were very fortunate (and lucky). Without a valuable backup, you are playing Russian Roulette.
I see your point but if a team is going to get into the playoffs, they almost always have to do that with healthy starting QB for the entire season. Look at the playoff teams this season: Giants, Colts, Patriots, Cowboys, Jags, Chargers, Redskins, Steelers, Seahawks, Titans, Bucs
Of those how many relied on a strong backup during the course of the season? Skins, Titans, Jags
We're a team on the rise but there are still some huge holes, something that no one can deny. I really think that over the course of a season, Rosenfels would not be able to get us into the playoffs. Obviously Schaub as he played last year wouldn't either but I think he has that potential. You've got to gamble here because we could snag a starter with a 2-3 round pick and hope to god that Schaub doesn't get injured.
Actually, I wouldn't be disappointed at all, if there really is a competition and he wins it, then he is the best man for the job.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Rosenfels for Chester Taylor. Git'R Done.
C
Ckw
Guest
I second this. I would definitely make this deal.
WesmanTexanfan
SeNior Smack
How did this thread make it 20 pages, geeez, and so quickly....
GP
Go Texans!
Because, for whatever reason, he is doing fairly well in THIS system on THIS team. Look, I don't think Sage goes to the Vikings (or any other team, for that matter) and does as well as he does here. OK? He's settled into Kubiak's system well, has somehow been able to make this offense feel confident (in spite of the questionable playcalling) and yet the guy is just a stinkin' dirt bag backup to you guys. Sage has feelings, too. LOL.
Sage (to me) has earned the right to compete for the job.
Schaub has flaws that are going to continue to get him hammered. I don't wish it upon him, but it doesn't look promising that Schaub gets much further down the road here...and is still standing.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If the Giants Pats Colts or just about any team in that class loses their QB for significant time. They are done. They don't "count on being lucky" they have good O lines, protect the QB. That's what I don't understand. If the offensive identity of this team is going to be built around the passing game then a Sage isn't going to get it done. Yeah he's going to keep you from getting embarassed in a game but at the end of the day, that's not what this team is trying to do. Go get a worthy starter and play like there is no other option at QB. When a guy takes a cheapshot at your QB like the Chargers did... you hit em back.
I hope this team is headed for greatness. I hope they are headed for a place where their backup QB can't do it. That's why I'm so ready to pull the trigger on the deal. If Schaub is the real deal... then Sage won't cut it. If he's not then we're going to need the pick to build with anyways. The only thing I know is that Sage isn't good enough to start for this team. If this team is good enough to go anywhere, sage won't take us there if he has to play extended time. The value of what a 2nd or 3rd round pick... especially in this OL and RB rich draft is to me more than that of a backup QB for 1 year.
Tell me this. Do you think that Sage could fill in for the Pats, Giants, Colts, or any team with serous playoff asperations? Just because he was good enough to beat a few bad teams doesn't mean he is worth more than a starting OL or RB. Especially since you can assume that next year some team will take a flyer on him and overpay him to leave.
Mike
GP
I hate it that DC didn,t work out here, but don't hold it against Kubes. He realized DC stunk & took step to rectify this mistake.
I don't understand why you hold Kubes selection of MS in such low regaurd.
Is it because Kubes pulled the plug on DC?
Kubes is a better evaluator of Qb's than you.
Is that why you have such disdain for MS? Give the guy a chance he did a good job in his 1st year as a starter. Yea he got injured but DC missed games behind this O-line & I bet you wouldn't call him injury prone.
I hate it that DC didn,t work out here, but don't hold it against Kubes. He realized DC stunk & took step to rectify this mistake.
I don't understand why you hold Kubes selection of MS in such low regaurd.
Is it because Kubes pulled the plug on DC?
Kubes is a better evaluator of Qb's than you.
Is that why you have such disdain for MS? Give the guy a chance he did a good job in his 1st year as a starter. Yea he got injured but DC missed games behind this O-line & I bet you wouldn't call him injury prone.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wolf
100% Texan
i'd trade the guy.. this team drafted so poorly the first few years that we still have holes to fill and I am willing to take a chance, I know there is no guarantees that whoever we draft will pan out (just happens), but there is no guarantee that Sage will even see the field (if shaub stays heathy) ...we need help talentwise on this team
if we can get a 2nd rounder for Sage, so be it.. I haven't looked at the 3rd round on where we'd sit with that.. so not sure
. as AJ on another thread said
And maybe it is my
of Kubiak and his ability to teach QB's.. I feel if he can get Sage to play good here, there has to be another QB we can bring in(except one) and make him as serviceable as Sage.
if we can get a 2nd rounder for Sage, so be it.. I haven't looked at the 3rd round on where we'd sit with that.. so not sure
. as AJ on another thread said
And maybe it is my
of Kubiak and his ability to teach QB's.. I feel if he can get Sage to play good here, there has to be another QB we can bring in(except one) and make him as serviceable as Sage.
You can substitute Schuab's name for Sage's in any part of your argument. IMHO, neither has shown to be any better than the other.
But I'm with you, Sage is the only person on our team, that might get us a second(that we could stand to lose anyway). I agree that a team should have a capable back-up, but he's the back-up.
Kubiak did a good job finding Sage, I trust he can find us another quality back-up. Getting a second for Sage is just good business.....
Heck, I'll take Minnesota's two thirds. Or a third this year, and next years second.
TK_Gamer
Veteran
I have never really talked about Sage much, but I guess if I had to sum him up I would say he is an almost starter. He is a little more than a backup, but not a starter. He has decent skills but his accuracy is inconsistent, because of this, he throws more interceptions than he should. He also throws TD's though. He is calm under pressure and doesnt just throw the ball out there. He's just a guy that can't quite get over the hump to become a starter. I doubt he ever will at this point. The problem is, replacing him is a big gamble. We have just as much chance of getting someone worse as we do getting someone better. Basicly he is what he is, but he is quantifiable. I think that makes him more valuable than most of the run of the mill backups out there in the system. So we can trade him away for picks, but I dont like our chances of replacing him any time soon.