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What if?

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I know it's crazy, but what if the Texans have had a Machiavellian plan all along?

Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, who once again was bypassed for a head-coaching job during this hiring cycle, will become a free agent after Super Bowl LV on Sunday, sources told ESPN.
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What if the plan all along has been to hire EB, make Culley the OC ans appease Watson? Makes more sense than hiring Culley as HC and retaining Kelley as OC

:kitten:
 

KA4Texan

I Hide My Own Easter Eggs
Contributor's Club
There is a reason EB failed his last 10 interviews. Just because you're a coordinator doesn't make you qualified to be a HC. The number of coordinators who became a HC and were fired in less than 5 years is massive.
They should have been hired by the Texans. We keep failures for at least 6 years. :kitten:

I doubt EB leaves KC, especially if it is a W tonight. For a HC position I could, but not to move laterally.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
There is a reason EB failed his last 10 interviews. Just because you're a coordinator doesn't make you qualified to be a HC. The number of coordinators who became a HC and were fired in less than 5 years is massive.
There only a few routes to being a HC..

-Promoted from being a coordinator
-Re-tread HC
-College-to-Pro HC
-Promoted from being a position coach

Which of those are you advocating that much more than Coordinator-to-HC?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I know it's crazy, but what if the Texans have had a Machiavellian plan all along?



link

What if the plan all along has been to hire EB, make Culley the OC ans appease Watson? Makes more sense than hiring Culley as HC and retaining Kelley as OC

:kitten:
What’s that mean? A FA? KC letting him go?

or just stating the obvious that he’s available.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Cool, which would you prefer?
I was only making a point of a coordinator (coach) doesn't necessarily make a good head coach (manager). My preference is a winner, someone who knows how to win more games than his competition. In this hiring cycle that choice for me is Luke Fickel.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I was only making a point of a coordinator (coach) doesn't necessarily make a good head coach (manager). My preference is a winner, someone who knows how to win more games than his competition. In this hiring cycle that choice for me is Luke Fickel.
Pretty sure none of them necessarily make a good HC..

For instance the number of failed college-to-pro HC's..
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Pretty sure none of them necessarily make a good HC..

For instance the number of failed college-to-pro HC's..
When you dig a little deeper you will find some of those were more Owner failures than HC failures (something Texans fans are getting use to). Coordinator failures dwarf college failures.

In this hiring cycle I'm guessing that ONLY Robert Saleh will still be a head coach in 5 years.

If you give me a choice between a head coach with an .830 winning % over the last 3 years and coordinator with NO head coaching experience, I'm going to take the .830 ALL DAY LONG.
 
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Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
When you dig a little deeper you will find some of those were more Owner failures than HC failures (something Texans fans are getting use to). Coordinator failures dwarf college failures.
You don't think plenty of bad owners have failed qualified coordinators?

And of course coordinator hires dwarf college hires..
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
I know it's crazy, but what if the Texans have had a Machiavellian plan all along?



link

What if the plan all along has been to hire EB, make Culley the OC ans appease Watson? Makes more sense than hiring Culley as HC and retaining Kelley as OC

:kitten:
I would LOL, but highly unlikely. They wouldn't have rushed Culley out as HC with his interview, at least you wouldn't think. How do you explain that to the world?
 
Well since the EB thread is locked I have to post it here. Think last night showed who is really calling the plays, its no coincidence that while Andy Reid is dealing with whats going on with his son the KC play calling was horrible. So if the Texans did have this big, complex plan about hiring EB I hope they are also Machiavellian enough to kill a plan when it is shown to be horrible. Also think we have now seen why EB keeps getting passed up.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well since the EB thread is locked I have to post it here. Think last night showed who is really calling the plays, its no coincidence that while Andy Reid is dealing with whats going on with his son the KC play calling was horrible. So if the Texans did have this big, complex plan about hiring EB I hope they are also Machiavellian enough to kill a plan when it is shown to be horrible. Also think we have now seen why EB keeps getting passed up.
Looked alot like the Colorado offense.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Well since the EB thread is locked I have to post it here. Think last night showed who is really calling the plays, its no coincidence that while Andy Reid is dealing with whats going on with his son the KC play calling was horrible. So if the Texans did have this big, complex plan about hiring EB I hope they are also Machiavellian enough to kill a plan when it is shown to be horrible. Also think we have now seen why EB keeps getting passed up.
I seriously doubt that's the case. Teams get beat all the time. OCs & DCs go on to be head coaches regardless. Mike Vrabel coached our pitiful defense & was hired by a team that saw it twice a season.

I think when they say EB doesn't interview well, I think it's about his answers to leadership questions. Giving examples when he's overcome diversity. Coaching things that goes beyond the Xs & Os. I'm speculating, but I would imagine there were a bunch of questions about motivating, developing, coordinating coaches as well as players & all his answers may be at the player level. Or a "they do it because I'll tell them forcefully."
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I seriously doubt that's the case. Teams get beat all the time. OCs & DCs go on to be head coaches regardless. Mike Vrabel coached our pitiful defense & was hired by a team that saw it twice a season.

I think when they say EB doesn't interview well, I think it's about his answers to leadership questions. Giving examples when he's overcome diversity. Coaching things that goes beyond the Xs & Os. I'm speculating, but I would imagine there were a bunch of questions about motivating, developing, coordinating coaches as well as players & all his answers may be at the player level. Or a "they do it because I'll tell them forcefully."
Did you mean overcoming adversity as opposed to diversity? I do, however, think that diversity, for the sake of diversity, is a condition that necessitates being overcome.
As to the original post, I think what we saw in the SB was a function of a very good Tampa defense overwhelming two backup OTs. Brady got the MVP but the Tampa defense won the game.
IMO EB hasn't been hired as a HC because he simply hasn't been the best choice for teams doing the hiring. It's a known fact that Reid has been the driving force behind KC and Mahomes' exceptional career arc in the NFL. EB is, at most, a figurehead and a secretary for the offensive side of the ball. Unless/until Reid publicly announces that EB is fully in control of and responsible for all offensive game planning and play calling that will continue to be the perception of EB.
 
I seriously doubt that's the case. Teams get beat all the time. OCs & DCs go on to be head coaches regardless. Mike Vrabel coached our pitiful defense & was hired by a team that saw it twice a season.

I think when they say EB doesn't interview well, I think it's about his answers to leadership questions. Giving examples when he's overcome diversity. Coaching things that goes beyond the Xs & Os. I'm speculating, but I would imagine there were a bunch of questions about motivating, developing, coordinating coaches as well as players & all his answers may be at the player level. Or a "they do it because I'll tell them forcefully."
You are correct but even when those beaten OCs and DCs go on its because its known that it was their plan, it may not have worked but it was theirs's. With EB its to much a question of is it him or is it Reid and I find it telling that when Reid is off the entire offense playcalling is off.

I do disagree with you on why they say EB doesn't interview, I think its because teams ask him "How would you improve this team?" or "What is your vision for the team?" and I don't think he really has a good answer because so much of KC is Reid. To your point about things beyond coaching it seems to me there are to many teams that have rejected him for that to be the case. Yeah team X may not like that "I'm the HC and you do what I say" attitude but team Y might. There has been such a broad range of coaches hired, including this year, that for it to just be a personality clash seems unrealistic. However, a HC that has no real path to improving a team or how to build a team is something that all the teams hiring are going to want to steer clear of.
 

Maverick

Failure is not an option
Did y'all notice there were a few instances where, during timeouts, Mahomes was talking to Reid and not EB? Some say the offense was all EB; didn't seem that way last night.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
It wasn't? "Cool, which would you prefer?"

Clearly I can see that you are NOT a fan of the saying, A good coach, is a good coach, is a good coach.
No, '.830?' was not a question at that point? It's all there in order bro.

And though I've never heard that as an actual common saying I do agree in general with the sentiment. That's why I suppose we agree that whether it's a coordinator or a re-tread or a college coach, while they can all fall flat, as long as they're a good coach they have a legit chance.

Glad we got to the bottom of that.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
When you dig a little deeper you will find some of those were more Owner failures than HC failures (something Texans fans are getting use to). Coordinator failures dwarf college failures.

In this hiring cycle I'm guessing that ONLY Robert Saleh will still be a head coach in 5 years.

If you give me a choice between a head coach with an .830 winning % over the last 3 years and coordinator with NO head coaching experience, I'm going to take the .830 ALL DAY LONG.
I wouldn't have complained if the Texans had hired Fickell, just as I haven't complained about the Texans hiring Culley. Why do you feel the need to only use the last 3 years of Fickell's coaching career at Cincinnati? Is a .71% winning percentage not eye-popping enough for you?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I wouldn't have complained if the Texans had hired Fickell, just as I haven't complained about the Texans hiring Culley. Why do you feel the need to only use the last 3 years of Fickell's coaching career at Cincinnati? Is a .71% winning percentage not eye-popping enough for you?
I'll take it.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
IMO, the biggest factor EB has yet to have an HC job is they keep making it to super bowls. Put yourself in a tough decision like, candidate X and EB are our top two choices. We can hire X now and get him for sure. OR we can wait for EB to become available, hope he chooses us, and risk not getting either EB or X. I can understand people taking the safe route and getting a candidate they're happy with, rather than risking getting neither.

But in the Texans case, they had no HC competition. Culley was their guy (for some reason). Unless EB had no desire to do a rebuild.
 
IMO, the biggest factor EB has yet to have an HC job is they keep making it to super bowls. Put yourself in a tough decision like, candidate X and EB are our top two choices. We can hire X now and get him for sure. OR we can wait for EB to become available, hope he chooses us, and risk not getting either EB or X. I can understand people taking the safe route and getting a candidate they're happy with, rather than risking getting neither.

But in the Texans case, they had no HC competition. Culley was their guy (for some reason). Unless EB had no desire to do a rebuild.
Not buying it, KC has only been to the SB last two years and EB hasn’t been able to get a HC job last 3. Plus usually going to multiple SBs makes a team want to hire a OC r DC to be their HC more not less.

Plus if that was the case why all this talk of he doesn’t interview well. No I think it’s people ask him what his plan is and how he would improve the team and he gives them a deer in the headlights look or talks a lot but says nothing. We’re not talking about 1 or 2 teams here we are talking about every team looking to hire a HC over the last three years.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Not buying it, KC has only been to the SB last two years and EB hasn’t been able to get a HC job last 3. Plus usually going to multiple SBs makes a team want to hire a OC r DC to be their HC more not less.

Plus if that was the case why all this talk of he doesn’t interview well. No I think it’s people ask him what his plan is and how he would improve the team and he gives them a deer in the headlights look or talks a lot but says nothing. We’re not talking about 1 or 2 teams here we are talking about every team looking to hire a HC over the last three years.
Not saying he doesn't have any faults, just that KC going to the SB two years in a row has probably hurt his chances.

My bet would be if KC for some strange reason missed playoffs this season, but not because of the offense, EB would have an HC gig right now. Or at least he would have received an offer.

Is he good enough for a team to take a risk and wait on him? Probably not.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
Not saying he doesn't have any faults, just that KC going to the SB two years in a row has probably hurt his chances.

My bet would be if KC for some strange reason missed playoffs this season, but not because of the offense, EB would have an HC gig right now. Or at least he would have received an offer.

Is he good enough for a team to take a risk and wait on him? Probably not.

Not sure what demands eb has on personnel decisions and that may be a factor. Him making it to the sb 2 years in a row hasn't helped.

Still, one has to wonder why a white coach like Kingsbury gets a shot and he doesn't.
 


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